Book Of Enoch, Applied To These Latter Days.

I never read/listen to T.D. Jake anymore, but because you ask, I did listen to the 4 minutes you specified.


Simply believing you are one of those chosen few doesn't necessarily manifest a reasonable conclusion just because a preacher says so. There are many factors involved in a truly faithful belief. Regardless of Jake's preaching, of course, many can receive in their spirits (actually though its in their soul, mind, emotions in those cases) a belief of the same calling. If not so, then only one individual would believe he has received that calling alone in his spirit, and none other received that information, as Jake believes. Yet, it is factual, tens of thousands in our times truly believe (in their spirit, as Jake claims,) they are chosen by the Spirit (Holy Spirit, as Jake claims,) to be of a particular calling, in your case..Elijah.

Therefore, under reasonable conclusions if Jake's statement was correct all those other claims/beliefs are deceptions from another spirit, either their own, or another entity/spirit not of God. Why would this be so? Because if Jake's statement was true and only that one individual of the true calling knew so in their spirit then no others would also be making the same claim. For it is only that one's calling, as Jake preaches. How then can many others believe the same calling is for their lives also. believing as you that it is a witness to their spirit.

Nevertheless, manner factors are involved in faith claims and the manifestation of that claim. Usually one of many testimonies of the truth one believes is promised to him, is the witness/testimony of three or more witnesses. And that is just a small portion of one factor involved to know for sure of that one's spirit receiving from the Spirit (Holy Spirit) the truth of that particular promise.

For in reality regardless of what any preacher tells you. Many are believing that they have been chosen by receiving thru their spirit (as stated by Jake) from his Spirit (Holy Spirit) the truth of that belief. Nevertheless, not all of those tens of thousands (believing the same as you,) can actually be hearing from their spirit (but are actually only hearing it from their souls, minds, emotions) and are believing it is their spirit's confirming this. Yet, in reality only one of those many thousands could be receiving the correct information from the true Spirit (Holt Spirit,) into their spirit of that individual and not just simply thru their soul, mind, emotions.

Otherwise we con reasonable conclude all those many thousands who also believe they are of that same calling are being deceived by their souls, minds, and it is not their spirit's revealing any such thing, but only their own mind/soul. For often the spirit of oneself and his/her soul are confusing factors in what determines the truth of which of these two different entities are actually speaking to us. In other-words it is either their own spirits given testimony of what they seek to obtain, or it is of another spirit (not of God,) witnessing to their spirit or their soul, that this false belief is true. For all other beliefs must be of a falsehood whether intentional or by deception on the enemies part. Contrary to Jake's preaching.

Of course many can (or so they think) have the same calling in their spirit (so they think,) but it is only the true chosen one, from the true Spirit to spirit commune that will be factual. That is how the complication of the same/many claims for the same position in God's service is so pervasive in these times. For many such believe they are that Elijah come forth, but only one may/can be. All others are being deceived unaware.

Must go for the rest of the day now. I have been informed that company is coming to spend the day.

Correct, and that Joseph spotted his brother, that other witness (Elijah,) in a distant land, almost 46 years ago. Nevertheless, as I said, believe as you will waterman. The truth of it all will become clear in God's timing.

Sorry but you haven't any concept of the hidden Joseph/ witness, and Judah has no connection with the other witness, Elijah.

As I said believe as you imagine, its spring time.

Yes he did. Anyone that actually studies it sees it.
Here's for starters:
[link to www.jesusplusnothing.com]
or why not:
[link to bible-codes.org]

and for the OPs stuff. The book of Enoch he has and all those we seem to have a bunch of heresies in them proving they are not the true book of Enoch:

[link to a-voice.org]
[link to jesus-is-savior.com]

so you should just toss it away, not get lead away into heresy by it. Check yourself OP.

Bump for later reading

you finally caught what I have been hinting to you for two days ( believe as you want, its spring.) I showed you this meaning of the dayspring statement in Job, 17 years ago. So the dayspring knows his place. Could this mean he (the dayspring) knows his exact place in the Lord, as that hidden witness..exactly yes, it does mean that! So if you want to know who the hidden witness is, he is the dayspring, and (the daysping) knows his place.

Nevertheless, you cannot understand the meaning because you cannot see someone who is hidden from your view, the hidden witness. This is what so amazes me.

Nevertheless as I again reiterate from previous post, believe as you want, its spring.

No one is seeking the greater blessings. The true witnesses seeks to glorify God, and promote His kingdom. You are always expressing who gets the blessing, and who is the greater of the two. This attitude verifies a wrongful revelation in understanding the purpose of the witnesses.

The two witnesses will seek to glorify God and to promote His kingdom, and take nothing into account of their importance or who receives the greater blessings, or most favor.

Nevertheless, if you desire to know the greater of the two witnesses it will be the one prepared to sit on the right side of the Lord in his kingdom. This would be the elder (Enoch) of the two witnesses (Enoch & Elijah.) So the hidden witness Enoch, who symbolizes Enoch/Jacob/Israel/prince/Ephraim (which Ephraim is symbolic of Israel,)/Moses, etc.) And that other witness symbolic of Elijah/Aaron/the coming messenger to the world.

The one that is surnamed as I first revealed it to you, and its meaning (as if you came up with the concept,) only applies to one individual Jacob/Israel/prince.) I could, and have talk/ed until I am blue in the face, but you will never listen, because you cannot see someone who is the chosen one, hidden one, and the one who is given many more flattering names and titles than the other.

So believe as you will. You will, and have not been the first to believe incorrectly toward seeking their own self promotion and importance. However such promoter of themselves always fail as previous history verifies.

There have always been many families in biblical times that is involve with more than one wife in a marriage. Nevertheless, there is only one first-born of the family unit, regardless of the number of children established in the household. So two first-born in a single family unit is not Biblical, as you seek to establish thru no proof.

Nevertheless, as I said previously, believe as you will. it doesn't lessen the position of the truth.

If you read the "accepted" Bible you may find several moments where angels appear as being having flesh, just them looking like you and me, very human-like, they can do this, is not prohibited, or a sin, because they are not really dressed with flesh, but is an appearance.

When Jesus transfigured himself his real spiritual being arises from his real flesh, that is totally different.

SO let say those fallen angels just dressed themselves as beautiful human males to attract the women. Once ancient women get tricked, angels really don't need to have a penis, if you carefully analyze it. They would need just sperm.

But, as you know once the spermatozoa enter the ovule is like adding the last missing piece of the puzzle, then it is like an explosion. It start a series of divisions and processes to the point the ovule is not more an ovule and the spermatozoa is not more an "individual". After the connection, they cannot work individually but as one evolving thing.

So the angels, neither need to have spermatozoa at all, but the information to start the process. So if they can materialize it, they can impregnated a woman.

Not even that set of codes have to be in a form of a spermatozoa. So by trying the overshadow - that is in part materializing their own spiritual DNA- (I forget to mention there is spiritual DNA as well, all things in the Universe, spiritual or material are unique and have also a kind of DNA, even DNA is not the correct term)

Once they materialize their essence, is like 3D printing a copy of themselves in a nano-scale materialized fake spermatozoa, But what they are 3D printing is not the entire themselves but a copy of their spiritual DNA. Very different to Jesus, Jesus materialized his entire himself into that Mary's Ovule.

So about the method in how that DNA reach the ovule, they could use their fake fingers to deposit their DNA into the ovule. They could even pour their DNA into an open wound of a woman and move it until reach an ovule. Not need for penetration at all. Of course, if they have fake flesh they can have a "fake" penis too. It could be as traditional sex, but I think they not use traditional method, even they are guided by a kind of "sexual" desire.

That's precisely why the Book of Enoch was so controversial and removed from the Bible canon, because the Church of those times, instead of consulting the Holy Spirit, start to analyze with their own mind, assuming impossible for angel to have a penis or maybe impregnate a woman by a wound-touch. If angels can do whatever they like it may look like God has no control over them. But they have free will as us.
And free will means they can disobey God, or do whatever they desire even they are not sure if it is bad or not. What they are subjected always is to consult God in all matters.
If they don't consult God then they immediately sin, and the sin keep growing until they loose their state. Eventually their loose also their dwelling. Or both at the same time.

SO keep in mind: Without all the science and the knowledge of genetic material on those days, anyone can found the Book of Enoch highly incredible, so they first call it a "Hidden" Book then a Prohibited one. Then they named it as Not inspired, impossible to be inspired!

But just remember, the part of Book of Enoch when God tell via Enoch to those angels:

Go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants as your sons And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.


Note that the verses never tell about angels having penis, or exactly doing a traditional intercourse on woman, not even trying to explain it or giving hints excepting the mention of the Blood. You say that when they left their dwelling they immediately become like us, flesh and spirit but that is simply not possible, because when they are chained because of their sin, a lil after, they are still angels, spiritual angels.

You must not confuse that group of fallen angels, with the other group commanded by Satan and by the other group of "evil spirits" or demons that are the disembodied spirits of the sons of the fallen angels that impregnated woman. They are 3 different entities.

Satan and their fallen angels are another story but share the same pre-good-angelic nature of the second group of fallen angels that sin with women. They also lose their dwelling, but they were allowed to come near the Throne of God to speak (they can't see God again just hear Him). Job's story is about that, precisely. Once Jesus ascended there is no place for any Fallen Angel commanded by Satan to ever reach one step of the Throne. That's why they are thrown back to Earth. When Jesus Ascended Satan and his angels Descended. Whatever Satan ask God to do in the future, he have to ask it before Jesus Ascend or will never be granted.

So Satan's angels are not demons, they are fallen angels. Demons or evil spirits are the spirits that remain in the earth from the Nephilim. And their fathers, the other group of Fallen Angels remain chained in special places inside the Earth.

What could be true, is that after they sin, their nature corrupted as well and maybe a skin-like flesh grow over like a bad leprosy over their spiritual bodies. Just because they mess with flesh, it could be.

When Jesus say:

I have given you authority to trample on Snakes and Scorpions and to overcome all the power of the Enemy; nothing will harm you.

He is talking about these two types of fallen angels: Serpents and Scorpions, not actually animals.
That's why He add: "to overcome the power of the Enemy"
Of course the Enemy is Satan, because the chained fallen angels (Scorpions) can't do anything over humans, as they are chained until the pit is opened in the end of times.
So when Satan exiled to Earth, they must gather the demons to strong their files. So right now in the Earth, freely moving are the Serpents (group of fallen angels that follow Satan) and the sons of the Scorpions, the demons. All working together commanded by Satan, that is the Old Serpent.

As you may notice, the supposedly re-writers of the Bible, after human intervention and so much philosophy mixed with rational thinking (instead of Holy Spirit' Guide to the Truth Easy System) they had un-capitalize the words serpents, scorpions, and even enemy as is where animals.

It make no sense Jesus giving us a power to trample serpents or scorpions as is where real spiritual enemies if they are just animals. That power could be even attained by experienced trainers. Not a real deal, as those animal can just bite, and could make someone death, but they are not real enemies, just animals.

So After Jesus we can now have power over both Serpents and Scorpions, and it is true that the Scorpions will not harm the people of God for the 5 month torture when they are released from the bottomless pit in the future.

The evil spirits, the spirits that remain on earth after the bodies of the Nephilim were destroyed, those spirits can posses more easily an human body, because they had body in the past before being death in the Deluge. Those evil spirits are not angels. They move around the Earth, and some of them group together in arid places, as Jesus noted, they are hungry for flesh because they have no flesh now.

They can take the appearance of whatever is human-animal-like mixed with angel, but not one or another. It could be as the same as the aliens grey of today, the only method to corroborate this, is to invoke the name of Christ and try to expelled it the same way as Jesus did. Only if you are with Christ, otherwise not recommended. :)

Wow! Aren't you important! I hate to be the one to inform you, but the I in the sentence..."I caused the dayspring to know his place".. is not speaking about you, but the "I" means God caused him to know his place!

Nevertheless, again anything God establishes or seeks to establish in my life it seems you either have to be involved as the principle member of the happening or you're there later to inform me the meaning of its purpose. Listen, the Lord and I had a fine communication before you came along and I differently didn't need you to tell me my position in the Lord or the meaning he meant for me to understand. He is far better of revealing my purpose and my position in him than you could ever comprehend!

Not everything involves/includes you in scripture, but your attitude is awful boastful, and very hubris. Believe as you will, but you will never convince someone who already has seen what is hidden from your understanding.

You are one who seems to follow the philosophy of either Hitler or Stalin (cant remember which.) "Tell a lie long enough and the people will begin to believe it, and the bigger the lie, the greater the belief."

I always find this classic to be very enlightening

[youtube] [link to youtu.be]

[link to youtu.be]

Sons of God, daughters of man, too

Sorry

Again your keen observation of the words spoken toward the edification of better spiritual evidence is pithy. I agree with and also acknowledge your belief of the three different spiritual manifestations, and the demons being the ramifications of the off-spring of the fallen angels.

However, my expression that the angels manifested an earthly/fleshly appearance was based on the statement in (Enoch IV. 86:4) "And behold they all let out their privy members like horses." Thus indicating they were in the form of flesh and did utilize a penis form of/in sexual intercourse.

Yet you also made a very excellent point that once they were transferred to their new location to be punished in chains. They were expressed as angels (spiritual beings) in chains, and not as fleshly beings imprisoned there. Therefore, I can only conclude that your perspective concerning these observations you presented are the correct ones most assuredly. They well could have been but spiritual beings appearing in fleshly form, but not of a permanent manifestation of those beings of flesh.

It is nice to read a clarify version of enigmatic bits of descriptions of complicated meanings so clearly pieced together in a humble manner. It reveals you're an earnest seeker of truth, and you are worthy of praise from your fellows for such an endeavor. For scripture admonishes us to shower praise on our brother/sister, and toward those who would be worthy of such admiration.

Perhaps God did use you, as one of many, who is given a prophetic word everyday. This has very little to do with making unconfirmed testimonies that that makes you one of the Witnesses for the end days. Just because you delivered a word from God, doesn't confirm anything about you. Except your greed for demanding I give you 50 dollars for informing me of that word!

Just kidding about that last sentence..lol.

Waterman, Judah the servant represents the King (Jesus) in Ezek, in the future. Ephraim the man/nation is symbolic of Israel in the future, just as symbolic Joseph (the one witness) is. Israel, means prince, not priest, as you would have us assume. For prince, is its (Israel's) the man/nation meaning in the Hebrew linguistics.

Elijah (the other Witness) is represented by the tribe of Gad. Elijah has nothing to do with representing Joseph in scripture, period, regardless of your many false made-up unscriptual claims.

Listen I am done reading your post. You simply keep repeating yourself, not even attempting to listen to reason and follow obvious scriptural examples of your misconceptions of most explanations of anything you claim.

And when I do present you with new evidence you cannot dispute, you simply ignore that topic/subject, and change the subject. I do have a life you know, and I am not going to waste the rest of it reading your constant nonsense.

Truth is your a man who felt you got the short end of God's blessings. And your solution was to wallow in your disappointment for 10 years in a drunkard stupor. Afterwards, you justified it by making-up a different version of your own belief...good for you. Go repeat it again on your own threads! Repeat it again and again as you always do.

I will no longer read anything you write, neither will I listen to your non scriptural input or answer anymore of your post! You want me to agree to give up any claims the Lord has already confirmed to me in 1978, promised and verified to me by many witnesses. Justified thru visions of prophetesses and prophecies of established ministries of prophets, and thru the words of others, who hardly knew me. You desire me to deny what is promised and confirmed simply because you want them for yourself. As to the other one, you cannot have his claim either. It's also already established by a promise in a similar manner.

Again you're simply applying tribal position to individual meanings. You do this continually, but if any such thing actually applies in that manner, it would be more apt to be exposing the Lord's mission on earth, than any other thing. Again you're not one of the two witnesses for the end days. Your calling seems more into entertainment than inspirational. Its okay though, entertainment is an excellent calling also.

No pffh Jain its the plant not you.

I will never pretend to debate in a nonsensical manner, even spiritual truths are very difficult to explain to even today's people. Even with supposedly Christians it is sometimes tougher. Because when you explain a high truth to a self-directed mind they will never understand. Only by the Holy Spirit the Truth start to arise by itself.

It's sad, with all the advances of science and technology today, people would understand these things crystal clear but the problem of our society is distraction, easily distracted, almost always unfocused, very few Holy-Spirit-driven researchers.

If the Holy Spirit will guide us to the Whole Truth it means Jesus didn't reveal us all the truths, because each of the truths have a proper time to be revealed, so it is our responsibility to ask for the gift of discernment, and once we know a truth or a lie that was occult is our responsibility also to reveal it, to illuminate others.

It's waste-less to be self-wise.

I will clarify a thing about (Enoch IV. 86:4) in another reply, to no "over-charge" the current post.
I'm sorry I wrote a lot on that previous reply but maybe you are accustomed to read long posts. Truth Hungers usually look for the message more shorter, more precise, more quick. But in these topics there is a lot to write.

(I recommend you for long-debate posts with other people to cut some of the non vital previous information. That way the post will look more compact and readable. You can do this on my post as well, It's not a big deal for me...)

About the Enoch IV. 86:4:
"And behold they all let out their sexual members like horses."

Those verses are repeated several times, over the story. This was a dream, symbolic dream, trying to be explained to his son.
You will see a lot of animals, probably known animals of their time. It is very different to explain a direct vision from God than a symbolic dream from God. I will not explain it but just make some annotations about it.

First you may know by the story of those Fallen Angels, they not sin only by impregnating woman, they also taught ancient people about "unclear & half" truths. They taught about war & weapons, about astrology, cosmetics, and so much things that corrupt the mind of the people of their time.

Once the first Nephilim born the corruption of the flesh started and once they taught half truths corruption of mind and spirit begin to take place. T

But there were probably centuries between their Father's first sin and their proper punishment, the chaining. So probably in their first decades the Nephilim were seen as heroes, as friends, as Mighty even as Gods. Notice that even in those times God not intervened yet.

They may help humanity in great ways, because they were giants, they could construct big cities and temples, they could change rivers flows and could hunt giant sea creatures to feed themselves and people. The Nephilim probably took the Heavy work part, and their Fathers took the spread of "knowledge" that is an unclear truth that was revelead to them before sin.

As God knows everything, he also know they will fall, so when he distributed the gifts of knowledge to celestial beings, he gave them only part of the truths so they will always be wrong. For example God may know the exact influence the stars have on crops and people, and may reveal it to their servants, fully or in part. But sometimes there are things irrelevant to the knowledge of human beings, that will not enhance the human experience at all. That knowledge is a waste of time, a dead-end.

So keep in mind God never intended for the human to be taught by angels of these things, probably because they will follow Star Gods, and worship them, and get so amazed of that to the point to even make human sacrifices and other perversions. So no matter God decide to reveal the whole truth about the physics of metals, i. e., the human beings of those times they were already corrupted by their first fall. So they are not capable of understanding the good part of handling metals being taught, they were inclined to make it for war, even there is no need for war, if they were in a Golden Era, with Mighty Giants.

So God let the Fallen Angels even to taught half truths to people, and they started to be more and more corrupt. When Nephilim exhausted their ways of feeding themselves, guess what? They start to eat humans.

But I guess also before they started to eat humans their Fathers tried to "feed" their children in other ways. So maybe, and just maybe, they thought: "Ok, We impregnated woman and they born us giant children, maybe if we impregnated beasts we can have giant beasts and we can feed our children with them, then"

SO it is also probable that not only the Fallen Angels corrupt the Human DNA but the animals DNA as well. It is Highly suspicious that God ask Noah for animal couples to bring them into the Ark later. Why? Why animals and seeds?

If they don't have a spirit, Noah potentially could take whatever seed and animal couple he encounter in his way. But My understanding is that God in those times are so cautious about clean and unclean species of animals, so even Noah can't sacrifice or eat unclean ones, while in the ark. He could carry unclean ones but can't eat them.

Which it is funny because the list of unclean animals started to be depicted so much further in the future, after Moses. SO these ancient unclean animals list maybe not exactly the same as the future Moses and Aaron's list depicted on Leviticus 11.

Maybe that ancient list of unclean animals are just unclean because of their DNA messing. And you have to ask why even God ask Noah to bring a minimum part of unclean ones into the Ark? If you were God and saw a lot of mutant animals being created by fallen angels depraved minds, and you as God saw a lion that is mutated but the only thing "abnormal" to him is their new claws, Would you treat that minor change as bad as a completely mutated specie? Remember they still not have spirit> Would you let the lion to be killed in the Flood?

So you may see in those days probably mutant beasts, dragons, and all sort of animal mutations as well, you may see the Fallen angels to have some skin or become more monster-like creatures with the pass of the time, with each new sin. Because, may no mistake if they were involved in a sort of bestiality "overshadow" they will also have consequences.

Ancient people depictions of creatures and gods maybe are not completely coming from their imagination. Maybe they were real. Is just corruption over corruption. But make no mistake, ancient cultures are not as advanced as the Ancient Aliens TV Show tell.

They just being taught on Astrology and half secrets but they still take the hearts out of the body of people to sacrifice them to their Gods, so you will know the tree by their fruits. There no such thing as Ancient Aliens but Ancient Fallen Angels.

Every time you see an episode of that TV show you can substitute perfectly "Ancient Aliens" for "Ancient Fallen Angels" and will make perfect sense. Because even if their theory was true, they have to accept their "aliens" are not Good at all, they are perverse and corrupt the whole Earth.
They could say to ancient people, -Hey, Stop! Don't make that thing of sacrificing people, that's useless!!! Do they stop ancient people to become more and more corrupt?

So, recapitulating, With just little pockets of "clean" animals, vegetation and humans, the imminent danger of something left to be saved increased. There were almost nothing to save in the Earth if the Nephilim continue their path of destruction.

SO I think the dream of animals it is a depiction of the Fallen Angels inter-coursing with women but also is part of the normal "mess" the dreamer saw in his own time: all sort of mutant beasts roaming over the earth.

Either ways as I said previously, angels can be flesh dressed, so of course they can make the intercourse as traditional as it is. But I guessing they just didn't, because they are so "smart" they know they don't even need a penis for intercourse. And their kind of lust it is different because is not flesh driven but intellectual driven, so maybe they just make their "overshadow" the way their mind dictate it suppose to be.

Of course neither of the two possibilities change the things that came after that sin. Just it is more controversial if you go to a park and start to preach about Fallen Angels having penis, will grab the attention of many but just for joke. If you explain the overshadow as a wound touch, maybe a biologist would believe your claim.

Let say an angel ask the woman to cut herself right at the vertical point on the pelvis region where the ovule is (deep down) and the angel pour their Spiritual Image Copy in there and drive it until reach the egg, then it looks more comprehensible.

Either ways people that assume the Book of Enoch is not inspired, they will always deny your claim as a lie, even that Book contains more prophetic verses of Jesus than all Isaiah and other Bible prophetic verses together. The same people that claim that Enoch is uninspired, still need to "delete" some verses from Genesis and Jude, and make so clear it was not what Peter said, "just a mistake, ha"

The current Bible is not exactly a faithful copy, and you would see a lot of mistakes, intended or accidentally being made every time some idiotic people think they can interpret it by their own mind. But the Holy Spirit highlighted you what is incorrectly rewritten. There are parts of the Book of Enoch that I think they are not exactly inspired, for example the part where supposedly God explains him all the mechanisms of the Universe. This was exactly what God was avoiding to teach to the human race, and the fallen angels started to taught.

So maybe this is written as an antithesis, a form of refute the teachings of the fallen angels, saying: You say that is this way, God told me is that way... You are wrong!!!
But the truth maybe is that both are wrong...
Or maybe the writer of this part of Enoch is not the same writer. Anyway the information of the celestial mechanisms is useless. So when something is useless in the "whole" Bible is really useless. When something is inspired, is connected all over the Books. And the first chapters of the book of Enoch are so connected, I mean it explains a lot.

I really don't know how "Christians" ever considered to at least read it for the sake of just reading it. But can read "easily" the Books of Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter.

So very true about discernment. Without discernment from God's Spirit everything is but a group of misguided, misdirected, understandings toward confusion. Not only for the one instructing others, but also as well, for all those being tutored toward that instructional example.

I believe you have the right approach there about not debating others. Debate serves very little purpose in the end. We of course must defend our position of belief, and even compromise if proven wrong by a greater insight of others example. However to debate simply to debate is a poor objective of God's higher goal for us.

Lengthy responses on my threads are not objectionable to me. Have you seen the length of some of my comments..lol. The only thing I find of no value to me or the threads' readers are the repetition of the same material once presented. I feel if one lacks the ability to express a new conclusive thought on any field of discussion they just simply lack the proficiency of any further expression of the understanding to those reading that post.

I couldn't agree with you more, minus the more than unnecessary descriptive language in which it was presented. This is why I decided to cease communicating with waterman. We were at the point that our only objective was our boast in our service to the Lord, instead of our lack in that same service to the Lord and his mandates. It is my belief it should always be appreciated to have the perspective of other observations outside our own field of vision. Thank you for that/your observation and your comment.

I must respond to these foolish accusations of yours. You fail to understand relationship that are of no sexual connotation/attractions at all, but only that of a heartfelt bond of a father toward his child. You seem to me someone who was shown affection by being tossed on your heard whenever you sought such attention. As far as my response being insincere and beguiling. Who suddenly made you the expert in observing the sincerity of others, or to determine their intentions of that sincerity.

Listen what would be my objective to beguile you. I don't even know you, neither do I want to, now that you further expressed yourself.

I do not know why you assume I am of a false religious belief by sending along that symbolic religious belief at the bottom of your page. Nevertheless, do not presume Christianity and Catholicism are necessarily of the same truths. One started long before the other and the other around 300AD. Two different beliefs/truths systems toward eternal life altogether. One false the other filled with realization most will never see/experience.

Listen, you need to get some sleep/have someone slap you in the face, or something. It seems your cognitive reasoning is somewhat off balance for sure.

I have not been reading waterman's responses, but couldn't help see his response to you in your answer. My earlier response was sincere, but waterman's was hilarious, even if I regretfully say so! Didn't you think that was a really funny comment also, from waterman...lol?

Although your viewpoint on the many different observations of the Book of Enoch and the explanations of the procession of the operational addicts of those fallen angels are well presented. I do believe you might be excluding one major factor in your analysis. And that would be the actions/attitude of the women being utilized for the impregnation.

Now I am in agreement that they (those fallen ones,) could most easily cut a slit in the flesh near the ovary and start the process of inducing offspring. However, in my opinion this process would be very unsuccessful after a short period of time.

As is the tendency in mankind, attraction is the drawing factor toward one another, and to the furthering toward an eventual impregnation. I cannot believe that these fallen angels would necessarily be drawing the attraction or the attention of those gorgeous creations by slitting open their flesh. If theses ladies only experience, was to be slit open in their flesh and then tossed aside until the next time they were needed. Not very many woman are really going to find that sexually or romantically appealing. Therefore, I think the next time around there would have been a lot of hiding or suicides occurring to avoid these kind of rendezvous the next time.

No I believe the original attraction was these angels saw that the women were fair in those days and they wanted them. Their first objective was to have sexual relations with these women, even with their exposed privy parts. Then afterward came the secondary outcome..the offspring.

It is of my opinion that with observations through the years beforehand those fallen angels knew/understood what would draw the ladies to them. And I do not believe it was going to be a cut in their flesh and a smile on their face.

I believe there is every indication that those human beings were sexually attractive and also those fallen ones could also appear in that appearance and attitude and endowment that would most appeal to the women of those times. I am sure that would more than likely far supersede the higher attraction toward their aims than a cut/slit in the flesh. Nevertheless, I agree also though, the means in which it was accomplish is secondary.

I can to a degree agree that our modern day version of scripture is not nearly as accurate as the original and the word form of some of the meanings in the different bibles are not precise. Nevertheless, as far as the coping from the original manuscripts of the past. The discovery of the dead sea scrolls proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the accuracy of the original scripture verses the modern bible. Revealing things like the book of Isaiah lining-up almost verbatim, except a few excluded, and/or/buts, in our modern KJV of our Bible.

I also am not going to agree with your statement that Enoch was shown in his his vision/s about those things meant to be hid, so as you believe, it must lessen the authenticity of Enoch's visions as inspirational. If you consider that Enoch was shown things of his times you might be correct. Nevertheless, I believe the book of Enoch is more of a dimensional travel experience. Thus, many things revealed to Enoch were past, present, and future events. For his past, to this present, and to future generations. Yet, Enoch's recorded foundational purpose is explained in the beginning of Enoch's account. It was and is meant for a future/end generation.

Therefore this is the purpose of the revealing of mysteries better understood of what was to come, what has came, and what will come. For whose intended purposes? Our generation, that intended generation is who the vision is speaking for, and intended to convey its meaning. So, Enoch is revealing the whole account of the history of earth's purposed recorded time. Until time ceases, and then only the ageless age begins its eternal motions.

This recorded history is revealed in (1Enoch.87-90.) Notice Enoch is taken up by angels in chapter 87. Then after the historical account of the earth has covered thousands of years (1Enoch.87-90,) and is coming to a close at the end of chapter (90,) Enoch suddenly awakens (1Enoch.90:39.) Why does he awake? Because, he must fulfill the promise made in (1Enoch.87:4,) to remain in his place until the end of the revealing of all historical events just before the end. So this is demonstrating that Enoch symbolically shall again return at the end times wide awake, and aware of himself again. More than likely as one of the two witnesses.

Therefore, those things God intended to hide from the understanding of a long past generation. Therefore it may be necessary to understand and intended to know in God's future plan for that other generation, of that time he (Enoch,) they (that end generation,) receives this information. Therefore to better comprehend Enoch's accounts we must grasp the locational lineage, and the point in that period, he his seeking to express to the reader. Therefore the thing God would never intend to reveal to one generation, God did/does desire to reveal to that generation that Enoch will/was speak/ing to one day to come. Therefore, if this be so, the book might still be inspired, it is simply us who are failing to catch the full depth of the ones being addressed, and when!

why...

You may consider the possibility that given the "horny" mood of the Fallen Angels toward women, this was actually a "rape" type of impregnation, not fully consented by those ancient women.

In the story of the fall of Eve, there was a very clear temptation that is offered to her and she fell for it.
Every detail is depicted.

In Fallen Angels story, for the contrary, there are not mention of women being tempted, i.e. "because the angels look so handsome" or by their "amazing sexual organs".

Even in the story of the dream it looks like a rape, if you consider the sex between animals is not driven by affection but by instinct. Animals don't ask the females if they want it, or prepare a bed with candles before the act. They just follow their animal instinct and even if the female didn't want it, he try and try until he subjugate her. So it is a kind of "rape" if you look at it. Maybe that is precisely the reason to present the fallen angels as animals in the dream.

When it is written that Fallen Angels took wives, it does not necessary means they agree in "matrimony" in a ritual-like ceremony neither. And even if the angels "raped" women it doesn't means, those women rejected them after the eclipsing, probably they make a kind of bond that would grow stronger with the born of the Nephilim babies.

Jesus may gave us a hint when describing the final times:

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Mathew 24,37-39

Now, when Jesus point to "marriages" he must refer to something different to a typical good marriage. Because God's intention was precisely that the man/woman have a happy and fruitful marriage with children. So He must referring not only to sexual promiscuity, but abortion, genetic messing (you can say "ancient cloning or mutations") and all kind of perverted sexual behavior, probably bestiality, etc.

And the next thing Jesus used for comparing the end times society is precisely Lot and Sodom. Because there was also a sexual deviation there. Anything that could harm the God intended natural way to fill the Earth is like a smack down in God face. Like saying: I don't care what are your intentions or what is natural for you, I'm going to do what I think is natural for me, even if I have to use the violence to attain that goal..."

That egocentric violent "mind" is what is common to all the stories. Fallen angels have that type of violent mind too. I don't think they asked women, I think they are so focus in attain their goal, they just forced them. They even did an oath together to commit that "crime". So they suspected God will not approved their behavior, so in case of emergency at least they will be all together.

In summary if it was rape, the blood cut can also fit into the possible form of intercourse. A tear in the skin is a kind of aggression depending of how them performed it.

Sound reasoning. Nevertheless, I still believe these fallen angelic beings were crafty, handsome, and used their sound manipulative emotional, persuasions, to gain favor over their human/male competition. Otherwise, I believe most of the women regardless of any kind of bond for the baby would not have consented to a full term delivery because of the disgusting actions of being raped. Not once raped but continually so year after year! Neither in private, do I believe these types of childbearing continual actions (rapes) would have been acceptable in the beginning.

And would neither have been an acceptable environment (Rape) for such entities or the women who sought to carry such outcomes of these actions, to full term. Perhaps, afterwards, with time, and society began to become more corrupt over the centuries; perhaps then rape was involved. However I believe at their first appearing those angels would have followed the example of their master's/father's earlier tactical usage, and followed the same beguilement that enticed Eve. The charm and beauty of the snake. And the words of promise, thus tempting her with the promise of a god status.

I believe also being clever they hid their forceful and demanding temperament. Relying also on the emotional response/reaction of both (theirs and the women's) sides of the equations. When these same angels appeal was rejected by God, they wept profusely before Enoch. Revealing the show of emotions they could display. I do not believe the privy parts would have been mentioned in those writings if they were not used for the functional purpose of the beginning inception of the act, not by force, but thru their show of their prowess and enticement.

I believe it is past time for me to finish-up my endeavors on my threads. Therefore I will no longer be posting anything further. It has been an interesting experience. I appreciate all the different comments and post by the sincere, regardless of the kindness or the harshness of those comments/posts, if honesty was the accompaniment.

I will continual to read the GLP threads & Posts of others. It has been fun and uplifting to share information with most of you, and more or less a useless waste of time with others...lol.

Let me asking one final question. Listen carefully.

If I clone myself you may agree the clone and I share the same physical attributes, but because we can't clone life experiences we will become different human beings. If inside my genetic material is coded that I would be illness-free, then my clone will also be illness-free. Everything that is unchangeable will pass from me to the clone.

My question is: You Believe Jesus and The Father are different persons inside One God, or Different Persons & Different Gods, i.e. A Non-in-conflict* Supreme God with Non-in-conflict* New & Fleshy God?

*Non-in-Conflict means they will never be jealous of each other or go ballistic about each other praise or glory

Stop asking me questions. That is not fair, are you seeking to make a liar out of me, after stating I am finished commenting on my threads. It really feels nice that I no longer have to participate in commenting to all the different post.

"One final question"..okay. One Final answer.

You have made your question more complicated than it need be.

I believe the Father and the Son are one of the same in thought and word!

My words are no different than my thoughts. For my words must manifest the reflections of those/my thoughts in its timing. Therefore my words, my thoughts, are of the same example of the same personage. Whether that be my words and thoughts, or your thoughts and words. Each is the expression of the same entity.

It therefore doesn't lessen the fact that only that certain one can form his/her thoughts, and than convey the words of that exact communication. It is not like we could separate the dual (thoughts and words) process of our communication to others.

So it is my belief in that sense that it would be impossible to be in conflict with oneself. When the expression of both that thought and the words of that thought are spoken thru the same body/entity/spirit. So both (thought and word) is purposed toward the same objective.

Thus both communicate thru the same means as you and I do within ourselves, toward conveying our same desires. What I/you think is what I/you express in word. Yet, it is still I/you undivided by any means/thought, in our words express. Who therefore would commend us if a word was spoken admirably, and who would receive the glory, the thought of those words or the words of those thoughts, of that same one/entity/individual/spirit/God?

Nevertheless, I believe this is why Jesus (the Word) [John.1:1,1:14kjv] stated the Father was greater than him (John.10:29kjv.] For the thought, of anything commendable always manifest praise of the words spoken behind the thoughts admired in the expression of the words. So thought (the thinking behind the expression, word,) is always recognized as mightier in expression than the words expressed in the reflective thought.

This is why the God-head (Trinity) is always in unity with one another. They are but one, always thinking in unison. They can only think in unison for they are God and their thoughts are of perfection in every manner of their omniscience. So only God and no other can and will always come up with the perfect solution to all questions/problems.

There is never a two answer solution in perfection. Therefore, God (in his Trinity,) who is perfect, always agrees in unity for they all (as God) have the one perfect solution/answer.

One of the profiles of the Trinity doesn't say to the other, "no, I think this would be a better answer/solution than what you suggest Father." For he who knows and understands the outcome/answer to all things never needs an adviser even in his own double/triple/trinity thoughts. For perfection needs no improvement on itself or further counsel. For only perfection in thought can/will always be in agreement, for they in unison, as God, comprehends the exact perfect answer/solution.

I don't know if that was exactly what you meant or was even asking in your question. I am sure there are many more qualified to answer your very good question. Good bye my friend. It was nice conversing with you on this site.

Love God?
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit???


You have not manifested your heart for HIM, Answered HIS Call, until you surrender self unto HIM and are Born-Again....



Don't talk and profess your Love For HIM; you got to Show HIM and Prove it!



Really think Enoch matters?


Jesus Witnesses in Matt 7:21-23 that even those who did miracles, prophesied, and cast-out demons In HIS Name; but never Came Unto The Father to Be Born-Again, Enabled To Do and Know Father's Will, will be rejected....

Ever do any miracles?
Those Christ Says HE WILL REJECT did.
God The Son Said they did....

All that meant nothing!
They never manifested their hearts Unto The Father.
Never took The Way Jesus Enabled For Us to KNOW HIM and Father Personally and Directly...

Enoch means nothing in context of The Gospel and The WAY Jesus Enabled for us on calvary.

Plenty of Witness about those not In Father's Accord being EJECTED from Heaven.... Luke 13:22-28, Matt 22:1-14. Both Witnesses above specify that those rejected will be "bound and thrown into the darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!"


Did everything but Tell God you are HIS.
Did everything but make your surrender.
Did everything but Prove Your Love By taking John 3:14 action...


These ARE The Final Moments...
Got time to talk about Enoch, but never a flutter of witness on your heart to Answer God's Call?


Such is Laodicea.
Lukewarm.
Wrongly focused.
Failed Vessels by the many.


Not much longer now....
Be HIS or be on your own...


Maranatha!!!

Believe me.. the vision dreams I have had the past 30 years.. Book of Enoch is (real) I also take high stock in (2 Esdras). Gods thoughts are not our thoughts.. or ways.. There are these other books that were blocked by the (Pharasies-- ie -- the deep state) that is the modern Pharasie