If you value your childs sexuality never leave them in the care of homosexuals

I'm not sure if they listed the names of the boys in the study. I would doubt it since the subjects of studies, as with medical care, are usually keep confidential.

The unique thing about the Reiner study is that it occurred before Marriage Equality for Gay and Lesbian Americans became a political issue. There was no great monetary advantage to producing results.

If you don't like that study here is one on the actual effectiveness of reparative therapy. Or the effectiveness or turning homosexuals into heterosexuals. This study is one of the reasons Exodus International no longer claims that gays can change their sexual orientation.

Report on Reparative Therapy

Ariel Shidlo and Michael Schroeder found in "Changing Sexual Orientation: A Consumer's Report", a peer-reviewed study published in 2002, that 88% of participants failed to achieve a sustained change in their sexual behavior and 3% reported changing their orientation to heterosexual.

The remainder reported either losing all sexual drive or attempting to remain celibate, with no change in attraction. Some of the participants who failed felt a sense of shame and had gone through conversion therapy programs for many years. Others who failed believed that therapy was worthwhile and valuable.

Shidlo and Schroeder also reported that many respondents were harmed by the attempt to change. Of the 8 respondents (out of a sample of 202) who reported a change in sexual orientation, 7 worked as ex-gay counselors or group leaders.

In other words the only people claiming that homosexuality can be changed are those making money off the claim.

THIS^^^

exactly. they have a choice. live the gay lifestyle or not.

NARTH is a religious group formed by Focus on the Family. It purpose is to justify christian hatred against Gay and Lesbian Americans. Exodus International was also a group formed by Focus on the Family. That ministry has recently came out and said that gays are born gay and homosexuality cannot be changed.

Every accredited medical, psychological and scientific institution in the United States agrees that homosexuality and heterosexuality are both normal, natural and unchangeable sexual orientations.

Science has shown that homosexuality, at least in men, is a genetic trait like skin color and cannot be changed. It is not a lifestyle choice nor a learned behavior.

NARTH is a religious group formed by Focus on the Family. It purpose is to justify christian hatred against Gay and Lesbian Americans. Exodus International was also a group formed by Focus on the Family. That ministry has recently came out and said that gays are born gay and homosexuality cannot be changed.

Every accredited medical, psychological and scientific institution in the United States agrees that homosexuality and heterosexuality are both normal, natural and unchangeable sexual orientations.

Science has shown that homosexuality, at least in men, is a genetic trait like skin color and cannot be changed. It is not a lifestyle choice nor a learned behavior.

Link please?

Here is the link to the study that shows homosexuality is a genetic trait. Like skin color, homosexuality is a genetic trait that cannot be changed.

[link to www.medicaldaily.com]

Since homosexuality is a genetic trait it bring up the question as to why god would create homosexuality then condemn homosexuals to death.

No it hasn't. What about traits linked to illness?. Can be changed or not ?.

You are obsessed with that link . Give us something meaty.

I'd like to ask why discovering gay gene would even be necessary. Does knowing there's a "gene" change our commitment to love and accept people different than ourselves?

Is God's mandate to love and accept someone dependent on "proof" when a person who is constantly attacked by religion says, "God made me this way!"

Is it our place to judge if that person was REALLY made that way by God if they are healthy, happy, and whole?

What if that person's whole life and reason for saying "God made me this way" is based around love, and love for another?

Well, that love and the defense of that love is the case for LGBT people. I actually think it would be a bad thing if a "gay gene" were conclusively proven, because then all the biased religious people will start looking for a physical cure or a way to change it-- they'll treat it like a genetic flaw rather than the amazing gift that love really is.

You have to accept that healthy lesbian and gay people will tell you they are healthy and happy in a same-gender relationship, genes or not. Listen. Love. Accept.

Why should a gene make the difference between you accepting them and spreading mistrust about them?

------------

But, this isn't about accepting or not is it? It's about the imperialism exerted by Christianity. The kind of Christianity that is being talked about here is the kind that expects people to conform to one interpretation and image of what's beautiful, good, and right.

Fortunately for the world, there are many interpretations of what is good, beautiful, and right. Black is beautiful. Orange is beautiful. Gay is beautiful. Cross-dressing is beautiful. White is beautiful. Poor is beautiful. Rich is beautiful. Disabled is beautiful. Blind is beautiful. Mentally handicapped is beautiful.

All people are beautiful.

To say they're not, and to say that they have to live up to your expectations of right and beauty is to "imperialize" them. It's to subject them to your will, your understanding, and your vision of God.

My vision of God is much more open to the diversity and beauty of the world, and I invite you to see God in that vast, colorful rainbow as well.

God is in the rainbow. God is diverse, and is the gay person, the black person, the Muslim, and the jewish... And, even the Christian who needs to see beyond their own self-replication.

Basic psychology will say that one of the most basic healthy attitudes is, "I'm okay, you're okay." The attitude of spiritually destructive religion today says,"I'm okay, you're oot okay."

If God only loves people who look, act, feel, and believe the same, then God hates the people of the world.

Instead, God loves the world. :)

God loves you.

Gay is beautiful.

Thank you.

Last Edited by FireSpirit on 07/24/2012 07:38 PM

I can love people but I don't have to accept their behavior as normal.

Nothing scientific in that article.....all hypotheses and conjecture.

That's true-- you don't have to accept anybody as normal you don't want to-- even when the best psychological minds in the world think gay is normal.

BUT-- those same minds will say the attitude of "I'm okay, you're not okay" is mentally ill.

I say this for your edification, because religion can spread very, very unhealthy attitudes toward others.

It was used the same way to justify slavery and the superiority of the white race for centuries.

Last Edited by FireSpirit on 07/24/2012 07:42 PM

^^^^^

My sentiments EXACTLY

I have a confession to make. I'm a Christian who used to believe homosexuality was a sin.

I preached it on the street corners, and I wrote about it on the Internet. I told people "there is a way that seems right to a man but in the end it leads to death."

I knew every scripture to pull out, every right thing to say, and every stone to upturn.

And you know what? I was wrong.

I realized that all I was doing was trying to recreate my own image of what the world was supposed to look like. I re-examined the scriptures, and found that if you look deeply enough into the heart of God, there really is no condemnation.

I learned: As much as I was not loving people, I was not loving God. As much as I denied myself the ability to see the beauty in others, I lacked compassion and would not allow myself to receive the love of God.

I'm not saying this as somebody superior. I'm saying this as somebody with experience with love and compassion who knows I was incomplete before.

I really did hate, but I didn't think it was hate. I thought it was the justifiable love of God being expressed through saving people from Hell.

Well, I was wrong. I was so wrong.

And eventually, I realized the source of all the fighting, preaching and pain was because I'm gay myself. It was painful. I hated myself, and thought God had abandoned me to feel these feelings... But as time went on God revealed to me that my life was created as beautifully as anyone else's.

My coming out to myself led to other revelations from God-- people of other faiths aren't going to Hell, nor are they deceived. God has just revealed him/herself in a different way to these people, and as much as I accept them I am accepting myself.

I am a better, more compassionate, more complete person than I ever was before, because I was able to accept others, and then see God's plan for my life, and then accept even more people.

Compassion and understanding grows. :) It heals.

I opened my eyes, and now I see. :) And God IS BEAUTIFUL!


--FireSpirit, a former Fundamentalist Christian who, like Saul on the road, changed.

Last Edited by FireSpirit on 07/24/2012 07:52 PM

Compassion is only te beginning, friend. True love points people to Christ....in all honesty

I don't have the I'm okay and you are not attitude because I don't know people's hearts. But I can have the I am okay but I am not going to accept your behavior attitude. Nothing wrong with that.

Yes, because gay people procreate and have gay children.. You are sooo infantile! Pathetic excuse for an 'enlightened' individual if you will.

Because parents who have 50 baby daddies are soooo superior to gay parents.. gay parents who must really THINK about having children and loving them and not just by accident.

I am soooo sick of the homophobia on this board. F u homophobes.

Or, DUH, your 'god' doesnt and NEVER existed in the first place.. Damn, amazing how SCIENCE works.

The people who have these baby daddy's are living an immoral life and are most likely liars and cheats. They are no better than others who are living immoral lives.

And I am no homophobe because I am not afraid of gays or anyone living immoral lifestyles. Not condoning certain behaviors is much different than being afraid of certain behaviors.

So you can say for a fact that spirit beings do not exist? Just because something doesn't have a physical body doesn't mean they aren't real. We just didn't show up on this planet on our own.

THANK YOU, OP. Encore for this thread.

The science is there you are just being a typical christian and refusing to recognize facts that contradict the bible. The fact is that homosexuality, in males at least, is a genetic trait that cannot be changed.

This of course bring up the question as to why god created homosexuality then condemned homosexuals to death?

If you are really wanting an in-depth look at the science behind the article I suggest you check the full study published at the Journal of Sexual Medicine. Science has known for years that homosexuality was a genetic trait we are now starting to see the mechanisms behind why it is a beneficial genetic trait.

Here is the study in a nutshell:

The gene that causes homosexuality is passed down and carried through the mothers side of the family. The genetic variation that causes homosexuality offers distinct advantages to a particular family through increased procreation in the females. Having homosexual offspring increases the survivability of the "tribe" by creating a group who can help provide for the whole without creating more children.

Scientists are not agreeing there is a gay gene. And so far they haven't found one or else they could correct it.

I agree completely. Its like turning them into gays, how sad 4 them.

My last response will be this..

I am a sinner, saved by grace. The same sins that disgust and grieve the Lord , are the same sins that He came here to die for.

NO difference....sin is sin.

It's like me throwing myself into the fire and burning to death,to save the Aurora mass murderer. FULLY KNOWING just who he is and what he has done. THAT is LOVE, friends. Jesus died for us while we were yet sinners. We do disservice to Him to mock and question behavior that offends Him . I try daily to walk with Him and please Him for what His sacrifice has secured for me.I am eternally grateful ro Him.

There is a way out of sinful behavior...Christ's love will lead us out.....He who is set free, is free indeed.

Amen Sis,
I really hate the the sin of homosexuality and struggle with hating them that do it. I despise the things I used to do and things I still do. The closer we get to God the more we get the mind of Christ and hate the sin and try to love the sinner.

sorry buddy the science is not there, and we don't have to be christian at all to point it out. you can paste your singular link as much as you like, i'm sure it helps you sleep at night. there is no way any amount of studies, papers, inquests or reports will be able to establish that homosexuality is normal or that it is healthy for that destructive and unhealthy lifestyle to be crammed down people's throats (no pun intended) through the media, the movies, music, television and public schools.

It must have taken you many years to convince yourself of this. Well done! I guess you blame your mother for your deviance then right?

Last Edited by Anubis on 07/24/2012 11:15 PM