How were you introduced to the concept of the Chemtrail conspiracy?

I have to call any pilot who leaves lingering trails of sun blocking mist ,made of whatever,
irresponsible.
And if I were king it would be off with their heads.I'm not really king material tho

I also developed a severe rash on all exposed skin in September 2012 along with breathing difficulty. Extremely heavy spray day over the eastern shore of Virginia at the beach. Doesn't help when very allergic to nickle (which I avoid at all cost). I hope there is a rational explanation.

First time I've seen another poster mention a rash after heavy spraying.

The point is flight crews are not responsible for corporate or regulatory decisions . . . just like you are not responsible for burning unleaded gas in your car . . . if you wish to drive your car you have no choice . . .

Last Edited by George B on 02/10/2013 01:16 PM

I am not saying trails over Va Beach didn't have anything to your allergy but if what you saw was at 35,000 feet . . . the content in those trails fell hundreds of miles away . . .

Congratulations we have 200 participants in the poll!!!!


POLL: How were you introduced to the concept of the Chemtrail conspiracy?
3) I notice them first in the sky and started to ask questions 52.0% (104)
2) I visited a website and they talked about them 15.5% (31)
1) Someone (a friend, family, etc.) told me about Chemtrails 11.5% (23)
9) Other . . . please specify 8.0% (16)
4) I was reading about a different conspiracy and they mentioned them . . . 7.5% (15)
5) I saw a discussion on a YouTube video 3.0% (6)
7) I was watching TV and I saw a documentary on the History Channel 1.0% (2)
8) I had a dream about them and just knew 1.0% (2)
6) I was watching TV and there was a news story about them 0.5% (1)
Blank (View Results) (21)

Non-Blank Votes: 200

What is your opinion George? What is a chemtrail? Or what would you call what others are calling chemtrails? Who do you think is responsible and why the secrecy?

Those are not simple questions Windy, but I will try to answer them . . .


What is your opinion George? After over two years of intensive study and debate I think the only large scale Intentional Covert Atmospheric Aerosol Injection Program or ICAAIP can only exist as a geoengineering program using Sulfur Compounds to slow global warming . . . this I hold possible for many, many reasons too long and complex to detail in this answer . . .

What is a chemtrail? To me a Chemtrail is an aerosol released at a significant altitude, from most likely an aircraft for a covert (secret) purpose . . . without the knowledge or consent of the people under the aerosol release or that may be affected by the aerosol release . . .

Or what would you call what others are calling chemtrails? I have gone back and forth on whether persistent contrails from modern high efficiency jet engines are chemtrails . . . I think it can be argued they are chemtrails, but to remove confusion, I now hold that persistent contrails are NOT chemtrails . . .

Who do you think is responsible and why the secrecy? . . . I think the secrecy of the program if it has been experimented with and/or has been operational is the Military Industrial Complex as defined by President Eisenhower in the farewell speech . . . it most likely began along with SDI under President Reagan . . . as a brainchild of Dr Edward Teller of LLNL . . . Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories . . .

Last Edited by George B on 02/10/2013 04:52 PM

[link to www.youtube.com]

George, I should have said we had traveled from my home in Maryland (approx. 175 mi.) to our vacation home near Wallops Island, Va. We had heavy trails in Maryland the morning we left for Virginia and again the next day while there. We also watched the trails while in route. I do not believe I could see an airplane at 35,000 feet. My vision is not that good! lol But, I will say there was more than one plane flying in both areas and they seemed to be working together and very, very visible. This is pretty close to a daily occurrence in this area.

If these trails weren't so frequent and both planes and trails so visible I wouldn't be so concerned. Can you actually see persisting contrails at 35,0000 ft. without a telescope?!

Very, very easily. . . because contrails, persistent contrails and contrail induced cirrus cloud banks normally only form in your latitudes around 30,000 feet and higher . . . because you need -40 C air temperatures and colder to have any chance of forming . . . the reason you can see contrails 4.5+ miles up is they are very reflective, they get wider and deeper as they dissipate and they are thousands of feet long or many, many miles long . . .



As far as multiple aircraft there are thousands of flights in the air in the US and Western Europe most of the day and night . . . take a look at this vid . . .





Last Edited by George B on 02/10/2013 06:36 PM

I'm still not convinced about these trails....mostly because I see them on a regular basis. Can clearly see the planes and the sky is bizarre, but appreciate the knowledge you are sharing.

Also, I just read your thread "What can aviation do to help save the planet", Oct. 4, 2012. Excellent thread!!! A lot is going on with our climate IMHO and remembered hearing about a hole in the ozone as far back as the early 70's. Now, that was convincing as to the possible why of it. Thanks!

You are most welcome. . . .thanks for looking at the other Thread!!

there ya go again, why do you do that George B?
I don't doubt it BUT WAS THERE ANOTHER REASON...

you are such a game player.

It is very easy to identify chemtail flights.

OK . . . you tell me . . .

I am not playing a game . . . X's can be caused by a variety of events . . . the trails can be seconds, minutes or hours apart . . . at altitudes thousands of feet apart . . . where wind speeds and even direction may be very different . . . displacing one trail in relation to another trail several miles and several degrees than where they were first laid down . . . and that could be true whether they were contrails or chemtrails . . .

Last Edited by George B on 02/10/2013 08:20 PM

All I can say is, I've been in Mexico since 04 and I don't remember ever seeing the kind of things I see pictures of now, and I certainly have never seen anything like it down here.

I know, it's the tropics, it's not cold enough. I still see contrails sometimes, I'm near Cancun airport, but never the spreading out persistent kind

I have no doubt you are seeing persistent trails . . . why just from 2004?? . . . if they are persistent contrails there may have been a new high altitude (above 35,000 feet) flight pattern started that year which did not exist before . . . being in the tropics or hot areas of the world will not prevent super cold air at high altitudes as you can see below an example of the atmospheric soundings over Guadalupe for 10 Feb 2013 . . . where at about 37,000 feet or 11,387 meters it was -46 degrees C . . .

. . .76526 Guadalupe Observations at 12Z 10 Feb 2013

300.0 9580 -34.1 -52.1 14 0.10 245 75 337.2 337.6 337.2
256.0 10667 -41.9 -58.2 15 0.06 255 83 341.3 341.5 341.3
250.0 10830 -43.1 -59.1 16 0.05 260 80 341.9 342.1 341.9
230.0 11387 -46.1 -66.1 9 0.02 260 70 345.5 345.6 345.5
217.0 11771 -49.3 -68.3 9 0.02 260 69 346.4 346.5 346.4
200.0 12300 -53.3 -71.3 9 0.01 255 66 348.2 348.3 348.2
192.0 12562 -55.1 -72.1 10 0.01 255 64 349.4 349.5 349.4
173.0 13221 -59.1 -75.1 11 0.01 250 65 353.4 353.4 353.4
162.0 13630 -62.7 -77.7 12 0.01 245 77 354.0 354.0 354.0
151.0 14060 -65.9 -79.9 13 0.00 265 73 355.7 355.7 355.7
150.0 14100 -66.1 -80.1 13 0.00 245 78 356.0 356.1 356.0
141.0 14474 -68.3 -81.3 14 0.00 250 51 358.5 358.5 358.5
112.0 15846 -72.5 -86.5 11 0.00 255 48 375.1 375.1 375.1
105.0 16225 -74.1 -88.1 10 0.00 235 49 379.0 379.0 379.0
100.0 16510 -74.7 -87.7 12 0.00 240 47 383.1 383.2 383.1
70.0 18530 -81.1 -94.1 10 0.00 250 28 410.6 410.6 410.6
50.0 20490 -70.1 -84.1 11 0.01 256 24 477.9 477.9 477.9
30.0 23620 -60.1 -79.1 7 0.03 265 17 580.2 580.4 580.2
20.0 26190 -52.1 -78.1 3 0.05 260 25 675.9 676.4 676.0
10.0 30740 -45.7 -79.7 1 0.07 260 45 847.8 848.7 847.9

Station information and sounding indices

[link to weather.uwyo.edu]

Last Edited by George B on 02/10/2013 09:11 PM

9)

I noticed the trails wouldn't disappear, instead they would expand and create clouds.

ALso because I see it's in discussion among others. The trails are ruffled, and spiral more than normal contrails. They look like stiching.

Thanks for you participation . . .

How would you know for sure unless someone took a sample of one and compared it with one you expected to be normal ??

Last Edited by George B on 02/10/2013 09:09 PM

POLL: How were you introduced to the concept of the Chemtrail conspiracy?
3) I notice them first in the sky and started to ask questions 52.7% (116)
2) I visited a website and they talked about them 15.9% (35)
1) Someone (a friend, family, etc.) told me about Chemtrails 11.4% (25)
4) I was reading about a different conspiracy and they mentioned them . . . 7.3% (16)
9) Other . . . please specify 7.3% (16)
5) I saw a discussion on a YouTube video 3.2% (7)
7) I was watching TV and I saw a documentary on the History Channel 0.9% (2)
8) I had a dream about them and just knew 0.9% (2)
6) I was watching TV and there was a news story about them 0.5% (1)
Blank (View Results) (24)

Non-Blank Votes: 220

[link to www-pm.larc.nasa.gov]

NASA Scientist proposes using commercial air traffic to alter local climates . . .


[link to www-pm.larc.nasa.gov]

Solutions?

"In principle, it may be possible to selectively
Minimize the creation of late afternoon contrail-
Induced cloudiness that will persist during the
night, when they would have a net warming
Effect, while intentionally increasing the forma-
tion of contrails early in the day, generating a
Daytime cooling. Current research is focused on
Accurately predicting the times and locations
At which contrails are liekely to persist for long
periods of time and spread over wide areas as
Contrail-induced cirrus. Such information could
Help mitigate the negative effects of aviation on
Regional and global climate by incorporating it
Into operational air traffic control and routing
Systems."
[email protected]

Ninth USA/Europe Air Traffic Management Research and Development Seminar (ATM2011)


[link to www.aviationsystemsdivision.arc.nasa.gov]

Design of Aircraft Trajectories based on
Trade-offs between Emission Sources

Abstract – Aviation operations affect the climate in several
ways. Carbon dioxide, water vapor and other greenhouse
gasses are unavoidable by-product of the combustion of
fossil fuel. There are indications that persistent contrails
can lead to adverse climate change, although the complete
effect on climate forcing is still uncertain. A flight
trajectory optimization algorithm with fuel and contrails
models, which develops alternative flight paths, provides
policy makers the necessary data to make trade-offs
between persistent contrails mitigation and aircraft fuel
consumption. This study develops an algorithm that
calculates wind-optimal trajectories for cruising aircraft
while reducing the amount of time spent in regions of
airspace prone to persistent contrails formation. The
optimal trajectories are developed by solving a non-linear
optimal control problem with path constraints. The
regions of airspace favorable to persistent contrails
formation are modeled as penalty areas that aircraft
should avoid. The trade-off between persistent contrails
formation and additional fuel consumption is investigated
for 12 city-pairs in the continental United States. The
avoidance of contrails using only horizontal maneuvers
results in a small reduction of contrails with increasing
fuel consumption. When both horizontal maneuvers and
altitude are optimized, a 2% increase in total fuel
consumption can reduce the total travel times through
contrail regions by more than 70%. Allowing further
increase in fuel consumption does not seem to result in
proportionate reduction in contrail travel times. This
trend is maintained even in the presence of uncertainties
in the contrail formation regions such as uncertainties in
relative humidity values computed by weather forecast
models.

[link to www.pbs.org]

The Contrail Effect
• By Peter Tyson
• Posted 04.18.06
• NOVA

Taking action


The British government, for one, may be about to. It's considering requiring planes to fly at lower altitudes over Great Britain in hopes of promoting fewer contrails.

Very interesting quote . . . from . . .Science News

"All jet exhausts do not create contrails. In warmer areas, contrails are rare, while in temperate areas, especially in the Midwest and Great Plains, contrails are common, especially in the winter and spring. Sometimes, the added moisture of a series of jets will increase the atmospheric humidity enough so that subsequent aircraft will form contrails even though earlier ones did not. "

Contrails alter temperature the same way that natural high clouds do. During the day, the layer of ice crystals shields the ground from some of the sun's energy. At night, the layer of ice crystals prevents some of Earth's heat from dissipating into the vacuum. Without the contrails, the daytime temperature would be slightly higher and the nighttime temperature would be slightly lower, creating the increased range between lowest and highest temperatures.


[link to www.sciencedaily.com]

i first heard about them while looking for videos about the place I used to live, Golden Valley, AZ. I came across a lot of videos about chemtrails there and barium levels both on the ground and blood levels. I lived there for many years and now wonder, if true, what impact it may have had on my health. Of course I now live closer to Fukushima fallout so who knows!"

Thanks! I appreciate you participation. . . .

I wonder what happens when this fix isn't enough? Not being contrary, it just crossed my mind.