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UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch

 
New Eve
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02/25/2010 02:22 PM
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UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
UPDATE: As of the afternoon of February 26, sadly, the language about punishments for intelligence agents who break the rules has been stricken from the amendment:



Yesterday (Thursday, Feb. 25, 1:15 pm CST) on CSPAN a new American intelligence bill was being debated. Apparently it contains language that instructs American intelligence officers to respect the rights of those captured and accused of terrorist activity, including prohibiting the intelligence agents from making statements which blaspheme the terrorists' religion and prohibiting the agents from isolating these individuals in their incarceration, and mandating the reading of Miranda rights for those accused terrorists who will be tried in American courts.

Understandably this bill is an attempt to prevent the kind of tortuous abuses that were perpetrated at Abu Graib. I have not read the bill and so I do not know what else it contains. At the moment the Congressmen are discussing only what I have stated above.

Many Congressmen are arguing that this bill would only weaken our intelligence community because it will mean that terrorists will be treated better than normal Americans accused of crimes Stateside.

Is this true, or would respecting terrorists' humanity deliver the ultimate, winning, moral blow: that two wrongs don't make a right. Will America not gain a wonderful moral victory by treating the accused terrorists with justice, humanity, and decency?

Will this not strike the karmic blow to terrorism--to incarcerate the people accused but to treat them decently?

Last Edited by New Eve on 02/26/2010 01:43 PM
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
Zerocyber

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02/25/2010 02:29 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
What do you mean by, "Religionists"?
New Eve  (OP)

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02/25/2010 02:30 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
I was just addressing the debate to those who affiliate with a religion.

But I did not mean to exclude those who do not.
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:30 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
Is this true, or would respecting terrorists' humanity deliver the ultimate, winning, moral blow: that two wrongs don't make a right. Will American not gain a wonderful moral victory by treating the accused terrorists with justice, humanity, and decency?

Will this not strike the karmic blow to terrorism--to incarcerate the people accused but to treat them decently?
 Quoting: New Eve
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:31 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
Is this true, or would respecting terrorists' humanity deliver the ultimate, winning, moral blow: that two wrongs don't make a right. Will American not gain a wonderful moral victory by treating the accused terrorists with justice, humanity, and decency?

Will this not strike the karmic blow to terrorism--to incarcerate the people accused but to treat them decently?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 898725


No one here understands this. They are exactly like the terrorists.
New Eve  (OP)

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02/25/2010 02:38 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
Sylvestre Reyes, Congressman from Texas, just spoke and stated that he is a military veteran AND a 26-year veteran of federal law enforcement, and that he supports the bill because it tells the intelligence agents to "follow the law."

In a few minutes there will be a vote.
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
Zerocyber

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02/25/2010 02:39 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
I was just addressing the debate to those who affiliate with a religion.

But I did not mean to exclude those who do not.
 Quoting: New Eve


Well, I believe in God, but I don't give 2 craps about organizations proclaiming to be behind a religion (like the Catholic Church, among others) and I just have to say this long winded statement:

First, figure out if they are Terrorists (have caused or are trying to cause terror, perferable on civilians, for a political or religious reason).

After that, interrogate them for as long as nessecary. Then, if they talk, continue to milk them for info. If they do not, shoot them in the head.

Terrorists are terrorists, and treating them with respect is like giving in. If we are to give them rights, we might as well let them kill, oh say, 3000 people before we do something.

Terrorists are not a part of any Government, and therefore, no country (though they can be supported by many) making them enemy combatants to all. So, shoot them.

Infact, I would allow waterboarding, as it is the most pathetic, weak, yet not physically devastating, torture of them all.

And for those whom are reading this for my religious views, I believe the Bible is a guide, not a rulebook.
New Eve  (OP)

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02/25/2010 02:40 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
I will go on record and say that I think this is a very good idea. Again, I should read the bill before I give my final support. However, I think that more good will be done by treating the accused fairly and decently. We will thus avoid throwing oil onto the fire.

And we will ultimately triumph: it may take awhile but the real battle, if you really think about it, is for the HEARTS AND MINDS of OUR ENEMIES.

We can show them, when they are captured, that we are not the animals their trainers told them we were.

Last Edited by New Eve on 02/25/2010 03:02 PM
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:40 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
You're best bet is to try and ignore what is going on in D.C.

The debt load is quickly accelerating, they are going to be unable to continue financing soon. They are working very hard at destroying the dollar. Really you're best bet is to get local, get to know your neighbors, strengthen your community and learn about establishing common law courts allowed by the 7th Amendment to the Constitution. Here is a series of videos to get you started on how to empower your communities and prepare for a collapse of the national government. Really it is your duty to you, your family and your community to prepare for the collapse of our national government to keep the principles of the constitution alive.

There are 10 parts, 10 minutes a piece and will take you about 90 minutes to watch all 10 videos.

[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:41 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
I will go on record and say that I think this is a very good idea. Again, I should read the bill before I give my final support. However, I think that more good will be done by treating the accused fairly and decently. We will thus avoid throwing oil onto the fire.

And we will ultimately triumph.
 Quoting: New Eve


No we should be over there cutting heads off and nuking cities because when a dirty dog bites America she gets on all fours, starts barking, running in circles and bites the dog back. Thats my America.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:41 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
I will go on record and say that I think this is a very good idea. Again, I should read the bill before I give my final support. However, I think that more good will be done by treating the accused fairly and decently. We will thus avoid throwing oil onto the fire.

And we will ultimately triumph.


No we should be over there cutting heads off and nuking cities because when a dirty dog bites America she gets on all fours, starts barking, running in circles and bites the dog back. Thats my America.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 898725


Also no trials. Immediate execution.
New Eve  (OP)

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02/25/2010 02:43 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
I was just addressing the debate to those who affiliate with a religion.

But I did not mean to exclude those who do not.


Well, I believe in God, but I don't give 2 craps about organizations proclaiming to be behind a religion (like the Catholic Church, among others) and I just have to say this long winded statement:

First, figure out if they are Terrorists (have caused or are trying to cause terror, perferable on civilians, for a political or religious reason).

After that, interrogate them for as long as nessecary. Then, if they talk, continue to milk them for info. If they do not, shoot them in the head.

Terrorists are terrorists, and treating them with respect is like giving in. If we are to give them rights, we might as well let them kill, oh say, 3000 people before we do something.

Terrorists are not a part of any Government, and therefore, no country (though they can be supported by many) making them enemy combatants to all. So, shoot them.

Infact, I would allow waterboarding, as it is the most pathetic, weak, yet not physically devastating, torture of them all.

And for those whom are reading this for my religious views, I believe the Bible is a guide, not a rulebook.
 Quoting: Zerocyber


Well, thank you, cyber, for your response.

The problem is that under our rules (laws) there must be a trial before we can decide if they are terrorists or not. That is our general principle.

Of course, it may be that the normal rule of law is suspended during a war.

However if we just shoot them because of something we believe about them, before it has been proven in a trial that they are guilty, we may be throwing oil on this fire, i.e., creating six more terrorists who hear about this for every one we execute.

Last Edited by New Eve on 02/25/2010 02:45 PM
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:50 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
I will go on record and say that I think this is a very good idea. Again, I should read the bill before I give my final support. However, I think that more good will be done by treating the accused fairly and decently. We will thus avoid throwing oil onto the fire.

And we will ultimately triumph.


No we should be over there cutting heads off and nuking cities because when a dirty dog bites America she gets on all fours, starts barking, running in circles and bites the dog back. Thats my America.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 898725


So why didn't we do that when the rabid dogs tried to sink the USS Liberty?
New Eve  (OP)

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02/25/2010 02:58 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
This boils down to whether you actually believe in the moral maxim to treat others as we treat ourselves.

I would like to hear from those who are always espousing their religion on this board. Their silence is rather disturbing.
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 03:01 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
This boils down to whether you actually believe in the moral maxim to treat others as we treat ourselves.

I would like to hear from those who are always espousing their religion on this board. Their silence is rather disturbing.
 Quoting: New Eve


I already did and you ignored me. But I am not religious, I have faith.
New Eve  (OP)

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02/25/2010 03:03 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
I'm sorry, AC, I did not mean to ignore you. Which argument was yours?
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
New Eve  (OP)

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02/25/2010 03:04 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
Oh, okay, I looked at your AC number and now I see.

Well, it is interesting what you are saying, I do agree that one should be active locally, but I do not think we should abandon our federal government. It has been molded over these past over 200 years by the blood of many patriots.
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
New Eve  (OP)

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02/25/2010 03:27 PM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
The House has voted and approved the amendment which requires intelligence agents, under pain of prosecution, to adhere to the standards including prohibition of isolation incarceration and prohibition of blaspheming detainees' religion, and requirement to extend Miranda rights to those detainees who will be tried in American courts.
Jesus said "I am this Perfect Day and in me lives the Light that does not fail.............." -- Gospel of Thomas
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2010 01:36 AM
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Re: UPDATE: How America Has Decided to Create Six More Terrorists For Every One We Catch
interesting





GLP