You can't just make up etymology | |
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VeggieBeefTips (OP) User ID: 66798187 United States 02/10/2015 10:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you knew the origins of most words, you'd be surprised :-) Try it in a foreign language and it gets weirder and funnier:-) Quoting: Vala True. However, uncovering such sound relationships is not hard-etymology. Take the word "fruit" for example -- apples, oranges, etc. In Hebrew, the word for fruit is also "fruit". These two words sound the same, but what shows a clear etymological relationship is that not only do they sound the same, but that they mean the same thing. In indo-oriented languages on the other hand, fruit is 'falah' or something nearly indistinguishable from "falah'. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 63265313 Ireland 02/10/2015 10:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you knew the origins of most words, you'd be surprised :-) Try it in a foreign language and it gets weirder and funnier:-) Quoting: Vala True. However, uncovering such sound relationships is not hard-etymology. Take the word "fruit" for example -- apples, oranges, etc. In Hebrew, the word for fruit is also "fruit". These two words sound the same, but what shows a clear etymological relationship is that not only do they sound the same, but that they mean the same thing. In indo-oriented languages on the other hand, fruit is 'falah' or something nearly indistinguishable from "falah'. It's easy if you know the timeliness of each variation and how the phonics in different languages created different interpretations. Historical data can be found locally and expanded on. I'm always searching for new online libraries but translation is not accurate enough to be definitive :-) We need to share :-) |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 67902157 United States 02/10/2015 10:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I mean, I appreciate the effort. Quoting: VeggieBeefTips But, just because words sound similar does not mean they are related ... at all. They have to have some serious meaningful and historical (even alternative) link. I read in another thread: "Czar Tzar Cesar Kzar". Really? Czar and Cesar actually are etymologically linked. What is "Tzar"? Hebrew / Syrian / Phoenician yields "trouble". Does it have an indo relation? Is this even a word? Kzar -- the relationship between c and k doesn't make any kind of sense outside of modern englishy language. Point being: You can't just decide that a relationship exists simply because you just thought of it. Good etymology requires bravery and research. Thank you. THANK YOU! |
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Sungaze_At_Dawn User ID: 62256035 Canada 02/10/2015 10:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | All of them are ras or raz backwards. [link to en.wikipedia.org] Ras, an Ethiopian aristocratic and court title, as in Ras Tafari It could even be, Ra's, as in Is Ra El. The Devil tries to convince everyone he doesn't exist. The state tries to convince everyone they cannot resist. Do not go quietly into the good night. Rage Rage against the dying light! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50667838 Canada 02/10/2015 11:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I've only come across words like those a handful of times and I certainly get what you are saying, though. If you're going to say it make sure it's at least grounded in reality... |
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VeggieBeefTips (OP) User ID: 66798187 United States 02/10/2015 11:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you knew the origins of most words, you'd be surprised :-) Try it in a foreign language and it gets weirder and funnier:-) Quoting: Vala True. However, uncovering such sound relationships is not hard-etymology. Take the word "fruit" for example -- apples, oranges, etc. In Hebrew, the word for fruit is also "fruit". These two words sound the same, but what shows a clear etymological relationship is that not only do they sound the same, but that they mean the same thing. In indo-oriented languages on the other hand, fruit is 'falah' or something nearly indistinguishable from "falah'. It's easy if you know the timeliness of each variation and how the phonics in different languages created different interpretations. Historical data can be found locally and expanded on. I'm always searching for new online libraries but translation is not accurate enough to be definitive :-) We need to share :-) So, let's share. Bring down your attic books. |
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VeggieBeefTips (OP) User ID: 66798187 United States 02/10/2015 11:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree but would like to interject that in my experience online sources have a way of just dropping off and although I find very clear evidence including time/regional ... Synchronicities? I find no proper validation that I can quote. In cases like these, if I had the time or accessibility to sites like jstor and other archives, I strongly believe that the true etymology of a word could be arguably proven, peer reviewed 'n all, and thus 'extended' beyond the accepted status qou. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50667838 I've only come across words like those a handful of times and I certainly get what you are saying, though. If you're going to say it make sure it's at least grounded in reality... exactly. The support for the relationships needn't be peer-reviewed, but it needs to be rooted in some tangible, actual substance -- not just "well if you look at it this way, possibly, maybe, it could be, etc." |
VeggieBeefTips (OP) User ID: 66798187 United States 02/10/2015 11:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wow, this got really trippy about half-way through. It reminded me of this one time, I watched this historic film about a renowned figure immigrating to America, and he made a speech when he arrived. I watched the entire speech and understood every word he said -- I was surprised at how perfect his English was. Years later I was recounting the experience to someone, and they said that the speech-giver never spoke a word of English in his life. Finally, we tracked down the speech, and -- sure enough -- it was not in English... none of it. But I heard English, even though that wasn't what was being said. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 53728645 United States 02/11/2015 12:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I mean, I appreciate the effort. Quoting: VeggieBeefTips But, just because words sound similar does not mean they are related ... at all. They have to have some serious meaningful and historical (even alternative) link. I read in another thread: "Czar Tzar Cesar Kzar". Really? Czar and Cesar actually are etymologically linked. What is "Tzar"? Hebrew / Syrian / Phoenician yields "trouble". Does it have an indo relation? Is this even a word? Kzar -- the relationship between c and k doesn't make any kind of sense outside of modern englishy language. Point being: You can't just decide that a relationship exists simply because you just thought of it. Good etymology requires bravery and research. Thank you. Tzar is German as well as Kaiser. The word Czar, which English speakers use to refer to the Russian emperors, entered the Russian language as Tsar, the Old Slavic version of Caesar: tsesari. The spelling Czar is a respelling of the Russian word with the letters of the Latin alphabet. [link to www.dailywritingtips.com] |
VeggieBeefTips (OP) User ID: 66798187 United States 03/15/2015 01:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I mean, I appreciate the effort. Quoting: VeggieBeefTips But, just because words sound similar does not mean they are related ... at all. They have to have some serious meaningful and historical (even alternative) link. I read in another thread: "Czar Tzar Cesar Kzar". Really? Czar and Cesar actually are etymologically linked. What is "Tzar"? Hebrew / Syrian / Phoenician yields "trouble". Does it have an indo relation? Is this even a word? Kzar -- the relationship between c and k doesn't make any kind of sense outside of modern englishy language. Point being: You can't just decide that a relationship exists simply because you just thought of it. Good etymology requires bravery and research. Thank you. Tzar is German as well as Kaiser. The word Czar, which English speakers use to refer to the Russian emperors, entered the Russian language as Tsar, the Old Slavic version of Caesar: tsesari. The spelling Czar is a respelling of the Russian word with the letters of the Latin alphabet. [link to www.dailywritingtips.com] Exactly. It "entered" the language. "Kaiser" is (or at least appears to be) Germanic. "Tzar" and all of its derivatives "entered" Germanic language (i.e. Indo-European influence) and are not/is not native to the language. |