Were You Part Of The "Mentally Gifted Minds" Program In California Scools back in the 70's?

It's not your fault. It was an inevitability. Your nature is very similar to mine. I tend to be a very proactive person, too.



Although I know that this is a bit of a privacy breach, email me at alice_carroll @ rocketmail.com. It is an email account that I created for this thread alone so, in the interest of your privacy, I'd suggest doing the same. Yahoo doesn't care how many accounts you have, lol. Once you email me, I can give you the pdf of Krippner's "Hypnosis and Creativity" from the 1965 Gifted Child Quarterly. It discusses hypnosis, post-hypnotic suggestion and LSD. Showing your family that particular article may be the thing that starts getting them to question things, too. I have thought, time and time again, of some way to publicly disseminate that article in its current form but am afraid that if I do, I'd get slapped down hard, at the least, for copyright issues. I would do an anonymous dump to pastebin but, unfortunately, that isn't going to preserve the actual image of it being through that particular academic journal. It'd make it useless in proving anything. Anyone who would like the pdf is welcome to email me. I just urge the use of new "dummy" accounts for privacy's sake.

I, too, want to make sure that they never do any of this ever again. That is my primary goal as a mother and as someone who has always wanted to protect our most vulnerable class--children.

Oh right.Thats it.

To Lisa:

In regards to how much of me was program, god, do I know that one. I came into this thread in January and I was literally ripping through the house as I read through it in its entirety, grabbing those objects that were directly associated via this thread to the program. It was horrible to see how much of this long forgotten program was still present in my life. That was just the beginning. The more I read and researched, I realized that even the way that I fundamentally thought was pure program. I cannot even tell you how many times this really drove me towards despair and tears. The grief is unimaginable but absolutely survivable. I know that I have torn most of it down at this point and I cannot express how good that feels. Even though, like you, I would probably now be painted as a crazy conspiracist by the majority, I wouldn't trade it for anything because my mind is my own now. I know it in my core. Everything is changed.

In regards to animals: That would most likely be Gowan. He discussed in the now taken down "Operations of Increasing Order" the abilities of animals. It's kind of funny but my baby kitty died in May and I was just talking to my fiance about how frustrated I was because I couldn't quite communicate nearly as well with the new kitten and adult cat belonging to my children. Even if I can't get into their heads, I can soothe them by will to get what needs to be done done whether it's a litter box oopsy with the kitten or tending to a serious injury on the adult. They will literally slump into me.

In regards to Gowan's NDS self test, I did take it. I did very well according to his measures (highly self actualized). It was kind of humorous that the areas where I got a N were completely traced back to the program. He also didn't seem to have that high of an opinion of people because he couldn't iamgine somebody hating lying so much as to not lie, lol. I do have my results on a notepad still on my computer, complete with a snarky remark at Gowan for a N lol. The scoring was complex though. There was a rule for a 4 answer if there was no S? Or something like that. I don't know if what I have got would help. My S score was 60 in the end so I guess it could still be used to measure that. It makes me grimly mad that they took that down, too.

Much of what is out there in regards to MK-ULTRA is polluted as hell with either disinfo or crazy. I did find this which seems to be the Church Commission's investigation into MK-ULTRA: [link to www.nytimes.com] I haven't read through it in its entirety yet. It's tough reading at times because I end up shouting at my monitor, lol. (And no, the monitor doesn't answer back, lol, so I'm all good.)

Thank you for such a candid and open answer to my questions, it's refreshing to read. It seems the more I investigate, the more questions I have. I'm beginning to think that my absolute outrage to being lied to or deceived and the way that I freak out when my arms are pinned down come from this part of my childhood. I am so full of mixed emotions at this point, I can't sort it all out. Which for me, means many sleepless nights and lots of googling. But I will keep myself as contained as possible on here, as it's infuriating to know that as a collective whole, we have the answers. And I don't wish to antagonize those who feel threatened into silence. So even though it's my nature to just keep typing and asking and stating when nobody else is replying, I'll try to keep it in check.

A major component to the big picture of this whole thing is child trafficking and the occult.It just keeps popping up everywhere I research.So many things make more sense when you see how the systems and structures behind all this work

I thought about adding don't worry about bouncing/sharing ideas, recollections, findings or whatever with the thread. Kind of wish I had. I look at it this way. I spent 30 years of my life trying to remember my childhood to no avail as things were. THIS thread unlocked much of it (and I'm still "unlocking"). That's why I do tend to write a lot of detail, too. What I've found here and in private conversations with other gifted from outside of this thread is that similarities of experience or behavior crop up in the least expected areas and through actually just talking. Things that don't seem pertinent suddenly are pertinent when you have several people saying, "yes". With shattered memories and the peculiarities of the program that we've uncovered, I think it's pretty safe to say that those things that we may have written off as personal eccentricities or whatever may not be quite so limited to just us as individuals. If we can find those commonalities and they are diffusely common, then we can be more assured of it being possibly related to the program. That's how I see it. As far as those who choose to be silent, I don't blame them and I do get why. Even if they don't respond, it's still food for thought.

Was going to add about the butterfly effect that you remember. GAIA hypothesis is one of the things that I found mentioned in some of the gifted curriculum. That would include the butterfly effect as the kind of poster child statement is that a butterfly flapping its wings in the Amazon can create a monsoon in India. Not sure if that will ring a bell but that is why the butterfly effect is called the butterfly effect from what I can recall. Kind of an ecological ripple effect, I guess, because I also had the hypothesis taught to me in ecology courses in college.

I know I've said a number of times (probably ad nauseam) that my mother feared my disappearing. That fear had to have come from somewhere and Oppenheimer's "Speed of Thought" features gifted children who were taken from their families (on a premise of there being an issue). Could have been a flight of fictional fantasy or who knows. It's a movie so what can one do? lol It's still interesting though. I haven't seen any really trustworthy sources on the child trafficking aspect (also haven't looked THAT heavily into it). What I do know is that last fall, Anon went after several websites on the darknet that had to do with child pornography. The DoJ claimed that they (Anon) interfered with their investigation but Anon managed to get names and information of individuals involved in it very rapidly. I find that slowness dealing with that to be kind of troubling and an indicator of possibly having an "in-house" issue (not implying the DoJ per se but some people somewhere).

The occult does pop up a whole lot. My take on that (and I could very much be wrong) is that the reason why we keeping seeing the occult is because of the parapsychology interest in the program. I know that, for me personally, when regarding things like crystals, tarot, fetishes and whatnot, I've seen them as mere tools that are used to help open the mind--not that the individual item had any power in itself. So could be pure parapsychology as the reason for that. Then again, you toss in Crowley and his humonculous (probably butchered the spelling) and there's also the potential of that, too. On my most cynical days, I think that it was injected into it for the purpose of basically getting people to shut down when listening to a victim of it. I agree though, it does come up a lot and with a curious frequency indeed.

I'm still dealing with the long term effects of being trafficked. It's rather hard to get sympathy as an educated English speaking adult, especially one at the top of the curve. There's this assumption that the trafficked get used only for sex and are then dumped in a ditch or that we obviously came from somewhere terrible so I should somehow be grateful for landing in the "land of the free" and the education, etcetera, that I received.
I've got a serious protectiveness of at risk under-appreciated populations thanks to that one and I STILL miss my mother even though it's been decades since I was little and saw her. Bleh. Sometimes I still want to scream.

Trafficking is downright noxious and can be for other things beyond sex for sure. It's just more likely to have that occur as well because the child is already vulnerable.

Eh, that just comes with the territory. I must have given a dozen paedos STDs. And I'm still not in a ditch, mwahahhaa.

Lol, my words are true but my sense of humour is fucking warped.

Sometimes all you can do is have a fucking warped sense of humour and find the albeit twisted silver linings. Provides that little dash of karma.

Thanks again Armchair, when I read your thoughts on the butterfly effect, I was immediately covered in goosebumps.
Wow, I have really spent most of my life under a rock. I had no idea about the trafficking and sexual abuse etc. Probably because my own childhood was inundated with abuse from every angle, so they wouldn't need to do those things to me to produce the mental fracturing that allowed me to use left and right hemispheres interchangeably. Also causing a natural astral projection ability. I am also beginning to think that within the program were many subprograms. I have remembered huge chunks of my swiss cheese memories and yet I still wonder which parts of my core self are really mine and not just programming? I never hung out with and barely knew the dozens of kids throughout grades 3-9 (when I took the CHSPE and left school). It's ironic to me that the occult aspect as I remember being shown the back area of the school library and allowed to take freely, any book back there without checking it out. I was encouraged to read a certain spellbook that was back there. Not the book of shadows or anything of that sort either. I was taught to harness the power not copy someone else's method of doing so. Does that ring any bells? What led me to think about the MGM was a series of odd suggestions that began to pop up on my youtube account. After several such occurances, I started following the suggestions and that led to pandora's box.

Indian boarding school scandals in canada.I noticed many here were adopted and of native descent.

I don't know if I was sexually abused or if, I was, that it necessarily had something to do with the program. All I know is that I have had therapists mention that I do have a whole lot of signs of someone who had been sexually abused as a child. If I had a creepy uncle, then it would be a simple answer but I don't. I have some incomplete memories that are "odd" but nothing firm and nothing that I can definitively say classify as sex abuse. Other types of abuse? Definitely. Whereas I don't hold much value in a lot of the conspiracy theories out there (I think most are probably riddled to hell with disinfo), the one thing that is interesting is that dissociation generally comes from abuse and dissociatives are frequently more readily hypnotizable because they are rather disconnected from their bodies. When you have a program using "visual based relaxation techniques" (or just flat out stating "hypnosis"), then I can't help but wonder if they looked for children that were both gifted and abused for that purpose--that ambiguous "other" aspect outside of just intelligence for selection to the program. It also begs the question as to why we may be, as a whole, more resistant to it now, despite possible dissociation. On my nice days, I think that maybe they just taught us ways to swiss cheese ourselves so we could deal better with our abusive environments. I don't know. Too many questions, too many possibilities, and too few straight answers. It's truly frustrating. That said, I'm also pragmatic enough to acknowledge the possibility of some very serious shenanigans involving children and god knows, gifted children have zero protections really outside of their parents' interests. Crappy interest level in a parent could equal hell.

Kaw--I noted a few, too. The boarding schools in the US were pretty damn abusive. I heard many firsthand accounts of some of what occurred in them while living on a reservation for 7 years. Abuse and indoctrination, stripping of individual tribal customs and language--kind of a similar theme, isn't it? Native kids would be basically taken from their homes and put into these schools only to be returned with the language, customs and beliefs pretty much gone (depending on age). Adoptions, too. I know some tribes in the US fought for years to get some of their children back. Many of those adoptions that I'm aware of were through the Mormon church so different entity but surely enabled by the government considering the legal battles.

Esalen.

Edit: Expanding that one (in process):

Krippner: [link to www.esalen.org]

Gowan: no direct link but indirect one (aside from writings on the Esalen theme). Self-actualization test was based on Abraham Maslow--> Esalen.

Also spotted a few CVs of former gifted educators with previous stints at Esalen.

Dabrowski, too: [link to www.positivedisintegration.com]

[link to books.google.com]

No hits for Joseph P. Price, Dr. Mary Meeker or Don Bushnell in regards to Esalen.

Last Edited by Porcelain on 12/10/2012 03:45 PM

Funny thing is it included Shriners towards the beginning. According to google you have to be a certain level Mason before becoming a Shriner. I feel like a really badly written conspiracy book. Really badly written.

Eh, I don't want to drag this thread off of it's eternal course.
Back to the education...

I think it's important to stick with those things that we can definitively connect to the program, itself. Just hear me out and, most of all, do your own checking. Esalen is an interesting one in regards to that as much of what people have been saying and suggesting on this thread has been Esalen's overall principles. Esalen, on their own website, even brings up the subject of X-Men and Prof. Xavier's School of the Gifted.

We're all familiar with Aldous Huxley via a Brave New World. Well, Huxley had a pretty serious fascination with mind control experimentation as, in this speech, he discusses visiting laboratories where some now well known experiments (like the rats and the pleasure centers) were going on:

[link to pulsemedia.org]

[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

It's interesting because Krippner quotes both Aldous and his brother, Julian, in Hypnosis and Creativity, in his argument for using hypnosis and post-hypnotic suggestion on us. Furthermore, Esalen is based on Huxley's ideas of "human potential" (X-Men). Anybody who had a chance to read Gowan's Operations of Increasing Order should recognize that Gowan, too, was talking decidedly about human potential (exotic ability) as well as introducing an idea of the creation of a paradigm shift with the purpose of bringing in more order. McKenna's Timewave Zero is the same bloody thing and McKenna was a teacher at Esalen as well as Krippner. So what we've got here are some pretty heavy and serious links between what's purportedly in a lot of people's heads on this thread with researchers and leaders of the programs, and Esalen. You've got an institute based off of the Huxleys' ideas, using the Huxleys prolifically in quotes (Gowan quoted them extensively as well) and it was both of the Huxley's that suggested the use of hypnosis on children. Then you have us with a good number of us spouting the very principles of Esalen, (most likely tied through Gowan and Krippner)--interconnectivity, ideas of a collective unconscious (inward seeking instead of outward), human potential and why not toss in the "something is coming" feeling.

I found this trialogue to be very, very interesting in regards to what McKenna says about 2012: [link to youtu.be]

One thing that I suspect about the "truth" is that it doesn't take hypnosis and post-hypnotic suggestion on children to get to. It should be self-evident.

Please check out Esalen.

I don't think I've found enough info on Esalen to understand the connection. I lived near Monterey from grades 5 - 9 and remember an mgm fieldtrip to big sur. But all I can remember is eating in a coffee shop made of redwood. Don't know for sure why that bothers me. I think I'm more disturbed by the 2 day silence on here.

We're preparing for the end of the world...or are out xmas shopping.

Funny, mine was called TAG, talented and gifted

Look at their principles. You might have been too late to read Gowan but it's a match in principles and Esalen was the source.

We had a shooting here, hence my silence.

I am curious to know if anyone else has had unusual neurological/spinal issues arise as young adults, just trying to play connect the dots without an answer key.

I am finding all kinda stuff these days on masonry.What was the south park episode?The super adventure club.

The base of the spine and back of the neck seem to be favorite feeding spots for inter dimensional parasites.

Very interesting...I had spinal meningitis at age 3...both bacterial and viral infections...miraculously, i lived when most others died from it in the 70's...

I've skipped on most of this thread...posted way back when...haven't come back to it before now...

I was in a program called AGP, was in (or eligible for) Mensa in first grade...

Very interesting stuff in this thread.

I remember reading early in this thread references to vaccines the one that leaves a circular scar on the arm? Is there anyone else that didn't scar from it? I am the only person in my family who's scar completely disappeared.

Wow, first quote is me to a T...I get on everyone's nerves by how much I want to learn...

Second quote...I am remembering SO freaking much after reading some of these posts!!!! Wow! What the hell happened to all of those memories?

Speed reader, yep, crazy tests, yep, attended AGP once a week, my IQ was tested at over 160 in first grade...

It's going to take me a year to read this thread!!!!!!

Another triggered memory!!!!!! The starfish!!! Disected a worm and a frog too!!!!

Not sure what the heck you are talking about. The people responding here were indeed in programs--based on their academic performance and IQ tests--that had such labels as "gifted and talented."

...I do agree, though, that some can get off on their sense of "specialness." But really, if that's where they are at, who cares?

Last Edited by Jovian on 12/15/2012 01:51 AM