Mark 7:11-12 ? AND WHO IS REALLY THE PHARASEE IN THESE LATER DAYS? LOOK AGAIN!

Again...Another good subject!

what si going on? I see you gone all purple! thank you

Picking up on a lot of other's emotions...It saddens me sometimes...

you cannot carry peoples emotions but it is right to laugh with those who laugh and cry with those who cry and mourn with those who mourn. Celebrate with those who celebrate!

For life is but a breath of air and who knows at what hour the angels come. So live and enjoy the blessings of this time remembering always your heavenly father.

Thank you for all you are doing

Thank You!! Thank You!! Thank You for this post!! Indeed man has taken his eyes off God to follow men who have a form of godliness, but DENY THE POWER THEREOF!!
Men will stumble, Men will fall and let you down. But if you keep your eyes set on God and his Son Jesus youwill never never be let down.

you are absolutely correct! stay the course and look not to the left or the right...

So are you suggesting that you oppose the 'feel' good and 'legalism' doctrine of today's churches?

Great post Neim, as usual



Last Edited by Troy. on 02/13/2013 10:37 PM

Could it be, that false Christianity is produced by the Bible.

Where did the seed sown by the enemy get their religious ideas from? They got them from the bible, and from the mind of religious men, who got their ideas also from the bible. Just like the pharisees.

Everything is about contrast.

Now concerning "The Word" vs "The scriptures"...

I'll give my reasons, why they are not the same. Below are a list of scriptures proving my point of view.

The word and the bible are NOT the same. Today we use the terms "The Word" and "The Bible" as if they are the same thing.

The scriptures are true, but God, must make them real and alive to you, giving revelation of truth.

Although the bible is true, it has no life apart from God... We see this all throughout the OT and NT...

The Word; In the OT, it was "the word of the Lord came unto Jeremiah". In the NT, it was "Peter rise and eat".

Today the so-called church has defined Christianity by "The Book". Why. Because they can control that, via their so-called doctrines, preaching, and one man shows.

They have refused for the longest time to let "THE BODY" of Christ minister to one another as the Spirit leads.

We should all say these words, "Speak Lord, here am I"...So that He may speak by His Spirit, but we don't. We confine God to "The Way" we do church, making him a slave to our agendas to our church services, our system.

History and the scriptures themselves prove this to be true.

During the dark ages, there was no printing press, and people couldn't read or write. Yet we know there were people who KNEW Christ, there was Madam Guyon, and Jean Nicholas Grou, just to name two.

Then of course the disciples couldn't read, but they had the living word, in flesh which was Christ. They lived by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God, as should we...

Jesus speaks of hearing much more than reading. He also condemns the Pharisees for looking to the scriptures, BUT not being willing to come to Him, the word of life.

We must come find a common denominator. In other words what gives us life. What allows for people to receive Christ, to experience Christ. It’s NOT The Bible:

The bible cannot be the one common denominator that leads us into all truth. Because many generations passed with people NOT having access to the scriptures, and many through out time could not read, so the inspiration has to be something else, something everyone could have access to in each age, and generation.

Jesus says my sheep hear my voice, man shall not live by bread alone.

So One is heard, one is read. Many can read, few can hear. One is always spoken, and one is written.

Thus we have interchanged the two, elevating "The bible" above God, above the leading of the Spirit, and above "The Spoken Word"…

The scriptures, are inspired, but God never meant for us to live by them, but instead by the Spirit of promise, leading us into all truth

We would have two types of church, both are part of God's plan and draw a contrast with one another for all to see, in the unveiling. One church is led by the Spirit, hearing his voice, and then we have the other church, those reading and leaning only on "The book".

God is separating HIS people "The Ecclesia from this thing called church, which is churchianity.

He is building his kingdom, it is on the inside. That is what Jesus says.

So change is coming, we will see it soon, and when it happens, it will rip this so-called Christianity from the hands of these corrupt churches and there doctrines will become invalid.

Overnight their religious live will become irrelevant, Just like the pharisees became irrelevant when Jesus showed up. This will happen as we see the body of Christ manifest in our midst.

Light and darkness can not fellowship together, and God does not fellowship with darkness. It is not possible all of those people in all these churches are truly born again via an encounter with Christ.

But that encounter must take place...IF YOU want to know God.

You cannot fellowship with them, for where the Spirit of The Lord is, (in His people) that is the only place you can worship or fellowship.

You might as well go to a Safeway store and try and do church with all the people there.

I love the scriptures, I read them. I think they are from God, and are truth, this truth, is revealed by the author, and the author is to be known.

The truth is within the text, explained by the same one who wrote it. If we interpret it, we end up with a private interpretation.

The author is greater than the book, yet that doesn't diminish the book, or the truth that it contains.

Today many know the bible, but have never had God become real to them through the scriptures. Most people have never had God make himself known to them even through a beautiful sunset.

To most God is just history, or he is way off in space somewhere. Maybe God opens the scriptures to you, and makes them come alive, and they became a "word" of God to you.

Lets make this more personal for clarity's sake.

The importance is not in experiences, but instead experiencing God. I contend, that you have to experienced God.

It would be like you and I having coffee everyday together, sharing life and all things included. We would age together and become deep friends. We may never have a spiritual experience, but we would definitely experience each other.

Moses experienced God at the tent, when Miriam and Aron spoke against Moses, and God spoke about Moses, stating they were friends.

Moses experienced God. God was experienced by everyone we read about, in the OT and the NT.

I fear that the so-called church, the large visible body that meets on the corner of every city in America is missing God.

There are many within this so-called visible church (though fewer in number) that truly belong to Jesus, these are the invisible church.

From my point of view, the visible church has sprung up not from experiencing God, but from its exposure to the bible "The Scriptures", doctrines, theology, thoughts and ideas from the mind of men. This is not true of the invisible church "The Ecklesia".

For example most people throughout history couldn't read, we had no printing presses, and when printed most people couldn't afford the bible, this is seen during the dark ages, yet the ecklesia thrived. How?

It wasn't because they had a bible; it was because God was real and made himself known to them.

Brother Lawrence / Laubach; in his book practicing the presence; makes the claim that God became real to him, by seeing a tree losing it leaves, knowing life would again come to the tree the following year.

Could it be, that false Christianity is produced by the Bible. Where did the seed sown by the enemy get their religious ideas from? They got them from the mind of religious men, who got their ideas from the bible. Just like the pharisees.

Everything is about contrast (light, dark, evil, and good), or it's to express God's glory, and his many attributes...God even created evil for this purposes.

The contrast in Christianity is the true church, and the false church.

The invisible ecklesia -vs- the large visible body of people in every church, on every corner.

The wheat, and the chaff or tare. The good seed and the bad seed. The Pharisee, and Jesus, sheep and Goats, Light and darkness.

Today is a replay of the life of Jesus in his body singular (the one that died on the cross); Now this body "His Body" is plural, many membered...The same prosecutions, torments, dying, will happen in us as it did in him.

Now the Pharisees are the religious of today. True Christianity and false Christianity, is so close, to the real church, the real walk, the real life...So close that it could even fool the elect, if that were possible....

So how does God establish the tare, this large so-called church. Do we see it throughout time. Yes, and it all started with two trees. The tree of life, and the tree of knowledge.

We see the essence of these two trees, in many forms. One is in the visible church, and the invisible church, the wheat and tare.

The large visible church exists and is sustained by the visible, tangible, written word (The Bible). They find themselves at home with the text, they can control it, they create laws, rules, religious rituals, and doctrines.

They also remove God's Spirit, out of their midst, issues of control, a form of religion, and rules, that deny the power thereof. There is no body ministry, led of God's Spirit.

You may think this would all be obvious, and plainly visible, or only to those of us who discernment It. It had to be hidden, even from those who were in the midst of it, or else they would not have participated.

Both sides, real and false are hidden, even from themselves. If not hidden, you couldn't get anyone to participate in this plan of God.

I'm not against these people; most are genuine, nice, sweet people. But we are discussing truth here.

Now God is revealing these things to us, and getting ready to reveal us to each other, to reveal the true church to herself, to reveal the false church to the true.

While most of the members of both groups are wonderful people and well intentioned, the visible false church, is still like the Pharisees of old. They search the scriptures daily, but won't come to Christ, that they might have life.

In fact they were never destined to life, this is what the scriptures say, the body / the ecklesia / the invisible church has life, they were destined to life, from the beginning.

The true body, the ecklesia exist by "the word", they know a hidden walk, they know the masters voice. This has got to be the common denominator throughout time, since many could not read, and the few that could read, didn't have a copy of the bible. Yet the Ecklesia flourished, even in the dark ages, and in countries that never allowed sacred texts, like China, and Russia...

Today both flourish, and this thing called church, or churchianity, has said to all, we represent God. But they do not.

God's mercy, and the world demand such an event, to rid God, of the stain of falsehood. Whether that be TV preachers, and all the pain caused to so many in the name of God by so-called Christianity, which was NOT Christianity, but instead, it was this false church the large, visible church, this system.

God is separating HIS people "The Ecclesia from this thing called church, "churchianity". He is building his kingdom, it is on the inside. That is what Jesus says.

There is no way for light and darkness to fellowship together and there is NO way all those people in all these churches are truly born again via an encounter with Christ. That encounter must take place...We must experience God.

So there is no way they can fellowship with you, or you with them, if you are part of that invisible "REAL" church, for what fellowship does light have with darkness. You might as well go to a Safeway store and try and "do church" with all the people there, it will not work.

Remember Jesus says "my sheep hear my voice", and man shall not live by bread alone. "The word of the Lord" via "The scriptures" can become a fresh word to you, but, we can not use the terms "The word" and "the bible" interchangeably.

The point I'm making is, there is a lot written in the bible about hearing, hardly anything about reading. Everything written in the bible was spoken before it was written. Genesis was spoken, and then written by Moses.

We must come to a common denominator, for people to receive Christ, to hear the message, or to experience Christianity, and it cannot be the bible.

Still I love the scriptures, and they are true, they are God inspired. They have just been elevated to a position by this false church, where they have taken the place of God.

As far as people hearing "The word" vs studying "The scriptures" I see a big difference between the two. One is heard, one is read. Many can read, few can hear. One is always spoken, and one is written, but can be made alive to you, and become a spoken word. God also speaks apart from the scriptures, remember God spoke to Adam and Moses before there was a written bible.

Thus we have interchanged the two, elevating "The bible" above God, and the leading of the Spirit, and we have placed the bible above "The Word"...

I believe the scriptures, are inspired, but God never meant for us to live by them, nor the Jewish people the Torah. But instead by the Spirit / the word / His breath...His words of promise, leading us into all truth?

We have two types of church. Those led by the Spirit, and those seeing and leaning only on "The book".

We must not elevate the bible above God, and I'm afraid that is what many churches (people) have done.

The "Word" and "The bible" are not one and the same...The common denominator throughout time Has been God reaching out to man, possibly by a sunset, or a person who was "LED" of the spirit to witnesses to you, or God speaks to you, but God has not, at all times used the bible. Of course there are times that the Spirit moves someone, through the use of Scripture, but that is not my point.

What do we say of the first 3000 years of man, until Moses wrote the Torah, where was God. He was doing what he has always done, personally interacting with man.

The faith we have is more than intellectual knowledge, it IS LIFE...Two trees were in the garden; today we face that same thing. "Knowledge" OR "Life"...

Your Friend...

What some others have said:
He said to me "Because there is a deception in the church that is very subtle, but is robbing the church of its power." I cried out "Lord, what can this deception be"

He replied "They have called the Bible the word of God, but that name has been given to the One who is from the beginning."

SEARCHING THE SCRIPTURES

As I started reading through Scripture it was obvious that Jesus was and is The Word of God. The word “THE” is singular, meaning there is only one.


LOGOS OR RHEMA

At Bible College I was taught that the logo was the written word and rhema the quickened word.

In John chapter 1 where the Bible so plainly describes Jesus as being The Word of God the Greek word for 'word' is logos.

There is not an instance in all Scripture where the Bible is called The Word (or word) of God.


JESUS - THE WORD OF GOD

There are many instances in the Bible where The Word of God or The Word of The Lord is mentioned.

A couple that spring to mind immediately are:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

And the Word became flesh (Jesus), and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.

Rev 19:13 And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight, but all things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

The Word of God is the name, identity, title and honor given to Jesus alone. This is who He is. To call anything else The Word (or word) of God takes this away from Him.

If the Bible is the word of God, then God is four, not three. Father, Son (who is the Word Jn 1:14), the Holy Spirit and the word (Bible).

Scripture tells us 1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.


THE BIBLE - THE WORDS OF GOD

There is no justification for calling the Bible the word of God.

People have said to me that: All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness and is therefore the word of God.

The Bible says differently:

Joh 3:34 For He whom God has sent speaks the Words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.

Rev 17:17 For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act with one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast until the Words of God will be fulfilled.

Below is a Scripture that is a bit different. Rhema is used for "My Words" which indicates fresh revelation such as you would expect from a living relationship with Jesus. If you hear what He is saying to you and are led and motivated by Him He will do what you ask of Him.

Joh 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My Words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.


THE DIFFERENCE

According to Scripture, the Bible contains the words (plural) of God. This does not in any way detract from the title of The Word of God that belongs to Jesus.

The trouble is that because we are so used to calling the Bible The word of God we automatically think of the Bible when the word of God is mentioned. This is scripturally incorrect. It is second nature for so many of us to think of the Bible as the word of God we often give it the place that Jesus should have. The result is that we become Bible dependent rather than Jesus dependent.

We live in accordance with the Scriptures, which is good, but it leads us to depend on the Scriptures rather than the experiential life we should have with Jesus.

Consider the following Scriptures:

Psa 119:105 Your Word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path.
Psalm 119:105 is interpreted by many as the Bible being the lamp.

In fact, Jesus is the One who knows the beginning and the end. He is the Lamp unto my feet.

There are numerous instances right throughout the Bible where the Word of God came to various people giving instruction etc. I can assure you it wasn't the Bible that did that!

Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I have heard many a sermon using this Scripture to justify calling the Bible the "Living Word". The Bible is however, unable to discern and I can assure you that it IS a book, inspired by God, made by man. Surely it is not hard to see this verse is talking about Jesus.

CONCLUSION

I have heard many good sermons, even excellent sermons, where the speaker has spoken of The Word of God, referring to the Bible. In every instance that I can recall, Jesus would have been glorified.



Scriptural Evidence the WORD OF GOD is not the Bible. by Jenny Duskey 1975

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

God created the heaven and the earth by speaking, and what he spoke, as his Spirit moved upon the face of the waters, was his Word.

John wrote later:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made."

All things were made by the Word. They were not made by the scriptures, which were not there in the beginning but were themselves written later by people.

Moses spoke of the Word of God when he said to the people of Israel:

"For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it.

Moses was not speaking of the scriptures, for even the Old Testament had not yet been compiled; he did not mean only the words he himself had just spoken, for he knew that he was soon to die. He did not even mean the tablets of the commandments kept in the ark, because stone tablets could not be in the hearts and mouths of the people.

Moses meant the eternal Word of God, through which all things were created, which had come to him on Mt. Sinai, and which he now said was in the hearts of all the people of Israel as he urged them to hear it and do it.

The Word of God, what God speaks, has come to people in various ways (Heb. 1:1). The Word which was with God in the beginning and by which all things were created, of which Moses spoke, is the same Word which God spoke to Abraham, telling him to leave his home, to the other patriarchs, and to all the prophets, who prophesied only by the Word.

John continues:

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." This same Word, which was with God from the beginning, which was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.

When he spoke his teaching was the Word of God in him, the good news of the Kingdom which God had sent him to proclaim and which he embodied.

When "the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God" it was to hear this message he preached, not just the scriptures, which they could hear read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The seed which he was sowing and which his disciples are to sow and which will grow in the hearts of those who keep it is the Word of God.

Jesus does not use the phrase "word of God" to refer to the scriptures.

Usually, he says, "as it is written,” Sometimes he says as it was "spoken of by the prophet". Sometimes he simply uses the word "scriptures"

When Jesus uses the phrase "word of God" to refer to something in the scriptures, it is clear from the context that he means the word God spoke to someone, not the entire collection of scriptures.

For example, when he accuses the Pharisees of "making the word of God of none effect" the word of God means the specific commandment God spoke to Moses: "Honor thy father and thy mother," which Jesus has just quoted. He does not mean that the entire body of the scriptures was spoken by God;

Jesus warned that the scriptures are not sufficient to assure the presence of God's Word:

It is said over and over in the New Testament that the Word of God lives in God's people . . . and the word of God abideth in you.

The Word of God which lives in Christ's followers is none other than Christ and his Spirit.

The word is said to have powers which clearly belong to Christ and his Spirit.

Paul says to the elders of the church at Ephesus, "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. He goes on to say that the word of God is "the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints".

Later in the same letter Paul says "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom" (Col. 3:16).

The letter to the Hebrews says: "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

James writes of "the en-grafted word, which is able to save your souls”.

Peter, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"

Last Edited by ROM74 on 02/13/2013 10:47 PM

Your threads really need to be pinned.

very precise

They will never pin this stuff.But the good news is there are only certain eyes the father wants these things to be read by.So no biggie I understand what he is doing.


How are you?

Thanks! Fantastic

You are welcome anytime!

hey brother how are you.hope all is well

"Woe unto them who teach the laws of men in my name." -Jesus

I wonder why only certain eyes are to see...And others not?

It is written that in the end time many will hear and not take heed and see and not discern because of the hardness of their hearts. The truth will be hid from those for he will send them strong delusion that they will continue to believe the lies.

The ones who will see are his own jewels and he will awaken them from slumber

That makes sense!...Thank you!!

I need to ask you a question, OP.

How did they make the commandment to 'not seethe a kid in it's mother's milk' to man cannot eat meat and dairy together?

I thought the commandment meant not to eat a kid that is not weaned.

Who is right?

This was a custom taken up by israel from the ancient heathens, when they had gathered in all their fruits, to take a kid and boil it in the milk of its mother; and then, in a magical way, to go about and sprinkle with it all their trees and fields, gardens and orchards; thinking by these means to make them fruitful, that they might bring forth more abundantly in the following year.

So the commandment meant exactly what it said. Why then did it change to no meat and dairy to be eaten together? And who changed it?

Sorry, this bothered me and I knew you would know the answer.

is this the translation i your bible