| Users Online Now: 2,080 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 1,000,989 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,341,158 | Threads Today: 331 | Posts Today: 5,274 |
| 11:01 AM | ||
| Users Online Now: 2,080 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 1,000,989 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,341,158 | Threads Today: 331 | Posts Today: 5,274 |
| 11:01 AM | ||
WHEN WILL THE RAPTURE BE - And the lies of the Mormon church from page 11. | |
SnakeAirlines  User ID: 761339  United States09/15/2009 03:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There's some killer stuff in Romans. Are you aware that there are people God has deliberately kept in unbelief, so that when the time of reckoning comes, he can have mercy on them? Quoting: 9teen.47™Oh yeah? Where is the quote, or are we just supposed to take your word for it? =========== Wow, you're genuinely concerned that I'm just making this stuff up? Yikes. Romans chapter 11. ============  Hey 763685,PROVE IT - PROVE IT - PROVE IT _ PROVE IT - PROVE IT - PROVE IT - PROVE IT - PROVE IT You lot are (quite correctly) real quick off the draw should I not provide a quote. So turn about is fair play. LIARS DON'T LIKE PROVIDING PROOF - PROVE IT - LIARS DON'T LIKE PROVIDING PROOF - PROVE IT It's in the post you quoted... But as I see you've finally tipped over the edge into the abyss, I don't expect you to actually see it...   "Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail" deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM |
| MuadDib987 User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 03:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | According to you, everyone is going to be saved? Then why does God even bother judging? Let's sin as much as we want to, we're all going to be saved anyway. I think I want to steal something today. Zero point in stopping sin. Quoting: GoddrunkThe judgment is purification. God's judgments all have a beneficial intent - he doesn't punish just to get even. He plainly told us to love our enemies. . .is he really going to turn around and torture *His* enemies for all eternity? We can undergo judgment today, the way of the cross (denying ourself and submitting to a living "death", per Romans 12) or postpone the inevitable until the Father paints us into a corner through the inescapable, unquenchable fire of circumstances. Scripture defines eternal life in John 17: "This is life eternal, that they might know you the only God and Jesus whom you've sent". It doesn't say a thing about *where* one ends up; it's just about knowing God. Is belief in the judgment of God really the only thing that's keeping you from relishing sin? You don't enjoy behaving yourself, or walking with God just becase he's who he is? This is the whole point of God "writing his commandments upon our heart", so that we're self-governed by love and don't have to be prodded to obedience by external boundaries. If eternal hellfire is real, why don't we have record of God informing Adam and Eve of it? You would think that if God really loved them, and loves truth, and wants to keep people from such a horrible fate, he would have warned them, right? But not one word. All they got was "In the day that you eat thereof, you will surely die". How about Cain, world's first murderer, who slew his own brother in jealousy, no less? Wouldn't God's eternal word have recorded him issuing the judgment of endless fire on this monster, if it were indeed true? But again, not a word about. In fact, God even relents a little when Cain pleads that his punishment of wandering the earth is too harsh to bear, and he marks him so that he doesn't become a target of revenge. How about the laws of Moses? Chapter after chapter, listing detailed consequences of sin and disobedience, including defeat, captivity, illness, famine, blight, etc. - all things which pertain to life on earth. Not one word about unending punishment in hell. If God took the time to present his chosen people with clear-cut information about what he expects of them, and the ramifications of failing to live up to it, and if hell is real, wouldn't he have mentioned it? Or did God somehow think warning them of crop failure was more important? These are the only written records God's people had for thousands of years. Did our God of Truth and Love somehow allow sinners for ages and ages to stumble into the horrors of unceasing hellfire without warning any of them that such a grisly fate was a serious possibility? Or. . .is hell an ancient myth that found its way into the institutional church and remains rooted to this day, like a toxic weed that taints the streams of living water? |
| MagiChristmas User ID: 771865 United States09/15/2009 03:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Question = What is the "Rapture"? ...Jesus says six times in John chapter 4 alone, that He will raise the dead on the last day..not the last day minus 7 years or even 3 1/2 years. 1 Cor. 15:5 is a proof verse of this. Best to memorize Psalm 91 ..which is also a proof verse for the post tribulation return of Jesus Christ. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 734365The pre-trib rapture delusion is the primary money machine in organized religion. Hireling "teachers" have Christians giving away their birthright as priests and kings to a carnal group of Christ deniers... Answer = This question deals with a unique Protestant belief which is being disputed by various factions today. Because the concept of a "rapture" is not universally accepted among Christians and is not understood by many, it is appropriate to start by first defining the term. Origin of the term and concept The word rapture is said to come from a Latin translation of the Greek word harpazo which is found in 1 _Thess. 4:17. Harpazo is translated in English as "caught up." The term rapture as it is used by orthodox Protestants is based on a belief that, when Christ comes, he will instantly catch up all living believers to meet him in the air and translate them into immortal bodies without experiencing physical death. It is further believed that those who are caught up will be miraculously taken away from tribulations to be with the Lord in heaven. LDS scripture presents a different picture especially on this last point. Source and scriptural support for Protestant belief Protestant belief in the rapture is based on Matt. 24:31,39-42; 1 _Cor. 15:51-54; and 1 _Thess. 4:13-18; 1 _Thess. 5:9-10. Although other scriptures might also be applied to this event, their relationship is often questioned even among Protestants. There is also disagreement regarding the rapture's timing in relation to the tribulation period spoken of in Matt. 24:21,29; Mark 13:24; Luke 21:9-26, and Rev. 7:14. According to orthodox Protestant eschatology, the tribulation period will last seven years (two periods of 3 1/2 years; see Dan. 7:25; Dan. 12:7,11; Matt. 24:21-22; Rev. 11:2-3; Rev. 12:6,14; Rev. 13:5). Dan. 9:27 is usually cited in support of this conclusion but Rev. 2:10 provides another figure (10 days or years). Theories on timing of the Rapture in Protestant theology Three or four theories have been suggested concerning the timing of the rapture. Those who hold that believers will be caught up before the tribulation period, to be with Christ in heaven and to return with him at the end of this period, are called "pre-tribulationists." Those who believe that the church will go through the tribulation and be caught up at the end of this period are called "post-tribulationists." Those who believe that the church will go through half of the tribulation period (three and one-half years) before being caught up are referred to as "mid-tribulationists." If this were not enough, there is also a fourth interpretation commonly called the "partial rapture view" which holds that only some believers will be taken up at one or more points during the tribulation period. All of these theories are of recent origin having been developed in the last two hundred years. Modern revelation received through the Prophet Joseph Smith contains answers to these and other similar questions and would settle these arguments if accepted; unfortunately, many are "ever learning and [yet] never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 _Tim. 3:7). Although the Bible has clearly not been sufficient to settle this problem, it does provide a great deal of information on this subject. LDS view: Biblical and modern revelation The Gospels The gospels alone provide more information than can be considered in a brief discussion on this subject. To keep this answer short, we will only consider the timing of Christ's coming and the gathering of believers in relation to the tribulation period. Matthew tells us that: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened... And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect..." (Matt. 24:29-31). Mark likewise tells us: after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened... And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost parts of the earth..." (Mark 13:24,26-27). Although Luke does not use the word tribulation, he describes these events in the same order (see Luke 21:25-27). In each case, the second coming follows the tribulation and the gathering of the elect follows his coming. Not only is there no mention of Christ's appearance before or during this tribulation period, but believers are warned by all three writers that false Christs will appear to deceive many (Matt. 24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8). None of these accounts hints at multiple returns of the Savior. Other New Testament scriptures The remainder of the New Testament reinforces the concept that the saints will not be spared tribulations. Paul told the Thessalonian saints, ."..when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation" (1 Thessalonians:3). In a second epistle he stated, "we ourselves glory in... your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure" (2 _Thess. 1:4). He taught other saints that, "we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience" (Rom. 5:3) and "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22). Matthew quotes Christ as saying that except the "great tribulation" were "shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Matt. 24:21-22). This is also the theme of the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matt. 13:24-30,36-52). John the Revelator also makes it clear that the saints will pass through the tribulation period prior to Christ's coming. In Rev. 7:13-14 an elder asked John, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And [John] said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, These are they which came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." John goes on to speak in chapter 13 of the period in which the beast would reign (42 months or 3 1/2 years - Rev. 13:5). During this period we are told that, "it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them" (Rev. 13:7). Directly following this, Christ comes with his elect to Mount Zion (Rev. 14:1) and in the clouds to execute judgment (Rev. 14:15-16). Note that in chapters 14 through 19 the Lord executes judgment. Chapter 15 speaks of the exaltation of the just who "had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name" (Rev. 15:2; compare Rev. 13:7,15-17). Chapters 16 through 19 detail the "wrath of God" poured out upon the wicked (Rev. 16:1) and at the end of chapter 19 the beast is defeated by Christ (Rev. 19:20-21). We must remember the beast's reign was previously identified as 42 months or three and one-half years (Rev. 13:5), and this seems to be the last half of the tribulation period. This is therefore further confirmation that these chapters describe events at the end of the tribulation. Compare also Dan. 7:25; Dan. 12:7; Zech. 13:8-9; Mal. 3:2,5-6; Mal. 4:1-3; Rev. 20:1-7 with 1 _Thess. 4:16; and Rev. 12:14 with Rev. 12:17 and Rev. 13:5. Joseph Smith and modern revelation Joseph Smith's inspired revision of Matthew 24 informs us that the great tribulation will be "on the Jews and the inhabitants of Jerusalem" (Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:18) and "after the tribulation of those days... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven... and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect" (Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:36-37). D&C 29:8 tells us that the "tribulation and desolation shall be upon the wicked," but Joseph Smith added that, "it is a false idea that the Saints will escape all judgment whilst the wicked suffer; for all flesh is subject to suffer, and the righteous shall hardly escape [D&C 63:34], still many of the Saints will escape..."[2] Doctrine and Covenants section 63 provides us with additional insight regarding these events and also explains the LDS belief concerning the translation of believers at the coming of Christ. It states that, the saints also shall hardly escape; nevertheless, I, the Lord, am with them, and will come down in heaven from the presence of the Father and consume the wicked with unquenchable fire... he that liveth when the Lord shall come, and hath kept the faith, blessed is he; nevertheless, it is appointed to him to die at the age of a man [100 years - Is. 66:20]. Wherefore, children shall grow up until they become old; old men shall die; but they shall not sleep in the dust, but they shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye" (D&C 63:34,50-51). It also states that "in the day of the coming of the Son of Man... cometh an entire separation of the righteous and the wicked" (D&C 63:53-54)—not before! Again in D&C section 88 the Lord warns, "prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come; that their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked both in this world and in the world to come" (D&C 88:84-85). "And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him. And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—They are Christ's, the first fruits [of the resurrection], and they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him... (D&C 88:96-98). Thus begins the resurrection of the just and the millennial reign of Christ on the earth (see D&C 88:99-101; Rev. 20:4-6). Those who are caught up are not taken into heaven but reign "with Christ a thousand years" on the earth (Rev. 5:10; Rev. 20:4-6; see also Teachings, p. 318).[3] Thereafter, "they shall reign for ever and ever" with him (Rev. 22:4-5). Conclusion Modern revelation makes it clear that the saints will remain on the earth through the tribulation period until Christ's coming and those who are old or in the grave shall be changed to a resurrected state at that time. Younger saints will grow old and be changed in an instant at one hundred years of age (Is. 66:20; D&C 101:30-31) to inherit a glorious resurrection with God and Christ. - [link to 74.125.155.132] This post WAS added to my Log of Direct Links: Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience. MC |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 771889 United States09/15/2009 04:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| SnakeAirlines User ID: 761339 United States09/15/2009 04:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | why does pedo teen only post soft porn on the chemtrail threads? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 771889Where are the steaming hot 12 year old asian babes he plasters in those threads? Why no child porn here? Good question... Maybe she has a Chick-Tract that will explain it to us... "Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail" deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM |
| 9teen.47™ (OP) User ID: 771800  United Kingdom09/15/2009 05:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It's in the post you quoted... Quoting: SnakeAirlines:z3: I'm quite aware of that. Am I now supposed to do his work for him. He made the claim so he can post it properly. Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God. Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate [woman]. STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobacco is worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 05:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 343017  Sweden09/15/2009 05:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| MagiChristmas User ID: 771914 United States09/15/2009 05:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There's some killer stuff in Romans. Are you aware that there are people God has deliberately kept in unbelief, so that when the time of reckoning comes, he can have mercy on them? Quoting: 9teen.47™Oh yeah? Where is the quote, or are we just supposed to take your word for it? Wow, you're genuinely concerned that I'm just making this stuff up? Yikes. Romans chapter 11. Hey 763685,PROVE IT - PROVE IT - PROVE IT _ PROVE IT - PROVE IT - PROVE IT - PROVE IT - PROVE IT You lot are (quite correctly) real quick off the draw should I not provide a quote. So turn about is fair play. LIARS DON'T LIKE PROVIDING PROOF - PROVE IT - LIARS DON'T LIKE PROVIDING PROOF - PROVE IT Nice Bear.  Please answer to the best of your grizzly ability. How are these two verses in the bible related? John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." Matthew 13:43 "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." Romans 11 may or may not help. I think i'll go check it out. MC |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 771493  Israel09/15/2009 05:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I KNOW when the rapture will be: Quoting: Lotus FeetLuke 12:40 ""You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect." Why? Luke 12:39 ""But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into." Jesus has to come when we least expect Him, other wise, the owner of this "house" would watch and stop Him from robbing Him. The Son of Man that Jesus spoke of is not himself but the one that he promised his Father would send. Many biblical scholars are aware that when Jesus was talking about the Son of Man he was not talking about himself. When will Christians get the picture? Lotus We were kind of wondering when YOU would get the picture. But your new age beliefs have blinded you to bible truth. If you do not reconcider, you will be given over to the deception you cling to now. You will then be more deeply decieved. Romans 1 |
| rlc3764 User ID: 660310  Philippines09/15/2009 06:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Question = What is the "Rapture"? Quoting: MagiChristmas...Jesus says six times in John chapter 4 alone, that He will raise the dead on the last day..not the last day minus 7 years or even 3 1/2 years. 1 Cor. 15:5 is a proof verse of this. Best to memorize Psalm 91 ..which is also a proof verse for the post tribulation return of Jesus Christ. The pre-trib rapture delusion is the primary money machine in organized religion. Hireling "teachers" have Christians giving away their birthright as priests and kings to a carnal group of Christ deniers... Answer = This question deals with a unique Protestant belief which is being disputed by various factions today. Because the concept of a "rapture" is not universally accepted among Christians and is not understood by many, it is appropriate to start by first defining the term. Origin of the term and concept The word rapture is said to come from a Latin translation of the Greek word harpazo which is found in 1 _Thess. 4:17. Harpazo is translated in English as "caught up." The term rapture as it is used by orthodox Protestants is based on a belief that, when Christ comes, he will instantly catch up all living believers to meet him in the air and translate them into immortal bodies without experiencing physical death. It is further believed that those who are caught up will be miraculously taken away from tribulations to be with the Lord in heaven. LDS scripture presents a different picture especially on this last point. Source and scriptural support for Protestant belief Protestant belief in the rapture is based on Matt. 24:31,39-42; 1 _Cor. 15:51-54; and 1 _Thess. 4:13-18; 1 _Thess. 5:9-10. Although other scriptures might also be applied to this event, their relationship is often questioned even among Protestants. There is also disagreement regarding the rapture's timing in relation to the tribulation period spoken of in Matt. 24:21,29; Mark 13:24; Luke 21:9-26, and Rev. 7:14. According to orthodox Protestant eschatology, the tribulation period will last seven years (two periods of 3 1/2 years; see Dan. 7:25; Dan. 12:7,11; Matt. 24:21-22; Rev. 11:2-3; Rev. 12:6,14; Rev. 13:5). Dan. 9:27 is usually cited in support of this conclusion but Rev. 2:10 provides another figure (10 days or years). Theories on timing of the Rapture in Protestant theology Three or four theories have been suggested concerning the timing of the rapture. Those who hold that believers will be caught up before the tribulation period, to be with Christ in heaven and to return with him at the end of this period, are called "pre-tribulationists." Those who believe that the church will go through the tribulation and be caught up at the end of this period are called "post-tribulationists." Those who believe that the church will go through half of the tribulation period (three and one-half years) before being caught up are referred to as "mid-tribulationists." If this were not enough, there is also a fourth interpretation commonly called the "partial rapture view" which holds that only some believers will be taken up at one or more points during the tribulation period. All of these theories are of recent origin having been developed in the last two hundred years. Modern revelation received through the Prophet Joseph Smith contains answers to these and other similar questions and would settle these arguments if accepted; unfortunately, many are "ever learning and [yet] never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 _Tim. 3:7). Although the Bible has clearly not been sufficient to settle this problem, it does provide a great deal of information on this subject. LDS view: Biblical and modern revelation The Gospels The gospels alone provide more information than can be considered in a brief discussion on this subject. To keep this answer short, we will only consider the timing of Christ's coming and the gathering of believers in relation to the tribulation period. Matthew tells us that: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened... And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect..." (Matt. 24:29-31). Mark likewise tells us: after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened... And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost parts of the earth..." (Mark 13:24,26-27). Although Luke does not use the word tribulation, he describes these events in the same order (see Luke 21:25-27). In each case, the second coming follows the tribulation and the gathering of the elect follows his coming. Not only is there no mention of Christ's appearance before or during this tribulation period, but believers are warned by all three writers that false Christs will appear to deceive many (Matt. 24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8). None of these accounts hints at multiple returns of the Savior. Other New Testament scriptures The remainder of the New Testament reinforces the concept that the saints will not be spared tribulations. Paul told the Thessalonian saints, ."..when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation" (1 Thessalonians:3). In a second epistle he stated, "we ourselves glory in... your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure" (2 _Thess. 1:4). He taught other saints that, "we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience" (Rom. 5:3) and "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22). Matthew quotes Christ as saying that except the "great tribulation" were "shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Matt. 24:21-22). This is also the theme of the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matt. 13:24-30,36-52). John the Revelator also makes it clear that the saints will pass through the tribulation period prior to Christ's coming. In Rev. 7:13-14 an elder asked John, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And [John] said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, These are they which came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." John goes on to speak in chapter 13 of the period in which the beast would reign (42 months or 3 1/2 years - Rev. 13:5). During this period we are told that, "it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them" (Rev. 13:7). Directly following this, Christ comes with his elect to Mount Zion (Rev. 14:1) and in the clouds to execute judgment (Rev. 14:15-16). Note that in chapters 14 through 19 the Lord executes judgment. Chapter 15 speaks of the exaltation of the just who "had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name" (Rev. 15:2; compare Rev. 13:7,15-17). Chapters 16 through 19 detail the "wrath of God" poured out upon the wicked (Rev. 16:1) and at the end of chapter 19 the beast is defeated by Christ (Rev. 19:20-21). We must remember the beast's reign was previously identified as 42 months or three and one-half years (Rev. 13:5), and this seems to be the last half of the tribulation period. This is therefore further confirmation that these chapters describe events at the end of the tribulation. Compare also Dan. 7:25; Dan. 12:7; Zech. 13:8-9; Mal. 3:2,5-6; Mal. 4:1-3; Rev. 20:1-7 with 1 _Thess. 4:16; and Rev. 12:14 with Rev. 12:17 and Rev. 13:5. Joseph Smith and modern revelation Joseph Smith's inspired revision of Matthew 24 informs us that the great tribulation will be "on the Jews and the inhabitants of Jerusalem" (Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:18) and "after the tribulation of those days... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven... and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect" (Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:36-37). D&C 29:8 tells us that the "tribulation and desolation shall be upon the wicked," but Joseph Smith added that, "it is a false idea that the Saints will escape all judgment whilst the wicked suffer; for all flesh is subject to suffer, and the righteous shall hardly escape [D&C 63:34], still many of the Saints will escape..."[2] Doctrine and Covenants section 63 provides us with additional insight regarding these events and also explains the LDS belief concerning the translation of believers at the coming of Christ. It states that, the saints also shall hardly escape; nevertheless, I, the Lord, am with them, and will come down in heaven from the presence of the Father and consume the wicked with unquenchable fire... he that liveth when the Lord shall come, and hath kept the faith, blessed is he; nevertheless, it is appointed to him to die at the age of a man [100 years - Is. 66:20]. Wherefore, children shall grow up until they become old; old men shall die; but they shall not sleep in the dust, but they shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye" (D&C 63:34,50-51). It also states that "in the day of the coming of the Son of Man... cometh an entire separation of the righteous and the wicked" (D&C 63:53-54)—not before! Again in D&C section 88 the Lord warns, "prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come; that their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked both in this world and in the world to come" (D&C 88:84-85). "And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him. And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—They are Christ's, the first fruits [of the resurrection], and they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him... (D&C 88:96-98). Thus begins the resurrection of the just and the millennial reign of Christ on the earth (see D&C 88:99-101; Rev. 20:4-6). Those who are caught up are not taken into heaven but reign "with Christ a thousand years" on the earth (Rev. 5:10; Rev. 20:4-6; see also Teachings, p. 318).[3] Thereafter, "they shall reign for ever and ever" with him (Rev. 22:4-5). Conclusion Modern revelation makes it clear that the saints will remain on the earth through the tribulation period until Christ's coming and those who are old or in the grave shall be changed to a resurrected state at that time. Younger saints will grow old and be changed in an instant at one hundred years of age (Is. 66:20; D&C 101:30-31) to inherit a glorious resurrection with God and Christ. - [link to 74.125.155.132] This post WAS added to my Log of Direct Links: Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience. MC Highly debatable subject, but to others it gives them hope and freedom from what they feel is an oppressed life. Rapture? Mind or Body? the body vibrates in 3D frequency and cannot withstand increased frequency, unless of course one has become a master of the body. The mind? we can take it anywhere provided we have developed the awareness, that we are more than just bodies but light beings with superconsciousness. An infinite loving Father/Mother God would send his/her creation or so called children to hell damnation and perdition? Improbable, why create us in the first place. We set the conditions for our own heaven or hell- we are the co-creators.Don't blame God, He created all of eternity, so we can play in this cosmic drama, and uncreate the mess we make ourselves. Infinite consciousness simply IS, no polarity, no emotions, no judgements. Infinite intelligence is the ongoingness of life. If you look at the heavens( as our scientists have observed) new stars are being born, as one star collapses and burns out more are being born.There is a never ending creation happening before our eyes. Yes, infinite love is for all of God's creation as lovestar puts it " even to the least of the kingdom". We need shadows/darkness to understand and appreciate the light. All plays a role in the kingdom of God. |
| MuadDib987 User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 07:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Let's keep going with this Hell business. . . We might want to ask ourselves: Why he didn't Jesus warn the woman taken in the act of adultery about hell? Or the woman he met at the well? Both were apparently in sin, right? I assume we can all imagine how the average Joe Hardcorechurchgoer would likely confront these girls? Why did Jesus *forgive* the chick taken in adultery instead of preaching at her about hellfire? "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more" he says. Why would he bother discussing *worship* with the questionable woman at the well? If eternal hellfire is as real as we seem to think, why didn't Jesus seize these tailor-made opportunities to elaborate upon it for these persons right in front of him who most likely would be in immediate danger of going there? These are the kinds questions we should probably consider if we're serious about knowing God. |
| Goddrunk User ID: 762778 United States09/15/2009 08:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Maud, did you even watch the videos I posted? Last Edited by Aenon on 09/15/2009 08:06 PM "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
| Goddrunk User ID: 762778 United States09/15/2009 08:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Muad, did you even watch the videos I posted? Quoting: GoddrunkSorry, Muad, but your argument has holes. Last Edited by Aenon on 09/15/2009 08:07 PM "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 08:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 08:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Goddrunk User ID: 762778 United States09/15/2009 08:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Maud, did you even watch the videos I posted? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 766086Hell no. I don't typically watch videos. Then I guess we're done. Hell is real and eternal, and God has proven it to many people. "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 08:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Maud, did you even watch the videos I posted? Quoting: GoddrunkHell no. I don't typically watch videos. Then I guess we're done. Hell is real and eternal, and God has proven it to many people. Can you take second before "wiping the dust off yer feet" to show me my holes? =D |
| Goddrunk User ID: 762778 United States09/15/2009 08:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Maud, did you even watch the videos I posted? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 766086Hell no. I don't typically watch videos. Then I guess we're done. Hell is real and eternal, and God has proven it to many people. Can you take second before "wiping the dust off yer feet" to show me my holes? =D Why should I? "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 08:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Maud, did you even watch the videos I posted? Quoting: GoddrunkHell no. I don't typically watch videos. Then I guess we're done. Hell is real and eternal, and God has proven it to many people. Can you take second before "wiping the dust off yer feet" to show me my holes? =D Why should I? Perhaps for no other sake than the promotion of truth? So. . .you have the ability to share truth and correct my allegedly serious errors, but you need to be talked into doing so? That's classic. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 772035 United States09/15/2009 08:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Goddrunk User ID: 762778 United States09/15/2009 08:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Maud, did you even watch the videos I posted? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 766086Hell no. I don't typically watch videos. Then I guess we're done. Hell is real and eternal, and God has proven it to many people. Can you take second before "wiping the dust off yer feet" to show me my holes? =D Why should I? Perhaps for no other sake than the promotion of truth? So. . .you have the ability to share truth and correct my allegedly serious errors, but you need to be talked into doing so? That's classic. Whatever. Think what you like. "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
| Amish User ID: 772038 United States09/15/2009 08:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Hell is real and eternal, and God has proven it to many people. Quoting: GoddrunkHellfire is going to be real, at the end. It will last until they burn up, each according to their evil works. This punishment is eternal, but God does not torture with eternal punishing. The goats and sheep, wheat and tares, grow together until the end. It is what the Bible says cover to cover in a cosistant manner. Eternal immortal soul in hell comes from Rome, not the Bible. Jesus tells us exactly this ... Jesus tells a parable to draw a picture of what awaits the wicked. Matthew 13:24-30 The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said to him, Sir, did not you sow good seed in your field? from where then has it tares? He said to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Will you then that we go and gather them up? But he said, No; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. This parabel Jesus explains in specific detail, giving the parable, then explaining it. 36-43 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came to him, saying, Declare to us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said to them, He that sows the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who has ears to hear, let him hear. Notice "burned in the fire," "bind them in bundles to burn them," "gathered and burned in fire," "cast into fire." When? "So shall it be in the end of this world," "the harvest is the end of the world." Ps.37:10,20 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be:..But the wicked shall perish,...they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. Mat.10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. When is Hell again? Rev.20:5-9 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished....And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, .....and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Each judged according to their works. Rev.2:19,23 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.....and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. The wages of sin is death (Ro.6:23), not eternal torment. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 08:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When? "So shall it be in the end of this world," Quoting: Amish"Age", not "world". The Greek word there is aion, which means an indefinite period of time. Why the cronies of King Jim translated it "world" half of the time is a mystery, but why we christians blindly accept errant translations that skew our doctrines is an even bigger enigma. |
| Amish User ID: 772038 United States09/15/2009 08:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When? "So shall it be in the end of this world," Quoting: Anonymous Coward 766086___ "Age", not "world". The Greek word there is aion, which means an indefinite period of time. Why the cronies of King Jim translated it "world" half of the time is a mystery, but why we christians blindly accept errant translations that skew our doctrines is an even bigger enigma. This world ends at the end of this age, when a new earth is created. KJV has no errors. You have been following the "cronies." [link to kingjamesbibleerrorsrefuted.blogspot.com] End of the age is found nowhere in scripture but is a new age translation. The KJV followed the Geneva that has the same translation, minus the notes. They are the only English Bibles who strictly use the Textus Receptus. Last Edited by Klink on 09/15/2009 09:03 PM |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 09:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When? "So shall it be in the end of this world," Quoting: Amish___ "Age", not "world". The Greek word there is aion, which means an indefinite period of time. Why the cronies of King Jim translated it "world" half of the time is a mystery, but why we christians blindly accept errant translations that skew our doctrines is an even bigger enigma. This world ends at the end of this age, when a new earth is created. KJV has no errors. You have been following the "cronies." End of the age is found nowhere in scripture but is a new age translation. The KJV followed the Geneva that has the same translation, minus the notes. They are the only English Bibles who strictly use the Textus Receptus. So the utter demolition of Jerusalem and its temple didn't qualify as the end of the (Jewish) age? And it's all still off in the Future (but "soon"), despite Jesus telling his disciples to their face that many of them would live to see the end occur? |
| Amish User ID: 772038 United States09/15/2009 09:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So the utter demolition of Jerusalem and its temple didn't qualify as the end of the (Jewish) age? And it's all still off in the Future (but "soon"), despite Jesus telling his disciples to their face that many of them would live to see the end occur? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 766086What are you a babbel bot. If you have any scripture on an eternal hell claim lets see these which contradict the rest of the Bible. |
| Amish User ID: 772038 United States09/15/2009 09:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | JESUS WILL NOT TOUCH THE GROUND AT THE SECOND COMING Mat.24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 1 Thes.4:16-18 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. NO ONE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND BUT THE WICKED DEAD Matt.24:39-41 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 2 Thes.1:7-9 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Jer.25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. Rev.19:19-21 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. The sinners now all dead are not resurrected for another thousand years at the second death, for which there is no coming back ... The saints descend with Christ in the new Jerusalem after the thousand years ... Zech.14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Rev.21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev.20:5-9 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished....And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, .....and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev.21:1,4 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away.......And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Is.65:17-23 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be you glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more there an infant of days, nor an old man that has not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and my elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. Matthew 24:13, 14 - After the gospel is preached to all, "then shall the end come." 1 Corinthians 15:23 - "At his coming, then cometh the end ..." 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 5:3 - Those not "caught up," will experience "sudden destruction." 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 - When Jesus comes in flaming fire, the lost will be destroyed. Revelation 16:17, 18 - During the seventh trumpet, cities crumble around the world. Revelation 6:14; 16:20 - Every island sinks, and all the mountains disappear. Jeremiah 4:25-27 - Planet Earth is totally devastated, with "no man" left alive. Jeremiah 25:30-33 - Those slain by the Lord lie dead, unburied, all around the world. Revelation 19:17, 18, 21 - The birds eat the flesh of every human being left behind worldwide. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 09:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So the utter demolition of Jerusalem and its temple didn't qualify as the end of the (Jewish) age? And it's all still off in the Future (but "soon"), despite Jesus telling his disciples to their face that many of them would live to see the end occur? Quoting: AmishWhat are you a babbel bot. If you have any scripture on an eternal hell claim lets see these which contradict the rest of the Bible. Hell is a myth. Judgment is not endless, and it does not consist if literal real fire. 1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 1 Cor 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. 1 Timothy 4:10 the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, especially of those that believe 1 Chronicles 16:34 Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever. Lamentations 3:22 [It is of] the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever: Romans 5:20 But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: Psalm 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. 1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure James 1:18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures Malachi 3:2 But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like launderers' soap. He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver 1 Corinthians 15:22-30 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? Ephesians 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all {things} in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. Philippians 2:9-11 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 1 corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. 2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Isaiah 54:8 With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; But with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you," Says the LORD, your Redeemer. 1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Isaiah 57:16-19 For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would fail before Me, And the souls which I have made. For the iniquity of his covetousness I was angry and struck him; I hid and was angry, And he went on backsliding in the way of his heart. I have seen his ways, and will heal him; I will also lead him, And restore comforts to him And to his mourners. "I create the fruit of the lips: Peace, peace to him who is far off and to him who is near," Says the LORD, "And I will heal him." Psalm 30:5 For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for life; Weeping may endure for a night, But joy comes in the morning. Psalm 68:8 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive; You have received gifts among men, Even from the rebellious, That the LORD God might dwell there. Psalm 145:14 The LORD upholds all who fall, And raises up all who are bowed down Psalm 90:3 You turn man to destruction, And say, "Return, O children of men." Psalm 112:10 The wicked will see it and be grieved; He will gnash his teeth and melt {away}; The desire of the wicked shall perish. Acts 3:20-21 "and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, "whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Psalm 65:2-3 O You who hear prayer, To You all flesh will come. Iniquities prevail against me; As for our transgressions, You will provide atonement for them. Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Certainly we've all seen English translations of verses which at face value appear to contradict many of these. Should we accept the unpleasant ones and toss out the good, or should we examine it all further and measure it with what we see of Jesus' nature in the gospels? I will assert here that christians generally do not like the notion that "sinners" might get to heaven. It's the Older Brother syndrome. We insist that they'll get theirs, and we seem to believe that when Jesus declared "Paid in full", he was just making conversation. This is why when presented scriptural data that God is good to even the wicked, and that God is merciful and all will ultimately be saved, we reject it in favor of mistranslated, leavened passages about "hell" and the "Lake of Fire". Never mind that God uses fire to refine people, and He himself is a consuming fire. We've made "receiving Jebus" into a celebrated ritual that enables us to exclude and/or reject others who have not done so (like we have). We write people off because we believe God will eventually do so, too. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 766086 United States09/15/2009 09:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Matthew 24:13, 14 - After the gospel is preached to all, "then shall the end come." Quoting: AmishColossians 1 says the gospel already has been preached to every creature under heaven. Didn't all this stuff you're listing already occur? |
