Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More - Bible Study

These are over 320 verses in which Jesus...

1. States who He is.
2. States that He was SENT, and WHY He was sent.
-sending requires authority.
3. Declares the soveriegn nature of the Father.
4. Declares the kingdom of the Father (not HIS kingdom).

The word "Father" occurs 250 times in 212 verses in Matthew thru John in the KJV.

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Of those 250 times, there are 224 verses where either Jesus or the Apostles refer to the "Father" - God.
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The phrase "my Father" occurs 56 times in 53 verses, all in the 4 Gospels & Revelation in the KJV.

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The phrase "the Father" occurs 143 times in 125 verses in the New Testament in the KJV.

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Jesus uses the phrase "the Father" 59 times
The Apostles use it another 50 times
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The phrase "our Father" 19 verses in the KJV

The phrase "your Father" 15 verses in the 4 Gospels

The phrase "thy Father" 3 verses in Matthew

The phrase "heavenly Father" 6 verses in the 4 Gospels

Jesus uses just the word "Father" 19 verses in the 4 Gospels

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Jesus states that He was "SENT" 47 times in the 4 Gospels

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The phrase "Son of God" is used 28 times in the 4 Gospels
The phrase "Son of God" is used 19 times in Acts thru Revelation

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The phrase "kingdom of God" (NOT "MY kingdom") is used 54 times in the 4 Gospels

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The phrase "kingdom of heaven" 32 times - NOT "MY kingdom" - (ALL in Matthew)

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Those who claim that Jesus is the Father Himself / God Almighty say this God praying to & talking to Himself?

It should be pointed out that nowhere in the Old Testament does God the Father pray to Himself.

That is 4000 YEARS or more.

I claim that John 17 is the Son of God praying to & talking to OUR Father!

When you read John 17, imagine that you are watching Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

John 17 KJV

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

These are over 320 verses in which Jesus...

1. States who He is.
2. States that He was SENT, and WHY He was sent.
-sending requires authority.
3. Declares the soveriegn nature of the Father.
4. Declares the kingdom of the Father (not HIS kingdom).

The word "Father" occurs 250 times in 212 verses in Matthew thru John in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Of those 250 times, there are 224 verses where either Jesus or the Apostles refer to the "Father" - God.
-----------------------------------------

The phrase "my Father" occurs 56 times in 53 verses, all in the 4 Gospels & Revelation in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
------------------------------------------

The phrase "the Father" occurs 143 times in 125 verses in the New Testament in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Jesus uses the phrase "the Father" 59 times
The Apostles use it another 50 times
----------------------------------------

The phrase "our Father" 19 verses in the KJV

The phrase "your Father" 15 verses in the 4 Gospels

The phrase "thy Father" 3 verses in Matthew

The phrase "heavenly Father" 6 verses in the 4 Gospels

Jesus uses just the word "Father" 19 verses in the 4 Gospels

----------------------------------------
Jesus states that He was "SENT" 47 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
----------------------------------------

The phrase "Son of God" is used 28 times in the 4 Gospels
The phrase "Son of God" is used 19 times in Acts thru Revelation

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
----------------------------------------

The phrase "kingdom of God" (NOT "MY kingdom") is used 54 times in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

----------------------------------------

The phrase "kingdom of heaven" 32 times - NOT "MY kingdom" - (ALL in Matthew)

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
-----------------------------------------

Those who claim that Jesus is the Father Himself / God Almighty say this God praying to & talking to Himself?

It should be pointed out that nowhere in the Old Testament does God the Father pray to Himself.

That is 4000 YEARS or more.

I claim that John 17 is the Son of God praying to & talking to OUR Father!

When you read John 17, imagine that you are watching Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

John 17 KJV

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Those who claim that Jesus is the Father Himself / God Almighty say John 17 is God praying to & talking to Himself.



It should be pointed out that nowhere in the Old Testament does God the Father pray to Himself.

That is 4000 YEARS or more.

God doesn't pray to Himself.

But the Son of God clearly prays TO the Father!

And that there is the wisest statement I have ever read here.

We all lowered ourselves to take on the form of man!

I pray you can break free.

I have actually met Jesus and have seen The Kingdom of God in a near death experience. Personal experience.

The infinite Almighty God exceeds the finite capabilities of your understanding.

Colossians 2:9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,

2 Peter 1:1 . . . our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

St. Paul uses the same phrase in Titus 2:13 as well.

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.”

John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

John 1:1, 14 (RSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

In Hebrews 1:6, God the Father also says that all the angels should worship God the Son. Worship can only be rightly applied to God, as we know from Exodus 34:14 and Deuteronomy 8:19. Yet Jesus accepted worship of Himself on many occasions (e.g., Mt 14:33; 28:9) and stated that He should be honored equally with the Father (Jn 5:23). In Revelation 5:8, 12-13 and Colossians 2:6-7, we find that Jesus is worshiped in every way that the Bible specifically describes worship of God the Father, with all the same words used (see: Rev 4:9-11, 5:13; 7:11-12, and Rom 11:33).

Colossians 1:19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,

He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke

Prince of peace!?

You're referring to Philippans 2, and OP can't refute this or any other scripture that clearly proves that Jesus is God:

Philippians 2:5-8
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Don't argue with OP. God has doesn't want him to understand the truth at this point.

I have read this thread over and over. There are things I can't understand.

1. How can Jesus forgive sin if He is not God?
2. How could Jesus be sinless if He is not God?
3. How can Jesus be Savior if He is not God?
4. How can Jesus be from everlasting to everlasting if He is not God, but a creation?
5. Why would he be called Emmanuel, God with us, if He is not God?
6. How can His dominion be everlasting, and His Kingdom never be destroyed if He is not God which is eternal?
7. From my understanding, Jesus has said He is God, and He is the Son of God, and that He is the son of man, and The Messiah/Christ.
8. And as far as making Father, Son, and Holy Spirit into 3 sperate persons, that is not at all true. It is the 3 natures of God that represent one wholeness. God is one. Same and Body, Soul, and Spirit. They aren't 3 separate beings, but 3 aspects of the nature of one being human.

And the LORD said to Moses, “I will do this very thing you have asked, for you have found favor in My sight, and I know you by name.” 18Then Moses said, “Please show me Your glory.” 19“I will cause all My goodness to pass in front of you,” the LORD replied, “and I will proclaim My name—the LORD—before you. I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”…

22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.…

Moses ask to see Gods Glory. what or whom did he see?

1. Because the Father has GIVEN Jesus the authority to do it. Jesus also gave the Apostles the ability to forgive. Who forgives our sins? Jesus TELLS us.

Matthew 6

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

2. Jesus is sinless because He's the only-begotten Son OF God. When Lucifer rebelled, he took some of the angels with him, so they too are capable of sin. Only Jesus, as the only-begotten, can not sin.

3. The Father is the True Saviour. He's the one who SENT Jesus. Jesus is considered Saviour because He did ALL the Father asked of Him. Here's all the verses in the KJV with the word "Saviour"

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4. "everlasting" because He IS the Son OF God - created from the Father's very essence.

5. No human called Jesus "Emmanuel" in the Bible. The angel was speaking to Mary. Isaiah 9:6 is the Father's words THROUGH Isaiah.

6. Eternal because Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.

7. Jesus NEVER once proclaimed that "I am God". AND He states that He is NOT EQUAL to the Father. The "before Abraham I am" and "the Father and I are one" verses are taken out of context by trinitarian and other doctrines.

8. I don't see a difference between "soul" and "spirit", as neither continue to exist after the final "white throne" judgement by Jesus.

How does Jesus sit at the Father's right hand and claim that the Father is God Himself, IF the statements Jesus makes are NOT TRUE?

John 20

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

....21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Matthew 16

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Help me please. I have always understood it as I said in my previous post. That God is one. Not 3 separate person. But triune as whole.

I believe in God our Father, I believe in Jesus the Son, and I believe in the Holy Spirit. Why is this wrong?

If Jesus was created, then there was a time before he was created. That means there was a time when the father did not have a son, where he had no one to love, that somehow, in creating Jesus, he became more that he was.

Unitarian craziness.

I also believe in God, His Son and the Holy Spirit.

I don't accept the doctrine that they are equal because scripture proves they are not.

It all starts with the Father. It's His Will that is being done.

Jesus does the Father's Will.
The Holy Spirit does the Father's Will.
Neither of them do things "of their own accord" / will.

Jesus was firstborn of creation. Cut and dried. He was with the Father during creation, doing as the Father did by "seeing" what the Father was doing.

Jesus was sent.
The Holy Spirit gets "sent".

Sending someone or something requires authority.

Jesus said "the Father is greater than I" among other things...including the fact that He sits at the Father's right hand.