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What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered

 
OneAngryMom
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What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
I don't want to hijack another thread....so I thought I'd post on this one....

Senator Tom Coburn (Oklahoma) was interviewed on CNN this morning and was very telling......

who really owns Chrysler?....and they have 25billion in assets, and won't invest in their own company......

On May 14, 2007 DaimlerChrysler AG announced the sale of 80.1% of Chrysler Group to American private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management, L.P., although Daimler continues to hold a 19.9% stake. This was when the company took on its current name. The deal was finalized on August 3, 2007.

On August 6, 2007, after the announcement of the spin-off to Cerberus, the Chrysler LLC, or "The New Chrysler", unveiled a new company logo and launched its new website with a variation of the previously used Pentastar logo. Robert Nardelli also became Chairman and CEO of Chrysler under the ownership of Cerberus.

On October 23, 2008, Daimler announced that its stake in Chrysler had a book value of zero dollars after write offs and charges.

Who is Cerberus Capital management?
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
yet another rabbit hole:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Cerberus Capital Management, L.P. is one of the largest private equity investment firms in the United States. The firm is based in New York City, and run by 48-year-old financier Steve Feinberg. Former U.S. Vice President Dan Quayle has been a prominent Cerberus spokesperson and runs one of its international units.

History

Founded in 1992, Cerberus is named for the mythological three-headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades. While many of its peers have bought out companies in order to strip assets and sell on for a profit, Cerberus builds its reputation on identifying firms that are undervalued, and assisting in rejuvenating them by working with current management.[1] Feinberg has stated to his employees that while the Cerberus name seemed like a good idea at the time, he later regretted naming the company after the mythological dog.[1]

The company has been a very active acquirer of businesses over the past several years and now has sizable investments in automotive, sportswear, paper products, military services, real estate, energy, retail, glassmaking, transportation, and building products. In 2006, its holdings amounted to $24 billion.

On October 19, 2006, John W. Snow, President George W. Bush's second United States Secretary of the Treasury, was named chairman of Cerberus.

Although Cerberus owns 80% of now troubled Chrysler Corporation, it has refused to inject cash into Chrysler, as Sen. Bob Corker pointed out at a hearing about the economic needs of the American automobile industry on December 4, 2008. In response to questioning at a hearing before the House committee on December 5, 2008 by Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite, Chrysler President and CEO Robert Nardelli said that Cerberus' other fiduciary obligations to its other investors and investments prohibited it from injecting capital.


Notable acquisitions

* Pharmaceuticals - In December 2004, the company announced the acquisition of Bayer's plasma products business and renamed it Talecris Biotherapeutics.

* Paper products - The company acquired MeadWestvaco's paper business for $2.3B in 2005 and renamed it NewPage Corporation. Cerberus also purchased, from Georgia Pacific Corporation, its Distribution Division/Building Products and all of its associated real estate. It renamed this new company BlueLinx Holdings, based in Atlanta.

* Government Services (Military, Energy, and Food & Drug) - owns IAP Worldwide Services, which bought Johnson Controls' World Services division in February 2005, and Netco Government Services.

* Real Estate - Through investment affiliate Cerberus Real Estate, the company has been making direct equity, mezzanine, first mortgage, distressed and special situation investments in all asset types. It also controls Miami Beach.-based LNR Property, a large real estate development and investment firm through subsidiary Riley Property. Cerberus also controls Kyo-ya, a Japan based group of entities that owns several Starwood managed assets in California, Hawaii and Florida.

* Retail - Cerberus purchased 655 of the 2,500 Albertson's, Inc., grocery stores, forming Albertsons LLC of Boise, Idaho, in June 2006. They also own Mervyn's department stores, which was acquired from Target Corp. In June 2007, Cerberus acquired Torex Retail Plc., a retail solutions provider in troubled waters, for approximately 400 million US dollars.[2]

* Transportation - Acquired bankrupt ANC Rental, owner of the National and Alamo car rental chains, for $230 million in October 2003 and purchased DaimlerChrysler's 45% share of debis AerFinance, an aircraft leasing business, in May 2005. Complete acquisition of debis AirFinance (later renamed AerCap) was concluded in July 2005. Also acquired North American Bus Industries, Optima Bus Corporation, and Blue Bird Corp. in the bus manufacturing sector. Cerberus also owns bus companies Coach America and American Coach Lines, which were acquired from Stagecoach Group.

* Automotive - Peguform, GDX Automotive, and Chrysler.

* Financial Services - General Motors sold a 51% stake in its GMAC finance unit to an investor group led by Cerberus Capital Management in November 2006. GM expected to receive $14 billion over the next three years from the sale of General Motors Acceptance Corp. In December 2006, Cerberus acquired the Austrian bank BAWAG P.S.K. for a reported EUR3.2 billion. In August 2007, Cerberus announced that it was closing one of their mortgage companies, Aegis Mortgage.

* Firearms - Acquired Bushmaster Firearms, Inc., from Windham, Maine native Dick Dyke for an undisclosed sum in April 2006, and purchased Remington Arms in April 2007. Under Cerberus direction, Bushmaster Firearms acquired Cobb Manufacturing, a well-respected manufacturer of large-caliber tactical rifles in August 2007. Cerberus also announced the acquisition of DPMS Panther Arms in December 2007.[3][4] Remington Arms acquired Marlin Firearms in January 2008.[5][6]
* Entertainment - Acquired a group of seven television stations, Four Points Media Group, from CBS Corporation in 2007.[7][8]

* Other holdings of the investment group include Formica, Inc., and the Aozora Bank in Japan; and cable operator Galaxy Cable.

* In 2007 Cerberus took over Corvest a promotional products company based out of Largo, FL with arms based in Simi Vally, Ca & Thorfare, NJ.
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
[link to www.businessweek.com]

What's Bigger Than Cisco, Coke, Or McDonald's?
Steve Feinberg's Cerberus, a vast hedge fund that's snapping up companies -- lots of them
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
[link to www.prnewswire.com]

Cerberus Takes Over Majority Interest In Chrysler Group and Related Financial Services Business for $7.4 Billion From DaimlerChrysler

Let's see....

Cerberus buys Chrysler for 7.4 billion and the bail-out "loan" is for double that?

HOW DOES THIS WORK?
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
but they own a firearm company, too.....

wow

this is ugly.....any connection between this and the ammunition "shortage"?????????

[link to www.shootingwire.com]

December 14, 2007

DPMS Acquired By Cerberus Capital Management Affiliate

St. Clour, Minnesota, DPMS, a leading supplier of AR15 based rifles, parts and accessories announced today that its assets have been acquired by an affiliate of Cerberus Capital Management, L.P.

Randy Luth, DPMS founder and President, remarked, "We were looking for a partner that could enhance our expertise in operations and further develop our sales and marketing capabilities. Cerberus is a partner that can help us in those areas and provide the financial and operational resources required to expand our business. We look forward to working with them. After starting this business 21 years ago, I couldn't be more excited about our prospects for the future, both in terms of the growth we believe we can achieve and the level of satisfaction and value we can provide to our customers."
Evil Twin

12/11/2008 03:18 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
spock
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
Four Points Media Group LLC is a television station holding company founded by the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management in 2007 with its purchase of seven television stations previously owned by CBS Television Stations, a subsidiary of CBS Corporation.

Four Points Media Group took over the day-to-day operations of the stations via local marketing agreements on June 25. The acquisition of the stations was granted FCC approval on November 21, 2007 and closed on January 10, 2008. [1]

KUTV, the CBS affiliate in Salt Lake City, serves as the master-control hub facility for Four Points' stations. KEYE-TV in Austin, Texas, the other CBS affiliate owned by Four Points, is currently the only station not controlled by the KUTV hub facility.

Market Station ... Channel (DT) Current Affiliation
Salt Lake City KUTV 2 (34) CBS
St. George - KUSG 12 (9) RTN
Provo -
Ogden -
Orem

West Palm Beach WTVX 34 (50) The CW
Fort Pierce WTCN-CA 43 (50.3) MyNetworkTV
WWHB-CA 48 (50.2) Azteca América

Austin KEYE-TV 42 (43) CBS

Providence - WLWC 28 (22) The CW
New Bedford
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Aozora Bank

Aozora Bank is the successor of the Nippon Credit Bank, which was founded in 1957 under a special government trust banking license alongside the Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan, based on the assets of Bank of Joseon in Japan. In December 1998, NCB was brought under government control in order to deal with its extraordinary amount of bad debt left over from the crash of the Japanese asset price bubble in the early 1990s: at the time, the bank was approximately ¥270 billion in debt.

An investor group led by Softbank, Orix and Tokio Marine & Fire Insurance Co. purchased NCB in 2000 and renamed it "Aozora Bank" in 2001. As part of this deal, the government included a "defect warranty provision" to the effect that Aozora could demand within the next three years that the government purchase any claims which had fallen by twenty percent or more from value. Aozora applied this provision conservatively in order to write off ¥400 billion in bad debts owed by about 100 companies, in contrast to Shinsei Bank, the contemporaneous successor of the Long-Term Credit Bank, which wrote off nearly three times as much and was criticized in political circles for doing so.

Softbank initially planned to make Aozora an investment bank for internet-related companies. However, Softbank was unsuccessful in obtaining the cooperation of the Financial Services Agency, and sold its stake to Cerberus Capital Management in September 2003. Aozora launched operations as a retail bank on April 1, 2006, and opened its first new branch in Nihombashi on November 20.

Aozora Bank is listed as the No.1 unsecured creditor to Lehman Brothers with about $463 million USD in bank loans to the investment bank as it filled for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in Sept. 2008. By comparison, the second largest unsecured creditor is Mizuho Bank with $289 million, and third largest Citibank (Hong Kong branch) with $275 million.
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
To sum up:

Is anyone paying attention or does anyone see this?

Cerberus owns one of the big 3

and
Talecris Biotherapeutics

Georgia Pacific Corporation, its Distribution Division/Building Products and all of its associated real estate.

owns IAP Worldwide Services, which bought Johnson Controls' World Services

LNR Property, a large real estate development and investment firm through subsidiary Riley Property
Kyo-ya, a Japan based group of entities that owns several Starwood managed assets in California, Hawaii and Florida.

655 of the 2,500 Albertson's, Inc

Torex Retail Plc., a retail solutions provider in troubled waters, for approximately 400 million US dollars.

Acquired bankrupt ANC Rental, owner of the National and Alamo car rental chains

DaimlerChrysler's 45% share of debis AerFinance
Also acquired North American Bus Industries, Optima Bus Corporation, and Blue Bird Corp. in the bus manufacturing sector. Cerberus also owns bus companies Coach America and American Coach Lines, which were acquired from Stagecoach Group.

Peguform, GDX Automotive, and Chrysler

Cerberus acquired the Austrian bank BAWAG P.S.K.

Bushmaster Firearms, Inc.,

Remington Arms

Bushmaster Firearms acquired Cobb Manufacturing, a well-respected manufacturer of large-caliber tactical rifles

Remington Arms acquired Marlin Firearms

Acquired a group of seven television stations, Four Points Media Group, from CBS Corporation

Formica, Inc., and the Aozora Bank in Japan; and cable operator Galaxy Cable.

Aozora Bank is listed as the No.1 unsecured creditor to Lehman Brothers with about $463 million USD in bank loans to the investment bank as it filled for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in Sept. 2008. By comparison, the second largest unsecured creditor is Mizuho Bank with $289 million, and third largest Citibank (Hong Kong branch) with $275 million.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
Wow, Mom, great research. What a bunch of rats.


.
Avian

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
you have my attention...thanks Mom
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
- Frédéric Bastiat

food, water, ammo, weapons, battery back up solar, hand well pump, wood stove and 1 year of food...oh yeah PM's too...good luck
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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12/11/2008 05:24 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
President George W. Bush's second United States Secretary of the Treasury, John W Snow:

deeper yet

During Ronald Reagan's campaign for the presidency in 1980, Snow was a member of Governor Reagan's four-man advisory group on regulatory policy. Following his election victory, President-Elect Reagan named Snow as Vice Chairman of his Transportation Transition Team.

Snow would go on to serve on the White House Conference for a Drug Free America; the Services Policy Advisory Committee of the U.S. Trade Representative; as Co-Chair of the National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement; the National Commission on Intermodal Transportation; the National Commission on Economic Growth and Tax Reform; as a Trustee of the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts; and as a Member of the Richmond City School Board.

He was the co-chairman of the Conference Board's Blue-Ribbon Commission on Public Trust and Private Enterprise. He also served as co-chairman of the National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement in 1992 that made recommendations following the savings and loan crisis.

From 1994 through 1996, he was Chairman of the Business Roundtable, a business policy group of 250 chief executive officers of the nation's largest companies, and played a major role in supporting passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Snow was nominated as Secretary of the Treasury by President George W. Bush on January 13, 2003 and unanimously confirmed by the US Senate.

In May 2004, it was revealed that Snow's brokers had bought $10 million of debt issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac without his knowledge in February 2003. When Snow found out, he divested the debt holdings. A Treasury ethics lawyer has found that the holdings did not represent a conflict of interest but had the potential to do so in the future.

On May 26, 2006 Snow announced that he would resign effective July 3. He said the White House would make an official statement the following week. On May 30, it was formally announced that Snow would leave this position. On this same day, it was announced that President George W. Bush had nominated Henry Paulson, CEO of Goldman Sachs, to replace Snow.
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
anybody pissed off yet?
lamchop

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12/11/2008 05:28 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
You are so good, now please tell me why this isn't pinned?

This is really, really good stuff!!!

Great Job!
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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12/11/2008 05:31 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
You are so good, now please tell me why this isn't pinned?

This is really, really good stuff!!!

Great Job!
 Quoting: lamchop



I was wondering that, too.....but the mods are in charge of the pins....not me.....

I'm just sharing some really simple research. This started this morning when I watched an interview on CNN and the Senator from Oklahoma said that Chrysler was owned by Cerberus.....and I didn't know who/what that was.....

I THINK that the auto workers should know this stuff and if I was one of them.....I'D BE PISSED!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
three headed devil dog. is this what barry soetoro bought for his kids for the white house pet?
lamchop

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
So, send the research to The Star Magazine "DRUDGE" and see if it passes the (government shrill) test? Now that would be interesting huh....or send everything to all the networks including NPR...why not? See how long it takes to pick it up, especially Maria and Santelli and big JOE. A GLP test.
Enigma

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12/11/2008 05:50 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
and like all the other hedge funds... they are going belly up...

BANKRUPT!
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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12/11/2008 05:57 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
So, send the research to The Star Magazine "DRUDGE" and see if it passes the (government shrill) test? Now that would be interesting huh....or send everything to all the networks including NPR...why not? See how long it takes to pick it up, especially Maria and Santelli and big JOE. A GLP test.
 Quoting: lamchop



be my guest

all this stuff is easy with search engines. I have a funny hunch they all know already.....and from the looks of the responses here.....so did most everyone else [shruggs shoulders]

I guess I spend too much time sewing to find the time to dig a bit.

I'm most surprised at the whole part about Cerberus owing the very gun companies that control the ammunition that is allegedly "out of supply".......on THIS site....I figured that'd raise a few eyebrows.....or ruffle a few feathers.
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
more on John Snow:

With the election of Jimmy Carter, Snow departed public life in 1977. During his transition period out of public life, in Spring 1977, he served as a Visiting Professor of Economics at the University of Virginia and as a Visiting Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. In addition, he was named a Distinguished Fellow at the Yale School of Management from 1978 until 1980.

The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research (AEI) is a conservative think tank, founded in 1943. According to the institute its mission is "to defend the principles and improve the institutions of American freedom and democratic capitalism limited government, private enterprise, individual liberty and responsibility, vigilant and effective defense and foreign policies, political accountability, and open debate." AEI is an independent, non-profit organization. It is supported primarily by grants and contributions from foundations, corporations, and individuals. It is located in Washington, D.C.

AEI has emerged as one of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy. More than twenty AEI alumni and current visiting scholars and fellows have served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions. Former United States Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz is a visiting scholar, and Lynne Cheney, wife of Vice President Dick Cheney and former chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities, is a senior fellow.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2008 06:09 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
To sum up:

Is anyone paying attention or does anyone see this?

Cerberus owns one of the big 3

 Quoting: OneAngryMom



So why are you beating up Cerberus? They own a majority stake, but Daimler still has a position. Cerberus is a Capital Investment Group and it's always been felt amongst Chrysler employees that it would be on the block for any reason. Hence, no bailout from the partial owner. Cerberus, if they need to, will sell off their stake piece by piece.
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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12/11/2008 06:40 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
To sum up:

Is anyone paying attention or does anyone see this?

Cerberus owns one of the big 3




So why are you beating up Cerberus? They own a majority stake, but Daimler still has a position. Cerberus is a Capital Investment Group and it's always been felt amongst Chrysler employees that it would be on the block for any reason. Hence, no bailout from the partial owner. Cerberus, if they need to, will sell off their stake piece by piece.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 497888



One...I'm beating up on no one. I understand the investment group parameters.

Two...I've found it more than interesting the kind of control this group has and who its affiliates are and the kinds of political connections they have.

Three...it's curious to me that they have invested into a Japanese bank that was underwritten basically by Lehman Bros who needed a bail out that was granted by Paulson (basically) who followed in the footsteps of Snow who sat on the board of the American Enterprise Institute with Lynne Cheney whose husband is of course the Vice President, and the Business Roundtable.

Four...Cerberus BOUGHT Chrysler for HALF of what they're asking for the bail-out. They have reported to have 24billion in assets but won't invest back into the very company they are asking the GOVERNMENT to bail out!

Daimler has 19% ownership interest....and I don't even understand what you're trying to say about the employees.

I'm just a nobody who connected a few dots. Cerberus certainly will do what it wants as their diversity indicates........why should I care if they own gun manufacturers as well as bus companies, car rental companies, other investment companies and have close affiliations with those who are also connected with things like NAFTA?
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12/11/2008 06:47 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
The rabbit hole is soooo deep these days. Great research OP. Truly, if Cerberus won't invest in its own company (Chrysler) why should the taxpayer.

Steve Fineberg ... who would have thunk it?
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2008 06:48 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
...and for sure this should be pinned.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2008 06:55 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
Holy crap !!! Still no pin for this info.

Mods are asleep at the wheel again.
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12/11/2008 07:10 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
bump
MercurialStorm

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12/11/2008 07:14 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
Very good thread .. should be pinned.

I just wonder though ... the articles about people buyin guns in massive numbers and the people who are afraid of Obama buying up all the ammo sort of make sense to me as a reason for the ammo shortage because it's as simple as supply exceeding demand.

People are locking and loading like never before and there just isn't a supply to keep up with it.

Nothing nefarious there imo
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12/11/2008 07:18 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
hf
lamchop

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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
If this thread is still going next week I will help to forward information, still taking finals until next week......(and I am old not young)....LOL
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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12/11/2008 08:08 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
Very good thread .. should be pinned.

I just wonder though ... the articles about people buyin guns in massive numbers and the people who are afraid of Obama buying up all the ammo sort of make sense to me as a reason for the ammo shortage because it's as simple as supply exceeding demand.

People are locking and loading like never before and there just isn't a supply to keep up with it.

Nothing nefarious there imo
 Quoting: MercurialStorm



or
I don't suppose that the "ammo shortage" is made up entirely........nnnaaaaaa.......these good people wouldn't do such a thing.

and this premise would suggest that if the "Bush Admin" is pulling all these plans together then it's all okay....gotta fear Obama and his admin......

doesn't make sense to me.
OneAngryMom  (OP)

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12/11/2008 11:46 PM
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Re: What you don't know about the auto-bailout proposal/Cerberus owns Chrysler...and gun co's and a Japaneese bank that LEHMAN BROS covered
once more....then I'm off to sleep





GLP