Calculating the Position and Orientation of the Moon Part 2: Astrometric Validation

These are all pretty small objects, it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack. None of them are nearly as big as the Russian one. It would take a systematic search by a very powerful telescope like the GLP main scope. I am working on searching for another object which has been lost for several decades and has a very slim chance of hitting earth and making even Apophis look like a walk in the park. Due to its size it's within the grasp of a scope like mine.

Last Edited by Astromut on 02/20/2013 06:20 AM

sounds interesting the lost object,hope you rediscover it,i wont ask what it is even though im curious,or else everyone will be looking too lol.

Well my goal is to directly search for where it would be if it were going to hit us. We have no idea where it is, only what its orbit looks like, which is why there's a slim chance of impact a few decades from now when our planet intersects its orbit. Bottom line, hopefully I don't rediscover it or else it means it could hit us. Hopefully nothing's there where it would have to be in order to hit us. Still working on it though.

Wrong. Anyone can find the distance and from there the size using basic geometry. Also possible is a HAM radio enthusiast can bounce a radio signal off the Moon and measure the time for the return. One doesn't have to rely on others to get the distance for the Moon.

So that means you know the orbit approx, but not where exactly the object is in the orbit, i guess i may not want to rediscover it either if finding it was bad.Still very interesting though.

Right, well if I were doing a general search for it then rediscovery would be desirable. Given that we don't know where in the orbit it is, that could take years to do since it could still only be detected when it gets within a certain distance of earth. Rather than do that I'm tackling the most interesting part of the uncertainty directly; the possibility that it could hit earth. That restricts the search area very tightly and that is what I'm currently working on.

Thanks for the pin!

Nope. It's real, it works, and it's proven.

Dr Astro, I thaught the moon drifted outward every year by about 100meters. Im sure i read that somewhere on a site like nasa. so from 4000 BC to now would that not mean its drifted out 600 kilometers and 130 Meters?; counting year 0.

Yes the moon is getting slightly farther away every year due to tidal acceleration, but not nearly at that magnitude. The rate is something like about 3.8 cm/year. That is accounted for in the formulae that make up my spreadsheet.

The moon is drifting away from Earth at 38mm per year. By my calculations, it would take more than 15 million years to drift 600km. Also, total eclipses would never look the same.

good one mutt of astroness, however, I still have a question...

I am currently seeing the craters of the moony in a completely different location than on other days.

This means that the side which faces us, has turned or rotated 270degrees.

To help you understand what I am saying, take a glass and place it on a table, and mark the 12 o'clock position with a line....

Now turn it 270 degrees, and the line should appear around the 9 o'clock position.

Why is this happening? On different months, it appears in different rotations, and nobody has yet explained this.

It is not just isolated to the moony either, other planets are undergoing this mysterious rotation.....

Eg. Here is a normal image that was taken of Saturn...

[link to upload.wikimedia.org]

Now, here is saturn as it currently looks, which occured incidentally, around the month of December 2012.

[link to nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov]

Can you explain why this has happened for the full ten points?

Thanx

No, it's field rotation. My spreadsheet shows this effect; the moon can rise with the illuminated side tilted 90 degrees to the horizon with the illuminated side facing away from the horizon, get close to the meridian and go to 0 degrees rotation, and then set while tilted 90 degrees to the horizon with the illuminated portion facing down towards the horizon. Now does this mean the sun literally went 180 degrees around the moon from rising to setting? Of course not. The craters are still illuminated from the same direction by the sun for a given phase angle, regardless of the moon's apparent orientation in the sky from your location.

Check out my excel sheet. The apparent orientation is dependent on the exact date and time and location of observation.

Field rotation applies to everything, including planets. Here's an example from a timelapse I did of Jupiter:

By the way, here's what Saturn looked like in December 2012 from a polar aligned perspective (free from field rotation):

Your example images of Saturn appear to be from Cassini (possibly Hubble?), which could be oriented in any arbitrary direction for the picture.

Last Edited by Astromut on 02/20/2013 08:36 PM

Nice work, Astro.

OK thnx but the anglular movement is also happening on my starmap

Is there somewhere online we can view live telescopic footage of the moon?

There's a HUGE halo around the moon tonight and they're really getting some spraying done. It's creeping me out..

Im in the SE US, btw.

It's moisture. Usually means a storm is incoming.

Of course, why wouldn't it? This spreadsheet is doing the same basic calculations that run behind the scenes of every major star map program out there.

[link to www.nightskiesnetwork.com] (I'm NGCHunter on there)

Last Edited by Astromut on 02/20/2013 10:10 PM

Finally, Jim McCanney (an astronomy buff) has come out to declare that the Wormwood system with its seven planets is truly in a traffic merge with our system.

So, with seven EXTRA SPHERES OUT THERE, who knows which is which? OR where's what? OR what we're orbitting now?

I sure can't tell by looking at the SKY, and you guys certainly can't tell by looking at your computer SIMS, which are by now WAAAAAY out of date.

:shrug:

Jim McCanney is an idiot who can't distinguish between hot pixels and actual objects in an image.

Wormwood with seven planets (he latched onto claims this timelapse showed the planet being followed by companions: [link to www.youtube.com] )? My ass, it's just a comet:


Oh, and he lied when he claimed NASA changed Pete's timelapse to remove the "planets." You can still it in their version:
[link to www.youtube.com]

Last Edited by Astromut on 02/20/2013 10:50 PM

Astro what is your personal opinion on venus slowing rotation?

Also in regards to ISON do you belive that it 'may' have built up electric energy; to the point that it may discharge with earths moon?

thanks for that info lol.My friend keeps sending me all McCanneys stuff.I cant make sense of it.I dont like people that state sources but wont say what/ot who they are.

I knew the 'planet' they were referring to was the comet Ison, but i couldnt for the life of me figure where these "other things(satellites-was the term i heard)or planets or'solar system" were-hot pixels? lmao wow.
i think because someone has a title "astrophysicist" everyone thinks that person knows everything and is legit.
I like thinking for myself, you just gave me the parts i couldnt make sense of in a sensible way.

Glad I could help!

The fact that ancient stone rings still point to astronomical locations after thousands of years would lead credence to your hypothesis.

Allow me to quote myself on my personal opinion of the Venus slowed rotation story:


I think the Magellan determined number was simply wrong, which is why the determinations that were made prior to Magellan and those made in combination with Magellan agree with the recently determined value. That is just my opinion, other possibilities do exist, but I do not think it is a coincidence that the pre-Magellan determinations matched the current value.

No.