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5 Reasons To Suspect That Jesus Never Existed

 
Milo Jeeder
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09/01/2014 03:40 PM
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5 Reasons To Suspect That Jesus Never Existed
1. No first century secular evidence whatsoever exists to support the actuality of Yeshua ben Yosef. In the words of Bart Ehrman: “What sorts of things do pagan authors from the time of Jesus have to say about him? Nothing. As odd as it may seem, there is no mention of Jesus at all by any of his pagan contemporaries. There are no birth records, no trial transcripts, no death certificates; there are no expressions of interest, no heated slanders, no passing references – nothing. In fact, if we broaden our field of concern to the years after his death – even if we include the entire first century of the Common Era – there is not so much as a solitary reference to Jesus in any non-Christian, non-Jewish source of any kind. I should stress that we do have a large number of documents from the time – the writings of poets, philosophers, historians, scientists, and government officials, for example, not to mention the large collection of surviving inscriptions on stone and private letters and legal documents on papyrus. In none of this vast array of surviving writings is Jesus’ name ever so much as mentioned.” (pp. 56-57)

2. The earliest New Testament writers seem ignorant of the details of Jesus’ life, which become more crystalized in later texts.Paul seems unaware of any virgin birth, for example. No wise men, no star in the east, no miracles. Historians have long puzzled over the “Silence of Paul” on the most basic biographical facts and teachings of Jesus. Paul fails to cite Jesus’ authority precisely when it would make his case. What’s more, he never calls the twelve apostles Jesus’ disciples; in fact, he never says Jesus HAD disciples –or a ministry, or did miracles, or gave teachings. He virtually refuses to disclose any other biographical detail, and the few cryptic hints he offers aren’t just vague, but contradict the gospels. The leaders of the early Christian movement in Jerusalem like Peter and James are supposedly Jesus’ own followers and family; but Paul dismisses them as nobodies and repeatedly opposes them for not being true Christians!

Liberal theologian Marcus Borg suggests that people read the books of the New Testament in chronological order to see how early Christianity unfolded. “Placing the Gospels after Paul makes it clear that as written documents they are not the source of early Christianity but its product. The Gospel — the good news — of and about Jesus existed before the Gospels. They are the products of early Christian communities several decades after Jesus’ historical life and tell us how those communities saw his significance in their historical context.”

3. Even the New Testament stories don’t claim to be first-hand accounts. We now know that the four gospels were assigned the names of the apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, not written by them. To make matter sketchier, the name designations happened sometime in second century, around 100 years or more after Christianity supposedly began. For a variety of reasons, the practice of pseudonymous writing was common at the time and many contemporary documents are “signed” by famous figures. The same is true of the New Testament epistles except for a handful of letters from Paul (6 out of 13) which are broadly thought to be genuine. But even the gospel stories don’t actually say, “I was there.” Rather, they claim the existence of other witnesses, a phenomenon familiar to anyone who has heard the phrase, my aunt knew someone who . . . .

4. The gospels, our only accounts of a historical Jesus, contradict each other.If you think you know the Jesus story pretty well, I suggest that you pause at this point to test yourself with the 20 question quiz at ExChristian.net.

The gospel of Mark is thought to be the earliest existing “life of Jesus,” and linguistic analysis suggests that Luke and Matthew both simply reworked Mark and added their own corrections and new material. But they contradict each other and, to an even greater degree contradict the much later gospel of John, because they were written with different objectives for different audiences. The incompatible Easter stories offer one example of how much the stories disagree.

5. Modern scholars who claim to have uncovered the real historical Jesus depict wildly different persons. They include a cynic philosopher, charismatic Hasid, liberal Pharisee, conservative rabbi, Zealot revolutionary, nonviolent pacifist to borrow from a much longer listassembled by Price. In his words (pp. 15-16), “The historical Jesus (if there was one) might well have been a messianic king, or a progressive Pharisee, or a Galilean shaman, or a magus, or a Hellenistic sage. But he cannot very well have been all of them at the same time.” John Dominic Crossan of the Jesus Seminar grumbles that “the stunning diversity is an academic embarrassment.”

[link to www.salon.com]
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1. No first century secular evidence whatsoever exists to support the actuality of Yeshua ben Yosef. In the words of Bart Ehrman: “What sorts of things do pagan authors from the time of Jesus have to say about him? Nothing. As odd as it may seem, there is no mention of Jesus at all by any of his pagan contemporaries. There are no birth records, no trial transcripts, no death certificates; there are no expressions of interest, no heated slanders, no passing references – nothing. In fact, if we broaden our field of concern to the years after his death – even if we include the entire first century of the Common Era – there is not so much as a solitary reference to Jesus in any non-Christian, non-Jewish source of any kind. I should stress that we do have a large number of documents from the time – the writings of poets, philosophers, historians, scientists, and government officials, for example, not to mention the large collection of surviving inscriptions on stone and private letters and legal documents on papyrus. In none of this vast array of surviving writings is Jesus’ name ever so much as mentioned.” (pp. 56-57)

2. The earliest New Testament writers seem ignorant of the details of Jesus’ life, which become more crystalized in later texts.Paul seems unaware of any virgin birth, for example. No wise men, no star in the east, no miracles. Historians have long puzzled over the “Silence of Paul” on the most basic biographical facts and teachings of Jesus. Paul fails to cite Jesus’ authority precisely when it would make his case. What’s more, he never calls the twelve apostles Jesus’ disciples; in fact, he never says Jesus HAD disciples –or a ministry, or did miracles, or gave teachings. He virtually refuses to disclose any other biographical detail, and the few cryptic hints he offers aren’t just vague, but contradict the gospels. The leaders of the early Christian movement in Jerusalem like Peter and James are supposedly Jesus’ own followers and family; but Paul dismisses them as nobodies and repeatedly opposes them for not being true Christians!

Liberal theologian Marcus Borg suggests that people read the books of the New Testament in chronological order to see how early Christianity unfolded. “Placing the Gospels after Paul makes it clear that as written documents they are not the source of early Christianity but its product. The Gospel — the good news — of and about Jesus existed before the Gospels. They are the products of early Christian communities several decades after Jesus’ historical life and tell us how those communities saw his significance in their historical context.”

3. Even the New Testament stories don’t claim to be first-hand accounts. We now know that the four gospels were assigned the names of the apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, not written by them. To make matter sketchier, the name designations happened sometime in second century, around 100 years or more after Christianity supposedly began. For a variety of reasons, the practice of pseudonymous writing was common at the time and many contemporary documents are “signed” by famous figures. The same is true of the New Testament epistles except for a handful of letters from Paul (6 out of 13) which are broadly thought to be genuine. But even the gospel stories don’t actually say, “I was there.” Rather, they claim the existence of other witnesses, a phenomenon familiar to anyone who has heard the phrase, my aunt knew someone who . . . .

4. The gospels, our only accounts of a historical Jesus, contradict each other.If you think you know the Jesus story pretty well, I suggest that you pause at this point to test yourself with the 20 question quiz at ExChristian.net.

The gospel of Mark is thought to be the earliest existing “life of Jesus,” and linguistic analysis suggests that Luke and Matthew both simply reworked Mark and added their own corrections and new material. But they contradict each other and, to an even greater degree contradict the much later gospel of John, because they were written with different objectives for different audiences. The incompatible Easter stories offer one example of how much the stories disagree.

5. Modern scholars who claim to have uncovered the real historical Jesus depict wildly different persons. They include a cynic philosopher, charismatic Hasid, liberal Pharisee, conservative rabbi, Zealot revolutionary, nonviolent pacifist to borrow from a much longer listassembled by Price. In his words (pp. 15-16), “The historical Jesus (if there was one) might well have been a messianic king, or a progressive Pharisee, or a Galilean shaman, or a magus, or a Hellenistic sage. But he cannot very well have been all of them at the same time.” John Dominic Crossan of the Jesus Seminar grumbles that “the stunning diversity is an academic embarrassment.”

[link to www.salon.com]
 Quoting: Milo Jeeder 1904691

Salon.com.......
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stupthrd
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Satan is getting desperate
Anonymous Coward
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my spirit tells me otherwise, sorry but nice try.
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my spirit tells me otherwise, sorry but nice try.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15022872


Your "spirit" is simply delusion, self-induced. Try this if you are intellectually honest:

[link to www.jesusneverexisted.com]
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Zeus existed. Zeus is Jesus. Actually read the book by Gerald Massey titled "The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ"

[link to gerald-massey.org.uk]
Any Who

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my spirit tells me otherwise, sorry but nice try.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15022872


Your "spirit" is simply delusion, self-induced. Try this if you are intellectually honest:

[link to www.jesusneverexisted.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62319140


Great book to read "Case for Christ", Historians don't question the existent of Christ they ONLY question who He was. Case Closed.
Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

The Bible could say more than it does BUT
The Bible doesn't say more than it says.
The Bible says what it means and means what it says.

[link to www.jesus-is-savior.com]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: 5 Reasons To Suspect That Jesus Never Existed
THE SUN OF GOD....The light of the world, GODS SUN, The savior of human kind. Start with the first messiah HORUS called the first Lamb of GOD and work forward. Look, GOD the creator is real no doubt. Its just that there is very little evidence that Jesus really did exist as a living man. But does it really even matter? You believe as you like and let others do the same. Pre bible writings are truly amazing to read and this blew my mind when I researched it.

I am not saying yes or no so don't start with me over this. Those folks back in the day carved this history in stone for a reason. Don't ask my why but its there. Just try to open your mind to it as possibility if you choose.

Oh and,I am not telling you what to think, someone else has already done that.





God is in this pic typing on the cosmic computer of creation see it you can find him. He is sitting on the right facing left looking at the light from what looks like a table or screen. Its very cool. White hair and to scale. Not small but blow it up full screen. Once again,if you choose.
Have a Blessed day.

[link to hubblesite.org]
lamb232

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There is secular evidence.I went to college and was taught he existed by an athiest professor .He just would not admit to the miracles.All of this will be irrelevant to you because you want him to not exist.We all choose our paths.Why is it important to you to disprove Jesus? What are you afraid of?I won't stay and argue because you will not be willing to believe anyway.I will pray for you.
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pathetic attempt
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Inerrancia

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popcornx
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"The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil."

John 15:18
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Those are 5 very good reasons. And there are many more no doubt.
I don't see how people can continue to believe in this Roman invented and enforced-on-the-world god-is-a-man religion. But their making it the law and the government (as Islamic countries do with their religion these days) made it stick, and now generations later even when people are not forced on pain of death and torture to believe it, they still do, just because it is so engrained in their culture and upbringing and has been around for so long.
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Jesus existed. He did plenty of yard work around Mitt Romney's mansion.
SaintVron

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I am sure that he Lives. Jesus wants people who will seek him, and you are doing that in your own way, if you try everything and still can't find him, you may have to give yourself to him ask him into your heart, don't be afraid let it happen,

right now you are like a fish and Jesus is a fisher of men he is in us because we swallowed the bait it was Holy and True and it filled us with Love that is what you are afraid of because you don't want it you prefer false love and false food until you repent and prepare, make yourself clean, when you let God's love in, you are complete but not until. SaintVron
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St Vron
don't cast pearls to swine. Allow them to mock and scorn
in their foolishness. Its not our problem.
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Whether he existed or not is irrelevant to the worth of what is taught by the character in the Gospels.

Plain, simple Truth, which if followed will lead the world to peace and prosperity.


The problem isn't Jesus.

It is that the millions of supposed followers of him do not do what he said to do.
Lime Flavoured Redux

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Jesus existed. He did plenty of yard work around Mitt Romney's mansion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 53415893


lol
boogerman

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This guy doesn't either, but he hits the nail on the head.


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Re: 5 Reasons To Suspect That Jesus Never Existed
there are WAAAAY more reasons to believe Jesus is who he said he is…


yt: The Bible Is True! ~ The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict
[link to www.youtube.com]
yt: Walter Veith (13) Battle of the Bibles /Total Onslaught
[link to www.youtube.com]
youtube: The Resurrection Argument That Changed a Generation of Scholars - Gary Habermas at UCSB [link to youtu.be]
yt: The Forbidden Book - History of The English Bible (Documentary Film)
[link to www.youtube.com]
yt: A Lamp In The Dark:untold history of Bible ~ Full Film
[link to www.youtube.com]

yt: Caesar's Messiah Debunked - Joseph Atwill's Covert Messiah Refuted
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]


yt: Jesus: Evidence, ancient historical sources
[link to youtu.be]

Part I: Evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ by Simon Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University. Dr. Greenleaf was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated: 
"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).

Part II examines evidence from the non-biblical sources of nineteen pagan writers that refer to Jesus Christ of the first century such as Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger. Also doucmented by Flavius Josephus, the greatest historian of the Jews.
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"I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between Him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creation of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him."

~ Napoleon Bonaparte

"A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of the world. It was a perfect act."

~ Mahatma Gandhi

"Fundamentally, our Lord's message was Himself. He did not come merely to preach a Gospel; He himself is that Gospel. He did not come merely to give bread; He said, "I am the bread." He did not come merely to shed light; He said, "I am the light." He did not come merely to show the door; He said, "I am the door." ...He did not come merely to point the way; He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life."

~ J. Sidlow

"For thirty five years of my life I was, in the proper acceptation of the word, nihilist, a man who believed in nothing. Five years ago my faith came to me. I believed in the doctrine of Jesus Christ and my whole life underwent a sudden transformation. Life and death ceased to be evil. Instead of despair, I tasted joy and happiness that death could not take away."

~ Leo Tolstoy

"Jesus is God spelling Himself out in language that men can understand."

~ S.D. Gordon

"Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb and purge my heart by the Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of thy son, Jesus Christ."

~ George Washington, 1st President of the United States

"In praise of Thy goodness I must confess that Thou didst try with all Thy means to draw me to Thee. Sometimes it pleased Thee to let me feel the heavy hand of Thy displeasure and to humiliate my proud heart by manifold castigations. Sickness and misfortune didst Thou send upon me to turn my thoughts to my errantries. - One thing, only, O Father, do I ask: cease not to labor for my betterment. In whatsoever manner it be, let me turn to Thee and become fruitful in good works."

~ Ludwig van Beethoven

"...I live with God ever before me. I recognize His omnipotence, I fear His anger; I acknowledge His love, too, His compassion and mercy towards all His creatures; He will never desert those who serve Him."

~ Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

"I believe there is no one deeper, lovelier, more sympathetic and more perfect than Jesus - not only is there no one else like him, there never could be anyone like him."

~ Fyodor Dostoevsky

"Socrates taught for 40 years, Plato for 50, Aristotle for 40, and Jesus for only 3. Yet the influence of Christ's 3-year ministry infinitely transcends the impact left by the combined 130 years of teaching from these men who were among the greatest philosophers of all antiquity."

~ Unknown

"As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene....No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."

~ Albert Einstein

"Despite our efforts to keep him out, God intrudes. The life of Jesus is bracketed by two impossibilities: 'a virgin's womb and an empty tomb'.

Jesus entered our world through a door marked, 'No Entrance' and left through a door marked 'No Exit.'

~ Peter Larson

"People talk about imitating Christ, and imitate Him in the little trifling formal things, such as washing the feet, saying His prayer, and so on; but if anyone attempts the real imitation of Him, there are no bounds to the outcry with which the presumption of that person is condemned."

~ Florence Nightingale, British nursing hero of the Crimean War (1820 -1910)

Buddha never claimed to be God.

Moses never claimed to be Jehovah.

Mohammed never claimed to be Allah.

Yet Jesus Christ claimed to be the true and living God.

Buddha simply said, 'I am a teacher in search of the truth.'

Jesus said, 'I am the Truth.'

Confucius said, 'I never claimed to be holy.'

Jesus said, 'Who convicts me of sin?'

Mohammed said, 'Unless God throws his cloak of mercy over me, I have no hope.'

Jesus said, 'Unless you believe in me, you will die in your sins.'"
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“The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power. My mother taught me to seek all truth in the Bible.”
--Nikola Tesla

Head of Human Genome Project, Dr. Francis Collins, converts to Christianity
"I set out to prove that my atheist position was correct."


"The laws of nature produce no events, they state the pattern to which every event have only and can be induced to happen, must conform. Just as the rules of Arithmetic state the pattern to which all transactions of money, must conform, if only you can get a hold of any money. Thus in one sense the laws of nature cover the whole field of space and time. In another what they leave out is precisely the whole real universe. The incessant "
"For every law says in the last resort: 'If you have A, then B."
But first catch your A.
The laws will not do it for you."
--C.S.Lewis


"My worldly faculties are slipping away day by day Happy it is for all of us that the true good does not lie in them.
As they ebb, may they leave us as little children, trusting in the Father of Mercies and accepting His unspeakable gift.
I bow before Him who is Lord of all."

Michael Faraday, on his death bed, one of the greatest experimental philosophers, Doctorate from Oxford University, holding 97 unsought for distinctions who discovered Electricity
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"After six years given to the impartial investigation of Christianity as to its truth or falsity, I have come to the deliberate conclusion that Jesus Christ was the Messiah of the Jews, the Savior of the world and my own personal Redeemer." -- General Lew Wallace, one-time atheist, military general and literary genius, who along with Robert Ingersoll agreed together they would write a book that would forever destroy the myth of Christianity. Mr. Wallace studied for two years in the leading libraries of Europe and America for information to destroy Christianity. While writing the second chapter of his book, he suddenly found himself on his knees, crying out, "My Lord and my God." The evidence was overwhelmingly conclusive. Later, Wallace wrote "Ben Hur" one of the greatest Christian novels.
~ General Lew Wallace

"Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb and purge my heart by the Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of thy son, Jesus Christ."
~ George Washington, 1st President of the United States
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stupthrd
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20012861


About a stupid as anyone who uses that sign with its spelling mistake.

Face it .. hey-Zeus ain't real bitchez
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sorry not correct.
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youtube: Dinosaurs and Humans Co-existing? You Decide.
[link to www.youtube.com]

The Privileged Planet
[link to www.youtube.com]

Patrick Henry made a very clear statement: "It cannot be emphasized too often or too strongly that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians; not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ....It is for this reason that people of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity and freedom of worship here."
Lime Flavoured Redux

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Re: 5 Reasons To Suspect That Jesus Never Existed
There is secular evidence.I went to college and was taught he existed by an athiest professor .He just would not admit to the miracles.
 Quoting: lamb232


That's pretty much my opinion. I believe Jesus existed but not that he was devine. The miracles can be explained as things being exaggerated or flat out made up by later people.
fishingnut

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Re: 5 Reasons To Suspect That Jesus Never Existed
The Roman historian Tacitus tells of "Christus" the leader of the Christians being put to death by Pontius Pilate. He goes on to describe the spread of the new religion to Rome. The tone of the writing is very hostile to Christianity, which one would expect coming from a first century Roman official.





GLP