*BREAKING: GREECE DEFAULT WATCH *

Come on, who are you kidding? The reason North African countries provide for cheaper holidays than Greece or Spain is because the citizens of the latter countries are ready to accept a much lower standard of living. Being inside/outside the euro is not an important part of the equation.

If you want to compete with North African countries, then you had better be ready for:

1) Drastically lower wages (Minimum annual wage is $3,453 per year, in Greece it is 11,454. These figures take into account purchasing power parity).
2) Severe cuts in social coverage.
3) Big restrictions on workers' rights.

In short, these countries are cheaper than Greece because working conditions are far worse, not because they are outside the euro or whatever.

Now who was that guy in 1930 I think who said "Don't part with your illusions because they will cease to exist"?

China.

That would be perfect for a new paradigm... you dont have to be physically desperate, but rather intellectually, you know, the ego can be quite a bitch when it realises that others think of it as "stupid" .
But i agree, greeks became spoiled in the last few years (part of the plan), so now, no one wants to lose their shinies they "worked so hard for"(which is stupid and predictable), but if they want change, they HAVE to

Well, becaue the international banks and the military industrial-complex, need to give countries enemies and conflicts to be able to sell their technology, its all made up anyway, the Greek/Turkish "conflict" as well as the "greek/macedonian "conflict", just to make a quick buck on arms sales and live their wet dreams of ruling the world.

In terms of stupid to fall for these tactics Greece ranks veeeeeery high

Businesses exist to make a profit. So it should come as no surprise that they will seek to generate a demand for their goods and services.

Nice one AC....it really so simple....it will happen all over again....they will defend their schemes tooth and nail of course...repression will be rampant....we will live in fear....shit times ahead....I am almost 50 now....I have know for 30 years that this would come....

Het zal eindigen met de wederkomst van Christus en het einde van dit tijdperk.

In all reality the question and answer match perfectly. For a layman that has not educated himself to any level of understanding (you may or may not be included in this group) the answer is the BEST advice possible. For you the answer may seem ridiculous and inane but that would be because you do have some understanding that your question did not suggest.

These are relatively comfortable times for Western workers despite events. The wars in the ME are laying the foundations for the complete annexation of world's energy, by free capital. Resources such as water and the very air we breath will follow, as all of our common resources are commodified, even the very act of selling one's labour. There are indeed extremely trying times ahead, not least for the utter chaos of political thought that reigns today, where Islamic feudalism now purports to represent the revolutionary impulse. In due course however, the sham of false ideology will be laid bare (including all religions) when we have been rendered utterly destitute and alienated from one another.

I would say Balkan peoples are all so stupid to fall for these tactics. Divide et impera on full scale. Greece does not need EU. It does need only a Greek people to really take care of real issues. Not some fancy shmancy bs propaganda puppet brought from US or whatever to decide in behalf of all in Greece. Btw we are not enemies to you. Never were. It is shame for all of us to fall so badly on cheap political fraud. Hope it turns best for you.

Hmmmmm,

That sounds Exactly like the current climate in the USA.

Just waiting for that one little spark to set the whole thing off.

This situation with Greece in particular and Europe generally, is that we are still borrowing to keep the welfare bubble alive.

We have massive youth unemployment in Europe.

When the bubble bursts and the welfare dripfeed is withdrawn, you have a continent of young people who are going to be seriously fuckin pissed at having no hope of ever earning a good living.

All around we see the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

One day soon, maybe this month, this year, next year, it's no longer if, it is when, this whole continent is going to errupt. ( again )

Don't underestimate the capitalist propaganda machine. Be prepared for a long and protracted descent into revolt.

GREEKS FAIL,then germans out like a light.

I'm not sure how much more of this "illusion" they can keep printing without us running out of central banks to by the debts.

*EDIT* Holy crap! By the debt? Get that woman another cuppa coffee! s/by/buy/

Last Edited by Khim on 05/19/2011 07:57 AM

They print as there is ample surplus available in low wage countries. The illusion of nationalism belies the true internationalism of capital which draws from this surplus in order to valorise. The conflicts we see around us are a sham.

I think it's not going to end well for the Netherlands if she keeps having to dole out monies to a union of states that can't function as a whole. Things were *much* better off when each European country not only had to be self-sustaining, but could decide its own financial strategy. The EU is killing Europe - and taking my favorite people with it.

Oh help. I'm only on my first cup of coffee over here in Texas. Please don't use big words for like another hour?

*looks up the meaning of "valorise"*

WOW, there are some great posts here! It is looking, to me anyway, that the US is trying to cause a Greek Default to artificially prop up the dollar. The Dollar rose from 72+ to 75+ on the news that once again Greece could Default - I believe they used DSK as a bargaining tool!It would appear to me the US has to keep up the Charade just a bit longer.

However, there are NO fundamentals for the raise in the Dollar index - we have far more debt than Greece that we cannot even afford the debt service, unemployment numbers are abysmal, and the stock market is a scam! And we havn't even gotten to the cause and effect that the Japanese Quake is going to have on quaterly earnings statements!!!

In my opinion, the US is in far worse shape than Greece or Europe! Just my 2 cents worth.

valorize, valorise (vb) (Economics) (tr) to fix and maintain an artificial price for (a commodity) by governmental action

And considering that Valorisation is a theoretical concept created by Karl Marx - I am not encouraged.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Money, unlike us humans, knows no national boundaries. A dollar struck in the US will be value added by a Chinese worker as it flows into investments in that country (by the variety of means that investors and the well off use to and enhance the value of capital.) So to the extent that the US global reserve currency is printed ad nauseum to flow around the world in pursuit of trade, China, India, Russia, Europe, etc, etc give value to that currency as a means for oiling the wheels of that trade. So for all those waiting for the US dollar to collapse, you will probably die waiting. Capitalism will be with us for a while yet, although the misery for those who are not passively rich will deepen, quite profoundly.

The situation in Greece is brilliantly observed by Larry Elliott in the Guardian (UK)

I can't link due to copyright but a quick google will get you to the article.

The market is buoyed by the prospect of the next round of worker austerity measures, which for those who earn their keep by their sweat of their borw, on here, means falling wages, more inducements to incur debt and of course, deeper entanglement with conmsumerism. An investors wet dream.

Do something about the pickpockets along the metro to the airport and maybe people would consider returning to that shithole, Athens. Stop the constant striking and fucking up people's flights. Then, maybe Greece might be an attractive place to visit. One is rolling the dice going there.

the illusion into collapse takes 500 years this time according to the Egyptian map of prediction, read the decent

Wow!

Great post. Had I finished reading the entire thread before posting, I wouldn't have had to look up the meaning of "valorise".

Great post, AC :D

Don't do it!!!

Gawd. I had no idea why this was so important when my husband was explaining to me how the EU has chipped away at the Netherlands. Don't privatize the utilities!!

hey Kalispera
Greece will never collapse economically
beacuse the world cannot do without your dried figs and kalamata olives, so all you have to do is to increase teh price of teh kalamatas and the mousakas to 1 million drachmas a kilo and voila'the economy will be in surplus once again.
so don't panic mate! you can continue being the lazy men of Europe with your 3 hr work a day and teh 5 hour lunch breaks

People fails to understand that loans are given as exchange of buying something, usually very expensive, overpriced and a complete waste of money...this assure that you'll never be able to repay

They pay politicians into accepting those loans and then use the debt as string to move the puppets

Greece produces nothing...cause this was the design of Elite over it

Even if they wont they cannot become cheaper...cause they import everything... the only solution would be stop buying and go back to poverty and re build an industrial economy for the country

Macedonia... where your money comes from? Germany

Serbia? You cannot make 1 meter without see a bank... Belgrade is astonish... just one bank next the other