Can we have a serious conversation about Russian relations?

Your cry baby ass really needs to get it through your head

Russia doesn't call the shots and everyones tired of their crying. Buncha snowflakes. That many countries speak out against Russia for a reason and I believe them before Russia as they are our allies.

If anyone knows Russia it's their neighbors and that is who we should listen to obviously.

If Russia was doing nothing wrong all these countries wouldn't be doing this. It would be just 1 or 2 butt hurts instead of the entire region.

There's really nothing else to it. If Russia wants that to stop then they can stop doing what they are doing to cause it. It's their problem and only they can fix it by changing their actions towards these countries.

Last Edited by Merit on 01/20/2017 07:47 PM

What makes you think you have an insight into what Donald Trump will or will not do? I don't think that any of us really do, as relating to any particular country or region. I just hope he doesn't buy any of the bullshit that the Globalists have been lying about. I know he's not buying some of it.
Russia was made out to be our enemy after WWII and they've been cast as the boogy man ever since. Maybe it's time for a new day of cooperation between the US and Russia. Because Trump is America First, does not mean that a deal can't have two winners.
Russia isn't trying to retake the Baltic states and anyone that says so is lying. He could take Ukraine if he wanted to, but his interest was in protecting persecuted/genocided Russian speakers. He was forced to take Crimea by the criminal proceedings of the US State dept/Clinton/Soros/Nuland. The Transnistrian Strip has voted to become part of Russia and that is still out there, waiting for a resolution.

Would you like me to bump the thread after this happens so you'll know I know what I'm talking about and then I can just skip going over yrs of experience with geopolitics?

You will not say who is lying about the Baltics. You will deal with it to.

Those in the Baltics say what is going on in the Baltics and anyone who says they don't know what's going on is lying.

Only a retard would ignore the Baltics states input in regards to their own countries relationships with Russia.

The only ppl who say Russia is innocent is Russia and they are out voted by the entire region.

There can be a win/win scenario. If Russia will allow it.

They're going to have to drop some bullshit though. That's just reality.

The fact you think he could take Ukraine now though just sums up how delusional you are in regards to Russias strength and the strength of what's surrounding him.

He allowed NATO to rebuild into a major force after it was almost dead when he took part of Crimea.

Now NATO is full grown and sitting in his back yard where they were not before

Last Edited by Merit on 01/20/2017 08:10 PM

yeah, you bump it. NATO shouldn't even be in this area, and the US shouldn't be putting missiles and troops in the area. These are provocations of Obama and I truly hope that Trump removes them. Russia isn't starting shit, Soros/Obama/Clinton are the bad people here, starting especially with Ukraine.

Just check Blackstone and why grumpy doesn't like NATO.....maybe it will help the country up north?

Lol ok I will but good luck when the only ppl in the entire area that thinks Russia is some innocent victim is Russia.

Trump can piss off the entire region by ignoring input from every country surrounding Russia, destabilizing it in the process, or make Russia a deal where they don't get everything they want but get a good deal and as long as they don't provoke anyone they have nothing to worry about.

It's pretty easy to see what direction he's going to take and Russia should take the deal and show they're not up to anything and let ppl trust them again naturally over time.

Instead of demanding countries not fear them and stop building their defenses, while they constantly expand their own military, or else. Which you have to admit sounds pretty screwy.

Last Edited by Merit on 01/20/2017 08:27 PM

I'm curious of your opinion on Ukraine, the Donbas conflict and Crimean peninsula.

A cluster fuck. That's my opinion.

Crimea once you strip away all the bullshit is about controlling the port there. It's a military move to hold Crimea. All the social rhetoric is the same old bullshit any war/conflict has around it to try and legitimize military action. The truth is they went after Crimea to make sure no one else could use that port against them. So that part is simple.


Now because they won't or can't just say that it creates the Donbas conflict in its wake.

This creates yet another problem for Russia. There are areas under russian control now far past Crimea who do not want Russia controlling them. They were given no vote like Crimea, even though that whole vote was a frigging farce, and they are fighting of course because who doesn't when a neighboring country takes your land?

Ukraine is something Russia can not have and by their own words all they wanted was Crimea yet the Donbas conflict has taken them well past that.

Russia now has to find a way to either scale back the land they are controlling in Ukraine to prove they're not trying to take it over or legitimize holding it with their military. Which clearly they cant do.

So they're doing nothing and waiting holding things indefinitely as long as they can. The idea being if they can hold it long enough it will eventually just be considered Russia.

However that is not likely because the one thing the world will not tolerate from Russia anymore is expansionist land grabs. Their history clearly shows why.

So, Russia stays in a perpetual danger and no one respects their input because their actions are not honorable and do not line up with their words.

Russia really has an issue with creating their own problems and then trying to blame shift that ppl are picking on them after they literally attack someone. It's one of the weirdest things about russian politics. They've always done it. The "victim bully".

Even when they have a point they end up ruining it most the time by doing something worse than what they were complaining about. Making any chance at having sympathy for them pretty much over.

We are fortunate to have policy makers who understand two things:

1. NATO would get it's ass kicked in 48 hours in an attempted invasion of Russia to create regime change.

2. Russia is the only country in the world that has the nuclear capability to annihilate the U.S.

Thank you for your service policy makers.

Lol. Russia would be a smoking pile. MAD ensures it. They're literally surrounded by nuclear powers and missile shields.

It's not simple and Russia is not strong enough to beat either NATO or The US 1 on 1.

What you mean is the world is being merciful and trying to avoid killing all Russians because the Kremlin has a stick up its ass.

It's just Russias ego that won't let them say it outright.

Last Edited by Merit on 01/24/2017 12:11 PM

Putin doesn't want a shit hole like Poland.

This is strange to see all this really - OP doesn't understand the situation. 'Russia must do this", "Russia owes us that", "Russia is responsible for another thing", "It's not up to Russia to decide" etc.

To start with, you simply don't understand the difference in the mentality of people in the US and Russia - hence your logic is flawed.

Currently (in particular, during the last few years of Obama administration), what US is trying to do is to force Russia into certain concessions (of various sorts) via offensive, often humiliating measures. It will never yield results with them - Russian people much rather accept more difficult economic conditions, than giving in.

That said, what the US actually could do is to implement a pragmatic attitude based on a) mutual RESPECT and b) benefit for either party. Via this route, the US could easily negotiate a very good deal for them (which would yield benefits for Russia but at the same time yield significantly more benefit for the US, as the latter have more leverage to use in negotiations).

If, on the contrary, the US continues to try to force Russia into something (often via actions which are disrespectful towards them) - not much chance to succeed.

And when the OP says that "Baltics have nothing to do with Russia or their interests", at the same time saying that it has something to do with the US (via NATO alliance) - this is hilarious. The first and foremost goal of NATO always was to oppose the USSR - and it never changed :)

Exactly. If all these idiots supporting Putin just took a few minutes to review Russia long history of aggression against its neighbors they may just wake up from their own stupidity. Trust Putin and you will pay for it dearly. Imagine if Obama changed the constitution so he could run again. That is exactly what Putin did and no one likes to mention that little sweet fact.

You gave the classic problem while illustrating it.

Yes Russia thinks differently. They however are not in a position to have their way of thinking applied to the rest of the world.

They are out numbered and the world disagrees with them.

It literal does not matter how Russia explains it the world said no.

The weird part is Russia not understanding the simple concept of that fact.


Russia does not have the leverage here. They are completely outgunned, out numbered, out voted and out maneuvered.

The only thing they have is nukes. Big deal so does everyone else.

I'm glad you posted though. It shows why Russia can't move forward in the world. They think over and over again the world will come around to their way of thinking and they wont. So they keep themselves in trouble and ruined.

Einsteins definition of insanity applies.

Last Edited by Merit on 01/24/2017 12:21 PM

It makes me chuckle. What do the right in america hate?

Censorship

Big government

Welfare states

No middle class

State run press

Police states

Spying on citizens

No term limits for presidents

Strict pointless gun laws


....just to name a few


Russia has all those and ppl come on here talking about they've done their research and Russia is more free than america and just a lovely place to live.

WhIle having everything they hate in spades

You can't even own a handgun in Russia FFS

Last Edited by Merit on 01/24/2017 12:28 PM

You claim to be an "elite" bloodline, but don't seem to understand geopolitics... That's odd, but I suppose you have people to do that for you.

But seeing as you asked. I think Russia will happily support another American century.

The illusion of choice as to pandering towards the aspirations of the proletariat of the nations, in alleviating possible insurgency forces.

Leaves Russia with the viable option of playing "second fiddle" in the arms market whilst being a major power in the energy market.

I would anticipate regional conflicts (For the purpose of facilitating arms sales.) over regional hegemony
whilst maintaining a "balanced" global New World Order.

All out war is not in anyone's favor and existential threats to any nuclear nation would result in massive destruction of property and loss of life.

Loss of life may be tolerated, but property destruction equals wealth devastation and wealth destruction is only really worthwhile when the public pays for nation building.

If the nation's population demands that there be no nation building, then property destruction isn't a good idea under the so called "broken window" theory. In that "broken windows" squander wealth as production is diverted to the "broken window" repairer. When in fact should production not be diverted to the repair of the "broken window" an addition house could have a duplicate window.

Bombs and guns are a bad idea, the various nation's population should be slaughtered with bioweapons. The desire to instill a reverence for life and it's struggles as having meaning is an antiquated idea without modern merit.

Thanks for your reply, OP. However, when you say "the whole world thinks differently" or "The whole world is against them", dig a bit deeper. Brexit. Italian referendum. Trump victory. Imminent anti-Hollande next president in France. Very big problems that Merkel is starting to face... You'd be naive to think this all purely coincidental - and this trend may well continue. Now ask yourself "why?"

Just because some Eastern European countries, who were on the receiving end of Russian imposed communism, don't want to be controlled from Moscow, that doesn't mean USA should take them over like they did.
Remember, the Russians retreated by themselves from those countries, but with the condition that they remain non aligned. Few years later, NATO moved east like a plague, not only in the former comblock countries, but also former Soviet republics. This is the problem. NATO didn't keep it's part of the bargain.
Even someone like me, who grew up in a East European country, messed up by Russian imposed communism, knows the Russians are right to be worried about the NATO expansion all around them.
Just for your information, look at a map with NATO bases during cold war and then compare it with a recent one. Russia is surrounded and their reaction in Crimea and even Ukraine is basically the last stand.
They had to act! If the bullshit NATO expansion continues and USA/NATo doesn't back down from Ukraine, Georgia and some other places in the Russian's backyard, there's only one outcome: Nuclear war. There's no were else for Russia to retreat and I wouldn't blame them for nuking the west.

The only why I'm wondering is why you think the populist movement is pro russian.

This is not a zero sum equation where there is only two options.

Russia thinking or the other kind of thinking.

The idea that populism equals Russias brand of expansionist nationalism is simply a false equivalency.

True nationalism means not letting other countries cross your border uninvited and populism supports that notion and supports the right of other countries border integrity.

Last Edited by Merit on 01/24/2017 12:39 PM

They didn't take them over though. If you can't admit that there is no point to us debating. They asked for help.

This is no different than Syria asking Russia for help.

The Baltics asked for help and America responded like a good ally does with anakonda

Last Edited by Merit on 01/24/2017 12:42 PM

OP, over the last years, "way of thinking of the world" more or less meant "the opinion of Obama and to a lesser extent Merkel/Cameron". What we see now is that, in fact, many people across the globe actually not support the way of thinking of Obama and Cameron/Merkel. So, this is a starting point

Look there is an information gap that is not being addressed here.

There is Russias version of the story where they are a poor misunderstood government being picked on.


Then there is every country surrounding them screaming they do not want Russian influence anywhere near them and asking for help.


You can no more criticize Russias neighbors for defending themselves than you can Russia for doing the same thing.



Be rational. These countries are allowed to not like Russia and defend themselves. What kind of American would try to deny these countries have that right?

go see some of ron pauls opinions on foreign relations,he really is a common sense guy
ime sure some of us brits would swap a farage for a ron paul

This is what I mean. You're wrong.

It is not a zero sum equation with only two options.

Russia thinking/other thinking

There is a whole spectrum of ideologies in between Russia and Obama.

The Russian tactic is and always has been to try and make it a black or white with only two choices then attempt to make themselves the right choice out of the two.


I'm breaking that paradigm. There is unlimited choices between Russia thinking and globalist thinking.

But yes I think there is room to work with Russia sure. The Globalists failing certainly helps things in that direction as it no longer has to be the world against Russia in ppls minds.

Last Edited by Merit on 01/24/2017 12:51 PM

I'll make it simple. When what I say happens you admit I was right

Deal?

heres chinas foreign policy

"you dont hit customer over head"

What makes you think you need to have "a serious conversation about Russian relations?" Did you think expressing your thoughts and ideas will have any sort of an effect?

Lol. Are you that important? I doubt it. Lol

OP, maybe I had to be more specific. Not "The whole world is against Russia", it's "Obama and Cameron/Merkel are against Russia" - and with all other things, they made the world think the same. Why anti-Russian ideology was important for Obama I have no idea - but it really was one of the cornerstones of his policy. Perhaps, your new president has other priorities (how to earn more money for America, for example) - and if it proves to be so, anti-Russian stuff will move off the US agenda pretty quickly (as obviously you have many internal things to handle, too). If it happens, "the whole world" will follow suit

8 years of crypto communists from Obama administrations pushed Poland into confrontation with Russia and our leaders could not protest, otherwise they would be killed.
Russia is capitalistic, chrsitian nations and Putin will never let communists take power. Trump knows that and he will let Poland and rest of the world conduct independet politics with Russia. Spring will herald a new Golden Era of New united Europe from Lisbon to Ural mountains and Trump is catalyst of that change.

FIFY