I'm a Chemtrail Debunker/Detractor  . . . I would agree CHEMTRAILs exist if . . . Poll

What?! He can't ALSO notice that you put words into other peoples mouths?!

It's not about "helping"...it's about observing.

WRONG!~

The "gove" (I have to wonder if you don't spell it out...because you can't!) has NOT admitted that they are geoengineering...and they have NOT admitted that he trails we all see in the sky are in any way related to any such program. You are either a liar...or you are stupid....maybe both!

I love how you people "look up" and then assume that everything you see happening in the sky is related to the things you read on the internet.

It honestly doesn't get more hilarious than that. keep making stupid assumptions...and those of us who understand these subjects will keep laughing at you. Thanks for the entertainment!

I believe people who believe in chemtrails are shills for the people who write books and sell DVDs about conspiracy theories just in an effort to make money off a gullible, ignorant portion of the population. The most vitriol statements come from conspiracy believers so it's obvious they have a real investment in the conspiracy.

It's obvious Jorge is shill...

The more I read from these people...the more I'm convinced of the same thing.

And why can't I post the name of a popular (at least with conspiracy nuts) radio host with the initials A and J without being threatened with a ban?! From what I understand, he pushes this "chemtrail" crap all the time...

Are these people shills for him?

Sure "he who cannot be mentioned with a J" pays me handsomely to be
his Shill. . . .no one could possibly believe what they are saying about the aerial dispersal of aerosols . . . .how could anyone believe that CHEMTRAILs exist in any form !!!! . . .if you disagree with Noble, Snake and friends you are demented fools without one active brain cell to share among the entire
group. . . .

You cannot understand that one can weigh the evidence and believe they exist. . . hate to tell you that it is TRUE. . . We believe!!!!! I have no problem with my position. . . . GO FIGURE . . .

Notice of intent to perform weather modification/geo engineering program in Santa Barbara , Calif

Thread: Breaking... Notice of Intent to Perform Weather Modification: Santa Barbera County, California- Nov. 18 !

There is also a link to notice of intent in the Santa Maria Times in thread...

and this [link to www.countyofsb.org]
SB county public works and resources admits they've been doing this for years

Again, stupid...I'm referring to the OBVIOUS trails in the sky...you know...the ones in all the chemtard "chemtrail" videos?! Not your stupid definition which includes things that already HAVE names...which you (and ONLY you) have seen fit to include under the "chemtrail" umbrella....and rename...and seem to insist that others now use your stupid definition.. Of COURSE I KNOW things are released...from time to time...from airplanes...just as things are released from ALL forms of transportation from time to time...but that doesn't mean ANY of it is INTENDED to harm us!

And I wasn't saying YOU "shill" for anyone...It was a general statement...personally...I think you're just a paranoid moron...nothing more. I do think this site MAY be run buy someone who pays chemtards to recruit others into the anti-government cult...and people use "chemtrails as a tool...you tool!

Of course you have no problem with your mental illness...

That's why so many people with paranoid delusions "believe" they are right!

Your definition is very limited and stupid and is designed to make it impossible for Chemtrail Advocates to have any solid ground to debate the subject . . . you cannot and will not define the parameters of the debate . . . Advocates have the right to set the debate boundaries, not you if you don't like it go somewhere else. . .

Any substance released at altitude with intention to alter the environment is fair game . . . that includes Chaff and other substances . . .

How is my definition "limited" or stupid?! Have you even WATCHED the videos which include the term 'chemtrails" in the title?! Have you even READ the definition on this site...on wiki...or what Will Thomas...the man who CREATED the term AND the urban legend says they are?!

And you have yet to show that any substance related to these trails is being released intentionally to alter the environment! The ONLY chemical release that is performed for that purpose, as far as any evidence shows, is cloud seeding...and that already HAS a name! It's called cloud seeding...because it's called cloud seeding...not "chemtrails". Again, you can "pretend" you are in a position to change the names of things that already HAVE names...but i am going to call you on it!

Sorry, you ALSO can't " define the parameters of the debate" simply because every video labeled "chemtrails" and what people see when they get upset about this subject IS the long white trails in the sky.

Go ahead and cry about your own stupid definitions...

I'm through bumping your thread...you are literally too stupid to understand this subject...and you are using the gullibility of others to further you own agenda.

Bye douchebag...

Could I ask the location and day of these trails. . . Very heavy trails indeed . . . .

It's a great day!

So you think is is better to use the same term for multiple things.

The term "chemtrail" has been defined:

The Chemtrail conspiracy theory claims that some trails left behind jet aircraft are different in appearance and quality from those of normal contrails, may be composed of harmful chemicals, and are being deliberately produced, and covered up by the government. These unusual trails are referred to as "chemtrails" (a portmanteau of "chemical trails").

Some researchers believe that a chemical and/or biological agent of some sort is being released. The term "chemtrail" does not refer to common forms of aerial dumping (e.g. crop dusting, cloud seeding or aerial firefighting). It specifically refers to systematic, high-altitude dumping of unknown substances for undisclosed purposes, resulting in the appearance of these unusual contrails.

You are the one trying to expand the defintion. The word you are looking for is obfuscation.

I refer to Trails which can be either contrail or Chemtrail. . . .without having enough evidence to say a visible trail in the air is one or the other. . . .no matter what ones definition is . . . It is a trail. . . .

The term Chemtrail is less than two decades old and is therefore still evolving as to what the proper definition may really be . . . Therefore, I think Chemtrail Advocates through their use of the term have the right to define it as they choose. . . Sorry if you don't agree. . . you will find my suggestion below. . .

:C - #1a:

Solid Proof That Weather Modification Projects Are Being Conducted All Over The United States....



Most Americans still believe that our weather patterns are 100% natural and that our government has absolutely no control over the weather. Unfortunately, that is not the case at all. What you are about to read is evidence that weather modification is happening right now all over the United States. This is never acknowledged by our politicians and it is never talked about by the mainstream media. But it is very, very real. Weather modification programs in some parts of the country have been going on for many years and evidence of these programs is hidden in plain view. So does this mean that if we don’t like the weather we can just blame the government? Well, yes it does, but it also means that the government has been seriously messing around with our environment and there could be “unintended consequences” that are far more dramatic than any of us ever dared to imagine.

Those that believed that the government was involved in weather modification were once considered to be “kooks”, but the truth is that authorities aren’t even trying to hide it anymore. For example, the following was recently posted in the “Legal Notices” section of the classified ads in a local newspaper called The Tribune in San Luis Obispo, California….

NOTICE OF INTENTION WEATHER MODIFICATION PROGRAM THE SANTA BARBARA COUNTY WATER AGENCY HEREBY GIVES NOTICE OF INTENTION TO CONDUCT A WEATHER MODIFICATION PROGRAM NATURE AND PURPOSE: The purpose of the project is to increase rainfall to help alleviate deficiencies of water supplies in Santa Barbara County. Clouds would be seeded by the dispersal of Silver Iodide (AgI). Two possible modes of seeding, air based and ground based, would be used. LOCATION OF PURPOSE: Project operations could be conducted during the period between November 15 and April 15, for each year, 2011-2012 through 2015-2016. Airborne seeding operations would utilize air space over Santa Barbara County, portions of San Luis Obispo County as well as the Pacific Ocean immediately west of Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo Counties. Ground based seeding operations would be conducted from the Santa Ynez Mountains, the Casmalia Hills and the San Rafael Mountains. The target areas for seeding operations are the watersheds behind Cachuma and Gibraltar reservoirs on the Santa Ynez River as well as Twitchell reservoir on the Cuyama River. LICENSEE: The project would be operated and supervised by a licensed weather modification consultant.

Can it get much clearer than that?

The Santa Barbara County water agency is telling the world that it plans to conduct a weather modification program and it is explaining exactly how it will be done.

If you are thinking that this is something new, you might want to guess again.

Weather modification projects have been conducted down in Texas for years.

The following comes from the website of the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation….

Currently, cloud-seeding projects designed to increase rainfall from convective cloud towers are conducted in nearly 31 million acres of Texas (or almost one-fifth of the state’s land area). In administering the Texas Weather Modification Act (enacted by the Texas Legislature in 1967), TDLR’s weather modification program issues licenses and permits for these projects, many of which have been in existence since 2000. The projects use specialized aircraft and sophisticated weather radar systems, operated by skilled meteorologists, at sites near Amarillo, Plains, Pecos, San Angelo, and Pleasanton.

Anyone still want to be a skeptic after reading that?

According to the Texas state government, these weather modification projects have been going on down in Texas since the year 2000.

So if you live in Texas and you don’t like the weather, just blame Rick Perry.

But weather modification projects are not just happening in the United States. The truth is that they are going on all over the globe.

An article from the Guardian a couple of years ago talked about the mammoth weather modification projects that have been happening in China….

The Chinese air force claimed today that the biggest weather modification operation in the country’s history cleared the skies over Tiananmen Square just in time for the National Day parade.

I write this post under gorgeously azure skies. Instead of the dull haze I have grown used to in Beijing over the past few years, the light is so sharp that it almost hurts my eyes.

The transformation is so dramatic it is eerie. When I flew into Beijing yesterday, the city was shrouded in what looked like a thick smog.

An article posted on arabianbusiness.com talked about the extraordinary weather modification projects that have been sponsored by the Abu Dhabi government….

Scientists working for the Abu Dhabi government created more than 50 rainstorms in Al Ain in July and August of 2010, during the peak of the emirate’s summer months.

The rains are part of a secret $11m project, reportedly commissioned by HH Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, President of the UAE, which used ionisers to generate storms, the UK’s Sunday Times said.

It is thought to be the first time the team had produced man-made rain from otherwise clear skies.

According to the report, scientists used large ionisers, which resemble lampshades, to generate fields of negatively charged particles. That in turn creates cloud formation, leading to rain.

Over 122 days through the summer months, the emitters were switched on 74 times when atmospheric humidity reached the required level of 30 percent or more.

During that time, Al AIn experienced rainfall on 52 occasions on days when the country’s own weather service had predicted no clouds and no rain.

Are you starting to get the picture?

Unfortunately, we have no idea what the potential side effects of all of this weather modification will be.

Yes, we are learning to change the weather, but meanwhile our weather seems to be getting more unstable than ever. Over the course of this past year we have seen an incredible onslaught of natural disasters. Nearly every single region of the U.S. has been affected.

So obviously we are very far from mastering our control of the weather. In fact, we might actually be making things much worse by monkeying around with the weather.

But our authorities continue to want to play God.

For example, have you ever gone outside and looked up into the sky and been surprised to see it streaked with long white lines that don’t seem to go away for hours and hours?

They are known as “chemtrails”, and virtually none of our politicians will talk about them and virtually nobody in the mainstream media will talk about them.

But are we supposed to ignore the fact that they are there? All of us can see the planes leaving these trails and all of us can see that they stay up there for hours and hours.

This phenomenon is happening all over the world, and it is generally assumed that some kind of massive geo-engineering program is taking place.

The following video contains more information about these “chemtrails”. As you can see, there is a huge difference between the “contrails” that quickly dissipate behind airplanes and the “chemtrails” that are purposely being sprayed above all of our major cities….

Last Edited by No More SPAM on 11/20/2011 08:31 PM

The word you are looking for is obfuscation.

No one is claiming weather modification in terms of cloud seeding hasn't been done. Cloud seeding has been done for years. The “Inter State Artificial Rain Company” was formed around 1890 in Kansas.



Cloud seeding again



Cloud seeding has been done for years. So what?





The do not use commercial aircraft for cloud seeding. Cloud seeding is done using silver iodide or dry ice. Cloud seeding is not the contrails left as part of jet exhaust. Contrails occur when hot jet exhaust cools and the water vapor supersaturates the air causing a cloud to form. Not much different than the fog produced when you exhale on cold days. Is that a "chemtrail"? If so, you had better stop breathing.

And cloud seeding is done at cloud base or cloud top. It is not done in clear air.

Last Edited by F=ma on 11/20/2011 09:05 PM

The gov filed the patents with the US Patent and Trademark Office to uses aluminum, and barium, to cause fake clouds...

They even list them as " CHEMTRAILS" in their White papers...

Guess this was all done just for shits and giggles with no attempt to ever use it..


hahahahahahah

Let me see...I will apply for a patent that takes a spoon, then mixes it with a train, and spill red paint all over it....then melt is together, then bake it into a cake, then throw it up into the air.

...but I will never use it of course....

hahahahahahah

...but I will spend all that money for the patent... (and take it from someone who has over 12 patents)...I know what they cost, and how hard they are to get...

...The American people have been really dumbed down and will believe ANYTHING their gov tells them...


Its really sad...most of them won't live through what coming...


Hell On Earth!

That should be easy for you to prove. Show us the white papers.

We have to do everything for you people... :)))

But hey...this is what we do 12 hours day...

Here is one of hundreds of sites showing the patents, and other info proving this Chemtrials...That again...

The GOV NOW Admit to..

Its funny people say "my gov would never do this to me"...then the gov comes out and say... "Yes, We are doing this to you"

And still the Sheeple are so programed down, and dumbed down...they won't believe it...


Sad for you buddy...

The gov knows this and is laughing their ass off what they can get away with now that you have your face in the TV watching football..



[link to www.panacea-bocaf.org]

Last Edited by No More SPAM on 11/20/2011 10:03 PM

As I have already said, the most vitriol statements come from conspiracy believers so it's obvious they have a real investment in the conspiracy. You are shilling for the people who write books and sell DVDs and advertisements on websites about conspiracy theories just in an effort to make money off a gullible, ignorant portion of the population.

As expected, the website you sent me too does not verify your statements. Two things strike me as curious, the donations page and the name Panacea. Panacea is a term used for any solution to solve all problems. The one pill that cures all diseases. An unrealistic view of the world and how we can solve problems. But mainly, pointing people to this site proves you are a shill with their “send us money” plea.

Most of the discussion on the site confuses cloud seeding and experiments with contrails calling everything “chemtrails” and is based on ignorance and paranoia. For example, the 2007 WMO article discussed does not mention “chemtrails”:
[link to www.wmo.int]

It then provides a series of patents all of which are out of context or just wrong.
Patent Number 3,813,875
[link to patimg1.uspto.gov]
does talk about barium release in the upper atmosphere but this work was done in the 1970s at altitudes above 400 km with speeds greater than the Earth's escape velocity to permit tracing of magnetic-field lines.
[link to iopscience.iop.org]

In the 1950s, 60s, and 70s rocket release using lithium sodium, aluminum, and nitric oxide were done above 50 km to study high atmosphere motions.
Edwards et al,. (1963) J. Geophys. Res. 68 3021-32
None of the experiments were done at aircraft flight altitudes, used commercial aircraft, or any aircraft at all, nor did they produce contrails. All experiments were done 50 to 500 km using rockets.

Patent 3,899,144 is a method of sky writing using titanium dioxide, the same ingredient in paint.
[link to patimg1.uspto.gov]

While geo-engineering (Patent 5003186) has been discussed for some time there is no evidence that such a program is in place. Many ideas have been put forth but nothing to indicate they have been implemented.

The use of youtube videos and references to other conspiracy web sites does not increase credibility.

Likewise, further appeals to emotion, such as referencing HAARP does not increase credibility. HAARP is a shortwave radio transmitter to study the ionosphere and the Earth’s magnetic field. It has a similar effect as a solar flare but HAARP is much lower power. It is run by the University of Alaska and hosts an international community from Japan, Russia, Sweden, Norway, Canada, UK, and Peru to name a few countries that have been represented at the HAARP facility (just look at the publication records). It does not and cannot do min control, weather modification, or cause earthquakes.

The evidence is just a mish-mash of errors, lies, and misunderstandings. It does not prove your case or live up to the claims you make.

A rather well written response. . . .there are obviously people on the advocate side trying to make money and some advocates may be too easily manipulate by profiteers ; however, I think that most of the people who are advocates are genuinely concerned citizens who are seeking the truth. . . .

You also cherry-picked some of the more easily criticized issues on the site and did not tackle some that would be harder to deal with. . .

Yes, information sources presented always need to be analyzed and vetted as to their source and reliability. . . I tend to stay away from
YouTube and advocate websites, but some of their information can point researchers toward their own investigation. . .

The evidence that leads me to acknowledge the existence of CHEMTRAILs is the research and information from official government and institutional sites. . . Especially the GAO, Congressional Testimony, US Patent Office, IPCC, NASA, NOAA, history and Wikipedia, etc. . .

Beware the profiteer . . .

Last Edited by George B on 11/21/2011 09:15 AM

There are far too many things on that website then can be addressed here. What do you think is harder to tackle.

This patent for example was issued in 1991 . .. Meaning the timeline is perfect for its implementation. . . .the owners were Hughes Corp. . . .to become Raytheon corporation the principle contractor for Climate Research and aerosol dispersal, one of the principle chaff manufacturers in the world. . .

One cannot prove this patent has not been implemented. . . You think they have not because there was no press release. . . . . They don't for classified or covert programs . . . Until they are ready. ..:C - #3b:
:C - #2:
:C - #14a:

Last Edited by George B on 11/21/2011 01:14 PM

Logical fallacy. I did not say it hasn't I said there was no evidence that it has. It is your job to provide evidence that it has. So far, you have not provided evidence, only speculation and misinformation.

Your mention of chaff is a straw man. It has no relevance in the discussion. It is not dispersed through aircraft engines. Fibers are 1 to 2 cm long. That makes chaff too large to be inhaled. Any shorter and they would not appear on radar.

[link to www.fws.gov]
[link to heron.nrl.navy.mil]

Last Edited by F=ma on 11/21/2011 01:30 PM

There was no implication that the patent was about chaff. . . It was an indication that Raytheon was s supplier of aviation dispersed material as well as the owner of the patent in question . . .a significant consequence if you ask me. . . .

when a preponderance of circumstantial evidence is collected, correlated and verified,rational individuals are capable of connecting the dots . . . this is a very good example of such a trail of evidence. . . .

Last Edited by George B on 11/21/2011 01:39 PM