Congressman assaults student on sidewalk * VIDEO *

Silly fantasies easily refuted:

Me: Tell me, do you think that violence is wrong?

Statist: Yes, violence is wrong except in self-defense.

Me: Agreed, except in self-defense. So tell me, how do you think that problems should be solved, if we should not use violence?

Statist: Well, I think that people should become more active in government, and that governments should do ABC, X, Y and Z.

Me: But how do you reconcile your objection to violence with your support of government programs, since government programs are paid for through taxation, which is coercive?

Statist: Huh? What are you talking about? Taxation is not coercive.

Me: Taxation is coercive, since if you do not pay your taxes, you are kidnapped at gunpoint and thrown in jail where if you try to escape, you are shot.

Statist: But this is a democracy, where we choose our own governments.

Me: Being offered a choice between two violent alternatives is not the same as being free to choose. If a store owner gets to choose which Mafia gang he pays 'protection' money to, can it be really argued that he is making a 'free' choice? If a woman can choose between two potential husbands but will be forced to marry one of them can she said to be really 'choosing' marriage? People can only freely choose governments, if they have the choice not to choose governments.

Statist: Well there is a 'social contract,' that binds people to their governments.

Me: There is no such thing as a 'social contract.' Unless they have been granted power of attorney, people cannot justly sign contracts on behalf of others. If one man has the power to unilaterally impose his will on another and call it a 'contract,' then logically a man can steal from a woman and call it 'charity.'

Statist: But I accept the social contract and so do you if you drive on the roads.

Me: First of all, your choice to honour a contract does not give you the right to force me to honour it. You can choose to buy a house, but you cannot justly force me to pay for it. If you forge my signature, I am not bound to honour the contract and I have never agreed to a 'social contract' of any kind. Secondly, it is true that I use government services, but that is irrelevant to the central moral question of coercion. If a slave accepts a meal from his master, is he condoning slavery?

Statist: I suppose not. But still, you implicitly accept the social contract by continuing to live in a country, as Socrates argued.

Me: Can I justly create a 'social contract' that allows me to rob anyone who lives in my neighborhood and say that if people continue to live in 'my' neighborhood, they are expressly consenting to my new social contract?

Statist: Well, no, but we are talking about governments, not individuals . . . .

Me: Is the government not composed of individuals? Is 'the government' not just a label for a group of individuals who claim the moral right to initiate force against others a right they define as evil for those they use violence against? If you take away all the individuals who compose 'the government,' do you still have a government?

Statist: I suppose not. But that is beside the point you say that taxation is coercive, but I have paid taxes my entire life, and I have never had a gun pointed at my head.

Me: Sure, and a prisoner is not shot if he does not try to escape. If a slave conforms to his master's wishes because of the threat of violence, the situation is utterly immoral. Does the Mafia have to actually burn your shop down for the threat to be violent?

Statist: No however, I do not accept the premise that the government uses force to extract taxation from citizens.

Me: All right - is there anything that the government does that you disagree with? Do you agree, for instance, with the invasion of Iraq ? [Keep asking until you find some program the statist finds abhorrent.]

Statist: Now, I think that the invasion of Iraq was morally wrong.

Me: Why?

Statist: Because Iraq had done nothing to threaten the US .

Me: Right, so it is an initiation of force, not self-defense. Now you do realize that the war in Iraq is only possible because you pay your taxes.

Statist: To some degree, of course.

Me: If the war in Iraq is morally wrong, but it is only possible because you pay your taxes and your taxes are not extracted from you through force then you are voluntarily funding and enabling that which you call evil. Can you explain that to me?

Statist: I pay my taxes because I'm a citizen of this country. If I disagree with the war, then I should run for office and try to stop it.

Me: All right, if you were against child abuse, would you voluntarily fund a group dedicated to abusing children?

Statist: Of course not!

Me: And if you did claim to be against child abuse, and you voluntarily funded a group dedicated to abusing children, and I said that you should stop doing that, and you replied that you would not but that if someone did oppose this abusive group, they should try to infiltrate this group, take control of it, and somehow stop it from abusing children, would that make any sense at all?

Statist: I guess not.

Me: If you were against the war in Iraq , but volunteered for it and agreed to fight without a salary, and spent your own money to cover all your expenses, do you understand that your position would be utterly incomprehensible? You would claim to be against something and then expend enormous amounts of time, effort, money and resources supporting it?

Statist: Yes, that would make little sense.

Me: Thus do you see that your position that the war in Iraq is a moral evil, but that you are voluntarily funding it through your taxes, makes no sense at all? If the war in Iraq is a moral evil, but is only enabled through your voluntary funding, then continuing to fund it is to openly admit that it is not a moral evil. If you are forced to fund the war in Iraq , you can maintain that it is a moral evil, because it is the initiation of the use of force. However, the taxation that is also the initiation of the use of force against you must also be a moral evil, because you are forced to fund the initiation of force against others. Thus either taxation is coercion, or you are the worst form of moral hypocrite, by voluntarily supporting that which you call evil. Does that make sense?

Statist: I can certainly see that position.

Me: Can you find any logical flaws in my position?

Statist: No, but I still think that you are wrong.

Me: Well, I'm certainly glad that you are reading this article, rather than debating me directly, because as I said at the beginning, life is far too short to waste time arguing with fools."

[link to www.strike-the-root.com]

This isn't a republican/democrat problem. This goes beyond that, human beings need to have more respect for each other plain and simple.

"But he has no right to lay hands on someone showing nothing more threatening than curiosity and a camera."

Alan Keyes, "NC Congressman Etheridge- Drunk with power?"
[link to loyaltoliberty.com]

good article, worth a read

When did that first part happen?

Amusing comment, none-the-less.

I've been arrested for doing less. :(

I surely do not.

Please try to keep your "representation" (gang of criminals) limited to acting upon only yourself.
:)

This is why we are in trouble.

People believe the lie that we are not in charge so we let criminals represent us and make the laws that govern our lives.

We are in charge, all we have to do is stand up and do it.

the fantasy is that we are powerless.

All we need do is reclaim it.

"But this is a democracy, where we choose our own governments."

This is BULL SHIT!!! Article 4 Section 4 of the constitution says we are a Republic. Since they believe we are a Democracy, they do not preserve the rights of the individual or the right to own property. We own no property. They take it away from you at will. This is the very nucleus of what is wrong with our country. When you can not own property you are a slave, you are the property!!!!!!!!!!!!

“I have seen the video posted on several blogs. I deeply and profoundly regret my reaction and I apologize to all involved. Throughout my many years of service to the people of North Carolina, I have always tried to treat people from all viewpoints with respect. No matter how intrusive and partisan our politics can become, this does not justify a poor response. I have and I will always work to promote a civil public discourse.”

Rep. Bob Etheridge (NC-02)

[link to etheridge.house.gov]

"James Madison defined republic in terms of representative democracy as opposed to direct democracy[6]"
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

But yes, you are correct that in a Republic or other type of democracy the idea that you choose your own government is "BULL SHIT."
:)



'Preserving the rights of the individual or the right to own property' does not generally happen in a Republic either.



Which is called for in the Constitution, of course.



So you are opposed to all unjust confiscations of property? Great. This means, of course, you are opposed to the Constitution which calls for precisely that.

According to the Constitution, you are correct about that.

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises"



So you reject the Constitution for violating this principal, correct?

I hope this is not a stance you take a contradictory position on.
:)

That's why 'democracy' is a fraud. I'd rather live in a communist 'utopia' than a full fledged democracy. Yet TPTB have done a fine job teaching the dumb Americans that they live in a democracy. Bush had millions of Iraqis and millions of Afghani's killed to spread 'democracy' to those nations. Fraud, Fraud, fraud.

ALL Democracy does is say: "you get to vote... here's a list of the turds. Choose one of them.'' So you vote. Then, as the country goes down the toilet they say: "Hey, but you voted for them! It is YOUR Fault!!".

Democracy. A giant fraud against man.

Etheridge's new theme song:

[link to www.youtube.com]

lol that ran through my head too
someone should auto-tune him and do a remix

He's completely drunk or on pills....no doubt

Democracy: Two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Thank you, saved me from typing it.

Well, then YOU get what YOU deserve since you've accepted your fate and lot in life, loser !!!

.

Huh? Could you explain? What have I accepted? Your statement doesn't really make much sense.

Perhaps it is just that you were faced with some uncomfortable truth(s) so you went on an insulting rant like one might expect from a child...

That is how your post comes off anyway.
:)

[link to www.youtube.com]

dump the false dichotomies

dems, repubs both work for the corporation

this is why we keep going back and forth with a democratic majority and then the next time a republican majority

and ALL THE TIME WE GET SCREWED

vote third party or at least for some nobody

quit putting the same damn jerks in!

That is part of playing into the 'game'.

The Truth About Voting (Democracy)

[link to www.youtube.com]

[youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]

Good post ... this AC gets it.

Therefore, STOP VOTING. Your vote (among other things) is your voluntary consent to be goverened and subject to the jurisdiction of Congress. Am I the only guy who gets this?

What if they held an election and nobody showed up?

no the vote CAN count

you have to demand paper ballots

and get involved as an election official counting the paper ballots

they don't have total control yet

but they will if we do nothing

I sure wish you would have put his last name in the thread title.