We are NOT Gods... There Is Only ONE God <<< His name Is Jesus Christ The Lord >>>

I dunno, but the whole concept of Christianity leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Literally ALL you have to do to save your soul is believe in Jesus in the flesh, and then you don't have to do any good works or anything, as long as you believe and keep your sin-repentance ratio in the black you're alright?

I find that to be a spiritual trap.

Well I know you said you covered it before, but it's a long thread so please, humour me.

Did Jesus or did Jesus not say we are Gods?

If not, Jesus is a liar or the words of Jesus in the Bible were wholly misrepresented. Either way that goes, your arguments fall apart.

If yes, you acknowledge that he said this, but choose to disregard it? If that's the case, you may have built your own prison.

No, christians aren't perfect. That's not the point. Christians don't even TRY to keep the foundational rules of the old testament. THAT is the point:

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The 'grace' business teaches in direct opposition to this. Jesus says to obey the old testament laws. Christians teach 'grace' and that the old laws are no longer in effect and don't bother with them or worry about them--you're not perfect anyway, so don't even try. Too much work...

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.



The point is that, if there is love for your god, the works, the obedience, will rise naturally from that. Sometimes you may fail, but the majority don't even TRY to live by the laws of the OT god. Even though jesus says to, james says to--and james goes so far as to say that if you aren't doing it, you don't really have true faith.

The doctrine of "we don't have to obey those laws, and we couldn't even if we tried, so don't bother" is simply not scriptural, not obedient to jesus, and definitely does not show love for the OT god, which is whom you are supposedly worshiping in jesus...



I am not speaking to you personally, dear. This is about the doctrines and the teachings, not you. I hope you don't feel like I'm making it about YOU as a person, because I certainly am not. I think you are a good person (no matter what the bible says about you :p).

Christians are literally prisoners of sin..

Romans 7:14
“I am of flesh sold into bondage to sin.”

1 Corinthians 7:22-23
“You were bought with a price, likewise he who was called while free is Christs slave.”

2 Timothy 1:8
“Do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me his prisoner.”

2 Corinthians 5:21
“He made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf.”

John 15:22,24
“If I had not come and spoken to them they would not have sin... If I had not done the works which no one else did, they would not have sin.”

Romans 7:18
“I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh...”

Romans 8:10
“If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.”

James 2:26
“The body without the spirit is dead.”

Romans 7:20
“If I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.”

Romans 7:23
“But I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war againest the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.”

Ephesians 3:1
“For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you gentiles...”

Ephesions 4:1
“Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called.”

Psalm 79:11
“Let the groaning of the prisoner come before you; according to the greatness of your power preserve those who are doomed to die.”

Isaiah 24:22
“They will be gathered together like prisoners in the dungeon, and will be confined in prison; and after many days they will be punished.”

Isaiah 42:7
“To open blind eyes, to bring prisoners from the dungeon and those who dwell in darkness from the prison.”

Revelations 18:2
“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.”

Bought and Sold

John 17:6
“They were yours and you gave them to me.”

1 Corinthians 6:20
“For you have been bought with a price.”

Zechariah 11:4
“Thus says the Lord my God, pasture the flock doomed to slaughter. Those who buy them slay them and go unpunished.”

Acts 20:28-29
“Be on guard for yourselves and all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.”

Colossians 1:13
“For he rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us, to the kingdom of his beloved son.”

Psalm 44:12
“You sell your people for next to nothing and are not enriched by selling them.”

Deuteronomy 32:30-31
“How could one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them and the Lord had given them up? Indeed their rock is not like our Rock, Even our enemies themselves judge this.”

Sheeple

Psalm 49:13
“This is the way of those who are foolish, and of those after them who approve their words. Selah
As sheep they are appointed for Sheol: Death shall be their shepherd.”

Revelations 1:18
“Behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.”

John 10:7
“Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.”

John 10:27
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me.”

When someone truly accepts in their heart, Jesus as their Lord and savior, they are filled with the Holy Spirit. Once you are filled with the Spirit you become a new creation in Christ Jesus. Do we still sin? Of course we do, for we are still living in this flesh. The difference is, when we now sin, our sins are revealed to us through the spirit, and we feel the need to repent of our sins and to ask forgiveness. Its very hard to explain, at least it is for me personally, but having the Holy spirit indwelled in you takes away the desire to wanna freely sin. Like i said, we still sin, and anybody that tells you differntly is lying.

I am not here to argue with anyone, just to tell of my personal experiences.

The silver lining is, as a believer in Christ Jesus, we know, that we know, that we know, that our sins are forgiven, by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. PTL!

I think this has proven the power of indoctrination over the intelligent evaluation of facts.

Sorry to repeat these FACTS but at least they are FACTS and not indoctrinated untruths.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him (GOD) should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It is very clear that the him is GOD who sent Jesus ... NOT Jesus! And this is proven in John 5:24.


John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him (GOD) that sent me (JESUS), hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Either John 5:24 is 100% incorrect or you are misreading who the him is in John 3:15 and John 3:16.

John 5:24 is very very specific!

If Christianity is full of honest people this simply can't be denied.

BUT indoctrination makes fools of many, and Jesus even warned Christians about that.

Mark 7:7-9 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.

I'm really sorry that many of you people are so indoctrinated by religions and so bland as to what Jesus actually said.

Some of you who would claim that the ten commandments are GODS laws break many.

Commandment 4. You haven't kept the Sabbath holy - You can worship any day but the Sabbath is 6pm Friday till 6pm Saturday.

Like myself you live in countries where the land was stolen and coveted and where many natives were killed by the Christian pioneers. Many of you probably support capital punishment.

Commandment 6. Thou shalt not kill.

Commandment 8. Thou shalt not steal.

Commandment 10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours property

Our forefathers both coveted and stole. We live on stolen land! If you buy a stolen ring from a thief have you committed a crime?

But also many of you have born false witness against posters here.

Commandment 9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

And many here show pictures of Christ, where crosses and have other religious paraphernalia.

Commandment 2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

And if Jesus is not GOD you have broken

Commandment 1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

So even leaving out Commandment 1 if you believe Jesus to be GOD, how many commandments have you and your forefathers broken?

So much for Christian values!

Mankind is in big trouble if the Bible is true and remember Christians with their threats of hellfire and damnation might be those who Jesus spoke of here

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Afterall REMEMBER Jesus also said

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Well maybe the Kingdom of Heaven already belongs to Atheists!

They didn't trust Christian handling of scriptures enough to even believe.

There are alot that claim Christianity, but in reality have never truly been indwelled with the Holy Spirit. They play church, then they go back into the world of sin. This gives Christians a bad rap, but you can't put every Christian under the same umbrella.

Secondly, Jesus fulfilled both the law and the prophets, which done of us could have possibly done. Thus our salvation comes from not obeying the law, but by our faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and His Righteousness. Contrary to popular opinion, Jesus never said that we must keep the OT law, but rather establish it, through love.

Am I saying that a Christian has a free reign to sin? No, of course not! If we sin wilfully, then the love of God is not in us. What I am saying is we won't be judged by the works of the law, but by faith.

James said, that faith without works is dead. That doesn't mean that we have to work our way to salvation, but by our works you can know if one is really in the faith.

Paul said, that it is by faith that you are saved, not by works.

Anyway, I just wanted to add another 2cents worth lol.

Trinity!!!

I suppose we are not gonna come to an agreement here. we keep bringing up the same scriptures over and over again, that has already been explained. Its like we are continuing to beat a dead horse.

We all have our own opinions, and thats okay, one day we will all know the truth.

:bless4:

Thanks for the thread TW it has been fun debating... I doubt people believing Jesus is GOD is the sin of the century (if incorrect) anyway!

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

LOL wait so I don't even have to believe in Jesus to be saved by him now?

I know exactly what you speak of, but think not that you are saved without intense spiritual study and rigour, as well as physical and mental discipline. Disciple-ine.

And don't assume you're talking to Jesus, as if you had been born in a different country you could just as easily think you were talking to Krishna, and proselytize Hinduism while thinking all Christians are eternally lost until they see the light of Brahman.

That might have come off a little harsh, but I'm just saying Jesus isn't the be-all end-all of deities.

You have not been paying attention.

Just because someone disagrees with you,

it does not necesarily mean that they agree with the OP.



@)

You're welcome! The feeling is mutual.

Unfortunately, most people in this world don't believe that Jesus is God. And this is EXACTLY what He prophesied that the generation that would see His return would be like! Those "falling away from the faith" is commencing as we speak...

Jesus says that we are God or part of God:

“The people are God. One could also say “a part of God”. A personified God with long beard or sitting on a cloud does not exist.” (Jesus Christ - Channeling; 97 05 13)

Yes, I agree unfortunately...

:xxx5:

If you beLIEve there is only one god, then you are far from being advanced spiritually...

It is monotheism, in a polytheistic galaxy... Many gods animating bodies, but only one god for you...

Re-legion lies, twists, and manipulates the truth...

What is occuring, is a weakening of the dna command structure that reinforces this beLIEf...

But, the genetic scientists knew this would occur over time, because it is not natural...

They intend to return, and fix it. The second coming, or a better way to put it, "the harvesting"...

In spirit

Luke referred to Paul as an Apostle.

Peter said this about Paul's writings:

...our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


You said this:




Who is bearing false witness?

Peter and Luke?

or


you?





(btw- it is fun 'debating' with you too)

Christ is still all too human...He is not god, he will simply be superhuman...and so will you

Last Edited by jesusV2 on 02/17/2012 04:03 PM

Of the fourteen letters attributed to Paul, he only wrote seven of them (even some of those are disputed), those being Romans, First Corinthians, Second Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, First Thessalonians, and Philemon

The First Epistle to Timothy, the Second Epistle to Timothy, and the Epistle to Titus are often referred to as the Pastoral Epistles, and, after Hebrews, are the most disputed of all the epistles attributed to Paul.

Just saying... let's be careful of the words we are putting into Paul's mouth :)

There are no preserved lists of a Christian New Testament canon from the 1st century and early 2nd century

Even tho Luke-Acts have been falsely ascribed to Luke the Evangelist, critical scholarship reveals that both the books (initially one volume) of Luke and Acts were anonymously written, c. 80-90 CE

Again, let's be careful of the words we are putting into Luke's mouth :)

Would it matter if their names were Bert and Ernie?



2 Timothy 3:16


16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:



}{

What weight would be given to quotes from Bert and Ernie?

I can guess anyone can manipulate anyone's word out of context... how does it feel?

:)

U mad?









:)

Mad? as in animals? or angry? as in human? Neither :)

I would simply like to see the voices of history represented correctly, or at least, to the best of our ability.

Paul's 'writings' are such a contradictory because... Paul didn't say them all :) It behooves us to determine which is which.

Then we simply disagree.


(But happy that you are not 'mad':)