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Dear Christians I have question.

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27748702
United States
12/03/2012 01:56 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"forces us to read the biblical scripture and worship jesus christ in order for our eternal souls not to be tortured for all eternity?"

*************************************


1. God does not force me to read the bible......but I myself like doing it......as it is refreshing to me.

2. God does not force me to worship Jesus Christ. I worship Him because I love Him.



Christ Himself went to the cross so that people can escape hell. This action took place many years ago. It is finished.


Those who understand that they are lost.....have turned their lives over to Him


Those who continue in rebellion against Him..... resist Him.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 01:59 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"So god basically put traps to send people to hell. How very godly!"


************************


Trap???


Your Creator suffered a cruel death for you.


If you wish to reject this free gift......that is your choice.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28951381
United States
12/03/2012 02:00 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"forces us to read the biblical scripture and worship jesus christ in order for our eternal souls not to be tortured for all eternity?"

*************************************


1. God does not force me to read the bible......but I myself like doing it......as it is refreshing to me.

2. God does not force me to worship Jesus Christ. I worship Him because I love Him.



Christ Himself went to the cross so that people can escape hell. This action took place many years ago. It is finished.


Those who understand that they are lost.....have turned their lives over to Him


Those who continue in rebellion against Him..... resist Him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27748702


Force isnt a good word, i shouldve used the word threaten or blackmail.

God threatens you to believe in the bible and accept christ as your lord and savior because if you dont he will send you to hell...

How can there be love where there is fear? How can you love a god and fear it at the same time?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28951381
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12/03/2012 02:02 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"So god basically put traps to send people to hell. How very godly!"


************************


Trap???


Your Creator suffered a cruel death for you.


If you wish to reject this free gift......that is your choice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27748702


Oh big fucking deal how christ died. Lots of people have died in thousands of times the pain christ endured. How is it a sacrifice if you know you arent actually going to die or be judged? Chrit was god incarnate so how is incarnating on earth and unwillingly being strung up on a cross a sacrifice? Christ didnt willingly walk up to the cross and say hang me for the sins of man... he was murdered...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1159544
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12/03/2012 02:09 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
How do you guys really make the sense of what the Holy Bible tell us?

That God sacrificed himself, to himself, to remove the curse he put on us?
 Quoting: Kurdish Shepherd 28432374


God didn't put the curse on us.
He warned Adam and Eve what would happen if they disobeyed and ate the fruit of knowledge, thus humankind, through Adam and Eve put the curse on ourselves, by our own choice.

God gave the LAW to provide human beings a way for salvation but no one, NOT ONE MAN or WOMAN was able to keep the law. So the Law only condemned us even more and exposed our sins so that it was clear that we all deserved death <- the ultimate punishment for SIN or EVIL.

The Son of God, Jesus Christ, who is God in the Flesh has to come into the world to accomplish what His creation (man) could not.

Because He had mercy on us, HE came to accomplish the task of being RIGHTEOUS before the LAW and fulfilling it and because HE overcame, He was raised to Life everlasting, because HE was without SIN and death could not hold HIM for there was nothing for death to hold on to. For death is only for those WITH SIN IN THEM.

Because of this, Jesus abolished death and ascended and sits on the right hand throne of the Father and has ALL POWER, for HE is God Almighty.

And though HE did not have to, He extended this Grace and Gift to all who would BELIEVE IN HIS NAME, BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF SALVATION THROUGH HIM. BELIEVE IN HIS RESURRECTION that this hope may be with all those that choose to BELIEVE IN HIM.

Because NO ONE ELSE COULD DO IT, God did it, to save us. Because HE had mercy on us and gave us ETERNAL HOPE IN HIM.

Because HE conquered death, HE gives to anyone the same resurrection and a place to be with HIM forever. For all those that will LIVE will LIVE THROUGH HIM AND HIM ALONE.

For HE is the author of all that is Love.
All that is Righteous.
All that is Good.
All that is Life.

After all HE is the CREATOR and defines all of creation.

In Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1159544


So let me get this straight. God created satan and banished him to earth once he rebelled. God then created man and placed adam and eve on the same planet he banished his arch nemesis to. He the whispered into adam and eves ears not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Satan then appeared as a snake and convinced eve to eat from the tree. Now that humanity has eaten from the tree satan has the power to condemn our eternal souls and the only thing god could do about it was to incarnate as a human and die on a cross and ascend into heaven in order to open up the pathway to heaven. Many years after he died on the cross and resurected as christ he spoke to a few prophets and had them write a few stories and put the together in a book. He now doesnt have any new prophets and forces us to read the biblical scripture and worship jesus christ in order for our eternal souls not to be tortured for all eternity?

That is by far the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28951381



We really don't know where Satan is or where he is "banished to". We know he roams around but do not know the limits of his roaming around.

We know that at some point there will be or has been a war (this is not made clear whether this is yet future or past or even present) in heaven and Satan will be cast down to the earth and restricted.

We know that Satan will be thrown into ETERNAL FIRE, the FINAL 2nd death with all sinners who still have SIN in them and not forgiven there as well, at the very LAST JUDGEMENT, after the 1000 period of Jesus Christ ruling on earth, until after that we enter into a New Heaven and New Earth for all BELIEVERS ONLY.

Until this point, it seems, all fallen angels are still in their places of authority in the earth and perhaps even other places as well?

But why do we care what places these fallen angels still reside for they are already condemned to Eternal Fire. Now THEIR SOLE PURPOSE to get deceive as many people as possible to get them also to go to Eternal Fire with them, for they are still in REBELLION against God.

I hope this makes more sense to you, but as another person already noted, only those with their eyes open and ears to hear will know what all this means.

In Jesus Christ!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25676821
United States
12/03/2012 02:13 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
Okay if that is true then tell me where i am mistaken in my thinking.
\/\/\/\/
God created satan and banished him to earth once he rebelled. God then created man and placed adam and eve on the same planet he banished his arch nemesis to. He the whispered into adam and eves ears not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Satan then appeared as a snake and convinced eve to eat from the tree. Now that humanity has eaten from the tree satan has the power to condemn our eternal souls and the only thing god could do about it was to incarnate as a human and die on a cross and ascend into heaven in order to open up the pathway to heaven. Many years after he died on the cross and resurected as christ he spoke to a few prophets and had them write a few stories and put the together in a book. He now doesnt have any new prophets and forces us to read the biblical scripture and worship jesus christ in order for our eternal souls not to be tortured for all eternity?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28951381


It's all about free will. God gave man free will, just like satan had. God wanted satan (and all his created beings) to worship Him, that's what he was created for. Satan obviously "talked them into it" when a third of the angels chose to go satan's way instead of obeying God, and were cast out of heaven. It doesn't say in the Bible that they are EXCLUSIVELY sent to earth....they roam around, to and fro - from earth to heaven and back again (see book of Job).

Man had dominion over all the earth. Man could choose to worship God and trust Him totally, instead man chose (as did satan) to disobey God, and suffer the consequences. Man gave away his dominion of this world over to satan when he disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit, and died spiritually and would from then on die one day physically, too.

When God saw that man had this sin nature, He had planned for His son, Jesus Christ, to come to earth to redeem (buy back) mankind in order to prevent God's wrath to fall on him, since God loved His creation so much. Jesus became sin for us, thus paying the price due for sinning, he went to hell and took the keys of death and hell away from satan forever, so no one again needs to go there. Essentially, like a big brother, going to fight a bully and take back our toy that the bully took away and laughs at us about it!

Man's free will again. Man can "believe" God did this for him, or not, and suffer the consequences of his own disobedience, and wind up in hell paying for his OWN sin.
Semper Fi
User ID: 6875630
United States
12/03/2012 02:20 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
The story is a little more intense. God created Angels first but when God created his own image (Adam) and told them to bow before his image, Lucifer refused and 1/3 of the angels. Because of this they were cast out onto the earth. Adam and Eve were like little children not knowing right and wrong. Like a puppy and curious like little children. But like little children you tell them don't touch something, they touch it anyways and get burned. God knew what was going to happen and he allowed it to happen that Humans may be like God Knowing.
Adam and Eve sinned but became aware understanding just like God. But there was a bad side to that they would die. Spiritually and Physically. Because of this original sin all men from creation till Jesus Christ went to hell. Seperated between the children of God and others who did wrong but in hell never the less . When Jesus Christ died he went into hell to destroy death and hell. People went to hell because of original sin. Those the receive Jesus Christ that curse is broken through his death. Those that refuse Jesus Christ that curse remains upon them. And will go to that place where you don't have to go.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:20 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
How do you guys really make the sense of what the Holy Bible tell us?

That God sacrificed himself, to himself, to remove the curse he put on us?
 Quoting: Kurdish Shepherd 28432374


God didn't put the curse on us.
He warned Adam and Eve what would happen if they disobeyed and ate the fruit of knowledge, thus humankind, through Adam and Eve put the curse on ourselves, by our own choice.

God gave the LAW to provide human beings a way for salvation but no one, NOT ONE MAN or WOMAN was able to keep the law. So the Law only condemned us even more and exposed our sins so that it was clear that we all deserved death <- the ultimate punishment for SIN or EVIL.

The Son of God, Jesus Christ, who is God in the Flesh has to come into the world to accomplish what His creation (man) could not.

Because He had mercy on us, HE came to accomplish the task of being RIGHTEOUS before the LAW and fulfilling it and because HE overcame, He was raised to Life everlasting, because HE was without SIN and death could not hold HIM for there was nothing for death to hold on to. For death is only for those WITH SIN IN THEM.

Because of this, Jesus abolished death and ascended and sits on the right hand throne of the Father and has ALL POWER, for HE is God Almighty.

And though HE did not have to, He extended this Grace and Gift to all who would BELIEVE IN HIS NAME, BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF SALVATION THROUGH HIM. BELIEVE IN HIS RESURRECTION that this hope may be with all those that choose to BELIEVE IN HIM.

Because NO ONE ELSE COULD DO IT, God did it, to save us. Because HE had mercy on us and gave us ETERNAL HOPE IN HIM.

Because HE conquered death, HE gives to anyone the same resurrection and a place to be with HIM forever. For all those that will LIVE will LIVE THROUGH HIM AND HIM ALONE.

For HE is the author of all that is Love.
All that is Righteous.
All that is Good.
All that is Life.

After all HE is the CREATOR and defines all of creation.

In Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1159544


So let me get this straight. God created satan and banished him to earth once he rebelled. God then created man and placed adam and eve on the same planet he banished his arch nemesis to. He the whispered into adam and eves ears not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Satan then appeared as a snake and convinced eve to eat from the tree. Now that humanity has eaten from the tree satan has the power to condemn our eternal souls and the only thing god could do about it was to incarnate as a human and die on a cross and ascend into heaven in order to open up the pathway to heaven. Many years after he died on the cross and resurected as christ he spoke to a few prophets and had them write a few stories and put the together in a book. He now doesnt have any new prophets and forces us to read the biblical scripture and worship jesus christ in order for our eternal souls not to be tortured for all eternity?

That is by far the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28951381



We really don't know where Satan is or where he is "banished to". We know he roams around but do not know the limits of his roaming around.

We know that at some point there will be or has been a war (this is not made clear whether this is yet future or past or even present) in heaven and Satan will be cast down to the earth and restricted.

We know that Satan will be thrown into ETERNAL FIRE, the FINAL 2nd death with all sinners who still have SIN in them and not forgiven there as well, at the very LAST JUDGEMENT, after the 1000 period of Jesus Christ ruling on earth, until after that we enter into a New Heaven and New Earth for all BELIEVERS ONLY.

Until this point, it seems, all fallen angels are still in their places of authority in the earth and perhaps even other places as well?

But why do we care what places these fallen angels still reside for they are already condemned to Eternal Fire. Now THEIR SOLE PURPOSE to get deceive as many people as possible to get them also to go to Eternal Fire with them, for they are still in REBELLION against God.

I hope this makes more sense to you, but as another person already noted, only those with their eyes open and ears to hear will know what all this means.

In Jesus Christ!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1159544


Either way your god lets satan control and enslave us...
Why would god have to have a war with a being he created? Is he not all powerful? He has to go to war with satan in order to defeat him? He cant just lock him in a prison?

So god sees us as no better than satan because some of us dont believe in the nicean scripture that was written by constantine and the council of nicea?

So only christians make it into heaven? That is less than 25% of the population... God is only going to save 25%of us? thats a dick move... Dont the jewish people worship the same god as you christians?

Dude why do you make god sound so un powerful? God is the most powerful force in the universe for he is the universe... God doesnt settle arguments with war... Do you really believe that god lives in the same dualistic principles that we do here on earth?

Do you really think that your eyes and ears are open? Your wearing blinders bro, youve been brainwashed to believe this is true so you dont even look outside of your cute little book... It is the most ancient form of brainwashing known to man..

In Lak`ech!
Kurdish Shepherd (OP)
User ID: 28432374
Finland
12/03/2012 02:23 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
The story is a little more intense. God created Angels first but when God created his own image (Adam) and told them to bow before his image, Lucifer refused and 1/3 of the angels. Because of this they were cast out onto the earth. Adam and Eve were like little children not knowing right and wrong. Like a puppy and curious like little children. But like little children you tell them don't touch something, they touch it anyways and get burned. God knew what was going to happen and he allowed it to happen that Humans may be like God Knowing.
Adam and Eve sinned but became aware understanding just like God. But there was a bad side to that they would die. Spiritually and Physically. Because of this original sin all men from creation till Jesus Christ went to hell. Seperated between the children of God and others who did wrong but in hell never the less . When Jesus Christ died he went into hell to destroy death and hell. People went to hell because of original sin. Those the receive Jesus Christ that curse is broken through his death. Those that refuse Jesus Christ that curse remains upon them. And will go to that place where you don't have to go.
 Quoting: Semper Fi 6875630


I will say only this much, Lucifer and Satan are not one and same identity. Lucifer is First Adam according to Bible.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:23 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"Do you believe in destiny or that god can see past, present and future?

If you do then you also believe that god destines people to hell and that we have no free will..."


********************************************


God most certainly has the power to see into the future.



The error that most humans make however is that God must do this......that He does not have the ability or interest in hiding certain future events......from Himself.


The fact that God displayed emotion......just as He was about to destroy His creation......shows that He hid the course of human actions from Himself....for a time.


God cannot lie......and because He showed these emotions.....it is obvious that He hid foreknowedge of these events from Himself.



Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And the Lord was SORRY that He made man on the earth, and he was GRIEVED in His heart.

So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am SORRY that I have made them.

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:24 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
How do you guys really make the sense of what the Holy Bible tell us?

That God sacrificed himself, to himself, to remove the curse he put on us?
 Quoting: Kurdish Shepherd 28432374


God didn't put the curse on us.
He warned Adam and Eve what would happen if they disobeyed and ate the fruit of knowledge, thus humankind, through Adam and Eve put the curse on ourselves, by our own choice.

God gave the LAW to provide human beings a way for salvation but no one, NOT ONE MAN or WOMAN was able to keep the law. So the Law only condemned us even more and exposed our sins so that it was clear that we all deserved death <- the ultimate punishment for SIN or EVIL.

The Son of God, Jesus Christ, who is God in the Flesh has to come into the world to accomplish what His creation (man) could not.

Because He had mercy on us, HE came to accomplish the task of being RIGHTEOUS before the LAW and fulfilling it and because HE overcame, He was raised to Life everlasting, because HE was without SIN and death could not hold HIM for there was nothing for death to hold on to. For death is only for those WITH SIN IN THEM.

Because of this, Jesus abolished death and ascended and sits on the right hand throne of the Father and has ALL POWER, for HE is God Almighty.

And though HE did not have to, He extended this Grace and Gift to all who would BELIEVE IN HIS NAME, BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF SALVATION THROUGH HIM. BELIEVE IN HIS RESURRECTION that this hope may be with all those that choose to BELIEVE IN HIM.

Because NO ONE ELSE COULD DO IT, God did it, to save us. Because HE had mercy on us and gave us ETERNAL HOPE IN HIM.

Because HE conquered death, HE gives to anyone the same resurrection and a place to be with HIM forever. For all those that will LIVE will LIVE THROUGH HIM AND HIM ALONE.

For HE is the author of all that is Love.
All that is Righteous.
All that is Good.
All that is Life.

After all HE is the CREATOR and defines all of creation.

In Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1159544


So let me get this straight. God created satan and banished him to earth once he rebelled. God then created man and placed adam and eve on the same planet he banished his arch nemesis to. He the whispered into adam and eves ears not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Satan then appeared as a snake and convinced eve to eat from the tree. Now that humanity has eaten from the tree satan has the power to condemn our eternal souls and the only thing god could do about it was to incarnate as a human and die on a cross and ascend into heaven in order to open up the pathway to heaven. Many years after he died on the cross and resurected as christ he spoke to a few prophets and had them write a few stories and put the together in a book. He now doesnt have any new prophets and forces us to read the biblical scripture and worship jesus christ in order for our eternal souls not to be tortured for all eternity?

That is by far the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28951381


Context, context, context. Adam and Eve were immortal and pure. This is the clue; the tree they ate from was called what....you guessed it, The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They would have never known evil if they hadn't done evil in the first place. But, just as Satan was the first rebel with the free will to disobey, God gave Adam and Eve this same right. Satan hated what God had created and he used lies to mislead them to this action. They had the choice to listen to satan or to listen to God. This tree was placed there for the express purpose of allowing this free will.

Just as any parent who truly loves their children, disciplines their children; God, told them ahead of time and warned of the consequences. It is not a curse, but is mankind exercising their right to choose. Evil was now a part of the human race. This evil, or sin, is what has alienated us from God, but He knows all that will transpire and had the solution already in the wings...Jesus Christ, the Word, who was there from the beginning.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:26 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS

He is all knowing..

all powerful..

and NOTHING he does is by mistake..

he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.

So satan FELL...

And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.

Please explain.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/03/2012 02:27 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
Okay if that is true then tell me where i am mistaken in my thinking.
\/\/\/\/
God created satan and banished him to earth once he rebelled. God then created man and placed adam and eve on the same planet he banished his arch nemesis to. He the whispered into adam and eves ears not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Satan then appeared as a snake and convinced eve to eat from the tree. Now that humanity has eaten from the tree satan has the power to condemn our eternal souls and the only thing god could do about it was to incarnate as a human and die on a cross and ascend into heaven in order to open up the pathway to heaven. Many years after he died on the cross and resurected as christ he spoke to a few prophets and had them write a few stories and put the together in a book. He now doesnt have any new prophets and forces us to read the biblical scripture and worship jesus christ in order for our eternal souls not to be tortured for all eternity?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28951381


It's all about free will. God gave man free will, just like satan had. God wanted satan (and all his created beings) to worship Him, that's what he was created for. Satan obviously "talked them into it" when a third of the angels chose to go satan's way instead of obeying God, and were cast out of heaven. It doesn't say in the Bible that they are EXCLUSIVELY sent to earth....they roam around, to and fro - from earth to heaven and back again (see book of Job).

Man had dominion over all the earth. Man could choose to worship God and trust Him totally, instead man chose (as did satan) to disobey God, and suffer the consequences. Man gave away his dominion of this world over to satan when he disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit, and died spiritually and would from then on die one day physically, too.

When God saw that man had this sin nature, He had planned for His son, Jesus Christ, to come to earth to redeem (buy back) mankind in order to prevent God's wrath to fall on him, since God loved His creation so much. Jesus became sin for us, thus paying the price due for sinning, he went to hell and took the keys of death and hell away from satan forever, so no one again needs to go there. Essentially, like a big brother, going to fight a bully and take back our toy that the bully took away and laughs at us about it!

Man's free will again. Man can "believe" God did this for him, or not, and suffer the consequences of his own disobedience, and wind up in hell paying for his OWN sin.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25676821


What free will do you have? If god sees past, present and future simultaneously then that means he knows exactly what you are ging to do in your life and controls your every move whether you can percieve it or not. If you believe in destiny then you do not believe in free will, plain and simple.
Either way god lets satan rule over us and condomn our eternal souls...
I didnt choose to disobey god so why is he punishing me? I didnt choose to be born into this fued between god and his reated arch nemesis.
Jesus christ is not gods son according to your bible... Christ is god incarnate...
So god did that yet people are still able to go to hell? that makes sense... The only way god could open the pathway to heaven was to incarnate as a human? that makes sense...
So god created satan and gave him the ability to bully his creating and god? That makes sense too...
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:29 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"How can there be love where there is fear? How can you love a god and fear it at the same time?"

****************************************


I was fortunate to have been adopted by some great parents. I loved them very much.

I messed up on a few occasions when I was about 7 or 8.....and got spanked on my butt. I deserved it. My dad only did this about 3 times......but I learned to listen to him more carefully, be more respetful, etc.etc.


I both loved him.....and feared him.....at the same time.
bvndy

User ID: 24070168
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12/03/2012 02:29 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
God does not approve sacrifices

Yes he tested Abraham to see what would Abraham do. To test his heart.

When god says to bring the first borns to him. Is to present your child to God. It has a spiritual sense. Not killing the child.

Pray that he may open your understanding of the spiritual significance of his words.

That's why Jesus said that spiritual things sound like foolishness to those don't understand.
 Quoting: Semper Fi 6875630


does not approve sacrifices?
Sacrifice on a regular basis was a part of old testament
religion, the sacrifice of Jesus supposedly ended that practice.
The Bible is like any other religious book, you can interpet
it any way you see fit.
The bible says that jesus is the only way through god, but the Catholic church told people for centuries that a priest was needed, when Gutenburg started printing bibles people saw that the church was "misinterpeting" things and the protyestant churces were born, each with their own interpetation of the bible
You can ignore the consequences of
your actions, but you cannot ignore
the RESULTS of the consequences of your actions

Ayn Rand
Semper Fi
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12/03/2012 02:31 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
Don't confuse yourself

Jesus Christ is Meek and loving beyond words. To those that are his. Whoever comes to him will receive his Love.

But whoever refuses him will receive his wrath.

He is

Lamb and Lion
Small and Great
Humble and Exalted
Soldier and Commander
Servant and King of Glory
Just Judge

He died that we may live only through him who takes the curse away from those who come to him. To those that refuse him that curse of original sin is still upon them.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:31 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
How do you guys really make the sense of what the Holy Bible tell us?

That God sacrificed himself, to himself, to remove the curse he put on us?
 Quoting: Kurdish Shepherd 28432374


God didn't put the curse on us.
He warned Adam and Eve what would happen if they disobeyed and ate the fruit of knowledge, thus humankind, through Adam and Eve put the curse on ourselves, by our own choice.

God gave the LAW to provide human beings a way for salvation but no one, NOT ONE MAN or WOMAN was able to keep the law. So the Law only condemned us even more and exposed our sins so that it was clear that we all deserved death <- the ultimate punishment for SIN or EVIL.

The Son of God, Jesus Christ, who is God in the Flesh has to come into the world to accomplish what His creation (man) could not.

Because He had mercy on us, HE came to accomplish the task of being RIGHTEOUS before the LAW and fulfilling it and because HE overcame, He was raised to Life everlasting, because HE was without SIN and death could not hold HIM for there was nothing for death to hold on to. For death is only for those WITH SIN IN THEM.

Because of this, Jesus abolished death and ascended and sits on the right hand throne of the Father and has ALL POWER, for HE is God Almighty.

And though HE did not have to, He extended this Grace and Gift to all who would BELIEVE IN HIS NAME, BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF SALVATION THROUGH HIM. BELIEVE IN HIS RESURRECTION that this hope may be with all those that choose to BELIEVE IN HIM.

Because NO ONE ELSE COULD DO IT, God did it, to save us. Because HE had mercy on us and gave us ETERNAL HOPE IN HIM.

Because HE conquered death, HE gives to anyone the same resurrection and a place to be with HIM forever. For all those that will LIVE will LIVE THROUGH HIM AND HIM ALONE.

For HE is the author of all that is Love.
All that is Righteous.
All that is Good.
All that is Life.

After all HE is the CREATOR and defines all of creation.

In Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1159544


So let me get this straight. God created satan and banished him to earth once he rebelled. God then created man and placed adam and eve on the same planet he banished his arch nemesis to. He the whispered into adam and eves ears not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Satan then appeared as a snake and convinced eve to eat from the tree. Now that humanity has eaten from the tree satan has the power to condemn our eternal souls and the only thing god could do about it was to incarnate as a human and die on a cross and ascend into heaven in order to open up the pathway to heaven. Many years after he died on the cross and resurected as christ he spoke to a few prophets and had them write a few stories and put the together in a book. He now doesnt have any new prophets and forces us to read the biblical scripture and worship jesus christ in order for our eternal souls not to be tortured for all eternity?

That is by far the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28951381


Context, context, context. Adam and Eve were immortal and pure. This is the clue; the tree they ate from was called what....you guessed it, The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They would have never known evil if they hadn't done evil in the first place. But, just as Satan was the first rebel with the free will to disobey, God gave Adam and Eve this same right. Satan hated what God had created and he used lies to mislead them to this action. They had the choice to listen to satan or to listen to God. This tree was placed there for the express purpose of allowing this free will.

Just as any parent who truly loves their children, disciplines their children; God, told them ahead of time and warned of the consequences. It is not a curse, but is mankind exercising their right to choose. Evil was now a part of the human race. This evil, or sin, is what has alienated us from God, but He knows all that will transpire and had the solution already in the wings...Jesus Christ, the Word, who was there from the beginning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29004635


Its called duality...

why did god create evil if he didnt plan on us discovering it? Why would he tempt us with knowledge just to trick us into sinning? why would he allow satan to corrupt gods creations?

If god was a parent on earth he would be sent to the electric chair... God saves about 25%of his children... The rest of us humans are to be tortured for eternity by gods evil creation who he knowingly created to be evil.
Dolt Bot Troll 5000
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12/03/2012 02:32 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
How do you guys really make the sense of what the Holy Bible tell us?

That God sacrificed himself, to himself, to remove the curse he put on us?
 Quoting: Kurdish Shepherd 28432374


Dude, you're a muckraking asswipe. You can twist and contort the Word of the Lord all you want, you're still born of Sin and thus the punishment is death!

What say you to that, bitch?
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:33 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"How can there be love where there is fear? How can you love a god and fear it at the same time?"

****************************************


I was fortunate to have been adopted by some great parents. I loved them very much.

I messed up on a few occasions when I was about 7 or 8.....and got spanked on my butt. I deserved it. My dad only did this about 3 times......but I learned to listen to him more carefully, be more respetful, etc.etc.


I both loved him.....and feared him.....at the same time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29004976


Yeah a good smack on the ass is justifiable but an eternal seperation from god and torture for all eternity is a little more harsh then a spanking... Your god is a psychopath who allows his creations to be captured by an evil entity he created... You are a lost soul my friend.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:34 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
...


Last of all, he sent his son to them. 'They will respect my son,' he said. But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.' So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants? Matthew 21:40


Jesus is not His Father, the only God of the Old Testament.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Correct me if I am mistaken, so are you saying that God then had to sacrifice his Son to remove the curse he put on us in first place?...
 Quoting: Kurdish Shepherd 28432374


Human sacrifices are prohibited by God in the Old Testament EXPLICITLY. An another mmisunderstanding of yours. Next?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Human Sacrifices prohibited by God, right?

Genesis 22:2
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Exodus 22:29
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

I think above verses from Bible should suffice that your God of Old Testament does approve Human Sacrifice. But let's do little math here.

It's clear that Adam and Eve were driven out of Paradise because of their transgression of the God's commandment, they sinned and because of them the curse was laid on whole humanity.

Romans 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.

Romans 5:19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

And we both know that according to Bible the salvation came through sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

If you were to insist that God of Old Testament and God of Jesus Christ are one and the same, then yes God of Old Testament did indeed sacrifice his Son, to remove the curse that he put on us in first place!...
 Quoting: Kurdish Shepherd 28432374


15Every thing that opens the womb in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or animals, shall be yours: nevertheless the firstborn of man shall you surely redeem, ... Num 18


They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded, nor did it enter my mind, that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin. Jeremiah 32:35


Enough my time spent on you, satanist. Have a warn eternity in Hell for you blaspheming God.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:34 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
How do you guys really make the sense of what the Holy Bible tell us?

That God sacrificed himself, to himself, to remove the curse he put on us?
 Quoting: Kurdish Shepherd 28432374


Dude, you're a muckraking asswipe. You can twist and contort the Word of the Lord all you want, you're still born of Sin and thus the punishment is death!

What say you to that, bitch?
 Quoting: Dolt Bot Troll 5000 20257839


Wow what a good christian! Now i see why god loves you more than he loves me! hahahahah
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:38 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"Do you believe in destiny or that god can see past, present and future?

If you do then you also believe that god destines people to hell and that we have no free will..."


********************************************


God most certainly has the power to see into the future.



The error that most humans make however is that God must do this......that He does not have the ability or interest in hiding certain future events......from Himself.


The fact that God displayed emotion......just as He was about to destroy His creation......shows that He hid the course of human actions from Himself....for a time.


God cannot lie......and because He showed these emotions.....it is obvious that He hid foreknowedge of these events from Himself.



Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And the Lord was SORRY that He made man on the earth, and he was GRIEVED in His heart.

So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am SORRY that I have made them.

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29004976


So instead of taking action and looking in to the future to find a way to save us all he would rather keep a few surprises so that things dont get boring? Psychopath...

So he regretted it but didnt have the ability to save us all? Wow he sounds like such an all knowing and all powerful god...

Dude your god is an evil asshole and i do not understand how you can justify worshipping such an evil monstergod.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:40 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"Oh big fucking deal how christ died. Lots of people have died in thousands of times the pain christ endured. How is it a sacrifice if you know you arent actually going to die or be judged? Chrit was god incarnate so how is incarnating on earth and unwillingly being strung up on a cross a sacrifice? Christ didnt willingly walk up to the cross and say hang me for the sins of man... he was murdered..."


*******************************************


Christ came into this world.......to go to the cross......and stood silent before His accusers.


He could have summoned legions of angels to destroy the Romans.....but did not do this.


1st Coming.....Suffering Servant


2nd Coming.....King (He will destroy the armies standing against Him with a Word from His mouth).


His first coming was foretold in the Psalms and the book of Isaiah....the coming of the suffering servant and sacrifice for mankind.


Psalms......written approx. 1,000 B.C.

Isaish......written approx. 700 B.C.
Semper Fi
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12/03/2012 02:41 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
Yeah a good smack on the ass is justifiable but an eternal seperation from god and torture for all eternity is a little more harsh then a spanking... Your god is a psychopath who allows his creations to be captured by an evil entity he created... You are a lost soul my friend.




He is telling mankind come to me that you won't be seperated from me. If you do not then you will be seperated from me. It's about CHOICE, THE CHOICE YOU MAKE IS YOUR WILL, FREE WILL. You don't have to be seperated from God. CHOICE IS YOURS.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:44 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS

He is all knowing..

all powerful..

and NOTHING he does is by mistake..

he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.

So satan FELL...

And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.

Please explain.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17438940


The fact that you are missing is that free will is based upon action. Just as Jesus Christ still had to die on the cross for those who would choose for Him to cement that choice, we all have to live out our lives in order to freely choose our eternal status, whether God knows the outcome or not.

God has placed every single chance to know Him in front of each of us, in many ways and at every moment that is possible, hence the 'spreading of the gospel', the wonders of His creation, the physical presence of Jesus Christ and ultimately, His book, the Bible. Just being here, right now, is an opportunity for YOU to give Him the chance to reveal Himself.

God wishes none to perish and every single time we have the opportunity to hear about Him, is Him offering us a chance to know Him and to come to Him. If we die and never responded to any of these opportunities, then that is WE who make a purposeful choice in this whole matter to ignore the small, still voice of God, who calls to us.

Him knowing, is Him being able to place, at every path and obstacle, a way for you to be saved. It is you, who believe the same lie satan told Adam and Eve and veer off this path that He tries to call you to.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:46 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"Oh big fucking deal how christ died. Lots of people have died in thousands of times the pain christ endured. How is it a sacrifice if you know you arent actually going to die or be judged? Chrit was god incarnate so how is incarnating on earth and unwillingly being strung up on a cross a sacrifice? Christ didnt willingly walk up to the cross and say hang me for the sins of man... he was murdered..."


*******************************************


Christ came into this world.......to go to the cross......and stood silent before His accusers.


He could have summoned legions of angels to destroy the Romans.....but did not do this.


1st Coming.....Suffering Servant


2nd Coming.....King (He will destroy the armies standing against Him with a Word from His mouth).


His first coming was foretold in the Psalms and the book of Isaiah....the coming of the suffering servant and sacrifice for mankind.


Psalms......written approx. 1,000 B.C.

Isaish......written approx. 700 B.C.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29004976


Well he didnt have a choice... The second coming was added to the bible by constantine so that when SHTF nobody would rebel... This allowed for deep corruption behind the scenes with noone asking questions... This card has now been played many times throughout history and right now it is being played again...
Psalms, isaish, all other biblical scripture...... Manipulated approx. 325 A.D. by constantine and the council of nicea.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:50 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
"So he regretted it but didnt have the ability to save us all? Wow he sounds like such an all knowing and all powerful god..."


**********************************


God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.


He has already gone to the cross......to save you.


So why do you say that He does not have the ability to save you?


He has given the Way of Salvation......but you reject it. That is called being in rebellion against God.


Why would any king allow his enemies and those in rebellion against Him into His castle ?????
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:51 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
Yeah a good smack on the ass is justifiable but an eternal seperation from god and torture for all eternity is a little more harsh then a spanking... Your god is a psychopath who allows his creations to be captured by an evil entity he created... You are a lost soul my friend.




He is telling mankind come to me that you won't be seperated from me. If you do not then you will be seperated from me. It's about CHOICE, THE CHOICE YOU MAKE IS YOUR WILL, FREE WILL. You don't have to be seperated from God. CHOICE IS YOURS.
 Quoting: Semper Fi 6875630


He is saying bow to me, kiss my ring and accept jesus christ as your lord and savior or i will hand you over to my executioner to be tortured for the rest of your eternal life. What a sweet and beautiful god... You really worship this god with a clean conscience?

So how do you justify people born in nations where other religions are prominent? How do you justify god sending children from africa to hell? People brainwashed into the islamic religion? Budhist monks? Ghandi?

I am not seperated from god for "he" lives within me.
-
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12/03/2012 02:52 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
You see the wages of sin is death (second death in lake of fire) and that all man will die, so when God set the plan to come to earth that we may know our creator who loves and forgives us fallen men who follow him only, then he devised a symbolic sacrificial system to explain this all. The entire sacrificial system of the Hebrews was symbolic of the coming Messiah - God anointed man, Christi Jesus. This is why that sacrificial system of Israel ended. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD and has not been rebuilt.

Mohammad invented the false Islam in the 7th century that is basically a gnostic knockoff of the truth as is gnosticism. Roman Catholicism is more of the same.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2012 02:55 PM
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Re: Dear Christians I have question.
God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS

He is all knowing..

all powerful..

and NOTHING he does is by mistake..

he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.

So satan FELL...

And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.

Please explain.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17438940


The fact that you are missing is that free will is based upon action. Just as Jesus Christ still had to die on the cross for those who would choose for Him to cement that choice, we all have to live out our lives in order to freely choose our eternal status, whether God knows the outcome or not.

God has placed every single chance to know Him in front of each of us, in many ways and at every moment that is possible, hence the 'spreading of the gospel', the wonders of His creation, the physical presence of Jesus Christ and ultimately, His book, the Bible. Just being here, right now, is an opportunity for YOU to give Him the chance to reveal Himself.

God wishes none to perish and every single time we have the opportunity to hear about Him, is Him offering us a chance to know Him and to come to Him. If we die and never responded to any of these opportunities, then that is WE who make a purposeful choice in this whole matter to ignore the small, still voice of God, who calls to us.

Him knowing, is Him being able to place, at every path and obstacle, a way for you to be saved. It is you, who believe the same lie satan told Adam and Eve and veer off this path that He tries to call you to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29004635


WHY would god even bother trying to call anyone if her knew in advance that no matter how and when he called that person would never respond?

Thats like having a time machine and being able to go into the future and seeing the building you built collapse each and ever time and yet being stupid enough to keep going back into the present and building it anyway KNWING it was totally pointless to do so.

Add to this you ON PURPOSE POPULATE that building with people who have NO IDEA that its going to fall and kill them and yet you send them in to live in this buil;ding anyway.

If there was a builder who did this..who built a building that he KNEW would collapse no matter what and STILL did it anyway...

And people found OUT that this builder ON PURPOSE sent all those people to their deaths KNOWING they would die..

Then that builder would be a BLODDY MURDERER.

But God is worse really.

He no only builds building (People he KNOWS will never respond to him) but when those building finally collapse as he KNEW THEY WOULD..he TORURES them forever for the CRIME of basically having been MADE to be burnt alive forever.

If a building falls down..WHO is at fault..the builder..or the tennants?

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