Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? | |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 72732688 Australia 08/06/2016 08:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? My church is right and your church is wrong and my god will burn you alive forever for daring to question my church. Same old bullshit thats been going on for centuries. Just pick a god and bash everyone with it. So which god will you serve? The catholic god who will burn you alive forever if you dont bow? The christian rapture tard god who will do the same? Or the muslim god who also burns people alive forever for refusal to submit? Or maybe Zeus who wil roast you in hades forever if you displease him? Or is it the lutheran or baptist god who also is into eternal torture if you dont bow down? Or maybe its the ancient egyptian god RA who has you tortured forever in the underworld if you stuff up? Or maybe the first god of eternal torture and death who thought this system up in the first place...Nimrod of ancient Babylon..father of all religions who use torture and fear to control the people.. And his wife Semiramis..goddess..whom the catholics came to know as mary...mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. See....the ancients knew. Polybius writes: "Since the multitude is ever fickle there is no other way to keep them in order but by fear of the invisible world; on which account our ancestors seem to me to have acted judiciously, when they contrived to bring into the popular belief these notions of the gods and of the infernal regions." Seneca says: "Those things which make the infernal regions terrible, the darkness, the prison, the river of flaming fire, the judgment seat, etc., are all a fable." Livy declares that Numa invented the doctrine, "a most efficacious means of governing an ignorant and barbarous populace." Strabo writes: "The multitude are restrained from vice by the punishments the gods are said to inflict upon offenders, for it is impossible to govern the crowd of women and all the common rabble by philosophical reasoning: these things the legislators used as scarecrows to terrify the childish multitude." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20177899 United States 08/06/2016 08:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? I take the word of G-d very seriously. Quoting: Dr VIP can you show me in the OT where does it say that one must believe in jesus in order to be saved? Are you willing to see? Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. So he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship, was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading Isaiah the prophet. Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go near and overtake this chariot." So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth." So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. |
Monotheism (OP) User ID: 72674588 Sweden 08/06/2016 08:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? Notice how Orthodox and Catholic Christians are a lot better versed when it comes to doctrine and church history. And they're not a least bit ashamed of their history either. They own is, Evangelicals try to whitewash it. Quoting: Monotheism I agree that Orthodox and Catholic Christians are a lot better versed when it comes to church history, but this is mostly because the other denominations don't really consider Orthodox or Catholic Church to be their church and its history to be their history, so they couldn't care less. They are, however, very well versed in what they consider to be their church's history, about which Orthodox and Catholic Christians, likewise, couldn't care less. Concerning doctrine, all I see of Orthodox and Catholics is that they can cite councils and dates and whoever has decided doctrine, by fiat, as if the Truth of God (or any truth, for that matter) could be decided by a majority of vote by a handful of men. And as for the original question, the OP is right that it makes no sense to accept Chalcedon and discard Ephesus. A sensible person will either accept both or deny both. My point was that Orthodox-Catholic history is Protestant history too. A history Protestants, and Evangelicals in particular, are trying to erase whilst still keeping the councils and creeds, and pretending the trinity was deducted through exegetical process. Hence church history not being emphasized in Evangelical circles. It's stricly self-preservation. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72734395 Brazil 08/06/2016 08:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? That's true. But at least they're leaning on tradition and apostolic authority, instead of a false notion of sola scriptura. There's always the built-in "it's true because I say so" clause. When evangelicals claim they can deduct the entirety of their faith from scripture they're just writing a check they can't cash. Quoting: Monotheism That's funny. That's exactly the same thing I think about those that claim 'prima scriptura'. I was also speaking about christians never getting a clear answer how can jesus be the messiah but not from the line of David, how can jesus be a sacrifice if he is not any of the sacrifical animals... why is the law done away with, feasts etc. Quoting: Dr VIP 1) Jesus was accepted as being from the line of David from its mother side, which is the relevant one for Jewish tradition. No one has ever contested this. Keep in mind that not even his enemies contested this. If there was any doubt about his lineage, his enemies would have jumped on this. They didn't. 2) The sacrifice is not the animal. The sacrifice is the spilling of blood, according to OT in Leviticus 17:11, and confirmed on NT in Hebrews 9:22. The species of the animal was never relevant. 3) The Law was not done away with. Paul was very clear that the Law was a shadow of things to come, and Christ himself said that not a dot of it would pass until everything was fulfilled. However, a shadow does not exist by itself. It exists because light is striking a solid, real object, which is the Christian Doctrine in this case. The singular aspects of the Law, as the feasts you cited, are no longer followed because they were nothing but shadows of singular aspects of the Christian Doctrine, which are followed. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72736213 United States 08/06/2016 08:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? Absolutely Blasphemous. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72736213 NOTHING in the Word of God promotes Mary above being "BLESSED", which she certainly was. God shares His throne with NO ONE. The only human being who will EVER sit on the Throne of God, is God Himself in the flesh, Jesus Christ. Mary was elevated by heretics in the early church to goddess status, to compete with Diana and all the other pagan goddesses, and MANY in the early church promoted the satanic notion, to their eternal shame. Christian ignorance on full display. These are the same series of councils that promoted Jesus to God, declared he had a hypostatic nature and invented the trinity. What's blaphemous? You claim Jesus is God, Mary bore and gave birth to him, how is she then not God bearer or God birther. Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. Mary provided the flesh. PERIOD. Jesus Christ IS and ALWAYS WAS, the WORD OF GOD. Mary didn't give birth to GOD! He always was and always will be! I can see there are people here who don't even know WHO JESUS CHRIST IS! Always with the same and paste. Pathetic. A bot could do what you do. How about at least trying to communicate like a human beings? She bore and gave birth to God, what does that make her, answer the question. Thread: Jesus denied being God Mary had God in her womb. THAT was certainly special, but if you are a child of GOD, YOU have God within you, in THE VERY SAME WAY THAT MARY DID. YOU apparently want to argue, OUTSIDE of the Word of GOD, because it either doesn't give you the answers YOU desire, or you are of your father the devil, who HATES the Word of God. I will copy and paste the entire Bible here, if I wish, and I DO WISH, because I LOVE THE WORD OF GOD! In IT and ONLY in IT will you find truth. Here is what SHOULD have happened to you if you ever became a child of God, which looks VERY UNLIKELY. JOHN 14 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that HE may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth HIM not, neither knoweth HIM: but ye know HIM; for HE dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. JOHN 15 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, HE shall testify of me: JOHN 16 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send HIM unto you. 8 And when HE is come, HE will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72734395 Brazil 08/06/2016 08:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? My point was that Orthodox-Catholic history is Protestant history too. A history Protestants, and Evangelicals in particular, are trying to erase whilst still keeping the councils and creeds, and pretending the trinity was deducted through exegetical process. Hence church history not being emphasized in Evangelical circles. It's stricly self-preservation. Quoting: Monotheism I understood what you said. However, they don't see it that way. They see their history more like... there was Jesus, and then the Apostles, and then a long "wolf" period when darkness reigned, and then light shone again when they were founded. I agree with you, however, that accepting councils and creeds while pretending they never happened is, to say the least, hypocritical. |
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Monotheism (OP) User ID: 72674588 Sweden 08/06/2016 09:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? ... Quoting: Monotheism Christian ignorance on full display. These are the same series of councils that promoted Jesus to God, declared he had a hypostatic nature and invented the trinity. What's blaphemous? You claim Jesus is God, Mary bore and gave birth to him, how is she then not God bearer or God birther. Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. Mary provided the flesh. PERIOD. Jesus Christ IS and ALWAYS WAS, the WORD OF GOD. Mary didn't give birth to GOD! He always was and always will be! I can see there are people here who don't even know WHO JESUS CHRIST IS! Always with the same and paste. Pathetic. A bot could do what you do. How about at least trying to communicate like a human beings? She bore and gave birth to God, what does that make her, answer the question. Thread: Jesus denied being God Mary had God in her womb. THAT was certainly special, but if you are a child of GOD, YOU have God within you, in THE VERY SAME WAY THAT MARY DID. YOU apparently want to argue, OUTSIDE of the Word of GOD, because it either doesn't give you the answers YOU desire, or you are of your father the devil, who HATES the Word of God. I will copy and paste the entire Bible here, if I wish, and I DO WISH, because I LOVE THE WORD OF GOD! In IT and ONLY in IT will you find truth. Here is what SHOULD have happened to you if you ever became a child of God, which looks VERY UNLIKELY. You can copy and paste the entire Harry Potter series too, and it still wouldn't give you any scriptural understanding. 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying, 44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, Matthew 22:43-45 The psalm quoted here is Psalm 110:1. The first LORD, usually capitalized, is not a translation of the text, but God's name, the tetragrammaton, being substituted. A Psalm of David. YHWH says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” Here we have YHWH, the Most High God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, adressing someone else, a second person referred to as lord, adoni. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72734395 Brazil 08/06/2016 09:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? Mono... I guess this thread has been hijacked and derailed by the not capable of discussion christians. Quoting: Dr VIP happens every time. They might as well be bots. Or organic portals. It's like there's no way to tell. I think they are paid shills, so I choose to ignore them, and engage only those that have demonstrated a minimum level of knowledge. Those I can learn from. |
Monotheism (OP) User ID: 72674588 Sweden 08/06/2016 09:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? You are WILLFULLY lost, denying the DIVINITY Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72736213 of Jesus Christ, so I will depart this thread, and leave you to your evil devices. You mean like Jesus himself denied? And Peter, John, Paul, etc? What does the word "divinity" even mean? Aren't angels divine beings too? Does God ever refer to Himself as "divine"? Why are you even using these words describing ontological attributes when God is a personal God with a personal identity? Sounds more like the kind of subtle semantic tricks a deceiver will do. Last Edited by Monotheism on 08/06/2016 09:11 PM |
Mary, Queen of Scots User ID: 1514614 United States 08/06/2016 09:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? This issue was settled in the 2nd ecumenical council. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28425798 It was settled by John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God "came in the flesh" therefore Mary is the Mother of God, the Holy Theotokos. As to the marriage part, the final split in 1054, when Rome declared Supreme Papacy over all the Orthodox church, has continued and even more doctrinal divides since prevail to date. That's all I know. Hope it was helpful. Good Response Bloody Mary |
Monotheism (OP) User ID: 72674588 Sweden 08/06/2016 09:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? Ok, guys, got to hit the sack. Good night, all, and may God bless you and guide you towards truth and the righteous path. Last Edited by Monotheism on 08/06/2016 09:25 PM |
leahnnovash User ID: 72734395 Brazil 08/06/2016 09:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? What does the word "divinity" even mean? Aren't angels divine beings too? Does God ever refer to Himself as "divine"? Why are you even using these words describing ontological attributes when God is a personal God with a personal identity? Sounds more like a kind of subtle semantic tricks a deceiver will do. Quoting: Monotheism Please, don't feed the trolls. The concept of 'divinity' does not exist in the Bible. There is a concept of 'spiritual beings' and 'wordly beings'. The idea of "divine beings" is pagan in origin, most likely greek or roman. Even Jesus himself despised the idea of 'divinity' as some sort of ontological nature of beings when he claimed that the judges of Israel could be rightfully called 'gods' themselves (John 10:34). The word for 'god' in the OT means nothing more than a mighty person. Such meaning has survived to this day as any dictionary will define god as "an adored, admired or influential person". |
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neo668 User ID: 72657256 Hong Kong 08/06/2016 10:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34069465 United States 08/06/2016 11:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? This thread is from a stricly ontological perspective, as it relates to church creeds, and not about practices like intercessory prayers or Catholic Mariolatry in general. Quoting: Monotheism I'll get things started: Clearly 'mother of God' is an absurdly frivolous Catholic rendition of theotokos, 'God bearer', 'God birther', declared at Ephesus. So which on is it, 'Mother of God' or God birther'? Neither? Can it be neither without confessing to Nestorianism? Can it be neither without discarding 16 centuries of Christian tradition, doctrine and Christology? Can you discard Ephesus and still keep Chalcedon? Please keep it civil and on topic. Discuss. your real question is: how can you explain the mystery of God? thinking...maybe if we just break it down into small slivers and parts we can create enough labels and philosophies and ideas to quantify the unquantifiable... and the only answer is: you can't. you will always lose sight of the forest from the trees... |
hillbilly User ID: 72705501 United States 08/07/2016 12:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? I was catching up on As I Am's thread, sorry I'm late to this one. Thread: The epistles in the bible are NOT talking about Jesus of Nazareth (Page 5) I have learned some new words from you guys. My Mariology statements there may have been more provocative here, I held back on the other Marys. My objections are merely the lack of female input recorded in ANY of these accounts. Women were at best seen and not heard, or worse merely property. Treatment of women and animals is the most important factor in a society's success. The He-man Woman Haters' Club has edited them all out. Music is the universal language. My Golden Rule is do Not unto others...Learn to be still, the answers will find you. Water is the only drink for a wise man. Call me a pot but heat me not.-Putin Silence is where God speaks. Anything else is but a poor translation. -Rumi Wanna hear God laugh? Just talk about your plans. An old broom knows all the corners. Slow is steady; steady is smooth; smooth is fast. Success has a thousand fathers but failure only one son. The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.-Gibran |
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hillbilly User ID: 72705501 United States 08/07/2016 01:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? ...graven image. The Christian church displays an empty cross, we follow his teachings, and worship the creator. Water is the only drink for a wise man. Call me a pot but heat me not.-Putin Silence is where God speaks. Anything else is but a poor translation. -Rumi Wanna hear God laugh? Just talk about your plans. An old broom knows all the corners. Slow is steady; steady is smooth; smooth is fast. Success has a thousand fathers but failure only one son. The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.-Gibran |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 48399690 United States 08/07/2016 02:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? First how many of you actually have READ the Word of YHVH all the way through - even ONCE? If you haven't then you have nothing but an opinion on what OTHERS'S say it says. Mary was a human born of woman, just like everyone else since Adam and Eve had children. Because of that, she had to offer the sin offering just like everyone else because she was "born in sin" having inherited the sin of Adam. Of course the Catholics say that she had no sin, which is found NO where in the Word. It only says she was "blessed" because she (an no one else would ever do so for obvious reasons) would bear the promised Messiah, but that doesn't make her "sin free". Since she was "born of woman" just like everyone else and inherited the "sin of Adam", then any children she would produce from her egg (DNA) would also bear THAT SAME SIN. Yeshua had no sin and was the spotless Lamb of YHVH. So how could He have no sin and be of Mary's DNA as He would have inherited the "sin of Adam" and would have needed to offer a SIN OFFERING for atonement? Can't be. It is said in Hebrews that he, as our High Priest didn't have to offer a sin offering as the High Priest did because He HAD NO SIN. YHVH created Adam from the "dust of the earth" with no human mother or father. Then why is it such a leap to think that He could do it again, for the "second Adam" who, unlike the first Adam, had no/did no sin? YHVH could have easily used Mary as a surrogate to grow His Son in, creating a fertilized egg needing NO genetic material from her. It happens all the time now. The ancient people of the time could not have conceived of it. So if any woman bore a child then it was considered that that child was conceived in the natural normal way. She bore Yeshua who had none of her DNA and people saw Him as HERS, and thereby of HER lineage. Joseph adopted him as HIS, and thereby giving Him HIS lineage (look up ancient near east customs of adoption). In fact, study the ancient near east customs/thinking (easily googled and several good books and papers on it, John Walton's books are a good start) etc. to keep from forcing the modern, scientific, Greek mindset onto an ancient culture, with no scientific though/process and that has a HEBREW thought pattern. Religion is made of man. YHVH has HIS WAY which is vastly different than man's controlling, honor stealing ways. There is a difference between Judaism (also, Christianity, Catholicism, and any other) and YHVH's Way. A little study and you can see this - they are all man made RELIGIONS. Study (do an inductive, in depth) covenant, the Tabernacle/Temple pattern, and READ the Word THROUGH from front to back, EVERY DAY, EVERY YEAR, year after year. Not just read AT IT, but READ IT. The vast majority have not even done this ONCE. They don't have the desire to do so, nor the desire to take the TIME to do so, but want to be seen as "knowledgeable" on it when they do not KNOW what it says. People get soooo offended when you ask this question because they HAVEN'T done so and do not want to be "exposed" as such and they will NEVER ANSWER THE QUESTION. It is easily remedied, just do it, you will be very surprised at what He tells you in it. Who commenting on this thread has read it at least ONE TIME? |
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As I am User ID: 71196646 United States 08/07/2016 02:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? First how many of you actually have READ the Word of YHVH all the way through - even ONCE? If you haven't then you have nothing but an opinion on what OTHERS'S say it says. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48399690 Mary was a human born of woman, just like everyone else since Adam and Eve had children. Because of that, she had to offer the sin offering just like everyone else because she was "born in sin" having inherited the sin of Adam. Of course the Catholics say that she had no sin, which is found NO where in the Word. It only says she was "blessed" because she (an no one else would ever do so for obvious reasons) would bear the promised Messiah, but that doesn't make her "sin free". Since she was "born of woman" just like everyone else and inherited the "sin of Adam", then any children she would produce from her egg (DNA) would also bear THAT SAME SIN. Yeshua had no sin and was the spotless Lamb of YHVH. So how could He have no sin and be of Mary's DNA as He would have inherited the "sin of Adam" and would have needed to offer a SIN OFFERING for atonement? Can't be. It is said in Hebrews that he, as our High Priest didn't have to offer a sin offering as the High Priest did because He HAD NO SIN. YHVH created Adam from the "dust of the earth" with no human mother or father. Then why is it such a leap to think that He could do it again, for the "second Adam" who, unlike the first Adam, had no/did no sin? YHVH could have easily used Mary as a surrogate to grow His Son in, creating a fertilized egg needing NO genetic material from her. It happens all the time now. The ancient people of the time could not have conceived of it. So if any woman bore a child then it was considered that that child was conceived in the natural normal way. She bore Yeshua who had none of her DNA and people saw Him as HERS, and thereby of HER lineage. Joseph adopted him as HIS, and thereby giving Him HIS lineage (look up ancient near east customs of adoption). In fact, study the ancient near east customs/thinking (easily googled and several good books and papers on it, John Walton's books are a good start) etc. to keep from forcing the modern, scientific, Greek mindset onto an ancient culture, with no scientific though/process and that has a HEBREW thought pattern. Religion is made of man. YHVH has HIS WAY which is vastly different than man's controlling, honor stealing ways. There is a difference between Judaism (also, Christianity, Catholicism, and any other) and YHVH's Way. A little study and you can see this - they are all man made RELIGIONS. Study (do an inductive, in depth) covenant, the Tabernacle/Temple pattern, and READ the Word THROUGH from front to back, EVERY DAY, EVERY YEAR, year after year. Not just read AT IT, but READ IT. The vast majority have not even done this ONCE. They don't have the desire to do so, nor the desire to take the TIME to do so, but want to be seen as "knowledgeable" on it when they do not KNOW what it says. People get soooo offended when you ask this question because they HAVEN'T done so and do not want to be "exposed" as such and they will NEVER ANSWER THE QUESTION. It is easily remedied, just do it, you will be very surprised at what He tells you in it. Who commenting on this thread has read it at least ONE TIME? I have read it through and I have studied it closely. And I come up with much different conclusions than you do, as is the case for many others. In fact, the closer you read it, without trying to force the doctrines into the text, the more you see that the standard tale doesn't hold up at all. And regardless of your attempt to differentiate, Christianity is as much a man made religion as the others. If you want to push for the historical Jesus so hard, since you are touting close study as a key, why not stop over to this thread and apply some or your close study to the myriad examples put forth that speak against your thesis. Thread: The epistles in the bible are NOT talking about Jesus of Nazareth |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 48399690 United States 08/07/2016 10:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? First how many of you actually have READ the Word of YHVH all the way through - even ONCE? If you haven't then you have nothing but an opinion on what OTHERS'S say it says. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48399690 Mary was a human born of woman, just like everyone else since Adam and Eve had children. Because of that, she had to offer the sin offering just like everyone else because she was "born in sin" having inherited the sin of Adam. Of course the Catholics say that she had no sin, which is found NO where in the Word. It only says she was "blessed" because she (an no one else would ever do so for obvious reasons) would bear the promised Messiah, but that doesn't make her "sin free". Since she was "born of woman" just like everyone else and inherited the "sin of Adam", then any children she would produce from her egg (DNA) would also bear THAT SAME SIN. Yeshua had no sin and was the spotless Lamb of YHVH. So how could He have no sin and be of Mary's DNA as He would have inherited the "sin of Adam" and would have needed to offer a SIN OFFERING for atonement? Can't be. It is said in Hebrews that he, as our High Priest didn't have to offer a sin offering as the High Priest did because He HAD NO SIN. YHVH created Adam from the "dust of the earth" with no human mother or father. Then why is it such a leap to think that He could do it again, for the "second Adam" who, unlike the first Adam, had no/did no sin? YHVH could have easily used Mary as a surrogate to grow His Son in, creating a fertilized egg needing NO genetic material from her. It happens all the time now. The ancient people of the time could not have conceived of it. So if any woman bore a child then it was considered that that child was conceived in the natural normal way. She bore Yeshua who had none of her DNA and people saw Him as HERS, and thereby of HER lineage. Joseph adopted him as HIS, and thereby giving Him HIS lineage (look up ancient near east customs of adoption). In fact, study the ancient near east customs/thinking (easily googled and several good books and papers on it, John Walton's books are a good start) etc. to keep from forcing the modern, scientific, Greek mindset onto an ancient culture, with no scientific though/process and that has a HEBREW thought pattern. Religion is made of man. YHVH has HIS WAY which is vastly different than man's controlling, honor stealing ways. There is a difference between Judaism (also, Christianity, Catholicism, and any other) and YHVH's Way. A little study and you can see this - they are all man made RELIGIONS. Study (do an inductive, in depth) covenant, the Tabernacle/Temple pattern, and READ the Word THROUGH from front to back, EVERY DAY, EVERY YEAR, year after year. Not just read AT IT, but READ IT. The vast majority have not even done this ONCE. They don't have the desire to do so, nor the desire to take the TIME to do so, but want to be seen as "knowledgeable" on it when they do not KNOW what it says. People get soooo offended when you ask this question because they HAVEN'T done so and do not want to be "exposed" as such and they will NEVER ANSWER THE QUESTION. It is easily remedied, just do it, you will be very surprised at what He tells you in it. Who commenting on this thread has read it at least ONE TIME? I have read it through and I have studied it closely. And I come up with much different conclusions than you do, as is the case for many others. In fact, the closer you read it, without trying to force the doctrines into the text, the more you see that the standard tale doesn't hold up at all. And regardless of your attempt to differentiate, Christianity is as much a man made religion as the others. If you want to push for the historical Jesus so hard, since you are touting close study as a key, why not stop over to this thread and apply some or your close study to the myriad examples put forth that speak against your thesis. Thread: The epistles in the bible are NOT talking about Jesus of Nazareth Never pushed, defended or differentiate Christianity. I said it is as much a man made religion as the rest. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32953949 United States 08/09/2016 04:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? How is there a difference between "Mother of God" and "God birther" lol? Also I'm Catholic, could write a book about Catholic doctrine on Mary, and I have no idea what Nestorianism or Chalcedon are. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72757588 Italy 08/09/2016 05:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72730910 Spain 08/09/2016 06:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Mary, mother of God/theotokos? What are the Christian objections to Catholic and Orthodox Mariology? Wasn't the deification of Mary just an attempt to get Sophia back in on the act, to acknowledge in some way the divine feminine? What about the ancient Triple Goddess... Cyril of Jerusalem, in his Coptic Discourse, mentions the three Marys at the foot of the Cross (Mother Mary, Mary Magdalene, and Mary Salome) |