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| 01:41 PM | ||
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| 01:41 PM | ||
NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017 | |
KipKat  User ID: 25952351  Netherlands07/31/2014 03:58 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 61004791  Puerto Rico07/31/2014 04:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Setheory (OP) User ID: 61005690  United States07/31/2014 04:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 339313  United Kingdom07/31/2014 04:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma." Quoting: Setheory My thoughts exactly.  |
Dr. Astro Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 4211721 United States07/31/2014 04:03 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | NASA: 1st prototype to be expected around 2039 but we require $3 trillion in funding to build it.......... Quoting: KipKat  Someone send this to Elon Musk, ask him to put one on a cubesat with the next Falcon launch. [link to cannae.com]  |
| Setheory (OP) User ID: 61005690 United States07/31/2014 04:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Badass stuff, OP. Quoting: Em18966 I love how humanity's definition of what is possible is changing so quickly - and that I have been lucky enough to witness so many innovations and advancements in my lifetime. (I mean, can you even begin to imagine being born in like 1910 and living to 2010? The changes in "possible" that you would have seen take place over your lifetime? It was a crazy century, and this one could be even more incredible...) I love this. And the idea that what we believe to be physical 'laws' may only be laws until they're broken by the next technological advancement is pretty cool, too. Thanks... Interesting that you just said that, as your post totally reminds me of an Arthur C. Clarke short story I just finished yesterday called “Rescue Party”. I think you might enjoy it. The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...' |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33213612 United States07/31/2014 04:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Strange. I was just thinking about something like this yesterday. Occasionally my brain pops up random topics and proceeds to analyze them at great length like a "backround app" and spits up relevant observations. Yesterday was rockets.. and I was focused on the propellant aspect and the relation to "equal and opposite direction", combined with the "pushing off" effect of the propellant in atmoshpere and outside it, and whether the action was possible as a direct translation of momentum without the presence of the exhaust.. I guess i fell asleep before i got to microwaves... |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49531429 United States07/31/2014 04:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The sad thing is that humanity most likely already possesses technology that exceeds this level of innovation - but it's been compartmentalized & classified in the name of 'national security'... They only tell you about what they've decided you're allowed to know.... |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33213612 United States07/31/2014 04:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Setheory (OP) User ID: 61005690 United States07/31/2014 04:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It sounds pretty low thrust, maybe enough to position satellites but not enough thrust to move light years in seconds, so no warp drive. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60906342 They can do the same thing with solar radiation and solar sails. . I say this with the caveat and qualifier that this is all still very much theoretical and very possibly spurious, but if true the claim is that second generation thrusters would be capable of much higher thrust levels, on the order of 0.5m/s^2. No, we're not talking a star trek warp drive, but it would revolutionize how we move about in space nevertheless. [link to www.emdrive.com] As you know, I’m pretty skeptical about things. However, my gut agrees with the available data in this instance. I’m betting this turns out to be legit. The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...' |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 8547422 United States07/31/2014 04:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel? Quoting: Setheory [link to www.wired.co.uk] "Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma." Will wonders never cease. The Chinese INVENTED something....rather than STEAL IT like they always do. Whoda' thought.  Uh,the Chinese didn't invent it... they just built something another guy invented. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 17943469 United States07/31/2014 04:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel? Quoting: Setheory [link to www.wired.co.uk] "Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma." Dude, sweet find! If this is true, this completely changes everything in spaceflight. A propellant-less thruster, this would nearly render the tsiolkovsky rocket equation pointless for all future spaceflight (except perhaps for getting into orbit initially). 720 mN is amazing if true, the ion engine on the Dawn spacecraft only produces 90 mN, and even an ion engine must expend fuel (albeit with very high isp). Not as high thrust as Vasimr, but still much better than ion. Buzz Aldrin's idea of not coming back from a trip to Mars to make it more feasible? Fuck that, you suddenly don't need to expend fuel to break Martian orbit and return to earth. This changes the entire paradigm of spaceflight, if it really does pan out. You could load a bunch of these up on your manned spacecraft and use as much payload fraction for life support and supplies as you please without having to worry about what it will do to your delta-V budget - you don't have a delta-V budget, you have unlimited delta-V as long as you have power. The one concern I have is that in the NASA test they report much lower thrust, 50mN, similar to ion engines (perhaps due to test article differences/power levels?) and even their "null" test article produced thrust. That sends a red flag up in my mind that it could be a spurious detection of thrust that isn't really there due to some sort of interference with the test equipment, but I don't know how. I just don't want to get my hopes up over nothing, but I'm going to be seeing a former astronaut this weekend and I will definitely ask him if he knows anything about this. [link to ntrs.nasa.gov] If it weren't for Kerbal Space Program, a video game, I'd probably not have as firm a grasp on this as I do. Thank you video games. Maybe some day, when we are tired of killing each other, we could use tech such as this to travel the stars. Maybe. Someday. |
| Digital mix guy User ID: 23225561 United States07/31/2014 04:19 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel? Quoting: Setheory [link to www.wired.co.uk] "Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma." whoa!! nice!!   Have no fear, Spock is here!!! LLAP |
| ~Awakened One~ User ID: 658762 United States07/31/2014 04:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel? Quoting: Setheory [link to www.wired.co.uk] "Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma." Dude, sweet find! If this is true, this completely changes everything in spaceflight. A propellant-less thruster, this would nearly render the tsiolkovsky rocket equation pointless for all future spaceflight (except perhaps for getting into orbit initially). 720 mN is amazing if true, the ion engine on the Dawn spacecraft only produces 90 mN, and even an ion engine must expend fuel (albeit with very high isp). Not as high thrust as Vasimr, but still much better than ion. Buzz Aldrin's idea of not coming back from a trip to Mars to make it more feasible? Fuck that, you suddenly don't need to expend fuel to break Martian orbit and return to earth. This changes the entire paradigm of spaceflight, if it really does pan out. You could load a bunch of these up on your manned spacecraft and use as much payload fraction for life support and supplies as you please without having to worry about what it will do to your delta-V budget - you don't have a delta-V budget, you have unlimited delta-V as long as you have power. The one concern I have is that in the NASA test they report much lower thrust, 50mN, similar to ion engines (perhaps due to test article differences/power levels?) and even their "null" test article produced thrust. That sends a red flag up in my mind that it could be a spurious detection of thrust that isn't really there due to some sort of interference with the test equipment, but I don't know how. I just don't want to get my hopes up over nothing, but I'm going to be seeing a former astronaut this weekend and I will definitely ask him if he knows anything about this. [link to ntrs.nasa.gov] Dr. Astro, how fast would a engine like that go? are we talking light speed or close to it? illumination "peanut butter jelly time!! peanut butter jelly time!! peanut butter jelly time!!" |
| Dr. Astro Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 4211721 United States07/31/2014 04:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It sounds pretty low thrust, maybe enough to position satellites but not enough thrust to move light years in seconds, so no warp drive. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60906342 They can do the same thing with solar radiation and solar sails. . I say this with the caveat and qualifier that this is all still very much theoretical and very possibly spurious, but if true the claim is that second generation thrusters would be capable of much higher thrust levels, on the order of 0.5m/s^2. No, we're not talking a star trek warp drive, but it would revolutionize how we move about in space nevertheless. [link to www.emdrive.com] As you know, I’m pretty skeptical about things. However, my gut agrees with the available data in this instance. I’m betting this turns out to be legit. I have to admit I'm stoked, I think it's at least worthy of a test flight on a cubesat. Preliminary designs for it already exist. Cubesats are dirt cheap (relatively speaking), so I'm sure someone somewhere will do it. With launch costs factored in you're still "only" looking at about $150,000. [link to www.diyspaceexploration.com] [link to www.parabolicarc.com] |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 56576303 United States07/31/2014 04:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 59019999 United States07/31/2014 04:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 42099871 United States07/31/2014 04:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If the Electric Universe theory is right then magnetic fields will produce thrust. It maybe possible with opposite charged plates like an inside out capacitor, or with a magnectic monopole, or maybe like a modified shaded pole electric motor |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 60978005  Spain07/31/2014 04:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 60347842  New Zealand07/31/2014 04:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Useless Cookie Eater User ID: 29696048 United States07/31/2014 04:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| pimperish pimpleton User ID: 46214512 United States07/31/2014 04:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What we percieve as allknowing is in fact flawed...most of our conventional mathamatics/physics is compromised or limited because so-called experts don't understand it. One of the most important studies is not the elements or what they are composed of, but rather the design of which allows them to operate as they do...that way the understanding is much broader and can be applied easier!!! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49066246 United States07/31/2014 04:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| LogicBomber User ID: 60765124 United States07/31/2014 04:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No. Power is required. But not propellant/fuel. The universe is basically an animal. It grazes on the ordinary. It creates infinite idiots just to eat them. The Rickest Rick Sanchez comments are meant for entertainment purposes only and should not be construed to reflect the feelings and opinions, implied or expressed, of the author. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 54730910  Canada07/31/2014 04:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Dr. Astro Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 4211721 United States07/31/2014 04:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel? Quoting: Setheory [link to www.wired.co.uk] "Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma." Dude, sweet find! If this is true, this completely changes everything in spaceflight. A propellant-less thruster, this would nearly render the tsiolkovsky rocket equation pointless for all future spaceflight (except perhaps for getting into orbit initially). 720 mN is amazing if true, the ion engine on the Dawn spacecraft only produces 90 mN, and even an ion engine must expend fuel (albeit with very high isp). Not as high thrust as Vasimr, but still much better than ion. Buzz Aldrin's idea of not coming back from a trip to Mars to make it more feasible? Fuck that, you suddenly don't need to expend fuel to break Martian orbit and return to earth. This changes the entire paradigm of spaceflight, if it really does pan out. You could load a bunch of these up on your manned spacecraft and use as much payload fraction for life support and supplies as you please without having to worry about what it will do to your delta-V budget - you don't have a delta-V budget, you have unlimited delta-V as long as you have power. The one concern I have is that in the NASA test they report much lower thrust, 50mN, similar to ion engines (perhaps due to test article differences/power levels?) and even their "null" test article produced thrust. That sends a red flag up in my mind that it could be a spurious detection of thrust that isn't really there due to some sort of interference with the test equipment, but I don't know how. I just don't want to get my hopes up over nothing, but I'm going to be seeing a former astronaut this weekend and I will definitely ask him if he knows anything about this. [link to ntrs.nasa.gov] Dr. Astro, how fast would a engine like that go? are we talking light speed or close to it? No, but we are talking about solar system exploration without needing to spend propellant to make it go (once it's in orbit). That changes things dramatically. Right now virtually all space travel (with the exception of some preliminary solar sail tests) is done on the principle of shooting particles out the back of the spacecraft at high speeds, whether propelled by chemical reaction (low efficiency high thrust) or electromagnetically accelerated ionized gas (high efficiency low thrust). That means you have to spend fuel to accelerate the fuel you're carrying with you. This creates a nasty feedback loop. This thruster would change all that since it doesn't use propellant, it just needs electricity which it can get "for free" from the sun. The low thrust of the first generation design means it will only be useful once you're in orbit, but once there you can slowly accelerate persistently. According to some tests and predictions this should produce more thrust than an ion engine, but still far less than a chemical rocket. That's ok though because you can leave it on for as long as you have power and as long as the device will work (expected lifetime around 15 years I think according to the inventor?). NASA's version produced about as much thrust as a typical ion engine. A second generation design being proposed by the inventor is said to be capable of producing even more acceleration, around half a meter per second^2, so it could supplement air travel and even assist payloads in getting to space, but it would require liquid cryogenics (which would eventually be consumed). It still remains to be proven, but at least the initial NASA test yielded surprisingly positive results. We'll see. Last Edited by Astromut on 07/31/2014 04:37 PM |
| The Joker User ID: 50488077 United States07/31/2014 04:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If the Electric Universe theory is right then magnetic fields will produce thrust. It maybe possible with opposite charged plates like an inside out capacitor, or with a magnectic monopole, or maybe like a modified shaded pole electric motor Quoting: mechaniac The Electric Universe "Theory" is nothing more than pseudoscience. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40922034 United States07/31/2014 04:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The best damn WARP Engineer ever to walk a vessel named Enterprise since good Old ZC himself, Charles 'Trip' Tucker III once opined that all such exotic propulsion methods were achieved with devices designed and built expressly to break the most fundamental laws of the Universe. And more than a little bit of magic, no doubt. Of COURSE they're going to be based on esoteric principles and be hard to comprehend. So long as the magnetic field antimatter containment doesn't fail, I'd still take that ride. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 60347842 New Zealand07/31/2014 04:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| The South Park Agenda User ID: 18998741 United States07/31/2014 04:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here is the paper entitled: Anomalous Thrust Production from an RF Test Device Measured on a Low-Thrust Torsion Pendulum Quoting: Setheory [link to ntrs.nasa.gov] Just read the first paper and this certainly seems legit. “Technically” this does seem to break the law of conservation of momentum. it doesn't, it just is hinting at something that scientist fail to discover with regards to magnetism and eletricity that was known by tesla and many others Thread: Reverse-engineered alien propulsion technology (video) Stuff and goodies... |
