Confused Christian

Just give it all up. You're only fooling yourself.

And I have to laugh because gnostic Christianity has been highly infiltrated, it's practically a minefield now.

Anyways, best to go straight to the source. Ask the father and have a bible handy. You really don't need a church, but it can be beneficial of course.
Don't get caught up in cult masquerading as Christianity

So, in other words, you choose to believe men. Does it then really matter what 'church' you choose when your ultimate choice has already been made?

Mortals´ beliefs do not matter, search for the truth.

Yea most groups calling themselves Gnostics nowadays are likely interpreting scriptures at their own whim (or the whim of their corrupt leaders) like most of the other denominations.

And I'm not confident in really any of the English translations of the Bible.

To me Thomas á Kempis was enlightened, and not because he was in the Roman Catholic church; meaning that his realizations likely had little to nothing to do with him being in the Roman Catholic church.

In any case, mark my words, if you take the time to study The Imitation of Christ by Thomas á Kempis and the Philokalia of the Desert Fathers, you won't be disappointed.

Based on what I've read of both, I prefer the Philokalia. But both works are indispensable Christian study IMO.

Last Edited by Asuralikeproduction on 08/29/2014 03:53 AM

I will check them out. I have the hallmarkers

Hopefully its online, doubt these books are in my local library.

[link to www.brethren.org]

I have had the same sort of problems in life. Some voice pushing me onward, I call God.

Yet when I approach anyone associated with a religion, its not what I would expect. It has left me with no sense of community, family, friends.Then the facts of being abused as a child after st. Clair sold us into slavery.

I have always been driven or felt like iI should start my own, church. I read the books and I get the impression we are to be working on bringing Gods kingdom to earth, yet it looks like hell from here.

Now with all the mind control and what not, I am cut off totally, least I accept advise from some other entity.

So for me, the devil wins, no church to turn to, now no God.

These "churches of men" are none of His. Pray for discernment and you will receive wisdom.

OP, forget sbout churches right now. If you really want the truth, start to read your bible and pray to the Lord for wisdom and understanding. Following Jesus is having a personal relationsship with Him and doing your best to emulate Him in your life. This has nothign to do with churches.

Start from square one, open your bible and start reading it and praying. Start with just the new testament if you like, and get to really knonw Jesus.

More and more are feeling the same way you do. Jesus is calling you out of her. I personally want to find like-minded individuals who prefer to meet outside and with no affiliation to any church. To visit the widows and orphans, help the poor and the sick, keep the Saturday Sabbath and the commandments and laws God requires.

I did go to a lutheran church before i relocated, and liked that. They are christian minus the worshiping of the pope.

I am baptist, and enjoy visiting various churches. But, do not leave a church if it is because you are feeling offense from a member or two. Sometimes God asks us to stay someplace for our own good, or the good of others...

Follow your spirit...

The big difference I have found in churches is the ritual stuff. The baptist, methodist, and overall protestant churches do more sermon stuff. I enjoy that over the Eucharist ritual sometimes...

Peace,

I did go to a lutheran church before i relocated, and liked that. They are christian minus the worshiping of the pope.

I am baptist, and enjoy visiting various churches. But, do not leave a church if it is because you are feeling offense from a member or two. Sometimes God asks us to stay someplace for our own good, or the good of others...

Follow your spirit...

The big difference I have found in churches is the ritual stuff. The baptist, methodist, and overall protestant churches do more sermon stuff. I enjoy that over the Eucharist ritual sometimes...

Peace,

Me also. I want so bad for my children to be involved in something, to know of a higher power of love and mercy.

However....

Both my wife and I abused sexually as children, her by catholics, me Christians.

I won't do that to my children.

Mark 7:13

thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Christians do not worship the pope. Don't confuse Catholicism with Christianity.

The first step is to beleive that you have a creator FATHER GOD.

the second is that humans do have wrong tendencies (sin)

the third is that we do need GOD's intervention through HIS instructions and plans. We are all in this need especially, since we are not alone but we have an unseen structure around us that is also influencing us to destruction.

This intervantion has been GOD's instructions through Scripture and HIS chosen LEADER, KING YASHUA (Jesus). He showed us how to live and act and so did the chosen prophets. GOD has been revealing what it is like in the place of HIS dwelling vs. what we have been trained by the outcast angels. YASHUA was always present with GOD. HE became in flesh, the only ONE made to be in flesh by GOD to carry out HIS messages and change the laws HE set up in the beginning as a result of SATAN.

If you believe as little as a little mustard seed you will understand that GOD's WORDS did in fact become a flesh man. Together with HIS own spirit, HE made himself known to us.

Now, We heard Yashua say, "It is finished". He conquered death. This was the seperation from GOD, the creator. We can not gain acess to HIM, by our own prayers and not through a priest. This was needed before Jesus, but not now.

After beleiving, you must learn. All peoples in the past studied God's scriptures, even the KINGS of Israel. Prophets knew the WORDS. Even Satan knows them. You know this by the scriptures when he tempted Yashua with them but Satan used them catering to ego and selfishness. The very things that caused him to be kicked out of the Heavenly Kingdom of GOD. YASHUA showed us that knowing the scripture, having the right love towards GOD, the FATHER, and resisting the self ego, HE was able to resist. HE said that our flesh is weak but our spirit is strong. Here's were you can fight first. As your spirit takes in the WORDS in scripture, you will be able to fight wrong teachings.

If you are confused. Understand you are not alone. This is a time that questioning what you beleive is happening because we are waking up to the fact that we have not leaned on the FATHER, but wanted man to teach us everything about HIM. Just like all the temptations in the past throught history by many leaders, we are also being tempted to remain nieve and asleep.

We are told that we are to be discipled. But, I asked myself, to what? I realized that leadership is human and not GOD and we are wrong to expect them all to be right in everything. Satan will go after the top to get to the full population. We see it all the time.

My advice is to study to show yourself approved rightly deciphering the WORD of GOD.

YOU STUDY! Confusion is good. GET hugary for TRUTH! This is what YASHUA came to do. Make you hungary for TRUTH. Tear down the lies by knowing the truth. The apostles asked many quesions. In the Old Testiment, we are told talk with GOD, to ask HIM! HE gave us this mind for a reason and a heart to love HIM first.

Get your BIBLE and get An interlinear Bible source. This book has all the numbers above the words so you can find the original meaning intended for that word. Take the number and look up the reference in a complete Word Study Dictionary of the OLD and New Testiment. Do this before you read the commentaries of other people. They have studied and made commentaries, but the HOLY SPIRIT exposes so many more things then they have found because scripture is not ccntined to time. Today, it will be opened up to expose more to our understanding for the good of the whole. GOD loosens the knowledge to us when HE deems it appropriate and useful to understand HIM and the events and that HE gets all the credit. I have seen things not in commentaries and have found othes finding the 'NEW" find as well. IT proves the HOLY SPIRIT is at work helping us grow and overcome.


Pray and ask the FATHER to lead you.

I prayed and opened my Bible and let it pick the book and scripture. READ each word and when a question arises about it, look it up! Read the chapter before. KNow the introction to the Book you are reading. You have to get the whole context! Know a little history. Know the ways of the people and the laws of that time. Understand the leadership's charectors, etc. Don't just pick out a verse and say, this is all it! IT"s never all it!!!

You can get a Bible concordance. when you find a word like cup. Look up all the references to cup. You will see GOD uses lots of illustrations about a cup. So many meanings but you will soon understand HOW GOD communicates and what HE is saying. Compare scripture to scripture.

Dig. This is what is meant by searching for a treasure in a field and once you find it, you give up all the other things in this world because the treasure in GOD's words are so layered that it will open so many more truths to you.

Today, the churches are full of nieve, sleeping confused, disallusioned people. It's all of our fault. I put myself up there on top. I bought into the lie that I need others to teach me truth. WE need to want to seek out GOD ourselvs! I really just needed to be lead to it and then let go to grow in it. But, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, I still need interaction with others who really truely know GOD. I love that fellowship and leaders who have shown a breaking of ego and a true love for GOD and HIS patient instructions. THE leader has to be willing to love, be patient and acknowledge his own faults. He is just a shepherd and with a great, great responsibility to keep GOD's words in Truth. The judgement falls on them great!

You will never find a preacher or leader like Jesus. He is our HIGH PRIEST now and HE knows it all. Feed on the scripture and you will become the one opening eyes to the people around you.

I had to let go of many things in the church, but not the people. I study and let go of the "works" that hinder me from the true walk. The more I searched, the hungrier I got. God revealed so much. So much love and so much truth and so much of what we bought into it is not necessary!!!!!

You study. You pray! You ask! You seek! You will see how the whole world is searching in the wrong places and have bought so many lies and that is why we are all suffering and still under the control of the father of this world that decieves us all. Oh, how I pray for leadership.

Look at the angels in the Bible and you will see how humble and serious they are about NOT acting their powers out against us because they are all messangers and servents as well. They, the HOLY ONES, are sent to us from the FATHER to help us. GOD has such higher purposes for us. Good ones that will help the whole of us all.

Our holidays are not the true holidays of GOD which actually reveal HIS own calendar. The Heavenlies will effect our world, not the other way around. Do not focus on the pain, and suffering that is taking place. There is a day of questioning that leads to truth seeking. Even our suffering has a purpose for good. I am not talking about what we do to ourselves or others becasue we are decieved into believing lies, but good suffering leads to so many great qualities in a person. We see it in many people who understand. You will see how they do follow GOd's words.

Do not let go of meeting with TRUE believers. Pray about it and GOD will show you. Check out the people. You can not do that by sitting in on a sermon.

Study as you are, but don't ever think its a denomination that will be totaly right. They are all filled with struggling human beings. The question to ask is .... which one is willing to let the people find the truth in the scriptures. Which one will let you learn side by side with the leaders and admitt that the way they may be doing things may be wrong.

When we really seek GOD for WHO HE really is, and what HE wants in us, we will see what nationalities, traditions, governements, laws, etc. have crept into the church meetings. We will soon see where you, yourself have your own calling to help bring peace again.

GOD is not into Denominations. HE is into the individual who wants to admit his or her own shortcomings and go to HIM and HIS directions and Salvation in HIS SON and then HE can help peel back the curtains to why you are here. It's never for lies, killing, or tearing down of others even when they are wrong. It is HIS job to correct but it is our job to piont out the truth in HIS SCHIPTURE. Once you show the way and the scripture truth, you let that person go!!!! Let him/her be free to learn as well. But to twist and cover up the truth becuase of fee of loosing a following will be dealt with by the Heavely FATHER. Dealing with it, HE is doing every day. If you judge HIS timing, you will see that you have a lot more to learn.

It takes time. God knows you and will gently show you what you can handle and when.

Find a church BUT study and pray for help in your own home. Turn your worship at home first! (study, pray, sing, give to the poor or in need ,etc.) This is what we, as believers, have fallen down on. YASHUA said the Kingdom of Heaven is within us. He never said it was in the temple (church building). He even said that the great temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed. This is why it was. We had to realize the new covenant of worship. But, we gather together as we are told to do so!!! To encourage each other and to share what GOD is doing in testimonies. We learn from each other and what GOD is doing. We are told to love our enemies as well and do good to them. To show that we belong to GOD, our CREATOR. They too are searching but are blinded. We can say, we have been too!

When you know true worship and greatfullness at home, you can share this with the people in the church. It only takes one person to start. But, realize many are asleep and sometimes it hurts to get up and face the truth. This too, takes time but do not sin in the process. You may be rejected. Realize they don't get it- YET! Forgive much, just as YASHUA forgave us. THis is why we needed a FATHER of GREAT LOVE, to give up HIS only SON on earth to us to do with as we pleased. HE died to change the covenant agreement of our condemnation. The fallen angels thought that they succeeded in puppeting us but it backfired! We now have full access to the truth when we seek. We no longer need the priests teachings. The HOLY SPIRIT and THE WORD which is scripture and YASHUA, is available to anyone!
The pastors, teachers, etc. in the churches today, are supposed to be the ones gifted by the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD not just taught by the schools and can get good grades and have a powerful personality or are great of speech. None of the apostles had this thing we do today. Respect the leaders though. God knows it all and HE deals with them all. THE church is judged first and CHrist is the HEAD of it! THE real CHRIST will handle it!

try to find an anabaptist home bible study
they stick to the Bible

This is for those that call themselves "christians", not for those who see faith in YHVH a stupid, worthless, fairytale thing. I respect your right to NOT believe, and I ask that you return the favor and respect my right to believe.

We used to attend a Baptist "church" for many years, active, served, was in "leadership" etc. We started having the feeling that there had to be more to this "christian" thing than just "going to church", listening to the "preacher" and all the other churchy things.

YHVH answered our prayer and started us on our journey to HIM. We thought we knew Him and Yeshua His Son. Unfortunately we didn't really know Him. We only knew Him from what "Christianity" had made Him into and taught - in their own image.

It was only AFTER we started reading His Word AND studying, front to back, every day that we saw and learned what HIS way truly is. It is quite different that what we had been taught and more satisfying to the soul. We have been doing this for 16 years now and the revelations from His Word have not stopped.

Some of the things we have learned:

It isn't about me, it is about Him where worship is concerned. Do you want an emotional high pleasure session when you "go to church", do you want to "feel good" or do you want to please YHVH? That is what Yeshua did and we are to be like Him. It isn't about your comfort, your likes, your wants, that is self worship - do a word study on worship, what it is, what it isn't, you will be amazed. You are supposed to worship HIM, not yourself (fleshly desires).

Do you "go to church"? The word that is translated "church" means the assembly of believers. It does not mean a building, a "religion", a place to go, a particular denomination or Catholic "church". It IS the people that make up Yeshua's Body - those who are redeemed and have accepted His sacrifice for sin, accept the covenant cut for them in His Blood, and, as He says, DO His commands (which are the same ones that YHVH has given us, John 1:1,14 + many more).

It isn't about "religion". Look that up also. If you are concerned about "religion", a particular denomination, then you are not concerned about being and doing what pleases YHVH. "Religion" is what you do - liturgy, serving, titles, leadership that is elevated, authority to or not to do certain things that are commanded. Man made the "religions" of the world.

YHVH, on the other hand, created a way to be reconciled to Him and how we are to live righteously before Him and how we are to treat our brother's and sisters. There is a wide gulf between the two. You won't find what you are looking for in a man made "religion" unless you are seeking pleasure for your flesh.

You can find peace and satisfaction for your soul and spirit with other covenant believers and it doesn't have to be in the framework of worldly organized "christianity", in some multi-million dollar building with the "leadership" telling you what is and what isn't to be done, what you can and cannot do, holding all spiritual "authority" over you.

You can do it as the first covenant believers did it. Did they have issues - yes. But that is what "working out your salvation" means, Learning, Experience, Growth, repeat till He returns, and then some more. Following the pattern He set does work.

If you want to know what we are supposed to do, and are commanded to do, read His Word - ALL of it. What is called the New Testament is only the fulfillment (and prophecy)of what YHVH has promised in the covenant He cut - a renewal, a reaffirmation. It doesn't negate the original, He doesn't change His mind and give a new way, it is and has been the same way from the beginning.

Leadership - it not about having the "authority" to dispense what we are supposed to be doing by His commands. HE gave us the authority to do so, with no inter-mediator but Yeshua. Man loves to be in authority over others. That is NOT what nor how the Body of Yeshua works. We all function in the gifts and places YHVH has given us, but it is for organization, order etc. NOT to "lord it over" others. The preacher/pastor is ONLY ONE of the gifts and it is not to be elevated above the others and has no more power, position, preeminence, authority than the others. They do not lead the "church" (the Body), Yeshua does.

That is man made as well, we love to put ourselves above one another for position, power, ego, ..... The Body is to be organized with a council of elders (who have lived according to His covenant as believers in His Son, for many years, proving themselves worthy,sincere, wise and experienced in His Ways). This keeps the abuse of position and greed out of it. And it works to keep the Body healthy and functioning as it is supposed to be.

No "head" pastors (Yeshua is the HEAD), no positions of authority, no priests, bishops, etc. - just the parts of His Body gifted and working in their YHVH given positions that are no higher in elevation than any other. We are all 'ordained' in His authority, we are a "kingdom of priests" doing His Will empowered, enabled and sent by HIM and only Him. We are an echad (one) Body of Yeshua.

If you tell a "preacher" or "priest" the above, watch and see what they are NOT willing to give up and you will see what their true motives and love is - ego, power, "authority" to "rule", greed, the money, the position, the prestige etc. Look at the "salaries", the building costs and then look at how the first covenant believers provided for the needs of all of their communities - they didn't spend it on those areas - they gave directly to the need!

It isn't about what the world or the "church" teaches, accepts, tolerates or decides. It IS about what YHVH says on a subject. Is He your Lord or are you, or the "church", or the world? If He is your Lord, then HE says what is sin, what is righteousness, who has authority, who is a "leader" (in teaching, modeling, example of what that righteousness is - not as in having people FOLLOW THEM, we only follow Yeshua as commanded), how you become reconciled to HIM, what He requires in worship..... READ and STUDY the instruction book - His Word. There is a BIG difference in what the world and the "church" teach and what YHVH tells us is His Truth about it.

Sin is defined by YHVH, not by the world or by emotions. YHVH gave us Yeshua because He loved His creation so much that He wanted to give us a way to be reconciled with HIM, forgiven of the sin. That requires repentance FROM the sin, a turning away from it, not a continuation IN IT.

YHVH doesn't tolerate, excuse away nor condone sin (that HE has said is sin), He has given us a way to be forgiven OF it, so that we can live a righteous life (no willful sin)before Him and with each other. How do you know what is sin? READ and STUDY His Word, none of what He has defined as sin is done away with because society and the world say it is or because they want to do what they want, or because it is defined as sin it makes people feel bad because they choose to continue in it and their fleshly desires. Do you think He is wrong and you are right about what is sin? Then you have a submission issue and you are your own god, thinking your understanding is above His.

The reason your soul and spirit are not satisfied is that you are making your own "religion" (or following a man made one)and god in your own image. Get to know YHVH and Yeshua (the Door to the Father) from what HE tells you about Himself, and His Ways. Learn about covenant (His Word)(it isn't dispensationalism), it is what you "take hold" of, it contains the promise of salvation, it contains how we are to live a righteous life with Him as our LORD (of all we do, think and are).

Trust Him with ALL of who you are, fully, mind, heart, soul, strength (Deut 6). Not just what you "THINK" and "decide" is right about what He commands.

We have had more depth of relationship, understanding, exponential growth, in the last 16 years than we did in all the years we were "going to church". We have a home fellowship with others who understand this as well.

Obedience to His Ways is not legalism, it is not salvation by works. It IS loving Him and our brothers and sisters in the way that He says we are to do. Faith in HIM and His Word FIRST, THEN we obey Him out of love and faith. This is what is wrong with "christianity" and organized "religion".

People who call themselves "christians" have not been taught this and do not know it, doing the only thing they see and have been taught to do (by others who do not know). They also do not know because they have not read nor studied His Word to find out. Possibly because of the free, easy, no expectation "way" that the "church" has provided and promotes for them. Relationships take work, if not it dies - parable of the seeds.

If you really want to know Him, His Ways, for a transformed life, that is and does what what a Covenant Believer is (not a worldly selfish, hypocritical "christian" portrayal), then you must make it your priority over your selfish flesh. Do you trust Him with your whole being to do so? Do you trust Him that He - the Creator - knows better than you (or the world)?

There are many Bible reading plans on the net. Inductively study the Word. Look up "Inductive Bible Study" to find out how to do this. The Word will be unlocked and you will find that Bible study is achievable and not just for a "professional". He desires to reveal Himself to YOU personally, and He does.

All of this is revealed in His Word and can be learned by doing what He says to do. It will show and teach you the true, transformational, purposeful, meaningful, sincere, honest, life that can be for ANY COVENANT Believer. That is what Yeshua lovingly died for, take hold of His tzit tzit.

To need to panic.
They all are confused.