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Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) | |
| Batty Koda Offer Upgrade  User ID: 41943842  United States11/05/2014 02:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 02:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) Thank you to those who read this. Id like to hear your thoughts on it as well. It appears to bring legitimacy at least to the fact that the Book of Mormon was not just something Joseph Smith made up on the fly. Love life, and condemn those who would restrict its freedom, for they are the ones who are in prison. |
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| The_Last_In_Line Breshears is Off: Ask Me Why User ID: 58725417 United States11/05/2014 03:02 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) :illcorn: Well, it's pretty easy to accept the BoM as true, as it doesn't deviate a whole lot from the gospel and it's not hard to imagine that Israelites made it to the United States, and if Christ came for the Israelites, it stands to reason he'd need to see all of them. What is a lot harder to accept as true is the Doctrine and Covenants Last Edited by The_Meridian on 11/05/2014 03:15 PM (B)ullshit™ always needs an amplified bullhorn demanding kneeling subservience - or else.- SyncAsFunk The light within me always draws me back to make the dark decision to leave the false counterfeit light. -New Heart |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 04:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 04:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) :illcorn: Quoting: The_Last_In_Line Well, it's pretty easy to accept the BoM as true, as it doesn't deviate a whole lot from the gospel and it's not hard to imagine that Israelites made it to the United States, and if Christ came for the Israelites, it stands to reason he'd need to see all of them. What is a lot harder to accept as true is the Doctrine and Covenants I agree that it is a bit more difficult to accept the validity of D & C. The majority of it is basically how to operate the church and policy's and practices to be put in place. In the same breath you could say well if he was telling the truth about the BOM then why not everything he said and all of his works? Love life, and condemn those who would restrict its freedom, for they are the ones who are in prison. |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 04:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Mickeyblue User ID: 9806228 United States11/05/2014 04:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) For anyone who is a Christin/Religious Scholar this should be an interesting read. Quoting: Batty Koda To summarize: A non Mormon scholar was asked to translate the Book of Mormon into the language of Afrikaans, and while doing so discovered that the original language, that the Book of Mormon was written in was Ancient Egyptian. Which at the time of Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon 1828-1829 was not actually a known language able to be translated fluently into other languages. Thus "proving" that Joseph Smith translated the book of Mormon from ancient Egyptian with some type of "Divine" or unknown to exist help. This story is available at many places online, and is not copywrited. it is called the story of "Die Book Van Mormon" I was searching through my books in storage a few days ago and came across a first edition of the Book of Mormon in Afrikaans. I served a mission in South Africa from 1971 to 1973. It was an interesting and challenging experience. I attended the Stake Conference in Johannesburg on May 14, 1972 when the new translation of the Book of Mormon into Afrikaans (Die Boek van Mormon) was presented. It was an electric moment. People wept. Some had waited all of their lifetimes to read the Book of Mormon in Afrikaans. Many people had learned English for the sole purpose of reading this scripture. The Spirit was strong among us as we rejoiced. Remembering back more than 50 years, I can still remember Professor Felix Mynhardt [not a member of our church] as he spoke of his experience in translating that sacred book. I will retell it as best I can recall. Professor Mynhardt was invited to come to the stand and speak about his experience in translating the Book of Mormon. He recounted how he had been given a gift of languages from God from his youth. He said that he was fluent in many languages, including English, Afrikaans, Hebrew and Egyptian, as well as many others. He was presently employed as a language professor. He said he had been praying that the Lord would give him some task, some divinely important task, that would justify his having this gift of language from God. He said in about 1970 that he had visited with a group of Mormon leaders, who sought to commission him to translate the Book of Mormon from English into Afrikaans. He said that he knew of the Book of Mormon from his religions studies, and his initial reaction was that he did not want to be involved in translating it. However, that evening, as he prayed upon his knees, as was his habit, he said the Spirit of the Lord convicted him. The message was something on the order of, “You asked me for a great, divinely inspired task of translation, I sent it to you in the form of translating the Book of Mormon, and you declined.” Professor Mynhardt said he could not sleep through the night because he knew that translating the Book of Mormon would get him into trouble with his university, which was owned and operated by the Dutch Reformed Church. When morning came he telephoned Elder Clark to inform him that he would begin the translation immediately. He stood at the pulpit and described the experience. He said, “I never begin translating a book at the beginning. Writing style usually changes through a book, and becomes more consistent toward the middle. Accordingly, I opened to a random place in the middle of the Book of Mormon, and began translating.” He said, “I was startled by the obvious fact that the Book of Mormon was not authored in English. He said, “It became immediately apparent that what I was reading was a translation into English from some other language. The sentence structure was wrong for native English. The word choices were wrong, as were many phrases.” He said, “How many times has an Englishman said or written, “And it came to pass?” We all laughed, and knew he was right, of course. He continued, “When I realized this, I knew that I had to find the original language, and translate it back into the original language, or a similar language to the original, and then proceed to translate it into Afrikaans. He listed a half-dozen languages he tried, all of which did not accommodate the strange sentence structure found in the Book of Mormon. He said, “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly into Egyptian, not modern, but ancient Egyptian. I found that some nouns were missing from Egyptian, so I added Hebrew nouns where Egyptian did not provide the word or phrase. I chose Hebrew because both languages existed in the same place anciently.” “I had no idea at that time why the Book of Mormon was once written in Egyptian, but I can tell you without any doubt, that this book was at one point written entirely in Egyptian.” I heard him say this over and over. Then, he said, “Imagine my utter astonishment when I turned to chapter one, verse one and began my actual translation and came to verse two, where Nephi describes that he was writing in the language of the Egyptians, with the learning of the Jews!” He said, “I knew by the second verse, that this was no ordinary book, that it was not the writings of Joseph Smith, but that it was of ancient origin and was in fact scripture. I could have saved myself months of work if I had just begun at the beginning. Nobody but God, working through a prophet of God, in this case Nephi, would have included a statement of the language he was writing in. Consider, how many documents written in English, include the phrase, “we are writing in English!” It is unthinkable and absolute proof of the inspired origins of this book. He paused, then noted, “I am one of the few people in the world that is fluent in ancient Egyptian. I am perhaps the only person fluent in ancient Egyptian who is also fluent in Afrikaans and English. And I know for a fact, that I am the only person alive who could have translated this book first into Egyptian, and then into Afrikaans. If your church ever needs an Egyptian translation of the Book of Mormon, it is sitting in my office as we speak.” We all laughed. Professor Mynhardt spoke of many other things regarding the translation of this book, and then said, “I do not know what Joseph Smith was before he translated this book, and I do not know what he was afterward, but while he translated this book, he was a prophet of God! I know he was a prophet! I testify to you that he was a prophet while he brought forth this book! He could have been nothing else! No person in 1827 could have done what he did. The science did not exist. The knowledge of ancient Egyptian did not exist. The knowledge of these ancient times and ancient peoples did not exist. The Book of Mormon is scripture. I hope you realize this. “I will keep promoting this book as scripture for the remainder of my life – simply because it is scripture, and I know it. I haven’t studied your doctrine or your history since Joseph Smith. The only thing I know about the Mormon religion is that you have authentic, ancient scripture in the Book of Mormon, that your church was begun by a living and true prophet of God, and that all of the world should embrace the Book of Mormon as scripture. It simply can’t be denied.” ——- This was written by John Pontius, (member), about Prof. Mynhardt, not a member, who translated the Book of Mormon into Afrikaans. He was quoting some things that Mynhardt said at the conference in 1972. The words in quotes are Mynhardt’s. All the angels, having been around forever, can speak in all languages, ancient and modern. Check out your angels very carefully. The bad ones, the third that fell from grace haven't gone away. |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 04:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) For anyone who is a Christin/Religious Scholar this should be an interesting read. Quoting: Batty Koda To summarize: A non Mormon scholar was asked to translate the Book of Mormon into the language of Afrikaans, and while doing so discovered that the original language, that the Book of Mormon was written in was Ancient Egyptian. Which at the time of Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon 1828-1829 was not actually a known language able to be translated fluently into other languages. Thus "proving" that Joseph Smith translated the book of Mormon from ancient Egyptian with some type of "Divine" or unknown to exist help. This story is available at many places online, and is not copywrited. it is called the story of "Die Book Van Mormon" I was searching through my books in storage a few days ago and came across a first edition of the Book of Mormon in Afrikaans. I served a mission in South Africa from 1971 to 1973. It was an interesting and challenging experience. I attended the Stake Conference in Johannesburg on May 14, 1972 when the new translation of the Book of Mormon into Afrikaans (Die Boek van Mormon) was presented. It was an electric moment. People wept. Some had waited all of their lifetimes to read the Book of Mormon in Afrikaans. Many people had learned English for the sole purpose of reading this scripture. The Spirit was strong among us as we rejoiced. Remembering back more than 50 years, I can still remember Professor Felix Mynhardt [not a member of our church] as he spoke of his experience in translating that sacred book. I will retell it as best I can recall. Professor Mynhardt was invited to come to the stand and speak about his experience in translating the Book of Mormon. He recounted how he had been given a gift of languages from God from his youth. He said that he was fluent in many languages, including English, Afrikaans, Hebrew and Egyptian, as well as many others. He was presently employed as a language professor. He said he had been praying that the Lord would give him some task, some divinely important task, that would justify his having this gift of language from God. He said in about 1970 that he had visited with a group of Mormon leaders, who sought to commission him to translate the Book of Mormon from English into Afrikaans. He said that he knew of the Book of Mormon from his religions studies, and his initial reaction was that he did not want to be involved in translating it. However, that evening, as he prayed upon his knees, as was his habit, he said the Spirit of the Lord convicted him. The message was something on the order of, “You asked me for a great, divinely inspired task of translation, I sent it to you in the form of translating the Book of Mormon, and you declined.” Professor Mynhardt said he could not sleep through the night because he knew that translating the Book of Mormon would get him into trouble with his university, which was owned and operated by the Dutch Reformed Church. When morning came he telephoned Elder Clark to inform him that he would begin the translation immediately. He stood at the pulpit and described the experience. He said, “I never begin translating a book at the beginning. Writing style usually changes through a book, and becomes more consistent toward the middle. Accordingly, I opened to a random place in the middle of the Book of Mormon, and began translating.” He said, “I was startled by the obvious fact that the Book of Mormon was not authored in English. He said, “It became immediately apparent that what I was reading was a translation into English from some other language. The sentence structure was wrong for native English. The word choices were wrong, as were many phrases.” He said, “How many times has an Englishman said or written, “And it came to pass?” We all laughed, and knew he was right, of course. He continued, “When I realized this, I knew that I had to find the original language, and translate it back into the original language, or a similar language to the original, and then proceed to translate it into Afrikaans. He listed a half-dozen languages he tried, all of which did not accommodate the strange sentence structure found in the Book of Mormon. He said, “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly into Egyptian, not modern, but ancient Egyptian. I found that some nouns were missing from Egyptian, so I added Hebrew nouns where Egyptian did not provide the word or phrase. I chose Hebrew because both languages existed in the same place anciently.” “I had no idea at that time why the Book of Mormon was once written in Egyptian, but I can tell you without any doubt, that this book was at one point written entirely in Egyptian.” I heard him say this over and over. Then, he said, “Imagine my utter astonishment when I turned to chapter one, verse one and began my actual translation and came to verse two, where Nephi describes that he was writing in the language of the Egyptians, with the learning of the Jews!” He said, “I knew by the second verse, that this was no ordinary book, that it was not the writings of Joseph Smith, but that it was of ancient origin and was in fact scripture. I could have saved myself months of work if I had just begun at the beginning. Nobody but God, working through a prophet of God, in this case Nephi, would have included a statement of the language he was writing in. Consider, how many documents written in English, include the phrase, “we are writing in English!” It is unthinkable and absolute proof of the inspired origins of this book. He paused, then noted, “I am one of the few people in the world that is fluent in ancient Egyptian. I am perhaps the only person fluent in ancient Egyptian who is also fluent in Afrikaans and English. And I know for a fact, that I am the only person alive who could have translated this book first into Egyptian, and then into Afrikaans. If your church ever needs an Egyptian translation of the Book of Mormon, it is sitting in my office as we speak.” We all laughed. Professor Mynhardt spoke of many other things regarding the translation of this book, and then said, “I do not know what Joseph Smith was before he translated this book, and I do not know what he was afterward, but while he translated this book, he was a prophet of God! I know he was a prophet! I testify to you that he was a prophet while he brought forth this book! He could have been nothing else! No person in 1827 could have done what he did. The science did not exist. The knowledge of ancient Egyptian did not exist. The knowledge of these ancient times and ancient peoples did not exist. The Book of Mormon is scripture. I hope you realize this. “I will keep promoting this book as scripture for the remainder of my life – simply because it is scripture, and I know it. I haven’t studied your doctrine or your history since Joseph Smith. The only thing I know about the Mormon religion is that you have authentic, ancient scripture in the Book of Mormon, that your church was begun by a living and true prophet of God, and that all of the world should embrace the Book of Mormon as scripture. It simply can’t be denied.” ——- This was written by John Pontius, (member), about Prof. Mynhardt, not a member, who translated the Book of Mormon into Afrikaans. He was quoting some things that Mynhardt said at the conference in 1972. The words in quotes are Mynhardt’s. All the angels, having been around forever, can speak in all languages, ancient and modern. Check out your angels very carefully. The bad ones, the third that fell from grace haven't gone away. So what are you saying about this story? Love life, and condemn those who would restrict its freedom, for they are the ones who are in prison. |
| The_Last_In_Line Breshears is Off: Ask Me Why User ID: 58725417 United States11/05/2014 04:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) I agree that it is a bit more difficult to accept the validity of D & C. The majority of it is basically how to operate the church and policy's and practices to be put in place. In the same breath you could say well if he was telling the truth about the BOM then why not everything he said and all of his works? Quoting: Batty Koda That is how the adversary works. Classic conditioning. Also, Pearl of Great Price is beyond suspect. It's embarrassing, especially Book of Abraham. (B)ullshit™ always needs an amplified bullhorn demanding kneeling subservience - or else.- SyncAsFunk The light within me always draws me back to make the dark decision to leave the false counterfeit light. -New Heart |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 64821113  Netherlands11/05/2014 04:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Shinmen Takezo User ID: 63773533 United States11/05/2014 04:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) The OP's story is COMPLETE HORSESHIT!! He said, “I was startled by the obvious fact that the Book of Mormon was not authored in English. He said, “It became immediately apparent that what I was reading was a translation into English from some other language. The sentence structure was wrong for native English. The word choices were wrong, as were many phrases.” He said, “How many times has an Englishman said or written, “And it came to pass?” Please note the underlined part at the last of the paragraph. The actual author of the "Book Of Mormon" was in fact Sydney Ridgon. Rigdon (who was the first major convert to the LDS reliigon) was a local pastor to Joe Smith--and was pastor to Oliver Cowdery (Joe's cousin). Rigdon was a familiar person in the Smith household prior to release of the BOM. Rigdon stole the premise of the BOM from a couple of sources: "A View Of The Hebrews" and "Manuscript Found" ...both of which dealt with a lost scripture found telling of the ancient history of Jews in America. This was not an novel idea at the time of Joe Smith. Rigdon (before the release of the BOM) often preached to his flock that a "new gospel would soon be uncovered" --and his sermons were laced with the phrase... "and it came to pass." In fact, his nickname at the time was, "ole' and it came to pass." Rigdon concocted the scheme to release the BOM through Joseph Smith who had at that time a well known reputation for "money digging and treasure finding." Rigdon's plan was to use Smith and the BOM as a gimmick to start a new religion. Rigdon would use Smith as would modern day tent revivalist use a small boy as a preacher, or as a healer--as a prop or gimmick. This is why Rigdon became the first convert to the LDS Church and became second in command only to Joe Smith. In fact many early converts wondered just who was in charge of this new religion--as Joe would only sit back silently and let Rigdon run meetings and the show... but this only lasted for a while. Joe wised up and eventually took complete control of the LDS Church--and pushed Rigdon to a sideline position. FYI--early converts were instructed to follow "The Law Of Consecration" ...which in effect required them to sign over all their property, money and assets to Smith and Rigdon for management. And here lay the scam of the early church, and why it was founded... $$$$$. Research the failure of the Bank Of Kirkland and the scams that led to both Smith and Rigdon fleeing criminal prosecution. The Reformed LDS Church woke up to the bullshit in the mid-nineties... and this is the reason why they changed their name to "The Body Of Christ." Also in their church, belief in Joe Smith as a prophet and belief in the BOM as the word of God is no longer required. If any of you wonder just what malarkey transpires within those Mormon Temples, here's some hidden live video of the complete rites and rituals. Enjoy... [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] Last Edited by Shinmen Takezo on 11/05/2014 04:58 PM Shinmen Takezo |
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| The_Last_In_Line Breshears is Off: Ask Me Why User ID: 58725417 United States11/05/2014 05:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) The OP's story is COMPLETE HORSESHIT!! Quoting: Shinmen Takezo He said, “I was startled by the obvious fact that the Book of Mormon was not authored in English. He said, “It became immediately apparent that what I was reading was a translation into English from some other language. The sentence structure was wrong for native English. The word choices were wrong, as were many phrases.” He said, “How many times has an Englishman said or written, “And it came to pass?” Please note the underlined part at the last of the paragraph. The actual author of the "Book Of Mormon" was in fact Sydney Ridgon. Rigdon (who was the first major convert to the LDS reliigon) was a local pastor to Joe Smith--and was pastor to Oliver Cowdery (Joe's cousin). Rigdon was a familiar person in the Smith household prior to release of the BOM. Rigdon stole the premise of the BOM from a couple of sources: "A View Of The Hebrews" and "Manuscript Found" ...both of which dealt with a lost scripture found telling of the ancient history of Jews in America. This was not an novel idea at the time of Joe Smith. Rigdon (before the release of the BOM) often preached to his flock that a "new gospel would soon be uncovered" --and his sermons were laced with the phrase... "and it came to pass." In fact, his nickname at the time was, "ole' and it came to pass." Rigdon concocted the scheme to release the BOM through Joseph Smith who had at that time a well known reputation for "money digging and treasure finding." Rigdon's plan was to use Smith and the BOM as a gimmick to start a new religion. Rigdon would use Smith as would modern day tent revivalist use a small boy as a preacher, or as a healer--as a prop or gimmick. This is why Rigdon became the first convert to the LDS Church and became second in command only to Joe Smith. In fact many early converts wondered just who was in charge of this new religion--as Joe would only sit back silently and let Rigdon run meetings and the show... but this only lasted for a while. Joe wised up and eventually took complete control of the LDS Church--and pushed Rigdon to a sideline position. FYI--early converts were instructed to follow "The Law Of Consecration" ...which in effect required them to sign over all their property, money and assets to Smith and Rigdon for management. And here lay the scam of the early church, and why it was founded... $$$$$. Research the failure of the Bank Of Kirkland and the scams that led to both Smith and Rigdon fleeing criminal prosecution. The Reformed LDS Church woke up to the bullshit in the mid-nineties... and this is the reason why they changed their name to "The Body Of Christ." Also in their church, belief in Joe Smith as a prophet and belief in the BOM as the word of God is no longer required. If any of you wonder just what malarkey transpires within those Mormon Temples, here's some hidden live video of the complete rites and rituals. Enjoy... [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] Never heard of that guy, interesting. You know, it was very easy to say just about anything back then. The field was wide open for the educated and the creative. What I find odd though is the account of Joseph Smith and his interaction with Moroni...which reads as you might expect if Smith was watching a projected Hologram on a loop, or seeing beings coming out of a cloaked ship. And why would the Israelites write in Egyptian at all? Would they not write in Hebrew? If memory serves we're talking about 1st Diaspora here, not straight out of Egypt... It seem for every Pro there is a Con when it comes to BoM. (B)ullshit™ always needs an amplified bullhorn demanding kneeling subservience - or else.- SyncAsFunk The light within me always draws me back to make the dark decision to leave the false counterfeit light. -New Heart |
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| Shinmen Takezo User ID: 63773533 United States11/05/2014 05:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) What I find odd though is the account of Joseph Smith and his interaction with Moroni...which reads as you might expect if Smith was watching a projected Hologram on a loop, or seeing beings coming out of a cloaked ship. That was one theory entertained some years ago. But the simple facts are coming out now--the whole religion was founded as a big financial scam, using this 'new found' book (the BOM) as a recruitment gimmick. Go a research Sydney Rigdon. This cocksucker was a scam artist from the get-go. Also a new book came out a few years ago about this subject, called: "Who Really Wrote The Book Of Mormon." The top movers and shaker of the LDS Church know full well the real history behind their faith--but you will never, ever have any of them come forward with the facts. Shinmen Takezo |
| phillk6751 User ID: 3570422 United States11/05/2014 05:40 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon)  [link to www.holyfetch.com] and look at the comments at: [link to exmormon.org] one specific comment really got me: -The narrator is "remembering back more than 50 years" for an experience that supposedly took place in 1972. That was not more than fifty years ago. Quoting: last linkI served a mission in South Africa from 1971 to 1973. It was an interesting and challenging experience. I attended the Stake Conference in Johannesburg on May 14, 1972 when the new translation of the Book of Mormon into Afrikaans (Die Boek van Mormon) was presented. It was an electric moment. People wept. Some had waited all of their lifetimes to read the Book of Mormon in Afrikaans. Many people had learned English for the sole purpose of reading this scripture. The Spirit was strong among us as we rejoiced. Remembering back more than 50 years, I can still remember Professor Felix Mynhardt [not a member of our church] as he spoke of his experience in translating that sacred book.... Quoting: bs claimWell, funny thing is, 1972 + 50 years is 2022, LMFAO |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 64778618 United States11/05/2014 05:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) For anyone who is a Christin/Religious Scholar this should be an interesting read. Quoting: Batty Koda To summarize: A non Mormon scholar was asked to translate the Book of Mormon into the language of Afrikaans, and while doing so discovered that the original language, that the Book of Mormon was written in was Ancient Egyptian. Which at the time of Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon 1828-1829 was not actually a known language able to be translated fluently into other languages. Thus "proving" that Joseph Smith translated the book of Mormon from ancient Egyptian with some type of "Divine" or unknown to exist help. This story is available at many places online, and is not copywrited. it is called the story of "Die Book Van Mormon" I was searching through my books in storage a few days ago and came across a first edition of the Book of Mormon in Afrikaans. I served a mission in South Africa from 1971 to 1973. It was an interesting and challenging experience. I attended the Stake Conference in Johannesburg on May 14, 1972 when the new translation of the Book of Mormon into Afrikaans (Die Boek van Mormon) was presented. It was an electric moment. People wept. Some had waited all of their lifetimes to read the Book of Mormon in Afrikaans. Many people had learned English for the sole purpose of reading this scripture. The Spirit was strong among us as we rejoiced. Remembering back more than 50 years, I can still remember Professor Felix Mynhardt [not a member of our church] as he spoke of his experience in translating that sacred book. I will retell it as best I can recall. Professor Mynhardt was invited to come to the stand and speak about his experience in translating the Book of Mormon. He recounted how he had been given a gift of languages from God from his youth. He said that he was fluent in many languages, including English, Afrikaans, Hebrew and Egyptian, as well as many others. He was presently employed as a language professor. He said he had been praying that the Lord would give him some task, some divinely important task, that would justify his having this gift of language from God. He said in about 1970 that he had visited with a group of Mormon leaders, who sought to commission him to translate the Book of Mormon from English into Afrikaans. He said that he knew of the Book of Mormon from his religions studies, and his initial reaction was that he did not want to be involved in translating it. However, that evening, as he prayed upon his knees, as was his habit, he said the Spirit of the Lord convicted him. The message was something on the order of, “You asked me for a great, divinely inspired task of translation, I sent it to you in the form of translating the Book of Mormon, and you declined.” Professor Mynhardt said he could not sleep through the night because he knew that translating the Book of Mormon would get him into trouble with his university, which was owned and operated by the Dutch Reformed Church. When morning came he telephoned Elder Clark to inform him that he would begin the translation immediately. He stood at the pulpit and described the experience. He said, “I never begin translating a book at the beginning. Writing style usually changes through a book, and becomes more consistent toward the middle. Accordingly, I opened to a random place in the middle of the Book of Mormon, and began translating.” He said, “I was startled by the obvious fact that the Book of Mormon was not authored in English. He said, “It became immediately apparent that what I was reading was a translation into English from some other language. The sentence structure was wrong for native English. The word choices were wrong, as were many phrases.” He said, “How many times has an Englishman said or written, “And it came to pass?” We all laughed, and knew he was right, of course. He continued, “When I realized this, I knew that I had to find the original language, and translate it back into the original language, or a similar language to the original, and then proceed to translate it into Afrikaans. He listed a half-dozen languages he tried, all of which did not accommodate the strange sentence structure found in the Book of Mormon. He said, “I finally tried Egyptian, and to my complete surprise, I found that the Book of Mormon translated flawlessly into Egyptian, not modern, but ancient Egyptian. I found that some nouns were missing from Egyptian, so I added Hebrew nouns where Egyptian did not provide the word or phrase. I chose Hebrew because both languages existed in the same place anciently.” “I had no idea at that time why the Book of Mormon was once written in Egyptian, but I can tell you without any doubt, that this book was at one point written entirely in Egyptian.” I heard him say this over and over. Then, he said, “Imagine my utter astonishment when I turned to chapter one, verse one and began my actual translation and came to verse two, where Nephi describes that he was writing in the language of the Egyptians, with the learning of the Jews!” He said, “I knew by the second verse, that this was no ordinary book, that it was not the writings of Joseph Smith, but that it was of ancient origin and was in fact scripture. I could have saved myself months of work if I had just begun at the beginning. Nobody but God, working through a prophet of God, in this case Nephi, would have included a statement of the language he was writing in. Consider, how many documents written in English, include the phrase, “we are writing in English!” It is unthinkable and absolute proof of the inspired origins of this book. He paused, then noted, “I am one of the few people in the world that is fluent in ancient Egyptian. I am perhaps the only person fluent in ancient Egyptian who is also fluent in Afrikaans and English. And I know for a fact, that I am the only person alive who could have translated this book first into Egyptian, and then into Afrikaans. If your church ever needs an Egyptian translation of the Book of Mormon, it is sitting in my office as we speak.” We all laughed. Professor Mynhardt spoke of many other things regarding the translation of this book, and then said, “I do not know what Joseph Smith was before he translated this book, and I do not know what he was afterward, but while he translated this book, he was a prophet of God! I know he was a prophet! I testify to you that he was a prophet while he brought forth this book! He could have been nothing else! No person in 1827 could have done what he did. The science did not exist. The knowledge of ancient Egyptian did not exist. The knowledge of these ancient times and ancient peoples did not exist. The Book of Mormon is scripture. I hope you realize this. “I will keep promoting this book as scripture for the remainder of my life – simply because it is scripture, and I know it. I haven’t studied your doctrine or your history since Joseph Smith. The only thing I know about the Mormon religion is that you have authentic, ancient scripture in the Book of Mormon, that your church was begun by a living and true prophet of God, and that all of the world should embrace the Book of Mormon as scripture. It simply can’t be denied.” ——- This was written by John Pontius, (member), about Prof. Mynhardt, not a member, who translated the Book of Mormon into Afrikaans. He was quoting some things that Mynhardt said at the conference in 1972. The words in quotes are Mynhardt’s. It's impossible to legitimize the illegitimate. |
| Old Bat User ID: 7734838 United States11/05/2014 05:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) Thank you to those who read this. Id like to hear your thoughts on it as well. It appears to bring legitimacy at least to the fact that the Book of Mormon was not just something Joseph Smith made up on the fly. Quoting: Batty Koda Back in the late 70's I went to a conference discussing Egypt,the pyramids and electromagnetic energy. The young scientist and his wife gave a hair raising show. They'd had a life-changing event happen to them inside a pyramid. This conference was held at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. Basically, an Egyptian entity (demon) entered into the scientist and revealed to him illuminating wisdom and revelations of how and why the pyramids were built. Long story short; The demon NOW lived in the scientist. He could now speak (in a different voice) in ancient language complete with dialectic authentic accuracy. The entity's voice was very deep, and completely freeking scary. Poop your pants scary. Anyway. I write/tell a re-cap as a final for my history class. My Mormon teacher insisted that it was "an angel" who revealed this info to the scientist. I remember her going into this Moroni or Mormon verbal history of her religion. I didn't care. At the time. I just wanted an A on my final so I could bring up my lousy grade for the semester. I said all that to say this; Satan can disguise himself into an angel of light. Demons are here to deceive, lie and assorted other debauchery. That old Joseph Smith guy just MAY have had an angel/demon experience and... AND look where the Mormon church is today. Geez. I mean really people! Get some logic and rational ! Oh, but don't ASK any Mormon bishops or presidents about this because they will insist you are an apostate. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 64778618 United States11/05/2014 06:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) Yet another attempt by the Godless mormon cult to legitimize their "church" by stating things like "I know" as if that is all we need to believe it as fact. And the book of mormon is NOT scripture by any means. |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 06:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) The OP's story is COMPLETE HORSESHIT!! Quoting: Shinmen Takezo He said, “I was startled by the obvious fact that the Book of Mormon was not authored in English. He said, “It became immediately apparent that what I was reading was a translation into English from some other language. The sentence structure was wrong for native English. The word choices were wrong, as were many phrases.” He said, “How many times has an Englishman said or written, “And it came to pass?” Please note the underlined part at the last of the paragraph. The actual author of the "Book Of Mormon" was in fact Sydney Ridgon. Rigdon (who was the first major convert to the LDS reliigon) was a local pastor to Joe Smith--and was pastor to Oliver Cowdery (Joe's cousin). Rigdon was a familiar person in the Smith household prior to release of the BOM. Rigdon stole the premise of the BOM from a couple of sources: "A View Of The Hebrews" and "Manuscript Found" ...both of which dealt with a lost scripture found telling of the ancient history of Jews in America. This was not an novel idea at the time of Joe Smith. Rigdon (before the release of the BOM) often preached to his flock that a "new gospel would soon be uncovered" --and his sermons were laced with the phrase... "and it came to pass." In fact, his nickname at the time was, "ole' and it came to pass." Rigdon concocted the scheme to release the BOM through Joseph Smith who had at that time a well known reputation for "money digging and treasure finding." Rigdon's plan was to use Smith and the BOM as a gimmick to start a new religion. Rigdon would use Smith as would modern day tent revivalist use a small boy as a preacher, or as a healer--as a prop or gimmick. This is why Rigdon became the first convert to the LDS Church and became second in command only to Joe Smith. In fact many early converts wondered just who was in charge of this new religion--as Joe would only sit back silently and let Rigdon run meetings and the show... but this only lasted for a while. Joe wised up and eventually took complete control of the LDS Church--and pushed Rigdon to a sideline position. FYI--early converts were instructed to follow "The Law Of Consecration" ...which in effect required them to sign over all their property, money and assets to Smith and Rigdon for management. And here lay the scam of the early church, and why it was founded... $$$$$. Research the failure of the Bank Of Kirkland and the scams that led to both Smith and Rigdon fleeing criminal prosecution. The Reformed LDS Church woke up to the bullshit in the mid-nineties... and this is the reason why they changed their name to "The Body Of Christ." Also in their church, belief in Joe Smith as a prophet and belief in the BOM as the word of God is no longer required. If any of you wonder just what malarkey transpires within those Mormon Temples, here's some hidden live video of the complete rites and rituals. Enjoy... [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] I appreciate your enthusiasm to comment, but unfortunetly half of what you said does not line up with historical fact. It is clearly hearsay from an unreliable source. Didnt they tell you that you should fact check from sources that have nothing to gain from either promoting or downgrading specific ideals? Im sorry but your story is funny Love life, and condemn those who would restrict its freedom, for they are the ones who are in prison. |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 06:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 07:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) [link to www.holyfetch.com] and look at the comments at: [link to exmormon.org] one specific comment really got me: -The narrator is "remembering back more than 50 years" for an experience that supposedly took place in 1972. That was not more than fifty years ago. Quoting: last linkI served a mission in South Africa from 1971 to 1973. It was an interesting and challenging experience. I attended the Stake Conference in Johannesburg on May 14, 1972 when the new translation of the Book of Mormon into Afrikaans (Die Boek van Mormon) was presented. It was an electric moment. People wept. Some had waited all of their lifetimes to read the Book of Mormon in Afrikaans. Many people had learned English for the sole purpose of reading this scripture. The Spirit was strong among us as we rejoiced. Remembering back more than 50 years, I can still remember Professor Felix Mynhardt [not a member of our church] as he spoke of his experience in translating that sacred book.... Quoting: bs claimWell, funny thing is, 1972 + 50 years is 2022, LMFAO Good catch here but hes only off by 10 years he may have just misspoken. Love life, and condemn those who would restrict its freedom, for they are the ones who are in prison. |
| Batty Koda (OP) User ID: 41943842 United States11/05/2014 07:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) Thank you to those who read this. Id like to hear your thoughts on it as well. It appears to bring legitimacy at least to the fact that the Book of Mormon was not just something Joseph Smith made up on the fly. Quoting: Batty Koda Back in the late 70's I went to a conference discussing Egypt,the pyramids and electromagnetic energy. The young scientist and his wife gave a hair raising show. They'd had a life-changing event happen to them inside a pyramid. This conference was held at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. Basically, an Egyptian entity (demon) entered into the scientist and revealed to him illuminating wisdom and revelations of how and why the pyramids were built. Long story short; The demon NOW lived in the scientist. He could now speak (in a different voice) in ancient language complete with dialectic authentic accuracy. The entity's voice was very deep, and completely freeking scary. Poop your pants scary. Anyway. I write/tell a re-cap as a final for my history class. My Mormon teacher insisted that it was "an angel" who revealed this info to the scientist. I remember her going into this Moroni or Mormon verbal history of her religion. I didn't care. At the time. I just wanted an A on my final so I could bring up my lousy grade for the semester. I said all that to say this; Satan can disguise himself into an angel of light. Demons are here to deceive, lie and assorted other debauchery. That old Joseph Smith guy just MAY have had an angel/demon experience and... AND look where the Mormon church is today. Geez. I mean really people! Get some logic and rational ! Oh, but don't ASK any Mormon bishops or presidents about this because they will insist you are an apostate. I am not sure of what you are talking about here. Who is the scientist and what does he have to do with the mormon religion? Or are you using that as a contrast to say the same thing could have happened to Joeseph Smith? Love life, and condemn those who would restrict its freedom, for they are the ones who are in prison. |
| Shinmen Takezo User ID: 63773533 United States11/05/2014 07:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) I appreciate your enthusiasm to comment, but unfortunetly half of what you said does not line up with historical fact. It is clearly hearsay from an unreliable source. Didnt they tell you that you should fact check from sources that have nothing to gain from either promoting or downgrading specific ideals? Im sorry but your story is funny Do you mean "Mormon Historical Facts" --which is bullshit! This stuff I wrote (in overview/sketch form) is what transpired back then. I suggest you crack open a book entitled: "Nightfall In Navoo" for starters... this may enlighten you a tad. The LDS version of their history is a complete construct (package of lies). I suggest you pull your fat head out of your ass and research Sydney Rigdon--and this guys relationship to the Smith Family prior to the release of the fake BOM. The LDS church leaders are completely correct in that Joe Smith (an idiot) could not have written the BOM--and they are correct, because he didn't. The real author is Sydney Rigdon--the man who invented Mormonism. And once Rigdon concocted his new bible/recruitment gimmick--both he and Joe Smith made up the lies and doctrines of their new church as they went along. It's funny that the BOM provides nothing in the way of LDS Church Doctrines, beliefs, Temple Rites and so forth. It just stands alone as a novelty (back then and still today) serving as a door opener and gimmick for Missionaries (although it has worn off tremendously since the introduction of the internet). Last Edited by Shinmen Takezo on 11/05/2014 07:13 PM Shinmen Takezo |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 64632799 United States11/05/2014 07:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) Interesting thread, nonetheless. :) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 61077421 United States11/05/2014 07:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) Allegedly is the key word In that title. This is at best circumstantial and at worst a fabrication. I'll admit that I didn't read the whole thing, cause honestly I could care less. However, what I read before I remembered that I don't give a shit was far from convincing. Also, isn't ancient Egyptian a dead language? Sure people have figured out how to read it, but how can you claim to be fluent in a language that hasn't even been heard in thousands of years? What do the syllables sound like? How do they know? It all sounds like a scam to me. Simply a way to make some money, kind of like LDS (and organized religion) in general. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 7734838 United States11/05/2014 10:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) Mormons can be given scientific and historical evidence that is contrary to their historical "facts" and they dismiss them like an old lady cleaning with her feather duster. There is no getting through the delusion. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 18532226 United States11/05/2014 10:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 64832893 United States11/06/2014 12:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| OLD BAT User ID: 7734838 United States11/06/2014 01:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Die Boek van Mormon (Interesting story that allegedly proves the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon) Thank you to those who read this. Id like to hear your thoughts on it as well. It appears to bring legitimacy at least to the fact that the Book of Mormon was not just something Joseph Smith made up on the fly. Quoting: Batty Koda Back in the late 70's I went to a conference discussing Egypt,the pyramids and electromagnetic energy. The young scientist and his wife gave a hair raising show. They'd had a life-changing event happen to them inside a pyramid. This conference was held at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. Basically, an Egyptian entity (demon) entered into the scientist and revealed to him illuminating wisdom and revelations of how and why the pyramids were built. Long story short; The demon NOW lived in the scientist. He could now speak (in a different voice) in ancient language complete with dialectic authentic accuracy. The entity's voice was very deep, and completely freeking scary. Poop your pants scary. Anyway. I write/tell a re-cap as a final for my history class. My Mormon teacher insisted that it was "an angel" who revealed this info to the scientist. I remember her going into this Moroni or Mormon verbal history of her religion. I didn't care. At the time. I just wanted an A on my final so I could bring up my lousy grade for the semester. I said all that to say this; Satan can disguise himself into an angel of light. Demons are here to deceive, lie and assorted other debauchery. That old Joseph Smith guy just MAY have had an angel/demon experience and... AND look where the Mormon church is today. Geez. I mean really people! Get some logic and rational ! Oh, but don't ASK any Mormon bishops or presidents about this because they will insist you are an apostate. I am not sure of what you are talking about here. Who is the scientist and what does he have to do with the mormon religion? Or are you using that as a contrast to say the same thing could have happened to Joeseph Smith? It does not matter WHO the scientist was, it was enough that he had an experience similar to your "prophet". I was telling you a personal experience that included an Egyptian demon and a Mormon teacher. I'll trying to keep this simple for you. I'm saying that Joseph Smith most likely had a demon help him write the words in supposed "Ancient Egyptian" language. Also, I am calling Mormons to begin to look at their religion with logic and rationality. The decades of lying mendacity of the Mormon elders is astonishing to outsiders who study this cult/religion. Inside this religion is a type of mindset that can only be described as delusional. Sure, it looks squeaky clean and family oriented plus its just old-fashioned enough to seem "right" to a certain kind of person who wants the old style of man & wife plus lots of children, belonging, etc. Go for it. Pretend the Mormon religion is real and maybe, if you believe hard enough, it WILL be! Yah, that's it! Fake it till ya make it.(I am being sarcastic now) Me? I remember that Mormon world history teacher who gave me my first insight into Mormonism. She thought demons were holy angels telling you truth and wisdom. Here's another thought; When finishing reading Revelations there's a verse that states .. anyone who ADDS to the words of the bible... well, you go read it for yourself. |
