Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 2,146 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 1,756,668
Pageviews Today: 2,430,235Threads Today: 598Posts Today: 11,201
06:49 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1

 
IGASOP
Offer Upgrade

User ID: 136177
United States
12/19/2006 12:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Don't shoot me... just the messenger... I didn't write it.

By: "The Author" (unknown)

Pt. 1:

This writing seeks to educate men about the realities of what he may be getting himself into when he marries. An informed decision is less likely to be one that is later regretted. The intent is not to dissuade men from marrying, but to encourage them in communicating frankly their concerns and expectations of marriage with their potential spouses. The aim of this writing is to also enlighten women with some of the reasons why increasing numbers of successful eligible unmarried men, who otherwise prefer monogamous long-term relationships, are turning their backs on marriage.

Society automatically paints a stereotype on men who hesitate, delay, or elect not to marry. They are labelled as:
a) womanizers who are unable to participate in a long term relationship, or
b) Selfish/childish/irresponsible men who can not take care of themselves or another person.
No other explanation is ever explored.

The cost of proclaiming your undying love
(aka: The tip of the iceberg)

Except in professional sports and presidential elections, women are given the same educational and professional career opportunities as men. Also, contrary to feminist propaganda, women do indeed get paid the same salary as men, given they are willing to work the same types of jobs as men, and work as many hours as their male counterpart. Despite this reality, many women come into a marriage with very little assets, and often, are saddled with substantial debt. In general, men are the ones who save and invest. (Don't believe me? Count the number of women of marrying age you know who subscribe to Fortune, Forbes, or Money magazine) A significant number of 20 and 30-something women spend most of their disposable income on luxury rental apartments, upscale restaurants, frequent exotic vacations, leased cars, spa treatments, and excessive amounts of clothing, purses, shoes, etc. Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly. (Yet ironically, in the media, men are the ones who are portrayed as reckless, irresponsible spendthrifts)

** Disclaimer: For the purposes of this essay, I will be generalizing about the potential circumstances and gender roles that can plague men in today's modern marriage. What is the exception and what it the rule is open to debate. Certainly not all (or perhaps even most?) marriages end up as described. However, the aim is to simply educate men of some of the potential outcomes that exist for today's marriage and divorce.


When marriage enters the picture, double standards and financial imbalances leave responsible men to pick up the slack. (And also fix the mess she may have made). For starters, men are forced (yes, forced) to spend their hard earned savings (or take a loan) on a diamond ring. Women justify this relatively nascent ritual (spawned by a brilliant 1940's mass-brainwashing campaign launched by DeBeers) by insisting a man wants to buy her a diamond. That it makes a man proud to proclaim his love and affection this way. Granted, some men may be this way, but there are plenty who seek a lifelong partnership and commitment, yet have no interest in buying diamonds. What choice do these men have? None! To many young men, the ring/wedding is a unwelcome landmine in their journey towards adult financial stability. To add insult to injury, (a recurring theme in marriage, as you will see), the man is now locked into a lifetime of insurance payments for this grossly overpriced jewelry. (Contrary to popular belief, diamonds are not rare, but their supply has been artificially manipulated) Some men are more concerned with realizing their dream of owning a home, and/or becoming financially stable enough to begin a family. Men worry about these matters, because, ultimately, it becomes their responsibility as well.

This just portends the things to come. Immediately after buying a ring, the man may be rewarded with demands of financing all or part of a lavish wedding.... (Depending on the size of his bank account.) The costs of today's weddings exceed that of a house down payment. (Or in certain parts of the country, the house itself) If a man enters a marriage having saved up a down payment for his dream home, it can suddenly be snatched from right from under him. Many men may object to spending this sum of money on a one-day party. (Or spending a year of their life planning it, when they could use the same time to further their career or education) However, what a man wants is really not of any concern. Non-negotiable. A wedding is no longer for the bride and groom. As today's Bridezilla gleefully reminds you, "This is MY day". (Which ostensibly, gives her carte blanche to become selfish, irresponsible, and childlike) Are all women like this? Not at all. Could this be your future wife? Possibly. A man who balks at spending his entire life savings (or going into debt for) a ring & wedding & exotic 5-star honeymoon can be labeled a selfish cheapskate or not a "real man". (Meanwhile, what exactly constitutes a "real woman"?) In fact, if a woman leaves a man for suggesting they try to keep their costs under control, she would have full support from everyone around her. "She can do better than that"...."Clearly, he doesn't love her"..... etc. This is a sign of good self-esteem, and that she won't settle for anything less. Yet, in the same breath of this sense of entitlement, women proudly proclaim how equal & independent they are. However, can you imagine if a man demanded equal treatment? For example, demanding the woman buy him a boat, and a 2 week bear hunt in Siberia as a condition of marriage? This would be viewed as absurd, yet women do it every day. Marriage is a partnership, right? Please read on, my friend.

The injustices can go from bad to worse when children enter the picture. If the man can afford to carry the entire financial burden, the woman can elect to stop working. (Regardless of how the man may feel about the decision) The day the woman stops working is the day all of her past financial baggage unequivocally gets thrown onto the man's head. If the woman has racked up credit card debts, these are now his payments. If the woman has not bothered to pay off her student loans, these also become the man's responsibility. (Stomach-churning irony = the man is stuck paying for her degree, and she's not even working anymore!!) And can the man object? Can he say, "No, you made your mess, and it should not be my job to clean it up. You knew you wanted kids even before you met me, and you should have planned ahead." No, the payments can't be deferred until she is once again able to continue repaying them herself (Besides, that day may never come) Not if he wants to retain a clean credit rating to get a loan for their dream home. If he even suggested that she return to work to pay off her own debts, he would be chastised as bad father, endangering the welfare of his newborn. So, the responsible husband now compensates for the mother's freewheeling irresponsible past, and pays off all her debts. In yet another sick twist of irony, the husband may be paying off credit cards used to finance vacations and xmas gifts shared with previous boyfriends, etc. Buyer beware! This is the reward for today's man who works hard, makes sacrifices, plans ahead, and invests wisely. Again, this doesn't always happen. But by getting married, the man is certainly susceptible to being railroaded into this situation, because it is completely acceptable within today's accepted gender roles. Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly.

Marriage can mean career slavery
(aka: A good paycheck can mean career slavery)

Anyone who says "Slavery is dead" clearly has not contemplated the predicament of many American fathers. Webster's defines slavery as "the state of being under the control of another person." If the husband earns enough to support both of them, he would be hard pressed to make an argument to preserve equality, and have her continue working as he does. If the wife decides to stop working, the men who have been left holding the financial bag find their options limited. They may find themselves stuck in careers they hate, or working for abusive exploitative management, working excessively long hours, working in jobs that are physically threatening, that have no growth potential, enduring prolonged commutes, etc. At this point, considering the corner he's been painted into, he is often powerless to affect any change in his own life. A husband may have been harboring delusions that once the wife was able to return to work, he would gain some flexibility to rectify some of the shortcomings in his own career (For example, changing careers or accepting a lower salary at a different firm, in exchange for better hours, shorter commute, and/or more fulfilling work, etc) But, a distinct reality is that he will continue to shoulder the financial responsibilities alone....A man's reward for working hard and getting ahead is to become trapped into his career, and shoulder the financial burdens of a family alone. Does it pay to work hard anymore?

If she stops working, she may never work again.
(aka: Caveat Emptor)

There are many debates about the merits of a stay-at-home mother vs. a working mother. My goal here is to simply educate the man on the unseen risks he is taking when he agrees to accept 100% of the financial burden to allow his wife to stay at home. Again, an informed decision is less likely to be one that is later regretted.


Every parent will agree that staying home with a child is back-breaking (and often mind-numbing) labor. Many new fathers will concede that it is much easier to go to work than to stay at home with several children. However, the greatest imbalance in efforts and contributions to a marriage can manifest once all the children are of school age. The house is now empty from 8am-3pm. The wife has 7 hours to herself, while the kids are at school, and the husband is at work. After a few years of hard work at home, many wives may feel entitled to "kick back." The good husband however, has worked those same years, has done his 50/50 of the housework, and is still working to support the family once the kids are in school. He is rarely afforded the same option to scale back his daytime efforts.

What motivation does the modern wife have to return to work? Very little. For several years now, the man's salary has been enough to live on. (Otherwise, she would have been working) Unless tight finances dictate that she must return to work, the husband really has little say in this matter. The wife can hide behind many different excuses in order not to work, despite having little to do from 7am-3pm:

"I'm busy with the housework"
It is easy to exaggerate the labors of daily housework. Yet, how long does it take to throw clothes into the wash, and remove them later? Vacuuming can be done in 1 hour a week. Grocery is another hour per week. A decent meal can be prepared in under an hour. Does all this add up to 7 hours a day? Note: This lie is not as persuasive as it may have been in the past, b/c in an age of later marriage, many men are already experienced in cooking & cleaning, and know what kind of effort it entails. (Note that not every stay-at-home-wife even does all these things.)

"I can't find a job"
She has been out of work too long, and therefore is unable to find a job. This may be true, but many men do not consider this risk when they agree to support her while she "temporarily' stops working. (Hopefully, now they will, and can make a more informed decision) Also, many wives may use this as a scapegoat to conveniently not even bother looking for any job. (Below, I describe how this can even be used against the husband in the event of divorce)

"It doesn't pay for me to work"
In the shortrun, the expenses of work (gas, lunch, clothes) may not make it worthwhile for her to go back to work. This may be true, but does this justify her playing tennis, while the husband toils away? Many couples may be too shortsighted on this matter. Initially, the cost/benefit numbers may not be ideal, but her returning to work will improve her job skills and network of contacts. (More so than strolling through the local mall every afternoon) Over time, as her career gets back on track, and she becomes qualified for better jobs, her salary should also improve.

It should be duly noted that some working wives view their salary as "personal spending money", and still expect the man to pay all or most of the bills. (What's mine is mine, and what's yours is ours.) Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly.

Even more unfair double standards that favor wives

Cheating.
If a married man cheats, he's the scum of the earth.A selfish jerk who has jeopardized the family unit. However, when the woman cheats, she's conveniently portrayed as the victim. Poor thing. It's for her empowerment, or to help her self-esteem. Worse yet, her cheating can be the man's fault. How? He doesn't compliment her like her new man does. Or he works too much. (Yes, the man who is scrambling to pay the mortgage and cars she may have demanded is now considered negligent. The man who may be working 2 jobs to allow her to be home with her kids is now considered negligent)

When a woman cheats, the first thing people ask is what he did (or didn't do) to drive her into the arms of another man.
When a man cheats, no one ever asks the same question.

When a woman cheats, sometimes the reaction can be, "Oh, poor thing, I guess her husband wasn't delivering in the bedroom".
However, if a man cheats, no one ever stops to think...."Oh poor fella, his wife was horrible in bed."

Also, if a man happens to leave his wife for a younger woman, it is automatically assumed that he is a shallow sex maniac whose only motivation was to be with a younger woman. If his wife was lazy, or a reckless spendthrift, or verbally or physically abusive, or became grossly overweight, or was an incompetent mother, those realities are totally ignored. Ostensibly, the only reason a man leaves his wife is to be with a younger, more attractive woman. (Never mind if she is a better match for him) Because apparently, that's the only factor that motivates these Neanderthals.

Prenups
If a man insists on a prenup, he is selfish and unromantic. However, when is the last time a woman who demanded a prenup was called "unromantic"? On the contrary, if a woman requests a prenup, she is fiscally responsible and looking out for herself. (Note: If your fiancée refuses to sign a prenup, she has just shown her hand...) Why is it that a woman can refuse a prenup, and it's accepted. In reality, the man should be outraged that she is after a legal contract, and not love.

What is astounding is the hypocrisy of the reaction towards prenups. Women can conveniently assert that a man is unromantic if he suggests a prenup. After all, how can a man pollute true love with signing of legal paperwork! However, what is a marriage contract? Women do not seem to balk at signing this legal paperwork, which entitles her to at least half the money a man earns, and obligates him to support her if the event of a breakup. Why aren't men allowed to note how unromantic this contract is? The distraction of bridal magazines, selection of dinner napkins, churches, wedding dresses, receptions, wedding showers, and honeymoons have clouded the legal reality of what men are getting themselves into. Marriage is as much an unromantic legal contract as a prenuptial agreement is.

Ironically, prenups were devised as a way to protect women. Nuptial agreements were popularized in the 19th century, mostly to protect heiresses from marrying men who were "out for their money." Until the Married Women's Property Act of 1848, a woman's property, upon marriage, was transferred to her husband. (Correct, )

"Stupid, Irresponsible" Men
Men are severely abused in our media, quite frankly. Just watch TV commercials/sitcoms and see how many reflect men as idiots. (If they had commercials like that about women, people would have a fit.) If it wasn't for their wives they would be lost "animals". Other commercials who make it appear that men act without thinking, impulsively and irrationally, and the wife is the brains of the family, which in reality is not always true. Even many women will agree, women often are the ones who act on emotions, and make judgment solely based on emotional attachments, rather then logic and reason. Almost every "couples budgeting" article will portray the woman as the one who has to rein in the man's childish spending.

Job Loss
If a husband loses his job and is having trouble finding work, the wife is justified in threatening to leave him. However, can you imagine the reaction if a husband threatened to leave a wife who was in the exact same position?? He would be crucified! If a man loses his job, the woman is justified in resenting the fact that the financial burden lies on her. However, when is a man allowed to resent this very same predicament? If a man is laid off and cares for the household/kids, while the wife is working, he can be accused of not pulling his weight! Yet this is exactly the same situation that women demand more recognition for!! Either role the man plays, he loses!

Traditional Roles
It's perfectly acceptable for a woman to demand a man make a certain salary, to be deemed "marriage material", and provide stability. Likewise, if a man demands the wife do the cooking/cleaning, he can now be labeled a sexist misogynist. If he asks her to carry her weight financially (just like he does), he can be criticized as an inadequate provider. What exactly deems a woman "marriage material"?

To top it off, some women have gotten so pampered that they not only quit their jobs the day they find out they are pregnant, but they hire as many nannys as their husband can afford. Yes, some wives stay at home, and hire someone else to raise the kids and clean up, while they drink lattes and go shopping all day with other pampered "stay-at-home" mothers. This is not all women, but certainly the odds increase if the man can afford it. Does it pay to work hard and get ahead anymore, if this is how your hard earned money is squandered?

Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly. The concept of the pampered wife is relatively new. America was primarily an agricultural economy even up into the 1920's. American wives contributed to the well being of the household by helping on the farm. A man needed a wife as an equal partner. It was not until the 1950's that the first generation of American wives began to emerge as dead weight. Perhaps this coincides with the spiking of the divorce rate in America. Perhaps men have become tired of giving so much, while getting so little in exchange.

Divorce
(aka: License to Steal)


50% of American marriages end in divorce, and 70% of these divorces are initiaited by women. All men should consult an attorney before marrying, and understand the implications of divorce, b/c they may participate in one whether they like it not.

Upon divorce, all assets accumulated during a marriage are subject to division. Even if the woman has not worked in years, and instead, has spent the last few years shopping and lunching from 7am-3pm, she is entitled to half of everything the man worked for during the course of the marriage. Is this fair? How many people would ever accept a job offer that stipulated that in the event of resignation, you would have to return 50% of every dime you were ever paid? No one in his or her right mind. Yet, men unknowingly agree to the exact same insanity when they sign their marriage contract!

"Assets accumulated prior to a marriage are exempt from a divorce." Yes, in theory. However, real life dictates otherwise. If funds from an account are commingled, it can become marital property. If even a dime from an account is spent towards the marriage, it can be considered marital property. Buy your child a lollypop from your own account, and a good lawyer will take 1/2 of it for your ex-wife when you divorce. If a woman moves into a home the man owned prior to the marriage, it is not safe from divorce. If she so much as hangs up a sheet of wallpaper, the home is now classified as marital property, and is subject to equal division. (Worse actually, the man can be ejected from the home) Is this fair?

Note: "equal division" is also somewhat a misnomer. Often, she can get upwards of 70% of assets, while the man gets the majority of the debts!! This, of course, is his reward for working so hard all these years. He can afford it, she can't b/c she was not working.

If you pamper your wife, it can be used against you
(aka: No good deed goes unpunished)

Imagine yourself giving a homeless man a sandwich. A generous act, indeed. Now imagine your reaction if the homeless man sues you in court! The judge orders you to keep feeding the homeless man sandwiches, indefinitely, because he has become accustomed to your support!! This would be categorically absurd, yet this happens to men in divorce court every day. Instead of thanking you for paying her bills for all those years, you get the reward of legally having to keep paying her bills! Remember folks: No good deed goes unpunished.


After having children, many women demand to quit working and stay home. Before kids, many of these women may have been in careers they hated, working long hours, and enduring long commutes. It is the man's generosity and dedication to his own career that allows her to walk away from her hers. During a marriage, a man with a stay-at-home wife might work himself to the bone in order to support her. He will pay the mortgage, property tax, grocery bill, phone bill, cable bill, and electric bill. He also pays for her car, the gas money, clothes, and vacations.

As a slap in the face, the man can be punished for working hard enough to allow his wife the have the luxury of staying home with the kids. As noted above, after the children are in school, the wife may enjoy a life of leisure that is afforded to her by her man's hard work. In event of divorce, he can be legally obligated to support her for years to come. Because she stopped working and led a life of leisure, the ex-husband is now responsible for supporting her!! History has a tendency of rewriting itself. Originally, a woman may have had a career that she may have hated, and was begging to leave. (In fact, that partially may have been her motivation to have kids in the first place.) But now, in her eyes (or her lawyer's eyes), she "gave up" her career for the man and his kids. His gift now becomes her sacrifice! Or, the story goes that he was threatened by her having her own career, and forced her to quit and stay home with the children. (How many men do you personally know that are upset at having a wife that earns a good living?) Many of these misleading stereotypes still run rampant in our society, and are routinely used to the woman's advantage during a divorce. As a result of her not working, regardless of whether she was minding the home or not, she remains a liability.

Generous, caring men who spoil their wives should certainly think twice about how this generosity can later be used against them. The phrase used in divorce court is "She has become accustomed to a certain lifestyle". A husband's reward for spoiling his wife today is the legal obligation to spoil her indefinitely. Buy her a luxury car today, and you may be obligated to buy her luxury cars after she leaves for you for another man! Yet...imagine a husband that became accustomed to eating a home cooked dinner prepared by his wife. Now imagine the courts obligate the ex-wife to continue cooking for him and his new girlfriend each night, despite being divorced! Inconceivable, but it happens the other way around every day!

The ultimate insult, however, comes when the man loses half of his life's assets even when she has decided to leave him. Yes, a wife can kick a man out of his own home, and have the courts force him to continue paying the bills, while she is sleeping with her new boyfriend in the very house the husband worked to buy! She can spend her alimony check on gifts for her new boyfriend! Are all women like this? No. Does the legal system support a woman who does feel entitled to this? Yes.


The risks are clear, but what exactly are men getting out of marriage? Many times, the reasons men get married are unfounded.

All the "classic" reasons why a man gets married are a myth.
(aka: Don't believe the hype)

"I won't die alone"
Wrong. The simple fact is, that one spouse WILL die alone. (Unless you both die simultaneously in a car accident.) Your spouse may die 15 years before you. Or you may be on a hospital bed for your last year. Yes, you may get visitors, but they aren't having the same thoughts as you are. You're contemplating your mortality, while they're wondering what pizza toppings the hospital cafeteria offers. Ultimately, we all die alone. Married or not.
AC
User ID: 160123
United States
12/19/2006 01:15 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Sounds good to me if men boycott marriage.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 157750
United States
12/19/2006 01:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Well thought out & comprehensive essay. Thanks OP.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 171535
United States
12/19/2006 01:49 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Amen, brother! applause

I was married, and DID divorce.

I feel lucky as hell that my "education" was not financially devastating for me. VERY lucky.

#1, my wife worked and made as much as I did. No alimony!
#2, our child was HER child - from a previous marriage. No child support!
#3, our house became HER house, willingly by me - but she had to PAY ME for it, purchase my equity.

I walked away from marriage after two short years with a healthy chunk of cash in my pocket, thanks to the housing boom... and with a very healthy education.

I'm not going to say I agree with everything here, and nor do I feel jaded by my experience.

But the gist of the article is BE CAREFUL, and I couldn't agree more. I am scared to get into a deeply loving relationship again, because I have seen firsthand how quickly something that seems like heaven can go downhill and be over just like that. Truly sad, but in the end it is like everything in life - learn your lessons from it, whatever they may be, and keep trudging ahead. Try not to look back and regret. Look forward without carrying a chip or a burden. Live life, but be aware of the traps that you can blunder into...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 169640
United States
12/19/2006 02:44 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Marriage has been denigrated by the people themselves by not having enough insight to knowing themselves, and then...buying into the MEDIA brainwashing.

All this and MORE can be righted IF people take their heads out'a their vain asses.

'Do unto others as you would have them do unto You'.
(wise, wise words of wisdom)

wave
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 141124
United States
12/19/2006 04:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Almost all of the arguments are new,some are not.
Any argument about work or debt has really only existed since
the 60's and the advent of birth control.

The wedding at one time was the only power the woman had.

Throughout history women were given dowries of cash,land,animals ect,and in many cases were the ones who financed the mans enterprise.

The engagement ring was a sign to prospective in-laws that you had the means to support the woman and she would not be moving down in life.

Women have always been the nurturer and care taker of the family.She birthed,cared for and taught the next generation,also fed her family.She also made and repaired all the clothes.There were no department stores.


It has been a 100 years or so since the invention of the automatic washing machine and even less for home dryers.

Cooking a good meal can take less than an hour but a true family meal takes longer than an hour,how about a nice roast beef?
Did I mention baking bread.all day

So "The Author" (unknown)only shows how our culture has not kept pace with our tech advances,Also the shallowness of the western mind.

where family was the most important thing,
now all we have is a bunch of whiners who want it all but do not want to share
Single kids being raised in single parent households,a generation of self absorbed,self-important whiners.
A Woman
User ID: 171617
India
12/19/2006 04:47 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
I guess I'll be the first woman to reply to this....

I agree, men usually lose more in a divorce than a woman, however a woman loses much more in a marriage.

When a woman marries, her world begins to revolve around her husband. As time passes, it gets worse and worse, eventually, he is her life.

She puts in an eight hour day (or more) then comes home and instead of eating a sandwich, or a can of soup, she has to cook supper. Instead of picking her apartment/house as she goes, she has to pick up after her husband. Instead of doing one load of laundry a day, she now has two. (You men may not think that sounds like much, but how many of you actually look foward to coming home to outside chores every night?)

When she's grocery shopping,(as stated above 1 hour-yea, OK, whatever!) she has to consider what her husband likes instead of herself, and most would buy what he likes before what she likes. (It's called marriage)

When she's shopping for clothes, she will buy what she thinks her husband would like to see her in, instead of buying what she really wants to.

The hair, nails, and makeup are mostly for the husband's benefit. (We want to look good for our husbands.)

When she buys for the house, she won't buy things he won't like, and if she does,(unless he just has really bad taste) it will be returned.

Is anyone else seeing a pattern here yet?

When the children arrive, she loses even more, if that's possible. Not only is what's listed above expected for her husband now, most of it is required for the children.

Now comes the decision of whether or not to continue to work. (BTW, I know of no woman that would quit her job to stay at home with the kids without first consulting her husband.)

If she continues to work, the duties at work and at home will evetually increase to the point that she runs the risk of having a nervous breakdown.

If THEY decide she should quit, then what her husband expects of her increases. She gets up with him in the morning, to get him off to work, and she's at the door to greet him when he returns. Not to mention feeding the baby every two hours for at least the first three months, doing laundry, doing dishes, cleaning, and the endless work that a baby brings, and that's added to the responsibilities of taking care of her husband.

Now fast forward 7 years: She now has a 7 year old, a 5 year old, and a 18 month old.

Because she doesn't work, hubby has to work all he can to make ends meet. Then when he comes home, there are the outside chores that need tending. By the time he's done with those, it's time for supper. While he's working, at work and outside, she's cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, changing diapers, shopping, supervising baths, supervising homework, answering phones, wiping faces and little finger prints off the french doors, sewing things that need it, and don't forget taking the the kids to school and picking them up, and running the errands. Sometimes, trying to do all at once. That's all in good day. God forbid anyone gets sick, especially her.

In the midst of all this chaos, she is also still expected to maintain herself so that hubby still finds her sexually attractive, if he doesn't, well then you might as well find a lawyer now. It is proven fact that men think about sex every 33 secs. Now show me a woman who can do all that, and I'll show you superwoman.

Men still go out with the guys, because they need a 'break'. They go fishing, hunting, golfing, etc. What about her? She doesn't get any outside conversation. Her conversations throughout the day revolve around her children. the only contact she has with the outside world is the lady at the bank drivethru, or the lady at the checkout counter at the store. When\if they get an evening alone, he's too tired to take her out, and that's what she needs more than anything. A woman has to ask her husband to babysit for the kids before she goes to do anything without the them. (Can anyone explain that to me? Why a woman has to ask a father to BABYSIT his own kids?)

Don't forget the changes in attitude wives go through,(that's where the 'I don't know you anymore' comes in) when hubby is standing behind her with his hands on his hips behind while she is giving someone down the road, it tends to detract from her ability to handle herself.

Now I know not all marriages are like what I just posted, just as you guys should know that very few marriages are like what the original post leads one to believe.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 171618
United States
12/19/2006 04:49 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Oh so you men who are the whiner type who still think women should be your slaves and hate any women who refuses are still here huh?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 145066
United States
12/19/2006 05:34 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
I knew marriage was generally depressing, and even horrifying, after the initial glow wore off.

I'm seriously glad to be a never-married, middle-aged man.

I don't have an iota of paternal feeling in me, so would have been a lousy dad. I've never liked kids, even when I was one!lol

And, it seems to me, having kids is about the only reasonable excuse for getting married and staying married (no matter how bad it becomes) in this day and age.

I admire the married couples who hate each other, yet toughed it out for the sake of their children.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 170580
Australia
12/19/2006 09:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Just don't get married if you don't like the idea.

It's an imaginary binding agreement, and both persons imagination differs in each mind of the two bound individuals, their families, the media and society, which is constantly changing.

The whole of this structured world called civilization is made up. Money is made up, the education system is made up, dogas, rituals, traditions are all made up.

Get over it. Don't analylize shit that is made up.
You all agreed to abide by the rules and laws and words on pieces of paper which are all made up and you continue to do so, so stop bitching about doing things you have chosen to aggree to do.

I choose to bitch.
Ok then, continue to do so, have a nice day.

Eventually . . . you'll see it for what it really is.



pope
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 168855
United States
12/19/2006 10:03 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
i truley envy those in a happy marriage. i never could do it right. tried twice.

grouphug
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 168855
United States
12/19/2006 10:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
I guess I'll be the first woman to reply to this....

I agree, men usually lose more in a divorce than a woman, however a woman loses much more in a marriage.

When a woman marries, her world begins to revolve around her husband. As time passes, it gets worse and worse, eventually, he is her life.

She puts in an eight hour day (or more) then comes home and instead of eating a sandwich, or a can of soup, she has to cook supper. Instead of picking her apartment/house as she goes, she has to pick up after her husband. Instead of doing one load of laundry a day, she now has two. (You men may not think that sounds like much, but how many of you actually look foward to coming home to outside chores every night?)

When she's grocery shopping,(as stated above 1 hour-yea, OK, whatever!) she has to consider what her husband likes instead of herself, and most would buy what he likes before what she likes. (It's called marriage)

When she's shopping for clothes, she will buy what she thinks her husband would like to see her in, instead of buying what she really wants to.

The hair, nails, and makeup are mostly for the husband's benefit. (We want to look good for our husbands.)

When she buys for the house, she won't buy things he won't like, and if she does,(unless he just has really bad taste) it will be returned.

Is anyone else seeing a pattern here yet?

When the children arrive, she loses even more, if that's possible. Not only is what's listed above expected for her husband now, most of it is required for the children.

Now comes the decision of whether or not to continue to work. (BTW, I know of no woman that would quit her job to stay at home with the kids without first consulting her husband.)

If she continues to work, the duties at work and at home will evetually increase to the point that she runs the risk of having a nervous breakdown.

If THEY decide she should quit, then what her husband expects of her increases. She gets up with him in the morning, to get him off to work, and she's at the door to greet him when he returns. Not to mention feeding the baby every two hours for at least the first three months, doing laundry, doing dishes, cleaning, and the endless work that a baby brings, and that's added to the responsibilities of taking care of her husband.

Now fast forward 7 years: She now has a 7 year old, a 5 year old, and a 18 month old.

Because she doesn't work, hubby has to work all he can to make ends meet. Then when he comes home, there are the outside chores that need tending. By the time he's done with those, it's time for supper. While he's working, at work and outside, she's cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, changing diapers, shopping, supervising baths, supervising homework, answering phones, wiping faces and little finger prints off the french doors, sewing things that need it, and don't forget taking the the kids to school and picking them up, and running the errands. Sometimes, trying to do all at once. That's all in good day. God forbid anyone gets sick, especially her.

In the midst of all this chaos, she is also still expected to maintain herself so that hubby still finds her sexually attractive, if he doesn't, well then you might as well find a lawyer now. It is proven fact that men think about sex every 33 secs. Now show me a woman who can do all that, and I'll show you superwoman.

Men still go out with the guys, because they need a 'break'. They go fishing, hunting, golfing, etc. What about her? She doesn't get any outside conversation. Her conversations throughout the day revolve around her children. the only contact she has with the outside world is the lady at the bank drivethru, or the lady at the checkout counter at the store. When\if they get an evening alone, he's too tired to take her out, and that's what she needs more than anything. A woman has to ask her husband to babysit for the kids before she goes to do anything without the them. (Can anyone explain that to me? Why a woman has to ask a father to BABYSIT his own kids?)

Don't forget the changes in attitude wives go through,(that's where the 'I don't know you anymore' comes in) when hubby is standing behind her with his hands on his hips behind while she is giving someone down the road, it tends to detract from her ability to handle herself.

Now I know not all marriages are like what I just posted, just as you guys should know that very few marriages are like what the original post leads one to believe.
 Quoting: A Woman 171617


applause2
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 160888
United States
12/19/2006 10:08 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
The Misogynist rides again. Chose a lousy mate and all women are guilty forever more........
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74266
United States
12/19/2006 10:11 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
marriage was created for the enslavement of women

we would be so much better off without it

face it, men are not capable of marriage, love and commitment

hence, marriage is a fraud

i suggest that young women do not jump into marriage, the guy is only looking for a maid and sex slave.
Evil Twin

User ID: 102035
United States
12/19/2006 10:19 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
marriage was created for the enslavement of women

we would be so much better off without it

face it, men are not capable of marriage, love and commitment

hence, marriage is a fraud

i suggest that young women do not jump into marriage, the guy is only looking for a maid and sex slave.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74266

And women are only looking for a sugar daddy to provide the good life for them.


Generalizations suck, don't they?
Old-fashioned Catholic

User ID: 168859
United States
12/19/2006 11:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Perhaps the best solution is to marry a devout Filipino woman. Good combination:

- Asian respect for the father's role in the family

- Catholic understanding that marriage is for life.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 153151
Canada
12/19/2006 11:49 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
I see that your well thought out carefully worded enlightening essay has drawn the wrath of the feminazis !
How predictable. Men are nowadays not even allowed to mention the word 'women' without being accused of misogyny.

I've seen the nightmares my brothers have gotten themselves into, but fortunately I'm gay and have no inclination to attempt changing in order to pursue some romantic delusions ...
The Monk
User ID: 171266
United States
12/20/2006 12:13 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Amen, brother! applause

I was married, and DID divorce.

I feel lucky as hell that my "education" was not financially devastating for me. VERY lucky.

#1, my wife worked and made as much as I did. No alimony!
#2, our child was HER child - from a previous marriage. No child support!
#3, our house became HER house, willingly by me - but she had to PAY ME for it, purchase my equity.

I walked away from marriage after two short years with a healthy chunk of cash in my pocket, thanks to the housing boom... and with a very healthy education.

I'm not going to say I agree with everything here, and nor do I feel jaded by my experience.

But the gist of the article is BE CAREFUL, and I couldn't agree more. I am scared to get into a deeply loving relationship again, because I have seen firsthand how quickly something that seems like heaven can go downhill and be over just like that. Truly sad, but in the end it is like everything in life - learn your lessons from it, whatever they may be, and keep trudging ahead. Try not to look back and regret. Look forward without carrying a chip or a burden. Live life, but be aware of the traps that you can blunder into...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 171535


Whew!!!!
Old-fashioned Catholic

User ID: 168859
United States
12/20/2006 12:29 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
She puts in an eight hour day (or more) then comes home and instead of eating a sandwich, or a can of soup, she has to cook supper. Instead of picking her apartment/house as she goes, she has to pick up after her husband. Instead of doing one load of laundry a day, she now has two. (You men may not think that sounds like much, but how many of you actually look foward to coming home to outside chores every night?)
...
When she's shopping for clothes, she will buy what she thinks her husband would like to see her in, instead of buying what she really wants to.

The hair, nails, and makeup are mostly for the husband's benefit. (We want to look good for our husbands.)

When she buys for the house, she won't buy things he won't like, and if she does,(unless he just has really bad taste) it will be returned.
...
Men still go out with the guys, because they need a 'break'. They go fishing, hunting, golfing, etc. What about her? She doesn't get any outside conversation. Her conversations throughout the day revolve around her children. the only contact she has with the outside world is the lady at the bank drivethru, or the lady at the checkout counter at the store.
 Quoting: A Woman 171617

The above is quite hilarious fiction.

In actuality:

1) Wives who put in full 40-hour weeks generally do not cook, nor do they do more than their share of the cleaning.

2) Wives do not buy clothes or otherwise make themselves look good for their husbands; they do this to look good in front of other women. This is a well-known psychological and marketing fact. Clothing, cosmetics, etc., are women's competitive sport. Indeed, most women have only a thinly disguised contempt for men's views on such matters.

3) Again, most wives couldn't care less what their husbands think of home furnishings. Indeed, wives typically spend money on home furnishings simply out of boredom. ('The house looks old-fashioned.') Husbands typically realize that money spent on such nonsense is simply wasted but are powerless to prevent it.

4) Believe me, no woman "doesn't get any outside conversation." Most women are *always* talking to other women--and to men who are willing to put up with their chatter. Indeed, even wives who are supposed to be busy with six children may neglect them in order to gab for hours on the phone, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. To assuage their guilt, wives may drag the children along on their woman-outings and to their kaffeeklatsches, but let's not fool ourselves as to the real purpose of such activities.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 157627
Canada
12/20/2006 12:35 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
She puts in an eight hour day (or more) then comes home and instead of eating a sandwich, or a can of soup, she has to cook supper. Instead of picking her apartment/house as she goes, she has to pick up after her husband. Instead of doing one load of laundry a day, she now has two. (You men may not think that sounds like much, but how many of you actually look foward to coming home to outside chores every night?)
...
When she's shopping for clothes, she will buy what she thinks her husband would like to see her in, instead of buying what she really wants to.

The hair, nails, and makeup are mostly for the husband's benefit. (We want to look good for our husbands.)

When she buys for the house, she won't buy things he won't like, and if she does,(unless he just has really bad taste) it will be returned.
...
Men still go out with the guys, because they need a 'break'. They go fishing, hunting, golfing, etc. What about her? She doesn't get any outside conversation. Her conversations throughout the day revolve around her children. the only contact she has with the outside world is the lady at the bank drivethru, or the lady at the checkout counter at the store.
The above is quite hilarious fiction.

In actuality:

1) Wives who put in full 40-hour weeks generally do not cook, nor do they do more than their share of the cleaning.

2) Wives do not buy clothes or otherwise make themselves look good for their husbands; they do this to look good in front of other women. This is a well-known psychological and marketing fact. Clothing, cosmetics, etc., are women's competitive sport. Indeed, most women have only a thinly disguised contempt for men's views on such matters.

3) Again, most wives couldn't care less what their husbands think of home furnishings. Indeed, wives typically spend money on home furnishings simply out of boredom. ('The house looks old-fashioned.') Husbands typically realize that money spent on such nonsense is simply wasted but are powerless to prevent it.

4) Believe me, no woman "doesn't get any outside conversation." Most women are *always* talking to other women--and to men who are willing to put up with their chatter. Indeed, even wives who are supposed to be busy with six children may neglect them in order to gab for hours on the phone, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. To assuage their guilt, wives may drag the children along on their woman-outings and to their kaffeeklatsches, but let's not fool ourselves as to the real purpose of such activities.
 Quoting: Old-fashioned Catholic



Talk about stereotypes.
Shadow

User ID: 167681
Canada
12/20/2006 12:36 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
My only observation would be:

Men, do you really want to stay home and raise the kids, or would you rather be at work?
Over the side and damn the barracuda
Evil Twin

User ID: 80449
United States
12/20/2006 12:38 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
My only observation would be:

Men, do you really want to stay home and raise the kids, or would you rather be at work?
 Quoting: Shadow

Neither, but that maid/sex slave deal sounds pretty good.
I want one of those, LOL.
Shadow

User ID: 167681
Canada
12/20/2006 12:51 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
I have a perfect relationship. My husband works long hours, I cook and clean, I work long hours he cooks and cleans. Maybe I do more cooking and cleaning, he does more mowing and wood-cutting. We don't keep score.
Over the side and damn the barracuda
anonymous coward
User ID: 160962
United States
12/20/2006 01:10 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
What does Christmas mean to me? As a single father what it means is that I will have my daughter with me. That I will not be alone eating at McDonalds.

Because for almost 10 years Christmas meant starving to me, as I cut back on food in order to afford to buy my daughter Christmas presents. So in spite of what her mother told her, that daddy did not forget her, nor was he too cheap to buy her a Christmas present.
I am thankful because it means that I won’t be worried about whether or not her mother will let her spend time with me on Christmas, depending on whether or not she wants to make her suffer because she’s had a bad date.
It also means that I won’t have to worry about her mother driving her on the freeway while under the influence of Alcohol.
Two years ago after battling my ex-wife for custody of my daughter for over 10 years, my ex wife decided to kick my daughter out of her house, while at the same time threatening to kill her cat.
Since that time she has done everything in her power to turn her family against her daughter, while demanding an apology from her, because she actually preferred to live with me rather than have her cat put to sleep. Another Primal Success story.

During all those terrible years, how could I explain to her that although I make almost $70,000 per year, I could not support myself? How do you explain your legal troubles with the IRS, and the Tax Franchise Board to a toddler? While her mother uses her child support for trips to Europe, B.C., and Vegas and to pay her rent.

How do you explain having all your wages garnished because you’re ex wife forges a court order increasing your child support payments and the DA honors it?
And to the thousands of men I’ve sat and talked to down at the commonwealth Court house in Los Angeles, waiting while our child support cases came before the court, take cheer. Because each day, another man is divorced in California. Each day, another man feels the sting of the courts injustice, and the oppression of its laws.
And a day will come when there are so many millions of us standing before the court demanding justice, that the roar of our words will shake the court to its very foundations. And my brothers, that day is not far away, no not far away, at all any more.
N.E.L.E.
User ID: 158124
United States
12/20/2006 02:08 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Nin-Ten-Do Brother....

Nin-Ten-Do

Goofy Thum

Canadian F
chiptruth

User ID: 135078
United States
12/20/2006 02:25 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
emma goldman was completely NOT Punk Rock.
she was definitely an anarchist, though.

Fidel Castro was in no way, shape or form an anarchist.
'My Disillusionment in Russia' explains that point.

Ms. Goldman probably never got the pleasure in her life of ever being called "Ms."


people who have read the essay that started this topic thread should become aware of -- well, I wanted to call Riane Eisler a seminal feminist -- but there's the problem, eh?

The foundation of the United States was based on slavery. Usually the argument against anarchism is that if that foundation of slavery were taken away (remember that american women were not allowed to vote for a LONG LONG TIME after the foundation of the Republic from 1789 to 1920 women were not allowed to partipate in election) --

-- the argument of the proponents of slavery is that the nation would fall apart into -- well, you've heard the cliches.

it's always been a lie.

and of course the truth will assist in the manifestation of freedom and fairness for all -- as in, it will set us free from prison mind -- from situations institutionalized based on the idea that we can't handle freedom -- created by those who institutionalized half truths as the foundation of the United States. the hypocrisy! that's why the American Civil War happened. the liars of imperialist institutionalized slavery -- or marriages that have to happen lest the unmarried perish in economic unfairness -- have lied and called opponents of their philosophy "jealous" for so long. The EXACT opposite has been true.

It's a wall of lies. A solid wall of epistemological falsehoods fearfully protected by naked emperors.
19.47™

User ID: 6933
United Kingdom
12/20/2006 11:52 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Marriage sure ain't what it used to be...if it ever was.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 159991
United States
12/20/2006 11:59 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
Don't shoot me... just the messenger... I didn't write it.

By: "The Author" (unknown)

Pt. 1:

This writing seeks to educate men about the realities of what he may be getting himself into when he marries. An informed decision is less likely to be one that is later regretted. The intent is not to dissuade men from marrying, but to encourage them in communicating frankly their concerns and expectations of marriage with their potential spouses. The aim of this writing is to also enlighten women with some of the reasons why increasing numbers of successful eligible unmarried men, who otherwise prefer monogamous long-term relationships, are turning their backs on marriage.

Society automatically paints a stereotype on men who hesitate, delay, or elect not to marry. They are labelled as:
a) womanizers who are unable to participate in a long term relationship, or
b) Selfish/childish/irresponsible men who can not take care of themselves or another person.
No other explanation is ever explored.

The cost of proclaiming your undying love
(aka: The tip of the iceberg)

Except in professional sports and presidential elections, women are given the same educational and professional career opportunities as men. Also, contrary to feminist propaganda, women do indeed get paid the same salary as men, given they are willing to work the same types of jobs as men, and work as many hours as their male counterpart. Despite this reality, many women come into a marriage with very little assets, and often, are saddled with substantial debt. In general, men are the ones who save and invest. (Don't believe me? Count the number of women of marrying age you know who subscribe to Fortune, Forbes, or Money magazine) A significant number of 20 and 30-something women spend most of their disposable income on luxury rental apartments, upscale restaurants, frequent exotic vacations, leased cars, spa treatments, and excessive amounts of clothing, purses, shoes, etc. Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly. (Yet ironically, in the media, men are the ones who are portrayed as reckless, irresponsible spendthrifts)

** Disclaimer: For the purposes of this essay, I will be generalizing about the potential circumstances and gender roles that can plague men in today's modern marriage. What is the exception and what it the rule is open to debate. Certainly not all (or perhaps even most?) marriages end up as described. However, the aim is to simply educate men of some of the potential outcomes that exist for today's marriage and divorce.


When marriage enters the picture, double standards and financial imbalances leave responsible men to pick up the slack. (And also fix the mess she may have made). For starters, men are forced (yes, forced) to spend their hard earned savings (or take a loan) on a diamond ring. Women justify this relatively nascent ritual (spawned by a brilliant 1940's mass-brainwashing campaign launched by DeBeers) by insisting a man wants to buy her a diamond. That it makes a man proud to proclaim his love and affection this way. Granted, some men may be this way, but there are plenty who seek a lifelong partnership and commitment, yet have no interest in buying diamonds. What choice do these men have? None! To many young men, the ring/wedding is a unwelcome landmine in their journey towards adult financial stability. To add insult to injury, (a recurring theme in marriage, as you will see), the man is now locked into a lifetime of insurance payments for this grossly overpriced jewelry. (Contrary to popular belief, diamonds are not rare, but their supply has been artificially manipulated) Some men are more concerned with realizing their dream of owning a home, and/or becoming financially stable enough to begin a family. Men worry about these matters, because, ultimately, it becomes their responsibility as well.

This just portends the things to come. Immediately after buying a ring, the man may be rewarded with demands of financing all or part of a lavish wedding.... (Depending on the size of his bank account.) The costs of today's weddings exceed that of a house down payment. (Or in certain parts of the country, the house itself) If a man enters a marriage having saved up a down payment for his dream home, it can suddenly be snatched from right from under him. Many men may object to spending this sum of money on a one-day party. (Or spending a year of their life planning it, when they could use the same time to further their career or education) However, what a man wants is really not of any concern. Non-negotiable. A wedding is no longer for the bride and groom. As today's Bridezilla gleefully reminds you, "This is MY day". (Which ostensibly, gives her carte blanche to become selfish, irresponsible, and childlike) Are all women like this? Not at all. Could this be your future wife? Possibly. A man who balks at spending his entire life savings (or going into debt for) a ring & wedding & exotic 5-star honeymoon can be labeled a selfish cheapskate or not a "real man". (Meanwhile, what exactly constitutes a "real woman"?) In fact, if a woman leaves a man for suggesting they try to keep their costs under control, she would have full support from everyone around her. "She can do better than that"...."Clearly, he doesn't love her"..... etc. This is a sign of good self-esteem, and that she won't settle for anything less. Yet, in the same breath of this sense of entitlement, women proudly proclaim how equal & independent they are. However, can you imagine if a man demanded equal treatment? For example, demanding the woman buy him a boat, and a 2 week bear hunt in Siberia as a condition of marriage? This would be viewed as absurd, yet women do it every day. Marriage is a partnership, right? Please read on, my friend.

The injustices can go from bad to worse when children enter the picture. If the man can afford to carry the entire financial burden, the woman can elect to stop working. (Regardless of how the man may feel about the decision) The day the woman stops working is the day all of her past financial baggage unequivocally gets thrown onto the man's head. If the woman has racked up credit card debts, these are now his payments. If the woman has not bothered to pay off her student loans, these also become the man's responsibility. (Stomach-churning irony = the man is stuck paying for her degree, and she's not even working anymore!!) And can the man object? Can he say, "No, you made your mess, and it should not be my job to clean it up. You knew you wanted kids even before you met me, and you should have planned ahead." No, the payments can't be deferred until she is once again able to continue repaying them herself (Besides, that day may never come) Not if he wants to retain a clean credit rating to get a loan for their dream home. If he even suggested that she return to work to pay off her own debts, he would be chastised as bad father, endangering the welfare of his newborn. So, the responsible husband now compensates for the mother's freewheeling irresponsible past, and pays off all her debts. In yet another sick twist of irony, the husband may be paying off credit cards used to finance vacations and xmas gifts shared with previous boyfriends, etc. Buyer beware! This is the reward for today's man who works hard, makes sacrifices, plans ahead, and invests wisely. Again, this doesn't always happen. But by getting married, the man is certainly susceptible to being railroaded into this situation, because it is completely acceptable within today's accepted gender roles. Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly.

Marriage can mean career slavery
(aka: A good paycheck can mean career slavery)

Anyone who says "Slavery is dead" clearly has not contemplated the predicament of many American fathers. Webster's defines slavery as "the state of being under the control of another person." If the husband earns enough to support both of them, he would be hard pressed to make an argument to preserve equality, and have her continue working as he does. If the wife decides to stop working, the men who have been left holding the financial bag find their options limited. They may find themselves stuck in careers they hate, or working for abusive exploitative management, working excessively long hours, working in jobs that are physically threatening, that have no growth potential, enduring prolonged commutes, etc. At this point, considering the corner he's been painted into, he is often powerless to affect any change in his own life. A husband may have been harboring delusions that once the wife was able to return to work, he would gain some flexibility to rectify some of the shortcomings in his own career (For example, changing careers or accepting a lower salary at a different firm, in exchange for better hours, shorter commute, and/or more fulfilling work, etc) But, a distinct reality is that he will continue to shoulder the financial responsibilities alone....A man's reward for working hard and getting ahead is to become trapped into his career, and shoulder the financial burdens of a family alone. Does it pay to work hard anymore?

If she stops working, she may never work again.
(aka: Caveat Emptor)

There are many debates about the merits of a stay-at-home mother vs. a working mother. My goal here is to simply educate the man on the unseen risks he is taking when he agrees to accept 100% of the financial burden to allow his wife to stay at home. Again, an informed decision is less likely to be one that is later regretted.


Every parent will agree that staying home with a child is back-breaking (and often mind-numbing) labor. Many new fathers will concede that it is much easier to go to work than to stay at home with several children. However, the greatest imbalance in efforts and contributions to a marriage can manifest once all the children are of school age. The house is now empty from 8am-3pm. The wife has 7 hours to herself, while the kids are at school, and the husband is at work. After a few years of hard work at home, many wives may feel entitled to "kick back." The good husband however, has worked those same years, has done his 50/50 of the housework, and is still working to support the family once the kids are in school. He is rarely afforded the same option to scale back his daytime efforts.

What motivation does the modern wife have to return to work? Very little. For several years now, the man's salary has been enough to live on. (Otherwise, she would have been working) Unless tight finances dictate that she must return to work, the husband really has little say in this matter. The wife can hide behind many different excuses in order not to work, despite having little to do from 7am-3pm:

"I'm busy with the housework"
It is easy to exaggerate the labors of daily housework. Yet, how long does it take to throw clothes into the wash, and remove them later? Vacuuming can be done in 1 hour a week. Grocery is another hour per week. A decent meal can be prepared in under an hour. Does all this add up to 7 hours a day? Note: This lie is not as persuasive as it may have been in the past, b/c in an age of later marriage, many men are already experienced in cooking & cleaning, and know what kind of effort it entails. (Note that not every stay-at-home-wife even does all these things.)

"I can't find a job"
She has been out of work too long, and therefore is unable to find a job. This may be true, but many men do not consider this risk when they agree to support her while she "temporarily' stops working. (Hopefully, now they will, and can make a more informed decision) Also, many wives may use this as a scapegoat to conveniently not even bother looking for any job. (Below, I describe how this can even be used against the husband in the event of divorce)

"It doesn't pay for me to work"
In the shortrun, the expenses of work (gas, lunch, clothes) may not make it worthwhile for her to go back to work. This may be true, but does this justify her playing tennis, while the husband toils away? Many couples may be too shortsighted on this matter. Initially, the cost/benefit numbers may not be ideal, but her returning to work will improve her job skills and network of contacts. (More so than strolling through the local mall every afternoon) Over time, as her career gets back on track, and she becomes qualified for better jobs, her salary should also improve.

It should be duly noted that some working wives view their salary as "personal spending money", and still expect the man to pay all or most of the bills. (What's mine is mine, and what's yours is ours.) Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly.

Even more unfair double standards that favor wives

Cheating.
If a married man cheats, he's the scum of the earth.A selfish jerk who has jeopardized the family unit. However, when the woman cheats, she's conveniently portrayed as the victim. Poor thing. It's for her empowerment, or to help her self-esteem. Worse yet, her cheating can be the man's fault. How? He doesn't compliment her like her new man does. Or he works too much. (Yes, the man who is scrambling to pay the mortgage and cars she may have demanded is now considered negligent. The man who may be working 2 jobs to allow her to be home with her kids is now considered negligent)

When a woman cheats, the first thing people ask is what he did (or didn't do) to drive her into the arms of another man.
When a man cheats, no one ever asks the same question.

When a woman cheats, sometimes the reaction can be, "Oh, poor thing, I guess her husband wasn't delivering in the bedroom".
However, if a man cheats, no one ever stops to think...."Oh poor fella, his wife was horrible in bed."

Also, if a man happens to leave his wife for a younger woman, it is automatically assumed that he is a shallow sex maniac whose only motivation was to be with a younger woman. If his wife was lazy, or a reckless spendthrift, or verbally or physically abusive, or became grossly overweight, or was an incompetent mother, those realities are totally ignored. Ostensibly, the only reason a man leaves his wife is to be with a younger, more attractive woman. (Never mind if she is a better match for him) Because apparently, that's the only factor that motivates these Neanderthals.

Prenups
If a man insists on a prenup, he is selfish and unromantic. However, when is the last time a woman who demanded a prenup was called "unromantic"? On the contrary, if a woman requests a prenup, she is fiscally responsible and looking out for herself. (Note: If your fiancée refuses to sign a prenup, she has just shown her hand...) Why is it that a woman can refuse a prenup, and it's accepted. In reality, the man should be outraged that she is after a legal contract, and not love.

What is astounding is the hypocrisy of the reaction towards prenups. Women can conveniently assert that a man is unromantic if he suggests a prenup. After all, how can a man pollute true love with signing of legal paperwork! However, what is a marriage contract? Women do not seem to balk at signing this legal paperwork, which entitles her to at least half the money a man earns, and obligates him to support her if the event of a breakup. Why aren't men allowed to note how unromantic this contract is? The distraction of bridal magazines, selection of dinner napkins, churches, wedding dresses, receptions, wedding showers, and honeymoons have clouded the legal reality of what men are getting themselves into. Marriage is as much an unromantic legal contract as a prenuptial agreement is.

Ironically, prenups were devised as a way to protect women. Nuptial agreements were popularized in the 19th century, mostly to protect heiresses from marrying men who were "out for their money." Until the Married Women's Property Act of 1848, a woman's property, upon marriage, was transferred to her husband. (Correct, )

"Stupid, Irresponsible" Men
Men are severely abused in our media, quite frankly. Just watch TV commercials/sitcoms and see how many reflect men as idiots. (If they had commercials like that about women, people would have a fit.) If it wasn't for their wives they would be lost "animals". Other commercials who make it appear that men act without thinking, impulsively and irrationally, and the wife is the brains of the family, which in reality is not always true. Even many women will agree, women often are the ones who act on emotions, and make judgment solely based on emotional attachments, rather then logic and reason. Almost every "couples budgeting" article will portray the woman as the one who has to rein in the man's childish spending.

Job Loss
If a husband loses his job and is having trouble finding work, the wife is justified in threatening to leave him. However, can you imagine the reaction if a husband threatened to leave a wife who was in the exact same position?? He would be crucified! If a man loses his job, the woman is justified in resenting the fact that the financial burden lies on her. However, when is a man allowed to resent this very same predicament? If a man is laid off and cares for the household/kids, while the wife is working, he can be accused of not pulling his weight! Yet this is exactly the same situation that women demand more recognition for!! Either role the man plays, he loses!

Traditional Roles
It's perfectly acceptable for a woman to demand a man make a certain salary, to be deemed "marriage material", and provide stability. Likewise, if a man demands the wife do the cooking/cleaning, he can now be labeled a sexist misogynist. If he asks her to carry her weight financially (just like he does), he can be criticized as an inadequate provider. What exactly deems a woman "marriage material"?

To top it off, some women have gotten so pampered that they not only quit their jobs the day they find out they are pregnant, but they hire as many nannys as their husband can afford. Yes, some wives stay at home, and hire someone else to raise the kids and clean up, while they drink lattes and go shopping all day with other pampered "stay-at-home" mothers. This is not all women, but certainly the odds increase if the man can afford it. Does it pay to work hard and get ahead anymore, if this is how your hard earned money is squandered?

Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly. The concept of the pampered wife is relatively new. America was primarily an agricultural economy even up into the 1920's. American wives contributed to the well being of the household by helping on the farm. A man needed a wife as an equal partner. It was not until the 1950's that the first generation of American wives began to emerge as dead weight. Perhaps this coincides with the spiking of the divorce rate in America. Perhaps men have become tired of giving so much, while getting so little in exchange.

Divorce
(aka: License to Steal)


50% of American marriages end in divorce, and 70% of these divorces are initiaited by women. All men should consult an attorney before marrying, and understand the implications of divorce, b/c they may participate in one whether they like it not.

Upon divorce, all assets accumulated during a marriage are subject to division. Even if the woman has not worked in years, and instead, has spent the last few years shopping and lunching from 7am-3pm, she is entitled to half of everything the man worked for during the course of the marriage. Is this fair? How many people would ever accept a job offer that stipulated that in the event of resignation, you would have to return 50% of every dime you were ever paid? No one in his or her right mind. Yet, men unknowingly agree to the exact same insanity when they sign their marriage contract!

"Assets accumulated prior to a marriage are exempt from a divorce." Yes, in theory. However, real life dictates otherwise. If funds from an account are commingled, it can become marital property. If even a dime from an account is spent towards the marriage, it can be considered marital property. Buy your child a lollypop from your own account, and a good lawyer will take 1/2 of it for your ex-wife when you divorce. If a woman moves into a home the man owned prior to the marriage, it is not safe from divorce. If she so much as hangs up a sheet of wallpaper, the home is now classified as marital property, and is subject to equal division. (Worse actually, the man can be ejected from the home) Is this fair?

Note: "equal division" is also somewhat a misnomer. Often, she can get upwards of 70% of assets, while the man gets the majority of the debts!! This, of course, is his reward for working so hard all these years. He can afford it, she can't b/c she was not working.

If you pamper your wife, it can be used against you
(aka: No good deed goes unpunished)

Imagine yourself giving a homeless man a sandwich. A generous act, indeed. Now imagine your reaction if the homeless man sues you in court! The judge orders you to keep feeding the homeless man sandwiches, indefinitely, because he has become accustomed to your support!! This would be categorically absurd, yet this happens to men in divorce court every day. Instead of thanking you for paying her bills for all those years, you get the reward of legally having to keep paying her bills! Remember folks: No good deed goes unpunished.


After having children, many women demand to quit working and stay home. Before kids, many of these women may have been in careers they hated, working long hours, and enduring long commutes. It is the man's generosity and dedication to his own career that allows her to walk away from her hers. During a marriage, a man with a stay-at-home wife might work himself to the bone in order to support her. He will pay the mortgage, property tax, grocery bill, phone bill, cable bill, and electric bill. He also pays for her car, the gas money, clothes, and vacations.

As a slap in the face, the man can be punished for working hard enough to allow his wife the have the luxury of staying home with the kids. As noted above, after the children are in school, the wife may enjoy a life of leisure that is afforded to her by her man's hard work. In event of divorce, he can be legally obligated to support her for years to come. Because she stopped working and led a life of leisure, the ex-husband is now responsible for supporting her!! History has a tendency of rewriting itself. Originally, a woman may have had a career that she may have hated, and was begging to leave. (In fact, that partially may have been her motivation to have kids in the first place.) But now, in her eyes (or her lawyer's eyes), she "gave up" her career for the man and his kids. His gift now becomes her sacrifice! Or, the story goes that he was threatened by her having her own career, and forced her to quit and stay home with the children. (How many men do you personally know that are upset at having a wife that earns a good living?) Many of these misleading stereotypes still run rampant in our society, and are routinely used to the woman's advantage during a divorce. As a result of her not working, regardless of whether she was minding the home or not, she remains a liability.

Generous, caring men who spoil their wives should certainly think twice about how this generosity can later be used against them. The phrase used in divorce court is "She has become accustomed to a certain lifestyle". A husband's reward for spoiling his wife today is the legal obligation to spoil her indefinitely. Buy her a luxury car today, and you may be obligated to buy her luxury cars after she leaves for you for another man! Yet...imagine a husband that became accustomed to eating a home cooked dinner prepared by his wife. Now imagine the courts obligate the ex-wife to continue cooking for him and his new girlfriend each night, despite being divorced! Inconceivable, but it happens the other way around every day!

The ultimate insult, however, comes when the man loses half of his life's assets even when she has decided to leave him. Yes, a wife can kick a man out of his own home, and have the courts force him to continue paying the bills, while she is sleeping with her new boyfriend in the very house the husband worked to buy! She can spend her alimony check on gifts for her new boyfriend! Are all women like this? No. Does the legal system support a woman who does feel entitled to this? Yes.


The risks are clear, but what exactly are men getting out of marriage? Many times, the reasons men get married are unfounded.

All the "classic" reasons why a man gets married are a myth.
(aka: Don't believe the hype)

"I won't die alone"
Wrong. The simple fact is, that one spouse WILL die alone. (Unless you both die simultaneously in a car accident.) Your spouse may die 15 years before you. Or you may be on a hospital bed for your last year. Yes, you may get visitors, but they aren't having the same thoughts as you are. You're contemplating your mortality, while they're wondering what pizza toppings the hospital cafeteria offers. Ultimately, we all die alone. Married or not.
 Quoting: IGASOP



I'ts sad that there's so much truth to that!


stir
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9482
United States
12/20/2006 12:11 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
I think this one line should be driven home to everyone, men and women, considering marriage:

"Marriage is as much an unromantic legal contract as a prenuptial agreement is."

People forget that regardless of what you think of marriage, ultimately it is a legal contact between the man and woman following the rules of the state.
impetigo
User ID: 2671
United States
12/20/2006 12:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
This could have been written by my
brother! He now has to live at
home with my parents to support
his X's lifestyle of not working because
of the kids,
gym, spa, vacations, etc., He
barely has enough to make it. The
judge told him tough.

Any woman who would do this to a man
is pitiful.

I would only marry under the conditions
of a pre-nup.

I don't get the stay at home lifestyle
anyway. Most SAHM's don't do a thing,
cleaning, cooking or even caring for
the kids. Talk about welfare states...
Castle

User ID: 124845
Canada
12/20/2006 03:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why Marriage Has Become a Raw Deal for Men - Part 1
My only observation would be:

Men, do you really want to stay home and raise the kids, or would you rather be at work?
 Quoting: Shadow

For me, at work, no doubt about it. My only wish, that my wife could have stayed home to raise the kids (which she would have loved to do) but had to work due our financial situation at the time.





GLP