"Economic Dominoes Falling" | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 469827 United States 07/18/2008 12:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Forbes released information here, that in May 2008 consumer credit rose $7.78 billion to $2.57 trillion in total consumer credit debt. While home equity went belly up, consumers turned to credit cards to fund their lavish purchases which helps drive the U.S. economy. When comparing the number of $2.57 trillion in total consumer credit debt to worldwide economies it can become quite breathtaking and unsettling. The United Kingdom’s GDP is less than U.S. consumer credit debt totals and so are the GDP’s of Russia, Brazil, Spain, France, Italy and Canada. With Americans hurting and pulling back on paying their bills major credit card companies such as Bank of America, Capital One, Washington Mutual, Citigroup and American Express are bracing themselves for at least a 20 percent explosion in credit card defaults. If that don't scare the shit out of you, nothing will. It's a big freakin' leap from 7 billion to 2 trillion, any way you slice it. What's 20% of 2 trillion? |
itdincor User ID: 434253 United States 07/18/2008 04:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 447388 United States 07/18/2008 04:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
another dumbfuck User ID: 370073 China 07/18/2008 05:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
another dumbfuck User ID: 370073 China 07/18/2008 05:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What you are witnessing is the acceleration of a complete systemic breakdown of the US and world financial systems and economies. It is happening right before your eyes. It is in your face. The Scylla and Charibdis of real estate finance, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which are currently in possession of, or have insured, over 5 trillion dollars worth of mortgages, a good portion of which are nothing but toxic waste, have imploded and will now be nationalized in the most egregious example of moral hazard in the history of the world. As this socialism for the rich transpires, IndyMac Bank has gone up in smoke. This is the second largest bank failure in US history and the largest such failure in over 23 years. Adding insult to injury, 10% to 20% of the FDIC's insurance reserves have just gone up in smoke along with IndyMac just as the hundreds, and what may eventually turn out to be thousands, of bank failures that are anticipated get started in earnest. What does that leave for future failures if only one bank failure wipes out a fifth of the FDIC's reserves? Next up on the chopping block may be Downey, First Federal, Wachovia and Washington Mutual, which are not small fry by any means. Mattresses and freezers may soon be the savings vehicles of choice for those who can't afford a home safety vault as Depression Era mentality becomes the psychology du jour. |
bankrun User ID: 370073 China 07/18/2008 06:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 467252 France 07/18/2008 06:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I keep reading about things like this all the time. in fact i have read them since 1998 but here is the thing. I am self-employed, have a house, wife and two kids. I earn an average wage. We spend same as everyone else. We have a wonderful life. We enjoy ourselves, eat well and drive two cars (old but good). Never ever in my life have i ever come across any problems financially. Never worried about doom and gloom. I have read these reports and yet in real life i don't come across any problems. So what gives? I mean really....what gives? Who are these reports meant for? Who writes them and where do they get their info from? Why does it not reflect the man on the street and i am one with a family. I am not debunking this but i really want to know. There are so manyt of you on this forum posting stuff lie these every single day and yet if i sat with you and went through your life you probebly be wondering the same thing as i do. For a start you all seem to have access to internet. If it is in your job then at least you have a job. if it is at home then you must be able to afford it. My question is: Who does this doom and gloom effect? If its meant to be people like me then i am 50 years old with a family to feed and have never ever had any problems. If it is about the rich people and their money then how does that effect us? as i said 10 years of reading about it and nothing has happened. your sensible comments please |
WW RAUPP User ID: 414047 Netherlands 07/18/2008 06:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 467252 France 07/18/2008 06:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 434951 Bulgaria 07/18/2008 06:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 470092 Switzerland 07/18/2008 07:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I keep reading about things like this all the time. in fact i have read them since 1998 but here is the thing. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467252I am self-employed, have a house, wife and two kids. I earn an average wage. We spend same as everyone else. We have a wonderful life. We enjoy ourselves, eat well and drive two cars (old but good). Never ever in my life have i ever come across any problems financially. Never worried about doom and gloom. I have read these reports and yet in real life i don't come across any problems. So what gives? I mean really....what gives? Who are these reports meant for? Who writes them and where do they get their info from? Why does it not reflect the man on the street and i am one with a family. I am not debunking this but i really want to know. There are so manyt of you on this forum posting stuff lie these every single day and yet if i sat with you and went through your life you probebly be wondering the same thing as i do. For a start you all seem to have access to internet. If it is in your job then at least you have a job. if it is at home then you must be able to afford it. My question is: Who does this doom and gloom effect? If its meant to be people like me then i am 50 years old with a family to feed and have never ever had any problems. If it is about the rich people and their money then how does that effect us? as i said 10 years of reading about it and nothing has happened. your sensible comments please Good for you! Hope you can keep it. This news are more for people who have interests and ties to global economy. Moreover, also for people who are affected by lay offs and now unemployed and wondering on how they would pay their bills. You have to read OP's message and you will mentally see what's going on to the other side of where you are. Have you noticed some businesses closing? Families moving out of their homes? Where do you live? From your post, you seem to live a modest life therefore, YOUR ENVIRONMENT is AFFECTED WITH WHAT's GOING ON AROUND you.Unless, you are too blind to see or too lazy to notice the real world you are in. Who does this gloom and doom effect? Many factors and many people are involved but I suggest you read newspapers for a start before you read GLP as this site will shock you. Better yet, stay in your island world and just enjoy your remaining life with your family. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 460387 United Kingdom 07/18/2008 07:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
BelgianBoy User ID: 391384 Belgium 07/18/2008 07:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | is there no one who can offer some sort of sensible explanation to my questions above? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467252Maybe you just did the right things? If you're deeply in debt then I would worry. I am selfemployed also and I live with the simple rule: I don't buy what I can't afford (have the cash for). I do feel the pinch of higher prices, but save accordingly. The financial system is on a brink. I DO worry about it's effect in the longer run. Wait till the end of this year. |
ShowMe State of Mind User ID: 461916 United States 07/18/2008 08:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | is there no one who can offer some sort of sensible explanation to my questions above? Quoting: BelgianBoyMaybe you just did the right things? If you're deeply in debt then I would worry. I am selfemployed also and I live with the simple rule: I don't buy what I can't afford (have the cash for). I do feel the pinch of higher prices, but save accordingly. The financial system is on a brink. I DO worry about it's effect in the longer run. Wait till the end of this year. Ditto. I am self-employed, as well, we own a mom and pop ISP and we deal only with businesses. We offer a solution that is cheaper than the telephone companies and lately we have been seeing an upswing in our business. Companies can't afford to keep their expensive telephone service. These companies would have never taken a look at us before, trusting their Internet to a small company, but now it makes financial sense. I am a single mom. My daughter, mother, younger sister and I, all live together under one household. We own our own home, two cars in the garage and a decent income. However, if the US economy is not effecting you than you must be on an island somewhere... Gas is $4 a gallon, so is milk and rising. My monthly costco trip averages about $300, for the same items over the last two years, this last month it was $450! This is my first post on GLP and this is one of the topics that I have recently been following that lead me to this forum. If the economy is not failing you now, good thing! However, I would keep both eyes wide open and when I went to the market, buy a few extra items...just in case, you owe it to your family. Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.~Eleanor Roosevelt ~V~ |
BriZzNiTcH User ID: 420732 United States 07/18/2008 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I keep reading about things like this all the time. in fact i have read them since 1998 but here is the thing. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467252I am self-employed, have a house, wife and two kids. I earn an average wage. We spend same as everyone else. We have a wonderful life. We enjoy ourselves, eat well and drive two cars (old but good). Never ever in my life have i ever come across any problems financially. Never worried about doom and gloom. I have read these reports and yet in real life i don't come across any problems. So what gives? I mean really....what gives? Who are these reports meant for? Who writes them and where do they get their info from? Why does it not reflect the man on the street and i am one with a family. I am not debunking this but i really want to know. There are so manyt of you on this forum posting stuff lie these every single day and yet if i sat with you and went through your life you probebly be wondering the same thing as i do. For a start you all seem to have access to internet. If it is in your job then at least you have a job. if it is at home then you must be able to afford it. My question is: Who does this doom and gloom effect? If its meant to be people like me then i am 50 years old with a family to feed and have never ever had any problems. If it is about the rich people and their money then how does that effect us? as i said 10 years of reading about it and nothing has happened. your sensible comments please i agree - none of this has really affected me yet. im 27 - make a good wage, and support my entire household of 4. i have noticed the cost of everything going up, and with all this news i have not been spending as much as normal. with gas prices, i try not to drive as much. so my habits do affect the economy, as well as everyone else who is holding back spending. i think we are the lucky ones right now. that being said, my job depends on the real estate industry and i work for a very small company so i am scared shitless right now. if we closed up shop, i would be totally screwed and probably lose everything we have. also - think of the majority of people working for $7-$10 an hour. how much longer can they afford to drive to work? with groceries going up - im sure they are making some pretty tough decisions on how their paycheck is spent. probably why the credit card debt is rising so fast. soon, they wont have any credit left, then what? i think these people are also costing the state more money. my boyfriend applied for medicaid to cover a surgery he had earlier this year. they have 45 days to make a determination by the rules. however, because so many people are applying for foodstamps right now, all those medicaid claims are on hold. there are people as far back as october of last year, STILL waiting for an answer - because they are more worried about the foodstamp claims. so i think it is affecting many people, we are just lucky that it hasnt hit people like us who are making enough to get by. after this is all said and done, i dont think there will be a middle class like us anymore. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 469439 United States 07/18/2008 09:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 469528 United States 07/18/2008 09:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 467405 Japan 07/18/2008 09:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "For a start you all seem to have access to internet. If it is in your job then at least you have a job. if it is at home then you must be able to afford it. My question is: Who does this doom and gloom effect? If its meant to be people like me then i am 50 years old with a family to feed and have never ever had any problems." First of all, I know quite a few people just like you. They are g'ment employees who live on taxpayer furnished health insurance, they are furnished a car and gasoline. They get fairly regular cost-of-living raises and don't have a clue what the rest of us deal with to survive because they do so damn little for the money they are paid. Are you one of these parasites? How about telling who you work for? About internet access, we scramble for what we can get. Public libraries are a good service source. A lot of us go wireless and snag online. Some go over to relatives/friends to use computers. For a lot of people who do real work, it is a joke that workers have online access. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 387092 United States 07/18/2008 09:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I feel the exact same way sometimes. I read all of these damning reports and I wonder how it affects the everyday man. Like many people have already said, all you have to do is pay attention to the world around you, even if it's just in your community. Recently, the number of houses for sale on my way to work has risen by what I would guess 50%. And guess what? those houses are still for sale and will be for sale for some time. Noone wants to buy them or they cant get a loan because all the banks are so tight assed right now. It is a trickle UP effect if you want to think of it like that. You obviously lead a comfortable life, and thats great, but the people less fortunate than you are feeling it RIGHT NOW. It will not be long until you are being squeezed yourself, and then the upper middle class and maybe even the insanely rich, but I doubt it. So anyway, open your eyes and prepare however you can to hedge yourself against this economic monster. Euro's, gold, even extra gas and food. All of those are investments: gas and food are going up (might as well buy them at a cheaper price), gold and euros have been making steady gains on the dollar for months now and it doesnt look like they will be stopped for a while now. Just some suggestions.... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 387092 United States 07/18/2008 09:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "For a start you all seem to have access to internet. If it is in your job then at least you have a job. if it is at home then you must be able to afford it. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467405My question is: Who does this doom and gloom effect? If its meant to be people like me then i am 50 years old with a family to feed and have never ever had any problems." First of all, I know quite a few people just like you. They are g'ment employees who live on taxpayer furnished health insurance, they are furnished a car and gasoline. They get fairly regular cost-of-living raises and don't have a clue what the rest of us deal with to survive because they do so damn little for the money they are paid. Are you one of these parasites? How about telling who you work for? About internet access, we scramble for what we can get. Public libraries are a good service source. A lot of us go wireless and snag online. Some go over to relatives/friends to use computers. For a lot of people who do real work, it is a joke that workers have online access. And what sir is real work? Would you consider it to be having 2-3 hour meetings over the process of a business procedure? Would it be spending coutless hours designing, coding, debugging of custom application code? Would it be installing and setting up an entire system in another state while not traveling? I'm pretty certain that I wouldnt be able to work without the internet.... I'm sorry you chose the job where you work outside in the heat with a wrench. I like working on my car too but, I dont damn you for getting to maintenance cars all day do I? Keep your snide sour grapes comments to yourself. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 470131 United States 07/18/2008 10:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I keep reading about things like this all the time. in fact i have read them since 1998 but here is the thing. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 467252I am self-employed, have a house, wife and two kids. I earn an average wage. We spend same as everyone else. We have a wonderful life. We enjoy ourselves, eat well and drive two cars (old but good). Never ever in my life have i ever come across any problems financially. Never worried about doom and gloom. I have read these reports and yet in real life i don't come across any problems. So what gives? I mean really....what gives? Who are these reports meant for? Who writes them and where do they get their info from? Why does it not reflect the man on the street and i am one with a family. I am not debunking this but i really want to know. There are so manyt of you on this forum posting stuff lie these every single day and yet if i sat with you and went through your life you probebly be wondering the same thing as i do. For a start you all seem to have access to internet. If it is in your job then at least you have a job. if it is at home then you must be able to afford it. My question is: Who does this doom and gloom effect? If its meant to be people like me then i am 50 years old with a family to feed and have never ever had any problems. If it is about the rich people and their money then how does that effect us? as i said 10 years of reading about it and nothing has happened. your sensible comments please |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 470164 Netherlands 07/18/2008 10:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "also - think of the majority of people working for $7-$10 an hour. how much longer can they afford to drive to work? with groceries going up - im sure they are making some pretty tough decisions on how their paycheck is spent. probably why the credit card debt is rising so fast. soon, they wont have any credit left, then what?" Ah, someone who is thinking about the folks who don't make a living wage any more. At, let's use $10/hr. for a 40 hr. week which comes to about $1,700/mo. before taxes. Out of that comes housing (not cheap), food, gas, utilities, clothing, school supplies, car payments, car repairs, etc. Try holding the line on that little money without digging into credit cards to take up the slack. Tough decisions? You better believe it! Now think about the retirees living on average Social Security of less than $1,000. They are not much better off. Those with pensions are looking at maybe a 23% decrease in their monthly checks, and it can only get worse from there. I put myself on a budget a long time ago, taking into consideration inflation and a possible cut in my very small pension, so I can see where I have to make cuts in spending. My head's above the water for now, but when the whole world goes belly up, no one will have 2 nickels to rub together. There aren't any more rabbits to pull out of hats to keep the corporate scam with its Federal Reserve Board and the FDIC going for much longer. We are living in an illusion. . |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 470129 United States 07/18/2008 10:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I think that what has kept the economy together so far, is that most Americans have the attention span of a 5-year old. Most of them have no idea of what is going on in the world, and don't care. Most people used to get useful information from the evening news. Remember how the Vietnam war was televised? Now, the evening news is just a series of soundbytes mirroring Yahoo! most emailed news. People don't want to know that their way of life is disintegrating. As long as they still have $$ left on their credit card balance, they'll party on. Don't forget. The real recession hasn't even started. |
BriZzNiTcH User ID: 422951 United States 07/18/2008 11:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ah, someone who is thinking about the folks who don't make a living wage any more. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 470164. yea, im one of those folks and I dont forget what it's like and never will. i was very lucky to land the job I have, and my boss is very generous with our pay. I thank my lucky stars every day and pray we dont end up closing over this mess the country is in. I give back to my community with whatever I can spare, and love to help people who need it. I even donated my car when I bought my new one, instead of selling it. Ill never be a rich greedy bastard! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 470186 United States 07/18/2008 11:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Just because you can't see the collapse occuring now, in front of your eyes, means nothing. The window dressers are keeping the clothes on the mannequins in the front window, while all the inventory and furnishings of the viable business are removed by creditors or sold off to keep the appearance of vitality; that is our National business enterprise situation in a nutshell. Businesses leave lots of havoc when they downsize and eventually go bankrupt. Sure, the little guy can pick up some crumbs during a downturn, but how does the LG fare when they get stuck with defaults by customers? How much of your takehome income depends on customers paying you promptly? Are you following the vitality of those you do business with? There are many things in play that are beyond anyones control. How are you set to roll with the punches? The "cascading effects" scenario is entirely valid. All sectors in the economy are inter-related. Perhaps some have gotten wind of the changes coming and positioned themselves to take advantage? Maybe their "model" even plans for barter? Gotta know who your customers are and be sure what they own that you want to trade for. Kind of sounds like the whole premise TPTB are following in this American Slaughter; they know what they want and are out to take it by manipulation and financial mayhem. Think there is not financial mayhem? Look at the Auto sector, Banking, Investment Banking & Brokerage operators. Then look at what collapsing realty values will do to taxing entities, and the property owners. At some point, many of your customers will fold, because their is one ultimate truth in business: YOU CAN'T DO BUSINESS WITH PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY! How much money do you have? Just because you are floating your boat this month is not germaine to the question. How Much Money Do You Have/Posess? How long can you stay afloat if things turn to shit? How long can you/will you stay in business if you aren't profitable? Look at what has been "done" to America, all the offshoring/outsourcing and fact that nothing is really manufactured here any longer. Is this a going concern or a going out of business firesale operation? I caution anyone who can't see what is happening to take some time and investigate the situation. Survey your surrounding and Look Up! They never look up! Something is very likely about to drop right on your head! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 210370 United States 07/18/2008 11:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I keep reading about things like this all the time. in fact i have read them since 1998 but here is the thing. I am self-employed, have a house, wife and two kids. I earn an average wage. We spend same as everyone else. We have a wonderful life. We enjoy ourselves, eat well and drive two cars (old but good). Never ever in my life have i ever come across any problems financially. Never worried about doom and gloom. I have read these reports and yet in real life i don't come across any problems. So what gives? How can you in your wildest imagination, think, for one minute this will not effect you?......You're self employed...Great...But soon you will realize that you and your customers are running out of money...because it's a "Food Chain"...as your customer runs out of money so will you.....This will effect you soon enough......Whatever you read in 1998 about the "money" situation is small potatoes..This is your worst nightmare........ |
rathmussen User ID: 383866 Canada 07/18/2008 12:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ah, someone who is thinking about the folks who don't make a living wage any more. Quoting: BriZzNiTcH. yea, im one of those folks and I dont forget what it's like and never will. i was very lucky to land the job I have, and my boss is very generous with our pay. I thank my lucky stars every day and pray we dont end up closing over this mess the country is in. I give back to my community with whatever I can spare, and love to help people who need it. I even donated my car when I bought my new one, instead of selling it. Ill never be a rich greedy bastard! wow! that's fabulous! I hope we all come out of this era wiser and more benevolent like you. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 380667 United States 07/18/2008 12:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My husband and I are not wealthy but in the past we've worked hard and paid our bills. We are just like you. As of right now we only owe on our house and have even made double house payments. But we had a side family business that we closed last winter. We owed nothing on it...didn't owe the bank or any of our vendors. So why did we close? Because we could see our business drying up month after month. Oh sure, we'd have some good sales here and there but we could see this housing debacle get worse and worse and everything with it. We got the heck out while we noticed the herd had not quite caught onto the fact that our country was/is in a sorry state of affairs. Since then, three other downtown businesses have closed -- only they had financial difficulties...they spent money on expensive remodeling the year before and we knew they would eventually pay dearly for this. One man who owns an established store (has had it for over 25 years) was chatting with me after Christmas. I didn't want to ask him how his business was and then he told me they did "okay"... I told him he'd probably be all right...and then he said, "All I can say is thank God for good bankers..." And I was thinking....what the heck...is he taking out loans just to stay afloat??? Those of us in retail see it....people are tapped out for the most part...and the people who were spending money like drunken sailors were charging on their credit cards. I really do see a day when some people will go to use their cards and they will not be authorized to use them. Someone else posted that idea and I could also see that happening. My husband and I were the exception to the rule with our business...some people; if they would have been in our shoes would have tried to stay afloat...but when you can see this thing snowballing and getting dire... there was no way...The simple facts are that oil is still way too much and this affects EVERYTHING under the sun. And people in general do not have savings in the bank and they are taking money out of their 401k's...so when tshtf...imagine that everyone loses everything, unless you own gold perhaps. Even responsible people like ourselves will be in a real dilema. I mean, right now we're fine...we take our speedboat out...we have gone on vacations, etc...but sooner or later this house of cards is bound to fall. The biggest thing is coming to terms with it in your mind and being spiritually strong. No, I'd say not everything is right in River City. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 470129 United States 07/18/2008 12:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Those of us in retail see it....people are tapped out for the most part...and the people who were spending money like drunken sailors were charging on their credit cards. I really do see a day when some people will go to use their cards and they will not be authorized to use them. You are so spot on, it's not even funny. My parents are clueless. They recently took money out of their (slowly depleting) 401K to spend on my nephews this summer. The 401K is all they have besides Social Security. I tried to tell them to put some of that money aside in case the stock market bottoms out.....their response was, "the stock market always comes back". I think that is most people's mentality right now. They refuse to see the big picture about how everything in the economy is tied to credit. They will leave the 401K as it dwindles down to nothing because....."the stock market always comes back". People don't realize that the gains we've seen in stock values in the last 7 years are tied to credit, and credit is gone. We one see these numbers again for another 10 years. |
383623 User ID: 383623 United States 07/18/2008 12:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ok somebody who knows the market please explain why this so called rally in the stock markets and the falling price oil doesn't impress me. guess i've been hangin' around here too long. i am a DOOMER of the political and financial order with a little nuke paranoia thrown in. i am 54, dh is 68, retired but still does a little work. i work part-time and we rent a small house. we have 2 vehicles paid for and don't charge anything, ie i don't own anything like the ones that charge do. i think i represent most of the population. very little savings, the old man getting his insurance from medicare and i with nothing. i guess what i am trying to say is, whichever the market falls and whatever they charge for gas and home heating oil directly effects me. so why do i mistrust this so-called rally and lower oil prices????what is coming down the pike for me and ppl like me???? Highway to Hell |