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WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It

 
RoXY
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WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto the Indefinite Detention Bill (Hint: It’s Not to Protect Liberty)
by Washington's Blog
December 5, 2011

Obama Wants to Veto the Indefinite Detention Bill Because It Would Hold the U.S. to the Geneva Convention

I – like everyone else – am horrified by the Senate’s passage of legislation that would allow for indefinite detention of Americans.

And at first, I – like many others – assumed that Obama’s threat to veto the bill might be a good thing. But the truth is much more disturbing.

As former Wall Street Street editor and columnist Paul Craig Roberts correctly notes:

The Obama regime’s objection to military detention is not rooted in concern for the constitutional rights of American citizens. The regime objects to military detention because the implication of military detention is that detainees are prisoners of war. As Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin put it: Should somebody determined “to be a member of an enemy force who has come to this nation or is in this nation to attack us as a member of a foreign enemy, should that person be treated according to the laws of war? The answer is yes.”

Detainees treated according to the laws of war have the protections of the Geneva Conventions. They cannot be tortured. The Obama regime opposes military detention, because detainees would have some rights. These rights would interfere with the regime’s ability to send detainees to CIA torture prisons overseas. [Yes, Obama is still apparently allowing "extraordinary renditions" to torture people abroad.] This is what the Obama regime means when it says that the requirement of military detention denies the regime “flexibility.”

The Bush/Obama regimes have evaded the Geneva Conventions by declaring that detainees are not POWs, but “enemy combatants,” “terrorists,” or some other designation that removes all accountability from the US government for their treatment.

By requiring military detention of the captured, Congress is undoing all the maneuvering that two regimes have accomplished in removing POW status from detainees.

A careful reading of the Obama regime’s objections to military detention supports this conclusion. (See [link to www.whitehouse.gov]

The November 17 letter to the Senate from the Executive Office of the President says that the Obama regime does not want the authority it has under the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Public Law 107-40, to be codified. Codification is risky, the regime says. “After a decade of settled jurisprudence on detention authority, Congress must be careful not to open a whole new series of legal questions that will distract from our efforts to protect the country.”

In other words, the regime is saying that under AUMF the executive branch has total discretion as to who it detains and how it treats detainees. Moreover, as the executive branch has total discretion, no one can find out what the executive branch is doing, who detainees are, or what is being done to them. Codification brings accountability, and the executive branch does not want accountability.

Those who see hope in Obama’s threatened veto have jumped to conclusions if they think the veto is based on constitutional scruples.

CONTINUE AT: [link to globalresearch.ca]

Last Edited by RoXY on 12/09/2011 12:20 AM
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Misreading the Fight over Military Detention: The Obama Regime Has No Constitutional Scruples - The amendment permits indefinite detention of US citizens by the US military
by Paul Craig Roberts
December 5, 2011

During an interview with RT on December 1, I said that the US Constitution had been shredded by the failure of the US Senate to protect American citizens from the detainee amendment sponsored by Republican John McCain and Democrat Carl Levin to the Defense Authorization Bill.

The amendment permits indefinite detention of US citizens by the US military. I also gave my opinion that the fact that all but two Republican members of the Senate had voted to strip American citizens of their constitutional protections and of the protection of the Posse Comitatus Act indicated that the Republican Party had degenerated into a Gestapo Party.

These conclusions are self-evident, and I stand by them.

However, I jumped to conclusions when I implied that the Obama regime opposes military detention on constitutional grounds.
Ray McGovern and Glenn Greenwald might have jumped to the same conclusions.

An article by Dahlia Lithwick in Slate reported that the entire Obama regime opposed the military detention provision in the McCain/Levin amendment. Lithwick wrote: “The secretary of defense, the director of national intelligence, the director of the FBI, the CIA director, and the head of the Justice Department’s national security division have all said that the indefinite detention provisions in the bill are a bad idea. And the White House continues to say that the president will veto the bill if the detainee provisions are not removed.”

I checked the URLs that Lithwick supplied. It is clear that the Obama regime objects to military detention, and I mistook this objection for constitutional scruples.

However, on further reflection I conclude that the Obama regime’s objection to military detention is not rooted in concern for the constitutional rights of American citizens. The regime objects to military detention because the implication of military detention is that detainees are prisoners of war. As Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin put it: Should somebody determined “to be a member of an enemy force who has come to this nation or is in this nation to attack us as a member of a foreign enemy, should that person be treated according to the laws of war? The answer is yes.”

CONTINUE AT: [link to globalresearch.ca]
Lets get it on!!
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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Roxy, just wanted to let you know that I think you awesome!

sideways
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Big Brother Banksters, Indefinite Detention Bill, and Bloombergs Corporate ARMY - THE NYPD



Anonymous Coward
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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Great post OP !! 5 stars *****rockon
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
S. 1867 National Defense Authorization Act Bill
Full Broadcast D2NWO.COM 2011-11-28


RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
ochange
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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Great catch, OP. Unfortunately, the average citizen might not dig deep enough to reveal the underlying truth.
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Great catch, OP. Unfortunately, the average citizen might not dig deep enough to reveal the underlying truth.
 Quoting: MrCharlest 1503437

The Better You Look, The More You See...

The 'Green Karma pin' limit (10) has been reached, otherwise I'd nailed it on the frontpage myself.
Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
that's a very good catch :)
5 stars :)

BUT....

since when does the united states follow the geneva thing?
we've broken that how many times now???
it was seem the geneva thing is meaningless.
🦋
Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
i found this link to an article that said "if war breaks out in US, geneva convention does not apply!"

[link to www.allvoices.com]

but then the article seems to be nothing about that whatsoever.

weird.

Last Edited by pink cat on 12/05/2011 07:00 PM
🦋
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
that's a very good catch :)
5 stars :)

BUT....

since when does the united states follow the geneva thing?
we've broken that how many times now???
it was seem the geneva thing is meaningless.
 Quoting: Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat


Not really, they don't want to hand their European NATO partners - or better, the European media - a stick to expose this scheme.

Better safe than sorry...
Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
that's a very good catch :)
5 stars :)

BUT....

since when does the united states follow the geneva thing?
we've broken that how many times now???
it was seem the geneva thing is meaningless.
 Quoting: Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat


Not really, they don't want to hand their European NATO partners - or better, the European media - a stick to expose this scheme.

Better safe than sorry...
 Quoting: RoXY


perhaps!
this is something worth looking into for sure.
thank you for your post.
🦋
Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
that's a very good catch :)
5 stars :)

BUT....

since when does the united states follow the geneva thing?
we've broken that how many times now???
it was seem the geneva thing is meaningless.
 Quoting: Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat


Not really, they don't want to hand their European NATO partners - or better, the European media - a stick to expose this scheme.

Better safe than sorry...
 Quoting: RoXY


so how do you think NATO would use this bill that obama wants vetoed to their advantage or disadvantage?
🦋
Royslist

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
good post, OP.

if you read the notes from the senate floor, the power to indefinite detainment (s.1031) already exists

Obama spoke clearly about his support for the Rule of Law to include indefinite detainment in 2009.

This bill is straight from Satan.

Obviously not holding my breath on that Veto
If the most important knowledge was shared openly with everyone it would surely be Vulgarized.

KNOW ENOUGH TO KNOW TO BE NOWHERE BUT NOW-HERE

"42" Fill your blood with Gold and let go of Black Metal
ISLANDIA

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
pinnablebump
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
that's a very good catch :)
5 stars :)

BUT....

since when does the united states follow the geneva thing?
we've broken that how many times now???
it was seem the geneva thing is meaningless.
 Quoting: Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat


Not really, they don't want to hand their European NATO partners - or better, the European media - a stick to expose this scheme.

Better safe than sorry...
 Quoting: RoXY


so how do you think NATO would use this bill that obama wants vetoed to their advantage or disadvantage?
 Quoting: Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat

In the first place it's a domestic matter...

"However, on further reflection I conclude that the Obama regime’s objection to military detention is not rooted in concern for the constitutional rights of American citizens. The regime objects to military detention because the implication of military detention is that detainees are prisoners of war. As Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin put it: Should somebody determined “to be a member of an enemy force who has come to this nation or is in this nation to attack us as a member of a foreign enemy, should that person be treated according to the laws of war? The answer is yes.” "

Last Edited by RoXY on 12/05/2011 07:10 PM
Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
maybe the lawyers are all getting in a fuss over "unlawful combatant"

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

they use that term in the geneva convention.
that's a term which has some slippery meanings lately.

kind of like how it depends on what you think the definition of "is" is. (remember clinton said that?)

lawyers.
crazy ass lawyers.
🦋
Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat

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12/05/2011 07:13 PM
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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
that's a very good catch :)
5 stars :)

BUT....

since when does the united states follow the geneva thing?
we've broken that how many times now???
it was seem the geneva thing is meaningless.
 Quoting: Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat


Not really, they don't want to hand their European NATO partners - or better, the European media - a stick to expose this scheme.

Better safe than sorry...
 Quoting: RoXY


so how do you think NATO would use this bill that obama wants vetoed to their advantage or disadvantage?
 Quoting: Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat

In the first place it's a domestic matter...

"However, on further reflection I conclude that the Obama regime’s objection to military detention is not rooted in concern for the constitutional rights of American citizens. The regime objects to military detention because the implication of military detention is that detainees are prisoners of war. As Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin put it: Should somebody determined “to be a member of an enemy force who has come to this nation or is in this nation to attack us as a member of a foreign enemy, should that person be treated according to the laws of war? The answer is yes.” "
 Quoting: RoXY


i'll bet Bradley Manning would have a lot to say about this.
🦋
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto the Indefinite Detention Bill (Hint: It’s Not to Protect Liberty)
by Washington's Blog
December 5, 2011

Obama Wants to Veto the Indefinite Detention Bill Because It Would Hold the U.S. to the Geneva Convention

I – like everyone else – am horrified by the Senate’s passage of legislation that would allow for indefinite detention of Americans.

And at first, I – like many others – assumed that Obama’s threat to veto the bill might be a good thing. But the truth is much more disturbing.

As former Wall Street Street editor and columnist Paul Craig Roberts correctly notes:

The Obama regime’s objection to military detention is not rooted in concern for the constitutional rights of American citizens. The regime objects to military detention because the implication of military detention is that detainees are prisoners of war. As Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin put it: Should somebody determined “to be a member of an enemy force who has come to this nation or is in this nation to attack us as a member of a foreign enemy, should that person be treated according to the laws of war? The answer is yes.”

Detainees treated according to the laws of war have the protections of the Geneva Conventions. They cannot be tortured. The Obama regime opposes military detention, because detainees would have some rights. These rights would interfere with the regime’s ability to send detainees to CIA torture prisons overseas. [Yes, Obama is still apparently allowing "extraordinary renditions" to torture people abroad.] This is what the Obama regime means when it says that the requirement of military detention denies the regime “flexibility.”

The Bush/Obama regimes have evaded the Geneva Conventions by declaring that detainees are not POWs, but “enemy combatants,” “terrorists,” or some other designation that removes all accountability from the US government for their treatment.

By requiring military detention of the captured, Congress is undoing all the maneuvering that two regimes have accomplished in removing POW status from detainees.

A careful reading of the Obama regime’s objections to military detention supports this conclusion. (See [link to www.whitehouse.gov]

The November 17 letter to the Senate from the Executive Office of the President says that the Obama regime does not want the authority it has under the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Public Law 107-40, to be codified. Codification is risky, the regime says. “After a decade of settled jurisprudence on detention authority, Congress must be careful not to open a whole new series of legal questions that will distract from our efforts to protect the country.”

In other words, the regime is saying that under AUMF the executive branch has total discretion as to who it detains and how it treats detainees. Moreover, as the executive branch has total discretion, no one can find out what the executive branch is doing, who detainees are, or what is being done to them. Codification brings accountability, and the executive branch does not want accountability.

Those who see hope in Obama’s threatened veto have jumped to conclusions if they think the veto is based on constitutional scruples.

CONTINUE AT: [link to globalresearch.ca]
 Quoting: RoXY

Tango

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12/05/2011 07:37 PM
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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Great Post Op.. 5 *
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Thanx, Tango!

Misreading the Fight over Military Detention: The Obama Regime Has No Constitutional Scruples - The amendment permits indefinite detention of US citizens by the US military
by Paul Craig Roberts
December 5, 2011

During an interview with RT on December 1, I said that the US Constitution had been shredded by the failure of the US Senate to protect American citizens from the detainee amendment sponsored by Republican John McCain and Democrat Carl Levin to the Defense Authorization Bill.

The amendment permits indefinite detention of US citizens by the US military. I also gave my opinion that the fact that all but two Republican members of the Senate had voted to strip American citizens of their constitutional protections and of the protection of the Posse Comitatus Act indicated that the Republican Party had degenerated into a Gestapo Party.

These conclusions are self-evident, and I stand by them.

However, I jumped to conclusions when I implied that the Obama regime opposes military detention on constitutional grounds.
Ray McGovern and Glenn Greenwald might have jumped to the same conclusions.

An article by Dahlia Lithwick in Slate reported that the entire Obama regime opposed the military detention provision in the McCain/Levin amendment. Lithwick wrote: “The secretary of defense, the director of national intelligence, the director of the FBI, the CIA director, and the head of the Justice Department’s national security division have all said that the indefinite detention provisions in the bill are a bad idea. And the White House continues to say that the president will veto the bill if the detainee provisions are not removed.”

I checked the URLs that Lithwick supplied. It is clear that the Obama regime objects to military detention, and I mistook this objection for constitutional scruples.

However, on further reflection I conclude that the Obama regime’s objection to military detention is not rooted in concern for the constitutional rights of American citizens. The regime objects to military detention because the implication of military detention is that detainees are prisoners of war. As Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin put it: Should somebody determined “to be a member of an enemy force who has come to this nation or is in this nation to attack us as a member of a foreign enemy, should that person be treated according to the laws of war? The answer is yes.”

CONTINUE AT: [link to globalresearch.ca]
 Quoting: RoXY

RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
hiding
RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
S. 1867 National Defense Authorization Act Bill
Full Broadcast D2NWO.COM 2011-11-28


 Quoting: RoXY

RoXY  (OP)

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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Thanx for your stars & green karma... Very encouraging!

Last Edited by RoXY on 12/05/2011 09:34 PM
Anonymous Coward
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12/05/2011 10:21 PM
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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
Big Brother Banksters, Indefinite Detention Bill, and Bloombergs Corporate ARMY - THE NYPD



 Quoting: RoXY


a must watch
GodFrequency

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12/05/2011 10:32 PM
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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
It's time to take it back.

It's time to live each day forth as if we are Americans, as if we are free. There are no laws that should be obeyed that are unconstitutional.

Laws are mere figments of your imagination, created to rule your mind, your soul, and your spirit. They are nothing but words written on paper.

Let's put it another way, it was once law that you could own a human being, and use him or her as if they were farm equipment.

The word law seems to be a very powerful word in controlling human behavior.

They are wanting to pass laws to tax the air you breathe, the water you drink, will you follow blindly?

They've passed laws that you must buy health care from a private individual, do you listen?

There is a law in effect that says you can't grow food and sell it to your neighbor, are you obeying?

There is a law that says no raw milk, or that you can't make cheese the way they have done for thousands of years, are you compliant?

What about the law that is the 16th amendment that sold our country to a private banking cartel? It is the law.

The law that states that General Electric pays nothing in taxes, while you slave your life away only to have your pensions and social security stolen.

Let's put it one more way, if you are an American citizen there are probably a dozen laws that you wake up and violate every single day. You are according the laws on the books already an outlaw in the land of the free, and the home of the brave.

Laws? Where is the law that locked up Eric Holder for selling guns to Mexican drug cartels?

Drugs are illegal, where are the laws that have locked up those in our GOvernment growing Poppy in Afghanistan?

Laws do not apply to the TSA who can fondle people in public areas, and strip search granny.

Laws do not apply to Corzine, and his theft of billions at MF global.

Laws do not apply to JP Morgan and their manipulation of the silver and gold industry in order to protect their currency.

The laws do not apply even when it comes to waging war an illegal war with Libya!

Laws do not apply whenever it comes to the President of the United States presenting a photoshoped birth certificate.



No my fellow American, the laws are written for one purpose. Control, taxation, and the ownership of you and your children.

LAW?

We are nation of laws, ruled by outlaws!

Last Edited by GodFrequency on 12/05/2011 10:45 PM
AuthorAuthor

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12/05/2011 10:39 PM
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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
It's still a good thing if Obama vetoes the bill. Not sure what the house vote was - maybe it's veto proof.

With the bill, Obama has the ability to have anyone arrested with no requirement to tell family members where the person is.

It's tyranny.
Seymour Brenner's, MD, FACR, opinion regarding Dr. Emanuel Revici: "As a Diplomate of Radiology, I have reviewed many cases of incurable cancer that Revici has cured."
RoXY  (OP)

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The Constitution Is Dead: The Gradual Transition towards an Orwellian Police State - Americans denied their First and Third amendment rights...
by Devon DB
December 3, 2011

Many in America still believe that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and that politicians, both Republican and Democrat alike, still hold that view and ensure that any and all legislation passed does not violate it. However, in today’s America, the Constitution is effectively a null and void document, nothing more than a symbol politicians pay lip service to.

The destruction of the Constitution began soon after 9/11 when the Patriot Act was pushed through Congress. In the heat of the moment it seemed as if the legislation was meant to protect us from terrorism, however it was later revealed that certain provisions blatantly violated the First, Fourth, and Sixth Amendments. [1] Interestingly enough, however, this didn’t stop the Senate from to extending the Patriot Act earlier this year [2]. In doing this, the government revealed just how much they respect the Constitution.

CONTINUE AT: [link to www.globalresearch.ca]

RoXY  (OP)

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'60 Minutes' Blows The Lid Off Congressional Insider Trading



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Re: WTF NEWS # The Indefinite Detention Bill - The Real Reason for Obama’s Threat to Veto It
5* and a bump





GLP