THE TWO WITNESSES/ THE TWO OLIVE TREES/ AND THE 144000 PART # 2 & PART # 3 "COMPLETED!" THANK YOU

Thank you friend for this. I hope it reaches the lost.

Time is short!

Though we are in sin, each of us has the power to use free will to find His Power, His Word, His Strength. There will come a time when man will no longer have the oppurtunity to place faith "without sight" in the Creator, Almighty God.

There will come a come when every eye shall see Him, and thus rendering the act of faith without sight to no longer be taken.

Those who have faith "without sight", before every eye shall "see" Him, surely the fruits of their labor will blossom forth with gardens of praise and worship. Everlasting thankfulness.

But those who "see" Him, without having that faith "without sight. What will they have? surely the shame of the wind of antichrist and sin that they have retained shall transform into torment, the wind of sin forever entangled into their own, rising up like smoke for all eternity.

Those my brother, those are the ones we must preach to and reach. I don't wish that shame on anyone!

God bless!

Thank you for the encouragement friend..It is time consuming getting the info together for fellow believers to learn but most just come to scorn and debate.I appreciate you and blessings to you

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/07/2012 02:54 PM

This wonderful information, I've always been intrigued by the 2 witnesses, and the 2 olive trees, candle stick / 2 candlesticks.

After reading through, it seems we can be sure of the following:

the
2 olive trees are 2 annointed ones

the 2 witnesses are those 2 olive trees and 2 candlesticks as well

Very revealing information detailing that the 2 witnesses ARE the 2 olive trees but also 2 candlesticks

thus the 2 witnesses seem to comprise 4 entities

This is where I have some questions…

1) Is there actually 3 candlesticks? (Zachariah mentions 1 candlestick “between” the 2 olive trees, whereas Revelation describes 2 olive trees as the 2 witnesses that are also 2 candlesticks. )

if these 2 books are describing the same 2 olive trees, it seems that we have 2 candlesticks surrounding another candlestick.


2)can man really interpret the 2 Olive Trees as "the Word" and "Holy Spirit" simply from the knowledge that they are “anointed“ and “witnesses“?

Very well thought out.

i have only up to chapter 4 in the book of Ruth.... ???

hey shamar! I read esther chapter 8 it and it is very much to the nature of joel chapter 2

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/07/2012 05:50 PM

I think you meant esther?

Since we are informed there are two olive trees and two lampstands then each of the witnesses must have a dual nature.

NOTES:In respect to the children of Israel a natural division exists and this can be seen in relation to the old and new covenants and also there being a rift between the two kingdoms as shown from scriptures below

Reference:Isaiah Chapter 11
11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

11:13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

11:14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

Hi again OP, since reading your posts I have been researching and reading all day!

You say you believe the identity of these 2 olive trees/2 witnesses are the Word of God and the Holy Spirit.

And from 1 John 5:7 like you pointed out in your earlier posts, The Word and Holy Spirit are in fact 2 of the 3 witnesses that are in heaven.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Then, in the next verse we learn of 3 more witnesses in the Earth.

8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

I'm just wondering how we can have assurance from the Word instead of interpretation that the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11:4 are the Word and the Holy Spirit witnesses instead of 1 or 2 of the other 4 witnesses.

I'm not saying you're wrong by any means but after reading the following verse below, do you think it's possible that they could be 2 of the 3 witnesses of "the earth" instead of heaven?

Revelation 11:4
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

These 2 witnesses are standing before the God "of the earth", that's why I'm not sure if they are of the 3 earth witnesses instead of those from heaven.

What do you think OP?

That would really change alot.

Because if the Holy Spirit was one of the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11:4, I don't believe that the Holy Spirit witness could be 1 of the 2 that are killed in Revelation 11:7....

7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

and secondly, why would God send the Spirit of Life to enter into the Holy Spirit witness when the 2 witnesses are resurrected in Revelation 11:11?

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.


aren't the Spirit of life and the Holy Spirit the same?


this is why I tend to think the 2 are earth witnesses.

Thanks for the info and great post!

i think that maybe this is where the heavens meet the earth....2 of the witnesses are blood and water.... and we saw both of these meet the spirit at our Messiah's crucifixion......

But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

the third witness is the Ruach...

the witnesses the word and the spirit of God feeds the church which are the seven candle sticks.

Long ago not all men had the holy spirit and a persoanl walk with "the most high" except for the prophets.

WHEN MESSIAH CAME THAT CHANGED FOR TRUE AND HONOURABLE BELIEVERS eg AT PENTECOST THE HOLY SPIRT WAS ASSIGNED TO ALL WHO HONOUR AND SERVE THE FATHER.THESE MEN WHO WERE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT WAS ABLE TO RAISE THE DEAD AND REBUKE SPIRITS JUST LIKE MESSIAH.tHE SAME WILL HAPPEN TO ISRAEL IN THE LAST DAYS THEY WILL WAKE UP AND PROPHESY AND DO WOnDEROUS MIRACLES TO HELP SINNERS GET BACK TO THE WORD

There will be the revival of the lost tribes being two kingdoms and they will be filled with the spirit of the most high ..Read ezekiel chapter 37


The witnesses in heaven abides in the temple of God which are true believers on earth.Remember the father lives not in physical temples made with hands.True beleivers are the temple of the holy spirit of the father and his word abiding in their hearts.


Now because israel is the apple of his eye and his people displaced he will revive them as promised and as I have shown in the scriptures in the thread


I again will prove to you who he says will be his witnesses


isaiah chp 43
43:10 ***Ye are my witnesses***, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


isaiah chp 44
44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.


Follow the precepts of the bible and the verses I reference even from the first thread.


You have to undestand zecharia chapter 2 and other scriptures which mention the measuring. What are they mesauring? I touched on all this in the thread but will galdly review with you...

2:1 I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.

2:2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.

2:3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,

2:4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:

2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.


revelation chapter 11
11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth


revelation chapter 21 verse
21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel

ALL THE VISIONS ARE COMMON HE THEY ARE ALL MEASURING THE 144000.


Again yes! the witnesses on earth are the two kingdoms who willl have the word in their mouth and the spirit of the most high God




Deutoronomy chapter 7.
7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people

o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o--
*The Divided Kingdoms*
Northern Kingdom
[10] Tribes
The Northen Kingdom, made up of ten [10} tribes;which are :Asher,Zebuln,Issacher,Mannasseh,Naphtali,Dan,Ephraim,Gad,Reu​ben,Simeon.


"Israel" also known as Ephraim is referred to as the Northern Kingdom. After the death of King Solomon, the nation then known as Israel was divided into two [2] kingdoms, the Northern Kingdom, and the Southern Kingdom.

The Southern Kingdom,was made up of two [2] tribes, Judah and Benjamin.

First three [3] daynasties lasted for fifty [50] years.

*SPLIT KINGDOM*




King Jer-o-bo-am 1st.

First Daynasty

First King

Jer-o-bo-am 1st. The first king to reign over the ten [10]Northen Tribes of Israel after the death of King Solomon.Jer-o-bo-am 1st.the son of Nebat,an Ephrathite, of Zereda; he was King Solomon's servant. King Solomon made Jer-o-bo-am 1st. ruler over his forced labor and the house of Joseph. Jer-o-bo-am 1st. also built Millo, and closed the breaches of the City of David.


Prophet A-hi' jah

1Kings 11:26;27;28
The prophet during the time of King Solomon's reign was A-hi'jah,the son of A-hi-tub and grandson of Eli; who was at Shi-loh; he told Jer-o-bo-am 1st. that God was going to give him the ten [10] Northern Tribes of Israel; to rule,after the death of King Solomon.


Reason
The reason for doing this was not for Jeroboam 1st.sake or good character,nor deserts, but for the chasting of King Solomon's apostasy and because King Solomon, and many of his family; with many of of his people, have forsaken; Me, and worshipped Ash-to-reth the goddess of the Zi-do-ni-ans, Che-mosh the god of the Mo-ab-ites, and Mil-com, the god of the children Am-mon and have not walked in My ways [1Kings 11:33]. Think not to make an attempt upon the two [2] Tribes,Benjamin and Judah. Neither think that David was rejected as King Saul.

Neither think to fail or support and keep in reputation the House of David; for out of the House of David,the Messiah must rise.Destroy it not because that blessing is in the House of David. Always do what's right and I [God] will build a sure house for thee.

King Solomon finds out that God,is going to rent the kingdom; out of his hands, and give ten [10] tribes to Jer-o-bo-am 1st. to rule over. And that King David would always have a kingdom,because God said"I have chosen David for My servants sake, for David has kept My commandments and statutes".

When King Solomon, heard that God had given Jer-o-bo-am 1st. ten [10] tribes to rule over, he sought to kill Jer-o-bo-am 1st. As soon as Jer-o-bo-am 1st. heard that King Solomon, sought to kill him; he fled to Egypt and there he stayed untill the death of King Solomon [1Kings 11:40].
O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O--O--





Then again; many of you who like to cherry pick Pauls writings. Here is what paul had to say about his people!

Romans chapter 11
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.





NOTES: We clearly see that the father has been and is preserving a remnant for the last day as evident in revelation chapter 8 from since pauls time until the time of the gentiles come to a full there will be 144000 remnant Israelites who kept the ways of the most high and did not corrupt the teachings and laws of the most high.

The book of revelation chapter 7
7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.





7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/07/2012 10:37 PM

Thank you so much for the pm Neim-Ya'shar to let me know this was finished. I can't respond to pm's as I am not a paid member, at least I guess that is why. Blessings!!

Thanks! I'm glad you mentioned the 2 kingdoms, this has brought some incredible information to my mind.

The 2 witnesses, their symbolic words, and true meaning is fascinating. I have a feeling there is even more understanding to be found within all this.

But yes you are completely right!

Through Jesus' sacrifice we are "covered" by water & blood when we use our granted free will to choose so, thus seeking and inviting God's Word and Holy Spirit witnesses to flow inside us and direct our lives, which unites even gentiles unto the eternal promises offered unto the 2 kingdoms, enabling all 3 to become one body of Christ, one church, a light to shine unto the world to help the lost see how to overcome death, be resurrected, and ultimately to ascend into heaven.

Blessings to you and all brethren! I pray that His knowledge and Wisdom continue to reveal the narrow path so that others can join us in our quest and search for Him, He that grants everlasting peace and connects our heavenly family in love, hope and faith.

You are welcome...The bible is in bits and pieces ,here and there.It is our responsibily to search it out and put it all together.

Not a problem and I hope it brings light to your spirit.You may not grasp it all at first but keep reading the verses and prayer will help.

That is what happens when too many authors are involved.

Just like too many cooks ....

yep but the Eh'Yeh left two or three scriptures to confirm each other on every topic that may arise.That is why men failed in distorting certain truths.Only the wise will search out the answers diligently

Thread: THE 7 YEAR TRIBULATION HOAX! WE ARE IN TRIBULATION SINCE 70AD TILL NOW

You are so thorough in putting all of this information together.

I admire your posts because you really go out of your way to understand the bible the way it is really written.



Thank you for this

you are very welcome and anytime

hi how are you?

Doing well. Studying as I get a chance.

Neim, I wanted to share something about these 2 witnessess (also symbolized as 2 olive trees) and more specifically the fire that proceeds from their mouth in Revelation 11:5 and the placement of it's issuance in accordance with all these symbols:

2 Witnesses, 2 Olive Trees, 2 Candlesticks, 2 Prophets

In Revelation, we discover they are also 2 candlesticks and 2 prophets. So with that additional information and, assuming that they are synonymous with the 2 olive trees found in theVision of Zechariah which seems to also detail "another" candlestick in between those 2 olive trees (2 candlesticks). So we now have 3 candlesticks all together...

-2 Candlesticks being the faithful witnesses of the 2 Israelite Kingdoms that were birthed in the era of the Old Covenant/Old Testament from which many witnesses and prophets emerged out of.
-The 3rd Candlestick of Zechariah appears to be very similar to the one found in Revelation. Both having 7 lamps, which is described in Revelation as the 7 churches, thus a representation of the New Covenant/New Testament Church which holds onto extended doctrine which includes the New Testament prophets as well as ancient and present day witnesses.

If all these visions are connected properly and valid dotrine, we now have 2 Kingdoms, 2 vessels of olive oil being emptied, transferred, connected, AND unified into 1 Golden Vessel, the New Covenant/New Testament Church, which through he pouring out of Jesus' precious blood, enables both Israelites and Gentiles alike to partake of the same promises that are extended to all of mankind because of His sacrifice...

Allowing all men to become part of that Golden Candlestick, witnesses inside a church vessel, that pumps with olive oil, becoming the light of the world.


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

So in the end, all faithful believers are and have part of the 2 kingdoms/2 witnesses flowing inside them, because the 2 kingdom's essence including their blessings are poured together into the Golden Candlestick, through the pouring of Jesus' blood, which creates the unified group of church witnesses.Our duty as witnesses includes preaching God's Word which includes His words of prophecy.

Could this be the fire that proceeds from the witnesses' mouth? The fire or rather light that shines before the whole world and devours our enemy?

the acceptance into the hebraic teachings of the most high is for all nations to part take off and once jewish or gentile adhere to his laws and statutes yes they will all be grafted into the olive tree.

Despite this fact there is a special plan for the lost tribes and they are separated from all others even off the israelites.They have a special commission in the new temple of the most high.

So that is why paul made the comment there is no difference between jewish or gentile for those who are in christ,,meaning all who believe are seen as one body but out of that body the israel as a physical nation will rule in the temple 144000

I wonder, when the 2 witnesses (2 kingdoms) are killed by Apollyon, what do you suppose happens to the candlestick?

It seems odd that he would choose to kill those "2 Kingdoms" instead of going straight for the candlestick with 7 lamps "in between" the 2 Olive trees, which represents all the witnesses of the Church.

Why does he choose to kill those 2? Maybe it has to do more with the very "essence" of Revelation itself in accordance with eternity perhaps. There seems to be something there..

the witnesses are not to indvidual people but two kingdoms judah and israel which comprise the 12 tribes

The sixth seal in revelation you will see where the messiah telss the angels hurt not the earth till he seals the saints 144000. Then when you get to revelation 11 he says come up hither and a cloud took them to heaven. Then in revealtion chapter 14 you see them with the messiah and it says they follow him wherever he goes.

The candlestick will be of all nations and tongues that is another multitude in white who obey and keep the commandments.They will all be of one mind loving the father and the son

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/10/2012 03:19 PM