why does christian dogmatic belief interject itself into so many threads?

Doctrine, however, would be basic, essential, fundamental truths that never change.

It is NOT opinion.

Example: Jesus rose from the dead.


This is Christian doctrine. It will never change,a because once you do, it changes the essence of Christianity.

concise oxford has this for "doctrine"

- what is taught, body of instruction; religious, political, scientific, etc., belief, dogma or tenet.

for dogma it has

" principle, tenet, doctrinal system, esp as laid down by authority of the church, arrogant declaration of opinion.



I'm not sure how it makes a difference whether it is dogma or doctrine, both are beliefs, founded in well, belief, not necessarily factual, possibly (probably) the speakers "truth" but everyone's?

i disagree

we have "laws of thermodynamics" that are true and are scientific doctrine but most scientists will readily admit that conditions might change to alter perspective

which is prolly why tom robbins novel "another roadside attraction" probes the wrangle of "dissolving" doctrine to mild rancor

Jesus Rose from the dead is a belief, an opinion. It may be strongly held, it may be faithfully beieved, but it doesn't become a fact through wanting or believing it hard enough.

I am absolutely open to the notion he rose from the dead, even lived. My doubt does not make you right, just as your lack of doubt doesn't make me wrong.

I admire your strength of conviction, but it is still an opinion

Thank you for this Kay

" It will never change,a because once you do, it changes the essence of Christianity."

I'm thanking you because I have oft wondered at some Christians ( by no means all) that seem to zealously cling to their belief. It may be that if they allow doubt to seep in, they fear the abyss that is left.

Like I said before, it is a semantical issue.

The word, "Dogma" or "Dogmatic" has a negative attitude towards it. "Arrogant" like the Oxford says. Dogma gets pushed on people.

I've heard many a Christian pastor say, "Let's not get dogmatic about it."

Because it has an attitude of being stubborn about it, when it is a side-issue.

The issue of 'tithing' is dogma. Nowhere in the New Testament does it say one should 'tithe' 10% of earnings.

Here is what the New Testament says about giving financially:

2 Corinthians 9:7


Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


====================

that is exactly right miss sophia...please read "another roadside attraction" ill not spoil it for you, but youll laugh your arse off and ponder the abyss you just referenced....and it comes down to three people to decide whther or not to blow the lid off of the doctrine

Remember Sophia, a Christian 'lives by faith', so if they don't hold to what they belief (i.e. by faith), then they have nothing.

There are no rules to cling to, no person we are allowed to call 'Father', no intercessor on Earth we are allowed to depend upon. No 'Pillars of Faith' no absolution, no restitution, and it is true: WE DO NOTHING to earn the gift of grace.

So, we live by faith.

There are not many doctrines that we hold, but they are immutable.

I understand what you are saying kay, about faith and immutable.

En

So many books, only two eyes!

Jesus Rose from the dead is a belief, an opinion.

------------------


Both dogma and doctrine are beliefs.

But it is inaccurate to call doctrine opinion.

Kay

Bear with me. What do you mean when you say "belief"? You've got me wondering about the difference between opinion and belief. I also know that all this is semantics, but as this thread has unfolded on this and the last page, by loooking at the definitions I think we might be getting closer to understanding where the other is coming from?

reading,, learning, peace,,, bump

It is a bit surprising to see this thread.....lol

Let's see , "why does christian dogmatic belief interject itself into so many threads"...


Hmm... How about this is called "Godlike Productions"...Ok...so it is foundationally religious or spiritual . Hmmm

Now, since the U.S. was founded on the principles of organized CHRISTIAN religion and is still by far Christian Based...hmmm.

Yah, it is so odd that Christians post their point of view on a God like forum in a predominantly Christian nation...so very odd...

en regalia:

Did you know there is a song titled _Peaches en Regalia_ by Frank Zappa?
Instumental, jazzy ditty, as I remember. But I digress.

Sophia

<<Bear with me. What do you mean when you say "belief"? You've got me wondering about the difference between opinion and belief. I also know that all this is semantics, but as this thread has unfolded on this and the last page, by loooking at the definitions I think we might be getting closer to understanding where the other is coming from?<<

You, didn't ask me, but here is my _opinion_.

I say, "I BELIEVE in God."
You say, "That's your OPINION."
I say, "Yes, my OPINION is there is a God. That's what I BELIEVE."
You say, "I don't BELIEVE that."
I say, "Well, that's your OPINION."

I think belief is internal, opinion is external. Does that even make sense?

I probably fail from time to time at this, but I try to not throw in a biblical opinion unless I feel it *** adds *** something to the topic. I would not generally troll around in threads looking to make a confrontational post, but if I know a scripture that helps validate someone, I am likely to post it.

Yes, Sheep, that makes perfect sense.

I know that the true issue is the difference between DOGMA and DOCTRINE.

Because dogma is as Concise says, 'arrogant'.

Doctrine is neutral, however, and you can have 'military' doctrine and 'international' doctrine. It's not necessarily religious.

Dogma, however is a set of beliefs that don't necessarily come from any foundation. I think that on some things, cultural issues, you must take a stand, (ie dancing, drinking, smoking, dating) because your parishioners will ask you what they should do at times. They become dogmatic when they become stubborn, ill fitted for true Biblical interpretation, and unsound.

Our culture, our society changes, and for this reason, we have freedom. God created the world, He knows this. That is why we have principles, doctrine, essentials, fundamentals.

The rest, well - it is debatable. That is why the Bible must be read with proper exegesis - ie in context!

I am absolutely open to the notion he rose from the dead, even lived. My doubt does not make you right, just as your lack of doubt doesn't make me wrong.

I admire your strength of conviction, but it is still an opinion

-----------------------


Sophia, I have used that argument many times myself to prove a 'point'.

The problem comes into play with this argument when one has to admit that when it comes to historical 'facts'...it must all be regarded as fallable at best.

If one says that 'Christ' is a fictional character ...they must also say that many historical 'facts' must then be fiction.

It is actually more accurate to say that history is virtually unprovable. Those that recorded history always did so from their point of view and many times altered by their political, religious, and personal motivations.

It is also inaccurate to denounce the experiences of others as false.

If a person says that they have spoken to Christ, face to face, It is ignorant to tell them they are self deluded or outright lying...because YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEY EXPERIENCED.

Just because something does not fit your personal belief system does not validate or invalidate ANYTHING.

The most honest thing anyone can really say in response is . "I Don't Know."

Using historical documents does lead to an amount of truth, but never the whole truth.

But assuming history to be false...or true is to simply ABUSE that which is written in order to validate vain belief.

One interesting thing about Christ...if Christ never lived...why does the entire world reckon time using his life span as the definite standard?

Elijah, we don't interject dogma.

We don't tell people, 'Hey, don't drink, God says not to!'

We don't say, "Hey, stop living together with that girl! You living in sin!"

We don't do it.

But, when we get threads that confuse Christian beliefs, you better believe it, I am all over it.

Only because some people only remember what they heard when they were kids, and they don't realize that they couldn't understand adult concepts when they were kids. So they have misunderstandings.

who cares


Andrew

--
Andrew
www.dancingonthebrink.com

61291:

>>who cares<<

That's your *opinion.*

Nothing was directed at you Kay. I was referring to why an when I throw in scripture.

I was saying that no one, not you or anyone else really goes on about dogma here.

Non-Christians don't have to suffer that here. We're all (especially you - maybe less me) pretty polite.

I say, "I BELIEVE in God."
You say, "That's your OPINION."
I say, "You *MUST* BELIEVE in God."
You say, "That's DOGMATIC".

Isn't that the issue? You must, you have to, you need to, you are required to...

"We're all (especially you - maybe less me) pretty polite."

Thank you very much. It is my intent to be respectful, but surely one day someone will push my button.

maybe one day God will push your button....that will be an educational day

Elijah's gotta button.
Elijah's gotta button.

I probably fail from time to time at this, but I try to not throw in a biblical opinion unless I feel it *** adds *** something to the topic. I would not generally troll around in threads looking to make a confrontational post, but if I know a scripture that helps validate someone, I am likely to post it.

as goddess is my witness, that is all i ask.

non sequiturs can be fun, but not when i am trying to get my read on in quick like fashion

yes, i am VERY familiar with FZ's song...would you like to know why I chose this moniker...i recently was asked to write about it on another forum i am in for jamband freaks

"maybe one day God will push your button....that will be an educational day"