Culture is dead

Then how do you explain the shear beauty of classical music, if there is no culture?

Anything specific? I don't really consider myself a libertarian, but the idea of lessening state control and the resultant social-engineering can only be a good one, no?

BTW, are you a present or former academic? Your commentary seems a cut above the typical fare.

There is really no such thing as culture.

Just a bunch of people living together in the same world

some are rich ;some are poor

When money collapses

you will see what you call 'culture' collapse very rapidly ...

The only reason most of us still can walk around without being mugged or killed for our money, jewelry is

because we have plentiful food available in stores and restaurants and many people still have jobs to buy that plentiful food.

But if you take away money ; which gets rid of jobs and no more food stocked on shelves...

going outside becomes more and more dangerous

......derivative is what im speaking of divorced from authentic experience ......learning from the past is important but it is just as important to embrace the mystery and terror of the unknown to explore what is undiscovered....

Thanks! I'm a PhD student in philosophy at a high-ranked university. Focus on political philosophy with a deep interest in ancient philosophy.

Libertarian philosophy, or at least its 'classics,' (Mises, Hayek, Rand, Rothbard) is great, and I consider myself a libertarian.

But the movement suffers from the same cultural bankruptcy that infects society at large. Here's a brief list of some of the problems I've observed:

- Libertarians don't take these ideas seriously, they typically view them as an intellectual curiosity with which they agree. The best statement of this I've heard is from a serious libertarian I know: "They don't have the courage of their convictions." Here's the question: which of them would stand at the ramparts during the American Revolution, fighting for liberty? Few of them. In this regard I have far greater respect for many conservatives in this country.

- Further, the movement is still largely an economic one, rather than a cultural one. It is dominated by economists, economic theory, and economic methodology. They appeal to calculation and policy, not to ideals. Any political or cultural movement is rooted in ideals, which manifest themselves in art, literature, politics, ethics, etc. In this respect, libertarianism doesn't even exist: libertarians who hold such an idealistic perspective are living on the remnants of the natural rights tradition. It follows that as a cultural phenomenon, it's the conservatives on the street who keep alive the ideal of liberty in America, not the libertarians.

- Now there are exceptions, libertarians who are serious, culturally oriented, and courageous. But they're rare, and not prominent in the libertarian organizations.

Well I agree with that. Sorry if my response wasn't proportionate to your intention. There's a danger that genuine admiration for the past can become worship and fabrication. That's also dangerous.

The jewelry was nice.
[link to upload.wikimedia.org]

I knew it! Lol.. Good for you!

Remember: Marxism started as an economic theory too - only later did it become translated into a social theory.

i figured all this out four years ago when i was 19 and no kne listened to me.

i am still here and people are recieveing much info, suffering guides us towards heaven.

i am a sinner. but i work to spread love and hold to the virtue which God protects me with.

it is my year of the snake;; i will communicate in ways you never dreamed possible.

grab some moldevite.

i am the new leader;; whether you help me or not.

Thanks to "Political Correctness"....& removing God from our schools. Beginning of the end.

THEIR diabolical agenda, has worked out just as THEY planned it would years ago.

No its not dead technically speaking. It is a living, rotting mass we call 'pop'. Caricaturized by chronic degeneration of ever elusive standards of measure. At least we might take some assurance in the fact that this is not an accident, and that somewhere, someone knows what they are doing. We are the objective victims of cultural assination by those who would control us.
The real problem seems to be the mass recipients of culture and thier tendacy to gravitate to the lowest common denominator. When the people demand a higher standard in the arts of all things that comprise culture, it will be forth coming. Right now I think they are busy reacting, unconsciosly, to their last vacination. Uh-duh.

....correct........the truest metaphor to our culture is soda........stimulating , sensory pleasing , .....while at the same time causing weakness , disease and internal rot.

Libertarianism offers us a way out of the cultural death-spiral. It unifies the political camps around an incontestable idea -- freedom. Who can argue against it?

Once free, humanity can get busy deciding for itself, what is good, right, noble etc...

Thanks for that. It's a pity he's dead.

It's a pity all those great teachers (Alan Watts, Albert Hofmann, ...) are dead. Or is there any great teacher left? Can't think of one.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$libertarianism concerns itself too much with$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Libertarianism promotes freedom, but freedom to do what? Freedom is a condition, not an end. People needs ends, not mere conditions. This is why I don't think libertarianism is complete, and one of the main reasons I don't think it's been successful. Socialism promotes equality and material comfort as its ends, with a dose of brotherhood, authenticity, and respect. So long as libertarians focus on freedom, they'll never beat the socialists.

Social movements develop around ends, not means.



It does, but I don't know if I mean the same thing by that as you do. Libertarians focus on freedom to make money, primarily because they're typically economists. There's very little libertarian talk about other ideals.

here here

"It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field."

"The soldiers twisted some thorns into a victor's crown..."

"So to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh..."

You can say what you want, but it seems to me you only ever see what they want you to see.

True. My concern is that while Marxism evolved into a comprehensive theory, libertarianism has degenerated into a merely economic theory. Marx drew on richer philosophical resources: Rousseau, Hegel, etc. Libertarians no longer draw on such resources, but stubbornly stick to their ivory tower economic perspective. They don't try to engage with the common man, with aesthetics, with culture. They live in self-imposed isolation from culture, surrounded by businessmen and financial contributors.

It just means there's work to be done...

With the rise of the libertarian movement, hopefully a richer, more complete theory will emerge. I just believe that only good things can follow from increased freedom.
Conservatives used to believe that too.

it's the greediness of the corporations and government that's bringing out the downfall of everyone...materialism... gotta have this product etc

Creativity and excellence are no longer rewarded but punished as aberrant behaviors that places one outside of one's peer group. We must all be the same in this day and age. How can kids be creative when we don't teach them fine motor skills involved in making art or music? Tapping keys on a computer or buttons on a gaming controller are no substitute for learning to draw or play and instrument.
I rather like the comparison of Today as Rome versus the created culture made by the Greeks. All we have are pale copies of what was once a great culture. Compare today's music with what was made in the 70's. Nobody can touch the genius of bands like Queen, Yes, Return to forever, Zappa, aSteve Hillage, Pink Floyd, etc. I feel very fortunate to have been teen during the time of the greatest music ever made. It's not coming back and it's all downhill from here kids!

By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest. Confucius

Good quote. Confucius was a good teacher. Yet even his great wisdom became the degenerate cultural phenomenon that was cultural or orthodox Confucianism.

THIS

I just watched this. A very good video. I agree with him completely, including his method of moving forward. The classical philosophers recognized the value and necessity of art, and in particular recognized its role in shaping an individual's values and the direction of a culture.

His point seems to be true of socialism and libertarianism. Socialism had a very distinctive art style: red colors, solidarity, raised fists, workers, etc. Libertarianism spread primarily through the art of Ayn Rand, as much as libertarian intellectuals want to reject that. And come to think of it, Nazism was primarily an aesthetic movement.

So I like that idea. Start with art: paintings, music, sculpture, video games, movies - whatever art form can get the values of freedom, virtue, and beauty out there.

The philosophy of freedom has already been created. The intellectual task is primarily to preserve it and restate it for each new generation, and apply it to the new problems we face. But the system is there. We need art.