Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

Where is this rock-encrusted handle?

No offense, George, but I've seen a lot of anecdotal stories like this, but I've never seen the object in question. I am NOT calling you a liar. I believe you saw what you've described to us -- but I do believe that until the object is analyzed properly, what you saw and what it acutally is might not be the same thing.

Again, I'm not accusing you of perfidy. I'm just suggesting that appearances can be deceiving.

I make mistakes too. For instance, I last made one back in 1983. Imagine my chagrin.

George also seems to think that because there may be
validity to UFO claims, as many of us debunkers believe,
that makes Nancy's claims more palatable.

It doesn't


No I don't . . . I think the UFO claims are just one piece of the puzzle. There are tons of issues within an entire universe of questions. I have stated and will contend that I don't see anyone addressing such a range of subjects. Nancy being one person and ZetaTalk being one blog that I have found to date that has the audacity or stupidity to address such a breadth of issues in one context.
I don't think she has the education or experience to address such an arena (and according to the debunkers she has not always done such a good job) however, she is good at seizing grey areas of political and human endeavor to comment on. Many times her political orientation reveals her weaknesses. She allows her emotions to overcome her logic and it is clear to the reader she is not communication a telepathic message but her opinion.
Also, she has seized upon a perfect con . . . the Zetas are telepathically communicating with me and sometimes I don't understand. Perfect . . . if ever she makes a mistake automatic cover.
I guess I have some sympathy for her followers . . . I don't think they are all nuts. I think many of them are just searching for answers without many places to go.
I sometime find myself wanting simple answers as well . . . Nancy and her like give simple answers . . . the reality is simple answers are alas only for the simple minded.

Yeah, but Nancy says that SHE, along with many others, DID see it and she has lots of imgages she says are of PX "PROVING" it actually arrived. Doh!

PostScript:

Another thought,
An alternative to checking old images, would be for new coordinates to be publicly provided and imaged.

I'm sure the Astronomic community would be happy to look, and prove the veracity of her recent statements.
Regards
JWD

Except that Nancy believes that all astronomers are under a gag order to cover up the existence of Planet X, including amateurs and back yard enthusiasts. The only way she would give an astronomer any credence would be if they said that her Planet X did exist. Otherwise, they are part of a dark conspiracy. All of them. Everywhere. Hap has offered his equipment to anyone willing to take him up on his offer. Just think how great it would be for Nancy if PX were to be found and photographed on the equipment of a known debunker! Win win situation, I would say, but none of them ever do. They say it is too expensive to travel to Hap's place. I would think they could take up a collection and send a trusted representative. How expensive is a bus ticket? Hell, I would even chip in with a donation so we can settle this once and for all.

Yeah, but Nancy says that SHE, along with many others, DID see it and she has lots of imgages she says are of PX "PROVING" it actually arrived. Doh!




PostScript:

Another thought,

An alternative to checking old images, would be for new coordinates to be publicly provided and imaged.

I'm sure the Astronomic community would be happy to look, and prove the veracity of her recent statements.


Regards
JWD

Making new images available for study by any and all would end this charade from pre 2003. Images were provided in 2002.

It IS time to "put up or shut up"

Coordinates need to be given and images taken.

If those coordinates are not forthcoming, what credence should anyone give to the further statements of Nancy Leider?

Regards
JWD

I have no explanation for your hammer handle, George. I would bet that if it were to be analysed, an explanation would be found, but without analysis, well, all we can do is guess.

Rumor has it that Nancy is preparing for her eventual retirement and is searching for a replacement. Apparently, there's going to be a contest. Each member will pull a Starburst fruit chew out of a hat. Whoever gets the one without a wrapper becomes the new emissary.

George, what do YOU believe? Do YOU see any truth in any of Nancy's claims?



You have to understand that I only discovered ZetaTalk about five months ago and GPL only a little over a month ago. For about a year I was doing an extensive review of many of the other sites regarding Extinction Level Events (ELEs) and Exopolitics and was trying to make sense of them all. I was just really digging into the debunking of the theories when I stumbled across ZetaTalk. Nancy on first glance has a neat bundle of theories to answer many questions. The problem was they were in areas I had no true knowledge of so I was looking for experts to answer some of the questions. My feeling now is expressed in an email . . . see below:

To answer your second question I have read and seen much of what Marshall Masters has presented. I have not read the 2012 Survival Guide but have read other similar works. He seems very thorough, logical and optimistic when it comes to human potential. He however is quite successful selling his products . . . something to always remember. There is some controversy over the authenticity of the Kolbrin Bible which he is the prime promoter of.

My conclusions have changed a bit since we last talked. The lady Nancy Leider of Zeta Talk [link to www.zetatalk.com] I have found to be unreliable. She I think could be a whack job. When one investigates the highly technical side of Orbital Mechanics, Astronomy and Physics you find much of her factual data is suspect. Her supporters I feel have been taken over by a frenzy to prove her philosophy in spite of conventional wisdom . . . because it makes a lot of sense at an intuitive level . I found many of the technical people who first supported her early on have abandoned her and are trying to debunk her positions. She has an interesting bundle of answers for most questions; however, she is not restrained by conventional science or logic and publishes quasi-scientific theory which when measured against known data doesn't stand the test of truth. However, this is not easily detected unless your are a competent expert in the areas of Astronomy, etc. The photos of the second sun and SOHO photos are very explainable by experts who have convinced me she is using the grey area of science and digital photography peculiarities (i.e. digital noise, etc.). to her benefit.

In general many people within the Disclosure and Exopolitics (UFO) communities end up at odd with each other . . . either by design or by nature. They somehow find their previous friends to be tainted by some unacceptable theory or finding they themselves can not accept. Either their positions are truly unsupportable or there are individuals and or organizations in the business of discrediting them . . . or a combination of the two. The truth is very, very hard to discern.

The same may be true of much of the 2012 movement. People looking for answers and finding plausible and intriguing connections which may be only wishful thinking in the final analysis. To complicate the situation few people in the know trust NASA or the U.S. government and don't trust anything they say because of their history of misinformation, etc. So to verify anything through NASA is usually a waste of time and effort. My feeling is listen and learn from a broad range of sources and weigh their positions against sound logic. Always remember that may people are motivated by money and fame and the truth sometimes is way down their list of priorities. I have always found that the truth between vastly opposing positions in science, business, management, etc. is always somewhere in the middle. So I expect the same may be true here. The only thing I am willing to bet on is that we don't know the real truth!

Yeah, but Nancy says that SHE, along with many others, DID see it and she has lots of imgages she says are of PX "PROVING" it actually arrived. Doh!

PostScript:

Another thought,
An alternative to checking old images, would be for new coordinates to be publicly provided and imaged.

I'm sure the Astronomic community would be happy to look, and prove the veracity of her recent statements.
Regards
JWD

Except that Nancy believes that all astronomers are under a gag order to cover up the existence of Planet X, including amateurs and back yard enthusiasts. The only way she would give an astronomer any credence would be if they said that her Planet X did exist. Otherwise, they are part of a dark conspiracy. All of them. Everywhere. Hap has offered his equipment to anyone willing to take him up on his offer. Just think how great it would be for Nancy if PX were to be found and photographed on the equipment of a known debunker! Win win situation, I would say, but none of them ever do. They say it is too expensive to travel to Hap's place. I would think they could take up a collection and send a trusted representative. How expensive is a bus ticket? Hell, I would even chip in with a donation so we can settle this once and for all.


Making new images available for study by any and all would end this charade from pre 2003. Images were provided in 2002.

It IS time to "put up or shut up"

Coordinates need to be given and images taken.

If those coordinates are not forthcoming, what credence should anyone give to the further statements of Nancy Leider?

Regards
JWD

Do you realize how STUPID you sound???

If she'll give coordinates, I'll be happy to take the images.

George, what do YOU believe? Do YOU see any truth in any of Nancy's claims?



You have to understand that I only discovered ZetaTalk about five months ago and GPL only a little over a month ago. For about a year I was doing an extensive review of many of the other sites regarding Extinction Level Events (ELEs) and Exopolitics and was trying to make sense of them all. I was just really digging into the debunking of the theories when I stumbled across ZetaTalk. Nancy on first glance has a neat bundle of theories to answer many questions. The problem was they were in areas I had no true knowledge of so I was looking for experts to answer some of the questions. My feeling now is expressed in an email . . . see below:

To answer your second question I have read and seen much of what Marshall Masters has presented. I have not read the 2012 Survival Guide but have read other similar works. He seems very thorough, logical and optimistic when it comes to human potential. He however is quite successful selling his products . . . something to always remember. There is some controversy over the authenticity of the Kolbrin Bible which he is the prime promoter of.

My conclusions have changed a bit since we last talked. The lady Nancy Leider of Zeta Talk [link to www.zetatalk.com] I have found to be unreliable. She I think could be a whack job. When one investigates the highly technical side of Orbital Mechanics, Astronomy and Physics you find much of her factual data is suspect. Her supporters I feel have been taken over by a frenzy to prove her philosophy in spite of conventional wisdom . . . because it makes a lot of sense at an intuitive level . I found many of the technical people who first supported her early on have abandoned her and are trying to debunk her positions. She has an interesting bundle of answers for most questions; however, she is not restrained by conventional science or logic and publishes quasi-scientific theory which when measured against known data doesn't stand the test of truth. However, this is not easily detected unless your are a competent expert in the areas of Astronomy, etc. The photos of the second sun and SOHO photos are very explainable by experts who have convinced me she is using the grey area of science and digital photography peculiarities (i.e. digital noise, etc.). to her benefit.

In general many people within the Disclosure and Exopolitics (UFO) communities end up at odd with each other . . . either by design or by nature. They somehow find their previous friends to be tainted by some unacceptable theory or finding they themselves can not accept. Either their positions are truly unsupportable or there are individuals and or organizations in the business of discrediting them . . . or a combination of the two. The truth is very, very hard to discern.

The same may be true of much of the 2012 movement. People looking for answers and finding plausible and intriguing connections which may be only wishful thinking in the final analysis. To complicate the situation few people in the know trust NASA or the U.S. government and don't trust anything they say because of their history of misinformation, etc. So to verify anything through NASA is usually a waste of time and effort. My feeling is listen and learn from a broad range of sources and weigh their positions against sound logic. Always remember that may people are motivated by money and fame and the truth sometimes is way down their list of priorities. I have always found that the truth between vastly opposing positions in science, business, management, etc. is always somewhere in the middle. So I expect the same may be true here. The only thing I am willing to bet on is that we don't know the real truth!


It's good to know that you are thinking for yourself and not automatically falling for Nancy's foolishness. BTW, I am quite deep into astronomy and astrophotography (you can see some of my work at www.machunter.org/hapspics.html) so please feel free to ask about any questions you have in that area. I can assure you that NONE of her astronomical claims or predictions are in any way factual.

Please comment about the Video regarding the high Resolution photo from ESA. I can send the photo to you if you will email me through GLP or just comment on your feeling of the ground clutter in the Hale Creator. I would greatly appreciate your input!

Please comment about the Video regarding the high Resolution photo from ESA. I can send the photo to you if you will email me through GLP or just comment on your feeling of the ground clutter in the Hale Creator. I would greatly appreciate your input!



George...after having done astronomical photoprocessing for the past ten years, I can without any doubt at all tell you that those are photographic artifacts. AFter you have changed the brightness and contrast and zoomed in to the nth degree on a JPEG image, which is highly compressed to begin with, it's no doubt that you will see artifacts that have geometric shapes and sharp edges. After all, the picture is made of square pixels! When you zoom in like that, you end up with all sorts of interference and beat patterns that are not really in the image. Try it with most any JPEG image.

Besides...if NASA or the ESA, both with budgets being slashed nowdays, had an image that actually showed what you think that one shows, don't you think they would use it to gain funding for a crash program to send more probes and landers to Mars to closer investigate rather than just having it sitting in a group of images in a web page? It would be the sensation of the century and front page news everywhere! If they, on the other hand, were trying to hide it, why is it on a public web site in plain view of everyone?

Again, use your power of reasoning rather than following an internet kook on You-Tube.

6000 posts or 200 pages. Which will come first?

Please comment about the Video regarding the high Resolution photo from ESA. I can send the photo to you if you will email me through GLP or just comment on your feeling of the ground clutter in the Hale Creator. I would greatly appreciate your input!



George...after having done astronomical photoprocessing for the past ten years, I can without any doubt at all tell you that those are photographic artifacts. AFter you have changed the brightness and contrast and zoomed in to the nth degree on a JPEG image, which is highly compressed to begin with, it's no doubt that you will see artifacts that have geometric shapes and sharp edges. After all, the picture is made of square pixels! When you zoom in like that, you end up with all sorts of interference and beat patterns that are not really in the image. Try it with most any JPEG image.

Besides...if NASA or the ESA, both with budgets being slashed nowdays, had an image that actually showed what you think that one shows, don't you think they would use it to gain funding for a crash program to send more probes and landers to Mars to closer investigate rather than just having it sitting in a group of images in a web page? It would be the sensation of the century and front page news everywhere! If they, on the other hand, were trying to hide it, why is it on a public web site in plain view of everyone?

Again, use your power of reasoning rather than following an internet kook on You-Tube.


Thanks for your comments . . . are you familiar with NASA Photograph NASA Photo PIA 10214. In the far left lower quadrant there is an artifact that resembles a statue. Any comments? At regular resolution it is only a speck . . . if you follow the plateau rim from the right to the extreme left there is a small speck . . . enlarge about 200% and you will see it. Thanks.

The real ***ZetaMax***: A history of hypocrisy.

4#Here is a quote from 88145..."No, actually it is the other way around. Nancy has said on several occasions that px would be here "long before 2012". Every day that passes with no sign of px is a defeat for you bunkers. All we have to do is sit back and wait and we shall see who is right.
BTW, when would you say "long before 2012" is?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 88145

Then comes the reply from ZetaMax to 88145...

"NOWHERE IN ZETATALK HAS IT BEEN STATED "LONG BEFORE" - THAT IS LIE."
***ZetaMax*** 8/4/2007.
Thread: Minneapolis Bridge Collapse - the Zetas Explain (Page 9)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Well well look who just got caught in a straight out lie. Melfy has just been outed by Zetatalk itself as Ms LIEDer reiterates her very own original phrase pertaining to her rogue planet arriving well(long)before the year 2012....as it is too far out. (This is from January 2009 but I will dig out examples of where Nancy used this exact phrase in SOZT....EOZT prior to ZetaMax claiming otherwise). "Long before" and "too far out" in this instance have exactly the same meaning.

[link to www.zetatalk.com]
Question posed to Nancy...Ok, I dont get any of this, but I find it intriquing. Is this Zeta person from the planet of Zeta Reticuli? Is this person a higher being? Is this being channeled or is it real contact and Q&A? What is its ('their') full take on the 2012 buzz?

Nancy's answer...Please read the ZetaTalk.com website, as it is placed there for your edification. Nancy is a contactee, not an alien. We are from Zeta Reticuli. Nancy is in telepathic contact with us, and is not a channel. 2012 is the current establishment approved date, as it is too far out and will keep the public in their jobs until the last weeks, allowing the elite to escape to their bunkers without the mess of the public clogging the roadways.
-------------------------------------------------------

Yet another example of ZetaMax trying to defend the mythical integrity of Nancy/zetatalk with total misinformation. In this case Nancy herself provides damaging evidence against ZetaMax. Quite ironic.

Fence Sitting Test 4# = FAIL!!

Dude, "too far out" in no way equates to "long before". The word "too" is NOT a synomyn or even an antonym of the word "long". I don't know where you got your Anglisch, must have been loyned from them pygmies. BOI!!!

Dude, "too far out" in no way equates to "long before". The word "too" is NOT a synomyn or even an antonym of the word "long". I don't know where you got your Anglisch, must have been loyned from them pygmies. BOI!!!

Dude, "too far out" in no way equates to "long before". The word "too" is NOT a synomyn or even an antonym of the word "long". I don't know where you got your Anglisch, must have been loyned from them pygmies. BOI!!!


[link to www.zetatalk.com]

"per the Zetas the shift will happen before 2012"

[link to www.zetatalk.com]

"We have stated that the pole shift will occur before 2012"

[link to www.zetatalk.com]

"The pole shift will happen before 2012"

Tick, tock, tick, tock......

Zetas Wrong Again!

Uhhmmm, last I looked, it was still 2009!!!

Uhhmmm, last I looked, it was still 2009!!!

:idyut:

Posted for posterity.

Posted originally at

Thread: ZetaTalk LIVE Chat October 3 (Page 6)

Edited to include missing portion.


Nancy, you keep telling us that your imaging team imaged planet x back in 2003. However, JW Dell, who was your imaging expert, is over on the debunker thread saying that nothing was imaged. What do you say?

NancyTalk: last topic on this page.
[link to www.zetatalk.com]
2003 was a shock to all who were staunch ZetaTalk fans, including Nancy herself.



The alleged source of those predictions did not prove their own existence by providing co-ordinates of its inbound journey, its arrival in the Solar System, and its closest passage to earth at the dates specified. Nothing has happened then or since to support these (the Zetas) statements.

Considering that 8 years of telling the world that it absolutely, positively will cause a pole shift on Planet Earth in May 2003, the predictions of the Planet X arrival in May 2003 is a failure of epic proportions.




Our statement then was that those who took steps to move to a safer location, or to gather supplies and educate themselves, would not regret this. When we are at the cusp of having earthquakes of greater magnitude, larger tides swamping the coastlines, and increasing crop shortages driving up the cost or availability of food, our words ring true.


And we continue to have earthquakes, tides and crop shortages. All can be attributed to other causes rather than Planet X.


Those individuals who were embarrassed by the failure of Planet X to pass,


Including those like me who were embarrassed by being gullible enough to believe this story.



even though it arrived as we predicted,


No, it did not arrive as predicted. If you disagree with my statement, provide the present coordinates of PX and perhaps we will get to the truth of this matter.



and with great accuracy on the RA and Dec of where it could be located during the inbound flight,


If it did not show up in May 2003 on its Zeta provided and projected trajectory, then it was not imaged during the time it was inbound. You can't have it both ways unless this planet mysteriously vanished.

No visual sighting of PX in May 2003 = no telescope imaging in 2002/2003
If it isn't there at the end date, it wasn't there before.


defended themselves in some cases by denying all, and in particular denying their part.


I don't deny my part in this, and I am getting over the embarrassment of having been involved. I wouldn't wish this on anyone else, so I will warn others away from this failed prediction.


This in no way changes the facts, which are of record.


Earth's record for the past 6 years speaks volumes to the "facts"



It is a reflection on the individual's ability to adhere to the truth, regardless of perceived damage to personal self image.


My desire to adhere to the truth motivated me to speak out when presented with an opportunity. In doing this I preserve my self-image.

Any damage to my self-image and credibility occurred with the non-appearance of PX in 2003. And unlike others, I will not resort to lies of any colour to cover up my mistakes.

J.William Dell