Request: Will the Spiritually Evolved Beings Please Stop Feeding the Egos | |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 04:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So you are saying that a mind that would support free will is also untrained or unpolished? More like lead then gold? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1520949 Ultimately, there is only True Will, which is Divine in origin. In Kabballah the Kether of the Yechida is the fountainhead of God's energy pouring into the Tree of Life that is the unique expression of every human soul, like a snowflake prism for the Light of All. In tantra, this would be kundalini energy which is seen as inherent to the dharma (path or way) of the Very Subtle Consciousness, the eternal aspect of the soul which acts on the karmic wheel of Samsara and will be the final refined product to "escape" as output. I said that it is like the Unpolished Stone and the Untrained Mind because in tantra the goal is to defeat the ego utterly, and make it indistinguishable from the rest of conscious reality. So Will and Ego are synonmous in tantra. Western magick, which is the home of the term Adversary (Satan), sees Will as also the product of Divine expression, however, the Will and Ego are seen as separate entities. The goal in this system is to connect the expression of human will to the Divine Will so as to refine the Ego as a tool for acting as God intends. The Will remains an adversary so long as it is seen apart from the Divine. Understanding this thoroughly involves rejecting the duality that would presuppose the Satan as an Adversary to be working in opposition to evolution, instead it is necessary to see opposing forces as required for any kind of progress. I understand what you are saying, although I have not read the texts for myself and cannot disagree or agree with the interpretation. What would you suggest as the book to begin with? [link to www.youtube.com] If you are drawn to the Tantric path I would recommend A Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life by Santideva and Wheels of Life by Anodea Judith. If you are drawn to Kabballah I would recommend The Tree of Life by Israel Regardie. Regardless of which path you choose or none at all, I recommend reading everything you can find by the Sufi Idries Shah, his book The Sufis touches on a secret history of the world seldom discussed outside of places like the lodges of orders and GLP. Learning How to Learn, by Shah is also excellent and more to the point for those interested in Sufi metaphysical psychology. If someone were to understand thoroughly 1% of what is in these books, he or she would truly be godlike in aspiration. :romaflag: Not enough to fight, too many to die. |
Jane Smith Forum Administrator User ID: 1215902 United States 09/07/2011 04:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So you are saying that a mind that would support free will is also untrained or unpolished? More like lead then gold? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1520949 Ultimately, there is only True Will, which is Divine in origin. In Kabballah the Kether of the Yechida is the fountainhead of God's energy pouring into the Tree of Life that is the unique expression of every human soul, like a snowflake prism for the Light of All. In tantra, this would be kundalini energy which is seen as inherent to the dharma (path or way) of the Very Subtle Consciousness, the eternal aspect of the soul which acts on the karmic wheel of Samsara and will be the final refined product to "escape" as output. I said that it is like the Unpolished Stone and the Untrained Mind because in tantra the goal is to defeat the ego utterly, and make it indistinguishable from the rest of conscious reality. So Will and Ego are synonmous in tantra. Western magick, which is the home of the term Adversary (Satan), sees Will as also the product of Divine expression, however, the Will and Ego are seen as separate entities. The goal in this system is to connect the expression of human will to the Divine Will so as to refine the Ego as a tool for acting as God intends. The Will remains an adversary so long as it is seen apart from the Divine. Understanding this thoroughly involves rejecting the duality that would presuppose the Satan as an Adversary to be working in opposition to evolution, instead it is necessary to see opposing forces as required for any kind of progress. I understand what you are saying, although I have not read the texts for myself and cannot disagree or agree with the interpretation. What would you suggest as the book to begin with? [link to www.youtube.com] Start here: THE KYBALION A Study of The Hermetic Philosophy of Ancient Egypt and Greece by Three Initiates [link to www.phoenixmasonry.org] Then the book can be obtained on Amazon. Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1531248 United States 09/07/2011 04:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You fail to realize that true spiritually evolved do not have issues with egos. If you are observing ego issues across multitude of teachings/gurus out there, it means they are all crap. Results speak for themselves. You need to find another avenue and let go of all you think you know so far cause it doesn't work obviously. |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 04:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | With that said, as a parent, it is impossible to forsake security and thrust my children into the frightening, vulnerable existence I once lived. They do understand there is a far greater force at work than that we percieve with our 5 senses; my eldest sees auras & the youngest senses other dimensional presences. I try to keep them open. Quoting: Jane Smith The Householder should be held in higher regard than even the Adept, as he or she has made the ultimate sacrfice for the well being of another and the continuation of society at large. Last Edited by Least Servant on 09/07/2011 04:39 PM :romaflag: Not enough to fight, too many to die. |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 04:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You fail to realize that true spiritually evolved do not have issues with egos. If you are observing ego issues across multitude of teachings/gurus out there, it means they are all crap. Results speak for themselves. You need to find another avenue and let go of all you think you know so far cause it doesn't work obviously. I was aiming for irony and I think I nailed it. :romaflag: Not enough to fight, too many to die. |
Jane Smith Forum Administrator User ID: 1215902 United States 09/07/2011 04:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So you are saying that a mind that would support free will is also untrained or unpolished? More like lead then gold? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1520949 Ultimately, there is only True Will, which is Divine in origin. In Kabballah the Kether of the Yechida is the fountainhead of God's energy pouring into the Tree of Life that is the unique expression of every human soul, like a snowflake prism for the Light of All. In tantra, this would be kundalini energy which is seen as inherent to the dharma (path or way) of the Very Subtle Consciousness, the eternal aspect of the soul which acts on the karmic wheel of Samsara and will be the final refined product to "escape" as output. I said that it is like the Unpolished Stone and the Untrained Mind because in tantra the goal is to defeat the ego utterly, and make it indistinguishable from the rest of conscious reality. So Will and Ego are synonmous in tantra. Western magick, which is the home of the term Adversary (Satan), sees Will as also the product of Divine expression, however, the Will and Ego are seen as separate entities. The goal in this system is to connect the expression of human will to the Divine Will so as to refine the Ego as a tool for acting as God intends. The Will remains an adversary so long as it is seen apart from the Divine. Understanding this thoroughly involves rejecting the duality that would presuppose the Satan as an Adversary to be working in opposition to evolution, instead it is necessary to see opposing forces as required for any kind of progress. I understand what you are saying, although I have not read the texts for myself and cannot disagree or agree with the interpretation. What would you suggest as the book to begin with? [link to www.youtube.com] If you are drawn to the Tantric path I would recommend A Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life by Santideva and Wheels of Life by Anodea Judith. If you are drawn to Kabballah I would recommend The Tree of Life by Israel Regardie. Regardless of which path you choose or none at all, I recommend reading everything you can find by the Sufi Idries Shah, his book The Sufis touches on a secret history of the world seldom discussed outside of places like the lodges of orders and GLP. Learning How to Learn, by Shah is also excellent and more to the point for those interested in Sufi metaphysical psychology. If someone were to understand thoroughly 1% of what is in these books, he or she would truly be godlike in aspiration. Just ordered "The Sufis" and "Seeker After Truth". Thank you. Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 04:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I frequently had to take breaks from reading "The Sufis" because certain passages made me hallucinate. It's awesome. Last Edited by Least Servant on 09/07/2011 04:42 PM :romaflag: Not enough to fight, too many to die. |
Poster 8398 User ID: 1297697 United States 09/07/2011 04:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ...... But if its ones timing in the natal chart, it will not fail to take root and grow. ...... I have to agree 100% with this. I started my journey with no "guru". All the info Apollo and others share, is out on the internet for anyone to find. You can start your journey without a "guru" or without "initiation". Not saying you will reach the "end" without an initiation/guru. But you can start your journey without one. Rev, I think you are missing Least's point. For some, yeah, no problem. But for others, it creates 'problems' that are further and further harder to resolve. It is like democrats. They spout promises of immediate solutions to their woe's, without looking at the long term consequences. I can see this possibility. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1502110 United States 09/07/2011 04:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The reason that most spiritual teachings have been sheltered away from the common person throughout the histroy of the world is twofold 1) the common person would gain little benefit from evolution systems in a base state lacking the prerequisite condition 2) to preserve the integrity of these systems against the possibility of a person lacking sufficient comprehension and understanding of the material yet with sufficient knowledge to contribute falsehoods and misunderstandings to the larger discourse. Quoting: Least Servant The little known secret to all these practices is that they DO VERY LITTLE to NOTHING for the psychological neurosis of the mind. In fact, one of the traditional great dangers of all these systems and in the whole guru system in general is the danger of markers of spiritual progress being faked or counterfitted by the conscious mind (both with intention and without intention) and the energy freed by the various practices, instead of being applied with integrity to the system for the evolution of the spirit to meet the eternal soul, go to fuel any number of neurotic ego-driven pathologies so commonly noted in the modern world today. With this in mind, the dangling of the promises of the spiritual systems of the world in the face of one who is suffering NOT with some greater metaphysical dilemna but in fact with the weight of their own mis-programmed (from the faults of society and family) mind DOES THE SUFFERER NO FAVORS but insteads performs the role of a spell in witchcraft to chain their emotional well-being to the attainment of some kind of magickal sigil (which can be a concept or a physical mark), depriving the person of their own power and empowering THE OTHER, whether this be a book, a meditation, an evoked diety, or the guru. With this in mind, what the average person needs from the evolved souls is not a diatribe on spiritual evolution or the promises of the Great Work, but rather a framing of the issue of each and every person's unique life which makes their suffering SIGNFICANT and IMPORTANT to THEM, an exploration of the origins and causes of their day to day struggles and simple understandings which point to the reasons why the things which come up in the mind and in the world act the way they do upon the individual, both as a product of their own lives and a product of the larger evolutionary enterprise known as humanity. It is through the day to day realization of the nature of the STRUGGLE, that the mind can acheive the peace it needs to give the spirit the power required to make the first infant steps on the way to the permanent relieving of suffering that comes from evolution. Human children cannot be given a discourse on the nature of walking, they must instead be fed and protected so they can grow until they can observe enough of walking to have the ability to do it without thought, to walk towards the light as a reflex and unstoppable inate drive! Had to quote the OP again as it is so on target. To rob one of their spiritual path and stages of initation only serves to stunt growth. Giving more information than a person is ready to hear generally turns out negatively. Those who are meant to teach know this as they have experienced given out more than another can absorb or handle. On the other hand, there are those at certain stages of spiritual initiation in which the ego can rear up and it is far too tempting for them to show others their vast new knowledge. I'm sure the system is set up to work out, however....I sure hope for the others. But then again, most who are not ready to hear, will most likely not absorb the information overload. Good thread Least Servant! |
Poster 8398 User ID: 1297697 United States 09/07/2011 04:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Just read this whole thread: And have come to the conclusion that I still need to keep reading reading reading... :) On information overlload and having negative consqeuences for people not ready by "natural" initiation, I am in full agreeemnt. I've experienced the fringe of that myself. Last Edited by Poster 8398 on 09/07/2011 04:51 PM |
Jane Smith Forum Administrator User ID: 1215902 United States 09/07/2011 04:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I frequently had to take breaks from reading "The Sufis" because certain passages made me hallucinate. It's awesome. Looking forward to it. Have felt like I'm just drifting last 6 months, need to start moving forward again. Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 04:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 865798 United States 09/07/2011 04:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: APOLLO ILLUMINAUGHTY ...... But if its ones timing in the natal chart, it will not fail to take root and grow. ...... I have to agree 100% with this. I started my journey with no "guru". All the info Apollo and others share, is out on the internet for anyone to find. You can start your journey without a "guru" or without "initiation". Not saying you will reach the "end" without an initiation/guru. But you can start your journey without one. Rev, I think you are missing Least's point. For some, yeah, no problem. But for others, it creates 'problems' that are further and further harder to resolve. It is like democrats. They spout promises of immediate solutions to their woe's, without looking at the long term consequences. I can see this possibility. Poster, I think about this a lot nowadays. I am given information now, that I do not understand (symbolism and 'labels') that I find myself stepping back from. This is stuff that I am told I shouldn't say where I got it, or who gave it to me. It is supposedly powerful stuff, but I do not mess with it because I may be tempted to try something, yet might not know of the consequences...ie 'Black Majick'... I don't know, so I keep it at a distance until I 'understand it', and then I will make my decision. Most people wouldn't give a shit, and just do it if presented with it, you know. Maybe not most, but you know what I mean. Anyway, just wanted to give a personal experience concerning this 'idea'. |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 04:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I frequently had to take breaks from reading "The Sufis" because certain passages made me hallucinate. It's awesome. Looking forward to it. Have felt like I'm just drifting last 6 months, need to start moving forward again. I know the feeling. Sometimes that drifting feeling comes from your subconscious working things out on its own level. When things fall into place, you will often feel "ready" to do something, not knowing entirely where that feeling came from on that given day or why that particular "something" is the thing to do, but it will work when you try! :romaflag: Not enough to fight, too many to die. |
Poster 8398 User ID: 1297697 United States 09/07/2011 04:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Revguard I have to agree 100% with this. I started my journey with no "guru". All the info Apollo and others share, is out on the internet for anyone to find. You can start your journey without a "guru" or without "initiation". Not saying you will reach the "end" without an initiation/guru. But you can start your journey without one. Rev, I think you are missing Least's point. For some, yeah, no problem. But for others, it creates 'problems' that are further and further harder to resolve. It is like democrats. They spout promises of immediate solutions to their woe's, without looking at the long term consequences. I can see this possibility. Poster, I think about this a lot nowadays. I am given information now, that I do not understand (symbolism and 'labels') that I find myself stepping back from. This is stuff that I am told I shouldn't say where I got it, or who gave it to me. It is supposedly powerful stuff, but I do not mess with it because I may be tempted to try something, yet might not know of the consequences...ie 'Black Majick'... I don't know, so I keep it at a distance until I 'understand it', and then I will make my decision. Most people wouldn't give a shit, and just do it if presented with it, you know. Maybe not most, but you know what I mean. Anyway, just wanted to give a personal experience concerning this 'idea'. Precisely my point in my other post above. One must be honest with themselves. If you have information or are working through informatin that you clearing do not understand even at face value, then how can you possibly begin to understand it as a whole? This is part of the "fast food" culture we live in. One must be honest with themselves and recognize their own limits. Both emotional, spiritual, and mentally. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1532110 United States 09/07/2011 04:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | when u talk of spiritually evolved beings Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1539289 exactly what kind of spirituality are you referring to? explian this spirituality? That was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the false prophets on this website. LOL, honest, its not up to you to judge, I judge no one, I could be wrong about someone and who am I to say? I dont know if you have me in mind or not, we connected very well in months past. Watch yourself Least, Its all about thyself. remember |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 04:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | when u talk of spiritually evolved beings Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1539289 exactly what kind of spirituality are you referring to? explian this spirituality? That was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the false prophets on this website. LOL, honest, its not up to you to judge, I judge no one, I could be wrong about someone and who am I to say? Watch yourself Least, Its all about thyself. remember I'm not tapping at egg shells for I have no desire to clean up yoke. :romaflag: Not enough to fight, too many to die. |
Frater User ID: 418975 United States 09/07/2011 04:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is an interesting thead LS. It's like a circular trap for those of us trying to raise ourselves up. As we make some progress on ourselves, feel Gods Love, learn new concepts, temper reaction, gain famaliarization and trust of the forces in creation. Your feeling so good about everything, your doing the right thing and for what I think is the right reason; Love of God, wanting to be closer to Him and His Love and Joy. But that feeling good about yourself does tend to form into pride and thats a downfall and then you realize it and get taken down quite a few steps. Everyone else is the same, not different from me, just at a different place and/or time. But then you start the good work again but then you feel wonderful in having done so well and down you go again. But after many years of this hopefully we start to work it out of us but oh I might just take it down a few again LOL. It's a constant bane to be overcome, one day.. Amongst the group I work with it's well known that people of certain degrees sometimes become egomaniacs but they get much better in time and I'm far from there but will never stop trying. At least I see it and (Ooops damn) LOL It's kind of Zenish... I think :) Best Wishes Last Edited by Frater Deplorable on 09/07/2011 05:01 PM LVX! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1228601 09/07/2011 05:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1532110 United States 09/07/2011 05:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Least, nothing wrong with that if you had kids..The whole goal is to create a world thats safe for our children. Quoting: APOLLO ILLUMINAUGHTY Buddhism was a radical anti-society philosophy when it was first established. The buddhists frequently took soldiers from the army, farmers from the field, administrators from the courts, parents from their children and spouses from their others. A renunciate gave up EVERYTHING, to the acknowledged detriment of society in many cases. The idea that people can aspire to the same results sitting on a yoga mat at the YMCA for an hour on saturday morning is . Like everything, the plastic version can not be distinguished from the real in 2011 except by those who have been given, earned, or born with the decoders. Thanks for this comment. I dont think that is the path for me, considering the Tetragrammaton I hold as the core of my faith, family comes first. Ill stick to the middle east and western philosophies for now Have you seen a documentary on the Aghories ? Its Hindu, but the supreme example of giving up all. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1507361 United States 09/07/2011 05:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | But......had it not been for others who made it known to me (even though it was before i was ready for the info) i could not have stored the info for future reference.....so.....its kinda like splitting hairs! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1532110 United States 09/07/2011 05:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | when u talk of spiritually evolved beings Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1539289 exactly what kind of spirituality are you referring to? explian this spirituality? That was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the false prophets on this website. LOL, honest, its not up to you to judge, I judge no one, I could be wrong about someone and who am I to say? Watch yourself Least, Its all about thyself. remember I'm not tapping at egg shells for I have no desire to clean up yoke. Theres a print thats my favorite, the eggs crack and the yolk that comes out is the Sun. =) A initiate runs from the cracked egg, being born from it, It has to crack sometime. |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 05:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 05:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Least Servant That was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the false prophets on this website. LOL, honest, its not up to you to judge, I judge no one, I could be wrong about someone and who am I to say? Watch yourself Least, Its all about thyself. remember I'm not tapping at egg shells for I have no desire to clean up yoke. Theres a print thats my favorite, the eggs crack and the yolk that comes out is the Sun. =) A initiate runs from the cracked egg, being born from it, It has to crack sometime. As long as the Hermit isn't the one laying the eggs! hehe Last Edited by Least Servant on 09/07/2011 05:03 PM :romaflag: Not enough to fight, too many to die. |
Least Servant (OP) User ID: 1062754 United States 09/07/2011 05:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I totally agree with this.....and never thought of it this way. Quoting: ParrotinFlipFlops But......had it not been for others who made it known to me (even though it was before i was ready for the info) i could not have stored the info for future reference.....so.....its kinda like splitting hairs! Since there are few acknowledged masters, the potential student needs to be aware for himself. Really, this is an unfair position, previously one could give all faith to a guru because the process of being accepted into such a position where one would have a guru would vet both sides in the process... :\ :romaflag: Not enough to fight, too many to die. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1507361 United States 09/07/2011 05:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The witches only fool themselves on their way to eternal destruction, hell. Quoting: James 1533871 There is only one true spirituality, all the rest are a lie from Satan. When you are still under the belief that there are dual Gods, you are still in your carnal mind, and as long as you are of the carnal mind, you are great attendees for the religions to use you for sacrifice...... When you are ready, TRUTH is out there! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1532110 United States 09/07/2011 05:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: APOLLO ILLUMINAUGHTY LOL, honest, its not up to you to judge, I judge no one, I could be wrong about someone and who am I to say? Watch yourself Least, Its all about thyself. remember I'm not tapping at egg shells for I have no desire to clean up yoke. Theres a print thats my favorite, the eggs crack and the yolk that comes out is the Sun. =) A initiate runs from the cracked egg, being born from it, It has to crack sometime. As long as the Hermit isn't the one laying the eggs! hehe LOL ! I hope not.. lol... |
Poster 8398 User ID: 1297697 United States 09/07/2011 05:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I totally agree with this.....and never thought of it this way. Quoting: ParrotinFlipFlops But......had it not been for others who made it known to me (even though it was before i was ready for the info) i could not have stored the info for future reference.....so.....its kinda like splitting hairs! Since there are few acknowledged masters, the potential student needs to be aware for himself. Really, this is an unfair position, previously one could give all faith to a guru because the process of being accepted into such a position where one would have a guru would vet both sides in the process... :\ This is a very interesting point and good reminder. Thank you. |
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