astrology for uranus in aries - a call to arms

Uranus is not in Aries until 2017...

This astrology stuff is going to the birds.

Good one, Hercules. ;)

If anyone is serious...they will look it up for themselves and stop believing what is posted on astrology sites.

Anyone in the world can observe where the planets are....

Go to this link...

[link to www.heavens-above.com]

Look up on the top bar and find Pisces...then look for yourself what that pulls up.

Uranus is in Pisces and will be there for 7 years.

Either people concern themselves with true facts or believe the myth of others.

I hope you're right and they are so vicious they scare off the cops. Then I can draw a bead on the Che Guevarra/Karl Marx wanna bes without worrying about the cops.

I dislike muslim terrorists, but I absolutely hate Democrats, Socialists and other such communists.

Go ahead and start a shooting fight. Suits me just fine.

[link to www.angelfire.com]



The Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs
A Discussion


Introduction
Unless they are astrologers, not many people know that two “different“ zodiacs are the basis of the two major forms of astrology being practiced in the world today. One, called sidereal astrology, is used, in general, in eastern countries, like India. It may be referred to as “Eastern” astrology. Hindu astrology is one form of sidereal astrology. Older, “ancient” astrologies--Chaldean, Egyptian--were also sidereal.

The other, called tropical astrology, is practiced in the Americas, Europe, Australia, and parts of Africa. We could call it “Western” astrology.

The most obvious difference between them today is that the tropical zodiac is about 25° degrees ahead of the sidereal one. Since each sign is only 30° long, it means these two astrologies are almost a whole sign apart. So, for instance, if you were born in the West and your tropical sun is at 15° Cancer, in the East, that is, sidereally, it is at 20 Gemini.

The same thing happens to all the planets in your chart--in the East, they drop back almost a whole sign. Ditto for signs on the cusp of Angles and houses.

Two conditions remain the same in both systems. The planets themselves stay in the same houses, and they retain the same aspects, that is, their relationship to each other remains the same. Everything has just changed signs.

Considering that signs play a prominent part in astrology (see footnote 1, at bottom), this situation deserves more reflection. How did the West end up with a different system than the East? Is their difference one only of sign, or is more involved? What implications does the co-existence of two different systems have on astrology as a whole? Is astrology so flexible that both systems can be equally valid?


Are you so flexible you can be a Cancer in the West and a Gemini in the East?

In order to better understand how this split came about, let’s start with a short tour of past astrological habits.

Both tropical and sidereal are not accurate.

Sidereal is more accurate then tropical...but it is not absolute.

Always check all things through astronomy, the true positions.

The sun does not stay in each sign a equal amount of time...but yet both zodiacs divide into equal parts. Neither zodiac accounts for Ophiuchus...in which the sun spends more then 16 days in.

You first go figure why it was divided for exactly 12 signs .

Care to add why you think it was divided into 12? If we are going to use the animals as divisors...then there are many problems with a equal divided circle.

I can support the circle being divided into 12 equal parts...and label them as 1-12 instead of with animals...for this was how it was done to begin with. The animals came later.

It remains a issue though that the path of the sun can not be fixed like a calendar...due to precession. It is always changing and it must be observed.

It's simple. Jupiter's orbit is 12 Earth years. Each Earth's year Jupiter 'marks'(passes) one constellation of the first ring of the Zodiac .

Jupiter simply screams 'Look at me!' all the time - and no one actually gives a damn. :)


Thread: Nibiru is another name for Jupiter

That is very interesting about Jupiter. But I think its fair to say that Jupiter does not spend equal amount of time in each constellation. Each constellation is of different size...but if we ignore the constellations and just divide the circle up into 12 equal parts...then this I could understand totally.

Plus...how is that any different really...then the idea of the sun taking 12 months to go through a entire circle of the zodiac?

Do you have something of ancient text talking about this idea of making a circle path in the sky divided into 12 part for the path of Jupiter...or is this just your thinking?

Jupiter actually transverses through more then 12 constellations as well...so again, the constellation thing doesnt add up.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

What follows is a list of the twelve signs of the zodiac (with the ecliptic longitudes of their first points)


Does that ring a bell? :)

The equally divided space makes sense...but not to include the constellations, sense they are not of the same amount of space and also this does not account for Ophiuchus.

Do you see what I am saying?

This is why I find it iffy to use the animals (constellations) as markers...and its best to just use the longitude as a measurement. I appreciate the feedback here!

My example to use for the reason of the constellations being bad markers is that Scorpio is so small...Jupiter not taking a entire year there as well as the Sun not spending a whole month there.

Ill read more on that link...just took a fast glance at the breakdown. Im surprised they used equal amounts of space to show constellations...for that makes no sense in a true observation of the boundaries for the circle of animals.

It says with the ecliptic longitudes of their first points. So there's actually equal amount of space between their first points .

Astrology (the use of the fixed zodiac circle) uses equal space for the boundaries of the animals...but this is a false representation of the true placements. Each sign takes up different amounts of space...astrology is off by 80% today due to this fixation.

Astronomy on the other hand...acknowledges the true positions and the true boundaries...each constellation is not given the equal amounts of space as the page that you are showing.

Here are some things I pulled from that very page.

**There is also a 13th star/ zodiac sign called Ophiuchus. Of the 13 zodiacal constellations (constellations that contain the Sun during the course of the year), Ophiuchus is the only one not counted as an astrological sign. Ophiuchus is depicted as a man grasping a serpent. Ophiuchus is one of the 88 constellations and was also one of the 48 listed by Ptolemy. Ophiuchus was formerly referred to as Serpentarius, the former originating in Greek and the latter in Latin, both meaning "serpent-holder".**

Above we can see that the path of the zodiac has changes over time, for example, there is Ophiuchus now in this path and is not accounted for...a huge blunder for astrology.

***It is important to distinguish the zodiacal signs from the constellations associated with them, not only because of their drifting apart due to the precession of equinoxes but also because the physical constellations by nature of their varying shapes and forms take up varying widths of the ecliptic. Thus, Virgo takes up fully five times as much ecliptic longitude as Scorpius. The zodiacal signs, on the other hand, are an abstraction from the physical constellations designed to represent exactly one twelfth of the full circle each, or the longitude traversed by the Sun in about 30.4 days.***

***Taking the current constellation boundaries as defined in 1930 by the International Astronomical Union, the ecliptic itself passes through an additional thirteenth constellation, Ophiuchus, situated between Scorpius and Sagittarius. This is already recognized in Ptolemy's Almagest. This constellation, Ophiuchus is situated between November 30 and December 17. Ophiuchus is not recognised as a general Zodiac.***

***The theoretical beginning of Aries is the moment of vernal equinox, and all other dates shift accordingly. The precise Gregorian times and dates vary slightly from year to year as the Gregorian calendar shifts relative to the tropical year.[14] These variations remain within less than two days' difference in the recent past and the near-future, vernal equinox in UTC always falling either on 20 or 21 of March in the period of 1797 to 2043, falling on 19 March in 1796 the last time and in 2044 the next.[15] In the long term, if the Gregorian calendar isn't reformed, the equinox will move to earlier dates: it will fall on 18 March for the first time in AD 4092.***

***The zodiac is a spherical celestial coordinate system. It designates the ecliptic as its fundamental plane and the position of the Sun at Vernal equinox as its prime meridian.

In astronomy, the zodiacal constellations are a convenient way of marking the ecliptic (the Sun's path across the sky) and the path of the moon and planets along the ecliptic. Modern astronomy still uses tropical coordinates for predicting the positions the Sun, Moon, and planets, except longitude in the ecliptic coordinate system is numbered from 0° to 360°, not 0° to 30° within each sign. Longitude within individual signs was still being used as late as 1740 by Jacques Cassini in his Tables astronomiques.

Zodiac is also used to refer to the zodiacal cloud of dust grains that move among the planets and the zodiacal light that originates from their scattering of sunlight.

Unlike the zodiac signs in astrology, which are all thirty degrees in length, the astronomical constellations vary widely in size. The boundaries of all the constellations in the sky were set by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) in 1930. This was, in essence, a mapping exercise to make the work of astronomers more efficient, and the boundaries of the constellations are not therefore in any meaningful sense an 'equivalent' to the zodiac signs. Along with the twelve original constellations, the boundaries of a thirteenth constellation, Ophiuchus (the serpent bearer), were set by astronomers within the bounds of the zodiac.***

Interesting read on Jupiter. I will have to let that one marinate.

I have studied astrology for about 8 years now, and I study tropical not sidereal, though I have looked at sidereal I haven't studied it in depth.

The 13th sign is a Pandora's box, I have a long way to go. I have read up on it and I find it very interesting.

I read aquariuspapers.com and planetwaves.net, both of these men are tropical astrologers. Astro.com has a great forum as a tool for learning as well, they have a vedic area in the forum as well.



This guy is really good IMO:


[link to globalastrologyblog.blogspot.com]

I understand that both of them do not show true observations of true positions. Would you like a example? Or care to show me how I dont understand? Ive been studying them for years now. I know that astronomy is the only way to go to keep track of the sun and planets positions.

I am completely open and would love for you to show me anything I am not understanding...I appreciate others engaging in conversating about this for most really ignore the facts.

A true solar zodiac is always changing....do you understand that? That it cant be fixed. Do you understand the sun does not rise in each sign for the same amount of time? Do you understand that if you are to step outside with a telescope tonight and search for Uranus...that you will find it in the constellation of Pisces?

***In any case it must be stressed that although these traditional signs (in western tropical astrology) have given their names to the solstices and equinoxes, in reality, (as from the list in the previous chapter) the cardinal points are currently situated in the constellations of Pisces, Taurus, Virgo and Sagittarius respectively, due to the precession of the equinoxes.***

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

This is the reason why a zodiac cant be fixed with time...for it is always changing.

Please explain to me why astrologist tell us that Uranus is entering Aries....but through true observation...it is in Pisces.

Yes. You need to go back and read the basics of astrology, and what is needed to erect a chart.

Because you're using astronomy and not astrology.

Precession of the Equinox rings a bell? Aries is not aries anymore, but to astrology it doesn't change.

I understand that the chart is use from the positions of the cosmos of 2000 years ago. 2000 years before that..the positions were different, just as though they are today...and just as though they will be in another 2000 years.

So why do you find that a tropical or sidereal zodiac hold any water today>?

Which is why astrology holds no water. They fixed something that cant be fixed.

I use astronomy because it observes the cosmos...and doesnt go by positions of 2000 years ago.

Im not going to tell people that Uranus is going into Aries when it is clearly not.

Just as though Im not going to tell someone born on Dec. 9th that they are a Sagittarius when the sun clearly rose in Ophiuchus on their birth.

That's what you're doing wrong.

Astrology will not change because of your views.