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'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151  Australia07/13/2021 10:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 I think 'matter is an illusion' is an over simplification of Quantum theory. Regardless, you can't know the state of the turtle if its outside our universe. Maybe Quantum theory does not apply there. I have read Aquinas's argument, but I'd have to brush up on it again in order to provide any kind of rebuttal. From memory, it seemed to smuggle some doctrine specific assumptions into the premises, like the Kalaam Cosmological argument, which can -at best- demonstrate a first cause, but not any specific personal deity. Do that. Basically, according to logic, which is revered in science, there must be a creator that we call God, and He must be good. If you're so convinced, you should be able to provide a basic deductive syllogism. ie: All dogs are mammals All mammals are warm blooded Therefor, dogs are warm blooded Can you at least tell me which arguments you consider to be proof? Is it these? [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] Those are St Thomas's arguments with which I agree... I have already stated mine, and do not wish to further repeat myself... You never made any arguments. You asserted that existence is proof of the god you believe in. And you said that things can't come from nothing, but you didn't provide any reason why god can be eternal and nothing else can be. It's going to take a while to pick apart these five 13th century Aquinas arguments, but I'll get back to you. |
Revolution of Consciousness  User ID: 35990220  United States07/13/2021 10:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Carl Jung, a firm believer on the opposite of Dawkins has said the same. He can't prove he exists. Both existing or not existing could have equally true arguments. That's the nature of nature. Quoting: SafeandSound Jung concluded if both are possible it's better to believe the positive option, is it not? We cannot prove gravity, only the effects...Just because we lack information does not mean a thing cannot exist... Correct. This is why the burden of proof is on the positive assertion. An idea is not justified by the lack of a reason to think something can not exist. An idea is justified by reasons to think it does exist. There are an infinite amount of theoretical things that we can't disprove. I am living proof of a creator and if you do not believe what your senses tell you, I cannot help you...We call it faith because we cannot measure it... How do you prove anything exists? By measuring it...We had to create machines to measure particles, and someday perhaps we will build a machine to speak to God...Moses had a "staff" which was an interface to directly communicate with God... You call it faith because by nature god cannot be verified. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia07/13/2021 10:47 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Isn't an atheist a person that does not know if god is real or not? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80500916 Why is it special an atheist said this? Most atheists would say, of course it is possible a god exists or not. The primary point being the do not know one way or the other. It usually means someone that does not believe in a god. But Dawkins has always openly said he can't disprove God. Sorta like gravity, eh? You can prove it exists, but you can't prove it exists... We can't prove gravity exists, but it doesn't matter because the laws we produce around gravity have real world applications and predictive power. God is not comparable at all. Proof is mostly limited to math. The goal of science is not to find truth, but to create models with predictive power. |
| BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States07/13/2021 10:48 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF Do that. Basically, according to logic, which is revered in science, there must be a creator that we call God, and He must be good. If you're so convinced, you should be able to provide a basic deductive syllogism. ie: All dogs are mammals All mammals are warm blooded Therefor, dogs are warm blooded Can you at least tell me which arguments you consider to be proof? Is it these? [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] Those are St Thomas's arguments with which I agree... I have already stated mine, and do not wish to further repeat myself... You never made any arguments. You asserted that existence is proof of the god you believe in. And you said that things can't come from nothing, but you didn't provide any reason why god can be eternal and nothing else can be. It's going to take a while to pick apart these five 13th century Aquinas arguments, but I'll get back to you. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, perhaps you are trying to convince yourself, as I have already drawn my conclusions... I am not attempting to convince you of the facts, because that's impossible, as "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still" ~ Benjamin Franklin I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia07/13/2021 11:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 If you're so convinced, you should be able to provide a basic deductive syllogism. ie: All dogs are mammals All mammals are warm blooded Therefor, dogs are warm blooded Can you at least tell me which arguments you consider to be proof? Is it these? [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] Those are St Thomas's arguments with which I agree... I have already stated mine, and do not wish to further repeat myself... You never made any arguments. You asserted that existence is proof of the god you believe in. And you said that things can't come from nothing, but you didn't provide any reason why god can be eternal and nothing else can be. It's going to take a while to pick apart these five 13th century Aquinas arguments, but I'll get back to you. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, perhaps you are trying to convince yourself, as I have already drawn my conclusions... I am not attempting to convince you of the facts, because that's impossible, as "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still" ~ Benjamin Franklin If there is proof of your god I'd like to see it. In my experience, people who say that are using the word proof too loosely. Proof is not a subjective thing. It's not impossible to convince me of facts, but you claimed that you know your god exists, it has been proven, and that logic itself necessitates that you are correct. That's a bold claim that warrants some backing up. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia07/13/2021 12:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Even theists have pointed out the problems with these arguments over the centuries. I wrote up my own responses to the first two, but then I realized that these arguments are just straight up fucking silly. Plenty of people have tackled them, including Dawkins. I think this guy has an appropriate response. |
| BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States07/13/2021 01:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF Those are St Thomas's arguments with which I agree... I have already stated mine, and do not wish to further repeat myself... You never made any arguments. You asserted that existence is proof of the god you believe in. And you said that things can't come from nothing, but you didn't provide any reason why god can be eternal and nothing else can be. It's going to take a while to pick apart these five 13th century Aquinas arguments, but I'll get back to you. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, perhaps you are trying to convince yourself, as I have already drawn my conclusions... I am not attempting to convince you of the facts, because that's impossible, as "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still" ~ Benjamin Franklin If there is proof of your god I'd like to see it. In my experience, people who say that are using the word proof too loosely. Proof is not a subjective thing. It's not impossible to convince me of facts, but you claimed that you know your god exists, it has been proven, and that logic itself necessitates that you are correct. That's a bold claim that warrants some backing up. I have backed it up, you refuse to accept it. You do not believe what's in front of your face and I cannot make you see. Good luck I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 80598746 United States07/13/2021 01:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 80331438  United Kingdom07/13/2021 05:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia07/13/2021 10:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 You never made any arguments. You asserted that existence is proof of the god you believe in. And you said that things can't come from nothing, but you didn't provide any reason why god can be eternal and nothing else can be. It's going to take a while to pick apart these five 13th century Aquinas arguments, but I'll get back to you. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, perhaps you are trying to convince yourself, as I have already drawn my conclusions... I am not attempting to convince you of the facts, because that's impossible, as "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still" ~ Benjamin Franklin If there is proof of your god I'd like to see it. In my experience, people who say that are using the word proof too loosely. Proof is not a subjective thing. It's not impossible to convince me of facts, but you claimed that you know your god exists, it has been proven, and that logic itself necessitates that you are correct. That's a bold claim that warrants some backing up. I have backed it up, you refuse to accept it. You do not believe what's in front of your face and I cannot make you see. Good luck What are you talking about? What's in front of my face? You haven't presented anything. You have faith, not logical arguments, evidence or proof. And that's fine, but don't piss on me and call it rain. |
| BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States07/14/2021 07:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, perhaps you are trying to convince yourself, as I have already drawn my conclusions... I am not attempting to convince you of the facts, because that's impossible, as "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still" ~ Benjamin Franklin If there is proof of your god I'd like to see it. In my experience, people who say that are using the word proof too loosely. Proof is not a subjective thing. It's not impossible to convince me of facts, but you claimed that you know your god exists, it has been proven, and that logic itself necessitates that you are correct. That's a bold claim that warrants some backing up. I have backed it up, you refuse to accept it. You do not believe what's in front of your face and I cannot make you see. Good luck What are you talking about? What's in front of my face? You haven't presented anything. You have faith, not logical arguments, evidence or proof. And that's fine, but don't piss on me and call it rain. I have faith in logic! I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia07/14/2021 08:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 If there is proof of your god I'd like to see it. In my experience, people who say that are using the word proof too loosely. Proof is not a subjective thing. It's not impossible to convince me of facts, but you claimed that you know your god exists, it has been proven, and that logic itself necessitates that you are correct. That's a bold claim that warrants some backing up. I have backed it up, you refuse to accept it. You do not believe what's in front of your face and I cannot make you see. Good luck What are you talking about? What's in front of my face? You haven't presented anything. You have faith, not logical arguments, evidence or proof. And that's fine, but don't piss on me and call it rain. I have faith in logic! You keep using that word. Logic. I don't think you know what it means. Logic isn't just your personal opinion, or common sense. There's deductive and inductive logic. There are fallacies, premises, conclusions... you're just asserting things. 'Things can't come from nothing, therefor god' is objectively not a logical argument. It's a non sequitur. In order for that to be logical, you need to explain why god can be eternal and un-caused but nothing else can be. |
| BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States07/14/2021 09:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF I have backed it up, you refuse to accept it. You do not believe what's in front of your face and I cannot make you see. Good luck What are you talking about? What's in front of my face? You haven't presented anything. You have faith, not logical arguments, evidence or proof. And that's fine, but don't piss on me and call it rain. I have faith in logic! You keep using that word. Logic. I don't think you know what it means. Logic isn't just your personal opinion, or common sense. There's deductive and inductive logic. There are fallacies, premises, conclusions... you're just asserting things. 'Things can't come from nothing, therefor god' is objectively not a logical argument. It's a non sequitur. In order for that to be logical, you need to explain why god can be eternal and un-caused but nothing else can be. LOL In the sixth grade, my teacher, a nun, tested us on logic and was so astounded by my flawless logic tests, all 100%. that she stood me up in class and declared me a genius... Do not question my logic LOL I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States07/14/2021 09:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Upon further tests, I scored into the 99th percentile all throughout school, as we were tested yearly through the ISTEP program... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States07/14/2021 09:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77298933 Australia07/14/2021 12:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic There isn't your logic and my logic. There's just logic. Just as there isn't my truth and your truth. Just truth. I'm not interested in your anecdotes, I'm interested in your arguments. Let's see if we can find some common ground. Can we agree that this argument is not logically sound? Something can't come from nothing, Therefor everything was created by an all knowing, all powerful intelligent entity As a great wizard of logic, surely you'd agree that this is not sound. Yes? |
| BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States07/14/2021 07:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic There isn't your logic and my logic. There's just logic. Just as there isn't my truth and your truth. Just truth. I'm not interested in your anecdotes, I'm interested in your arguments. Let's see if we can find some common ground. Can we agree that this argument is not logically sound? Something can't come from nothing, Therefor everything was created by an all knowing, all powerful intelligent entity As a great wizard of logic, surely you'd agree that this is not sound. Yes? If God were not outside this reality, which He created, your position may have merit...But He is and you don't... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia07/14/2021 11:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic There isn't your logic and my logic. There's just logic. Just as there isn't my truth and your truth. Just truth. I'm not interested in your anecdotes, I'm interested in your arguments. Let's see if we can find some common ground. Can we agree that this argument is not logically sound? Something can't come from nothing, Therefor everything was created by an all knowing, all powerful intelligent entity As a great wizard of logic, surely you'd agree that this is not sound. Yes? If God were not outside this reality, which He created, your position may have merit...But He is and you don't... What? The argument I just presented doesn't specify whether god is inside or outside reality. Making your response nonsensical. I'm talking about this argument right here: Premise: Something can't come from nothing Conclusion: Therefor everything was created by an all knowing, all powerful intelligent entity I asked if this argument is logically sound. It's a yes/no question. There is an objective answer. Are you saying yes? Because if so, that nun may have been pulling your leg. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 65493204 United Kingdom05/13/2023 09:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic READ OUR EBOOK OP... Quoting: Twinflame1111 65493204 “TIME LOOP” – Inter-dimensional Ebook – (Twinflame1111) – (23 pages) – PDF - We (my wife and I) are a special force of inter-dimensional operatives whose task is to protect the universe from evil forces trying to gain a foothold by disrupting the timeline. We strange energy beings are assigned to cases, when and where needed, and materialize on Earth as humans, each with specialist abilities to ascertain and then solve the problems. Our most-dangerous challenge, innocuous-seeming at first, was a broken down train whose time-line was repeating endlessly – and which turned out to be a major hazard, set by unknown forces, to trap my wife and I along with all mankind in a closed time-loop forever… Click below link. Then click “GET” to read/download [link to library.lol] TRUE STORY! TAKE CARE ALL! GOD BLESS ALL!  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 85806020  Canada05/13/2023 09:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Take it as you want, this is a bombshell in the scientific world. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79406070 Many will feel less inhibited to really start thinking now their great leader and champion has admitted he has done some new thinking. Say this: "Oh Most High God... I don't know if You exist. In fact I'm leaning on no. But if You do, then I want to know... I need to know. If You do exist Most High God, then show Yourself to me... so that I never doubt Your existence again". Good Luck.  |
