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Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

 
VestanPance

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03/19/2010 05:46 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
lol there is nothing Mature in the droolings on a senile old lady who claims the earth is halted in its orbit.


You know what, VP? Of all the ridiculous astronomical claims that Nancy had made over the years, and we know that there are some real bizarre ones, it is "the earth is halted in its orbit" dribble which is probably the most pathetic of the lot. And whenever I am reminded of it I just shake my head at how lacking in the powers of critical thinking are those fools that believe in such garbage.
 Quoting: The Lone Ranger

Yeah, I loved the part where the Zetans are rocking the planet to simulate the seasons...thats a good one.
Cheers.
-----------------------------
"Shit, if this is gonna be that kind of party, I'm going to stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

"The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine"

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
The Lone Ranger  (OP)

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03/19/2010 06:26 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
those are not clouds, freestore you knucklehead. its another dune rising up behind the horizon line in the pic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 828523


those are not clouds, freestore you knucklehead. its another dune rising up behind the horizon line in the pic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 828523

Thread: Clouds on the Moon? (Page 3)

I just couldn't help quoting a few more posts from Mr FrEaKy's moon thread that was pinned earlier today.

The Old Timer is good value for a laugh now and then. And even though annoying at times, and mind you Mr FrEaKy has been acting like this from when he first came to GLP, I do feel a little compassion at the dude's obviously lack of "brain" power.
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
The Lone Ranger  (OP)

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03/19/2010 06:40 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yeah, I loved the part where the Zetans are rocking the planet to simulate the seasons...thats a good one.
 Quoting: VestanPance


lol4me Exactly, VP. And when that "zeta simulation of the seasons" first came out from Ms LIEDer I thought geez surely these bizarre and totally bogus claims will cause many of zetatalk's loyal and staunch believers to finally get a clue.

Every year that I watch the four seasons unfold here in New Zealand is yet another year that I get to have some great entertainment by mocking these zetaculties.
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
VestanPance

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03/19/2010 06:44 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yeah, I loved the part where the Zetans are rocking the planet to simulate the seasons...thats a good one.


lol4me Exactly, VP. And when that "zeta simulation of the seasons" first came out from Ms LIEDer I thought geez surely these bizarre and totally bogus claims will cause many of zetatalk's loyal and staunch believers to finally get a clue.

Every year that I watch the four seasons unfold here in New Zealand is yet another year that I get to have some great entertainment by mocking these zetaculties.
 Quoting: The Lone Ranger

lol I know. I feel pity for them sometimes, misled by a dog murdering, batshit crazy old lady. I feel more pity for the Zeta believers than I do for Amber/MommyOF2/Ambernon lol
Cheers.
-----------------------------
"Shit, if this is gonna be that kind of party, I'm going to stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

"The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine"

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
The Lone Ranger  (OP)

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03/19/2010 07:08 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I feel more pity for the Zeta believers than I do for Amber/MommyOF2/Ambernon lol
 Quoting: VestanPance


Having myself interacted with Amber I would have to agree with you. Especially with Amber's arrogance in so many ways.
Even though it is only an assertion on my part I do believe that Amber is affected by some type of real mental illness. I mean her very bizarre behaviour alone, apart from her pathetic pushing of her silly earthquake prediction theory, went beyond the normal ramblings of a typical woowoo on GLP, Imo.

Last Edited by The Lone Ranger on 03/19/2010 07:10 PM
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
VestanPance

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03/19/2010 07:14 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I feel more pity for the Zeta believers than I do for Amber/MommyOF2/Ambernon lol


Having myself interacted with Amber I would have to agree with you. Especially with Amber's arrogance in so many ways.
Even though it is only an assertion on my part I do believe that Amber is affected by some type of real mental illness. I mean her very bizarre behaviour alone, apart from her pathetic pushing of her silly earthquake prediction theory, went beyond the normal ramblings of a typical woowoo on GLP, Imo.
 Quoting: The Lone Ranger

I dont know about mental health, lack of intelligence though clearly yes :)

Her last prediction was originally for the 18th...well since its now the 19th (nearly the 20th) its a clear fail on her part, sadly when reminded of that she said she had "Extended" her prediction to cover the extra day...remind you of anyone?? Reminded me of Nancy and her "Soon" predictions lol.

Amber doesnt like it when you question her and present real FACT, I suppose that goes for anyone who is claiming to be able to predict natural disasters, but her objections go much further than normal, the way she keeps saying she wont respond to critics but continues to do so screams of attention whore. Ill be fair to her here though, ive been pretty mean spirited towards her and not exactly pleasant either.
Cheers.
-----------------------------
"Shit, if this is gonna be that kind of party, I'm going to stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

"The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine"

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
The Lone Ranger  (OP)

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03/19/2010 07:36 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Her last prediction was originally for the 18th...well since its now the 19th (nearly the 20th) its a clear fail on her part, sadly when reminded of that she said she had "Extended" her prediction to cover the extra day...remind you of anyone?? Reminded me of Nancy and her "Soon" predictions lol.
 Quoting: VestanPance


LOL!!

Similar to Amber's "Extended" stay on GLP after saying, I think MO said it was like 5 times or something, that she was going to leave GLP and find a place where people accepted her earthquake prediction theory with no questions asked. Lol!! Amber whinged and bitched about GLPers being so mean to her etc when it was Amber herself who started all the shit and then proceeded to make several threads attacking others.

Anyway I consider it a GLP P R I C E L E S S !! scenario the way Amber has done a "180" and decided to "Extend" her stay here despite everything she had said previously when attacking GLP .
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
***ZetaMax***

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03/19/2010 09:46 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yeah, I loved the part where the Zetans are rocking the planet to simulate the seasons...thats a good one.


lol4me Exactly, VP. And when that "zeta simulation of the seasons" first came out from Ms LIEDer I thought geez surely these bizarre and totally bogus claims will cause many of zetatalk's loyal and staunch believers to finally get a clue.

Every year that I watch the four seasons unfold here in New Zealand is yet another year that I get to have some great entertainment by mocking these zetaculties.
 Quoting: The Lone Ranger


Uhh, **SIMULATED** seasons would indeed look, act and FEEL like the REAL THING!!!


_doof_us
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
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03/19/2010 09:58 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yeah, I loved the part where the Zetans are rocking the planet to simulate the seasons...thats a good one.


:lol4me: Exactly, VP. And when that "zeta simulation of the seasons" first came out from Ms LIEDer I thought geez surely these bizarre and totally bogus claims will cause many of zetatalk's loyal and staunch believers to finally get a clue.

Every year that I watch the four seasons unfold here in New Zealand is yet another year that I get to have some great entertainment by mocking these zetaculties.


Uhh, **SIMULATED** seasons would indeed look, act and FEEL like the REAL THING!!!



 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


No they wouldn't.

Obviously, you can't visualize the obvious effects tilting the Earth to simulate seasons would have on the night sky.

To simulate spring in the northern hemisphere where Nancy says the Earth is halted in the August/September position would require tilting the earth 46 degrees on it's axis.
***ZetaMax***

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03/19/2010 10:19 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Yeah, I loved the part where the Zetans are rocking the planet to simulate the seasons...thats a good one.


lol4me Exactly, VP. And when that "zeta simulation of the seasons" first came out from Ms LIEDer I thought geez surely these bizarre and totally bogus claims will cause many of zetatalk's loyal and staunch believers to finally get a clue.

Every year that I watch the four seasons unfold here in New Zealand is yet another year that I get to have some great entertainment by mocking these zetaculties.


Uhh, **SIMULATED** seasons would indeed look, act and FEEL like the REAL THING!!!





No they wouldn't.

Obviously, you can't visualize the obvious effects tilting the Earth to simulate seasons would have on the night sky.

To simulate spring in the northern hemisphere where Nancy says the Earth is halted in the August/September position would require tilting the earth 46 degrees on it's axis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 896329



And your point is???

mark_miss
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
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03/19/2010 10:28 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And your point is???

 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

That you are wrong in your belief, plain flat out wrong.

It is not possible to tilt the earth 46 degrees to simulate seasons, while simultaneously keeping the constellations correct in the sky.
Circuit Breaker

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03/19/2010 10:42 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
It ain't my name on the tombstone!

tombgrave
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

Nor is it any of ours.
sinking
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
Circuit Breaker

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03/19/2010 10:45 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And your point is???

mark_miss
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

You and your master are wrong.


zwrong2
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
***ZetaMax***

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03/19/2010 10:51 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And your point is???

mark_miss

You and your master are wrong.


zwrong2
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker

Not if you consider the possibility of SCREEN MEMORIES.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
The Lone Ranger  (OP)

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03/19/2010 11:46 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Uhh, **SIMULATED** seasons would indeed look, act and FEEL like the REAL THING!!!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Ah, that would be because the seasons ARE the REAL THING

_doof_us
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
The Lone Ranger  (OP)

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03/19/2010 11:53 PM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Not if you consider the possibility of SCREEN MEMORIES.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


wtf Do you think we are at the Oscars or something!!

dufos
Life Is But A Dream!!
Therefore, "'Tis better to have dreamed and lost than never to have dreamed at all."
------------------------------------
Disclaimer:

DON'T​ BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS THREAD!....USE DISCERNMENT!!
Anonymous Coward
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03/20/2010 12:21 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Not if you consider the possibility of SCREEN MEMORIES.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


But, if you do that, you may as well go all the way to solipsism. You are naught but a brain in a jar, you are the ONLY real thing in your whole reality, and everything else is just holographic data fed to you.

Since this assertion is neither provable, nor disprovable, we should (in science, anyway) discard it. It is a hypothesis that is untestable, and adds nothing to our understanding reality.

Likewise, your idea regarding 'screen memories' is similarly untestable. If we can trust nothing of our senses, then what's the point of seeking answers to anything? By what tools are answers even seekable?

Thus, unless you have a falsifiable way of TESTING your idea of 'screen memories,' it would seem an unnecessary complication to what is actually observed, and the idea itself, explains nothing.

Therefore, I would suggest that a far more likely scenario is simply that Nancy is utterly wrong about how the heavens move, and that fact largely invalidates the rest of her claims regarding the Zetas, including their very existence.
tater

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Not if you consider the possibility of SCREEN MEMORIES.


But, if you do that, you may as well go all the way to solipsism. You are naught but a brain in a jar, you are the ONLY real thing in your whole reality, and everything else is just holographic data fed to you.

Since this assertion is neither provable, nor disprovable, we should (in science, anyway) discard it. It is a hypothesis that is untestable, and adds nothing to our understanding reality.

Likewise, your idea regarding 'screen memories' is similarly untestable. If we can trust nothing of our senses, then what's the point of seeking answers to anything? By what tools are answers even seekable?

Thus, unless you have a falsifiable way of TESTING your idea of 'screen memories,' it would seem an unnecessary complication to what is actually observed, and the idea itself, explains nothing.

Therefore, I would suggest that a far more likely scenario is simply that Nancy is utterly wrong about how the heavens move, and that fact largely invalidates the rest of her claims regarding the Zetas, including their very existence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74444


So many good points, one of the better assertions towards common sense and reality as we perceive it. Anything else is only speculation.

It certainly is interesting how perception plays a big part of a belief system. There truly is no end to what a crazy mind can do; especially when it come to a religion such as zetacult.

The belief might seem good and cool and all that to some, but the reality is not supporting the failed cult. Simple really.

It's like,,, a train wreak that happened back in 2003 and the people still on that POS train, can't seem to get off.

Sucks to be a zetacultie.
Prof_Rabbit

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03/20/2010 01:47 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I find the arguments in the book INTERESTING - even compelling.

But ... I remain ON THE FENCE.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


Of course you would, anyone who could swallow Nancy's delusional ravings would swallow anything.

As for the fence, well you can't very well get off something that is up your ass.
"Anger is a wind that blows out the lamp of your mind"
The Commentator

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Not if you consider the possibility of SCREEN MEMORIES.

You might as well invoke Kurt Vonnegut's time tripping.
 Quoting: DrPostman



LIEDer is no Montana Wildhack! ;-)
non sufficit Orbis

Being a zetatard means never having to make sense.

"Nancy pays me to post on Her threads"

Free Store admits to being a paid zetadrool shill

NO max/bridget EVER!!!!!
NO luser EVER!!!
NO clunker EVER!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Big_smile Very good posting. I can assume then that at given times your life must be a living hell with all these things happening!!
 Quoting: The Lone Ranger



I want to know more about gang stalking.

I'm just not mentally prepared yet :) I'm still recuperating from finding out about Mind Control.

And if I make the mistake of mentioning one more thing I've read on this crazy site to my wife I'm going to be sleeping in the yard.
Circuit Breaker

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Not if you consider the possibility of SCREEN MEMORIES.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

Why should I consider that possibility? It's highly unlikely and there isn't any evidence to suggest that such a thing is taking place...or that the "Zetas" even exist in the first place.

Weak, Max...very weak.

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 03/20/2010 07:47 AM
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Prof_Rabbit

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
And if I make the mistake of mentioning one more thing I've read on this crazy site to my wife I'm going to be sleeping in the yard.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017


Just tell her it's entertaining reading just how delusional people can be, especially when there is an audience, you only have to visit the "ning" to see how they feed off one another.
"Anger is a wind that blows out the lamp of your mind"
***ZetaMax***

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03/20/2010 08:54 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Not if you consider the possibility of SCREEN MEMORIES.

Why should I consider that possibility? It's highly unlikely and there isn't any evidence to suggest that such a thing is taking place...or that the "Zetas" even exist in the first place.

Weak, Max...very weak.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


But for "FENCE SITTER" - weak is GOOD ENOUGH!
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
VestanPance

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03/20/2010 09:00 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
Not if you consider the possibility of SCREEN MEMORIES.

Why should I consider that possibility? It's highly unlikely and there isn't any evidence to suggest that such a thing is taking place...or that the "Zetas" even exist in the first place.

Weak, Max...very weak.


But for "FENCE SITTER" - weak is GOOD ENOUGH!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

I think once maybe long ago you were a fence sitter, but you fell off it into Nancy's garden and have been living there ever since.
Cheers.
-----------------------------
"Shit, if this is gonna be that kind of party, I'm going to stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

"The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine"

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
Circuit Breaker

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03/20/2010 09:02 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But for "FENCE SITTER" - weak is GOOD ENOUGH!
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

Perhaps...IF you were really a "fence sitter."
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
***ZetaMax***

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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
But for "FENCE SITTER" - weak is GOOD ENOUGH!

Perhaps...IF you were really a "fence sitter."
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker

If I am not a "fence sitter", then I must be a liar ... Are you "good" with that?
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
Circuit Breaker

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03/20/2010 10:39 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If I am not a "fence sitter", then I must be a liar ... Are you "good" with that?
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***

Well, I could say you are on some issues...such as your many claims about Alaska. Mostly because you never came back and presented the evidence you said you were going to. There are only a few reasons why that might be. 1) You heard those claims from someone else (i.e. Nancy Lieder), repeated them but then couldn't find anything to support them. 2) You read it somewhere, repeated it here but then found, on closer examination, that what you claimed and what you read weren't exactly the same thing or it didn't quite support what you said. In either case, that wouldn't make you a liar per se...only the perpetrator of a lie. Unless you knew it was a lie when you repeated it.
A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos.
***ZetaMax***

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03/20/2010 10:57 AM
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
If I am not a "fence sitter", then I must be a liar ... Are you "good" with that?

Well, I could say you are on some issues...such as your many claims about Alaska. Mostly because you never came back and presented the evidence you said you were going to. There are only a few reasons why that might be. 1) You heard those claims from someone else (i.e. Nancy Lieder), repeated them but then couldn't find anything to support them. 2) You read it somewhere, repeated it here but then found, on closer examination, that what you claimed and what you read weren't exactly the same thing or it didn't quite support what you said. In either case, that wouldn't make you a liar per se...only the perpetrator of a lie. Unless you knew it was a lie when you repeated it.
 Quoting: Circuit Breaker


I decided it would be too RISKY to share the information. It is highly sensitive.
The best advice we can give on this matter is to read with your heart as well as your mind. Follow the flow, let the nuances lie unanswered and unchallenged in your mind. Treat this as a garden you are walking through for the first time, and experience it fully without trying to categorize it! Much of what you will learn will be processed in your subconscious, and influence your conscious mind later. If you must dissect each phrase, and correlate it with each piece of information taken from another source, you will trash much of what you could otherwise gain. Live in the gray, not always insisting on black and white and strict compartmentalizations.

ZetaTalk: Oahspe Note: written Apr 15, 1997.
 [link to www.zetatalk.com] 

ZetaMax
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Re: Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!
I decided it would be too RISKY to share the information. It is highly sensitive.
 Quoting: ***ZetaMax***


bsflag

How did you get the information in the first place? You claimed it was all out there in books. My conclusion is you're now lying.

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 03/20/2010 11:38 AM
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