Proof - We Don't Exist | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 6282271 Spain 07/26/2012 08:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The past and the future do not exist. The past did exist but no longer does. The future will exist, but doesn’t yet. Only the present moment exists. The present is an infinitely thin filament of time between the past and the future. The present is the only “time” that actually does exist. The present is the time frame that we exist in. Right? Quoting: Lloyd Tackitt There is a paradox though, because we don’t think or move in the present. We think in the past, which doesn’t exist. Imagine the pilot of a CIA drone airplane. He sits in a control room with sensor read outs and video camera screens. The drone is thousands of miles away. The drone has sensors and cameras that transmit information to the control room where the control room computer receives the incoming data, then interprets the data and then outputs the data; only after all of that does the pilot interpret the readouts (of the data that occurred in the past) and make his flight adjustments. There is always a time lag between the sensor in the drone receiving data and then transmitting the data to the control room, the control room interpreting and outputting the data, and the readouts providing the information to the pilot. The time lag can be quite long, depending on circumstances. The pilot is always behind the actual present moment that the drone exists in, due to the transmission/interpretation time required. In essence the pilot is always flying the drone in the past and never in the present. Human consciousness is exactly the same. All data received by the brain is transmitted along neural pathways to the brain. The brain receives the signals and then determines which signals to allow through to the consciousness and then interprets the neural signals based on past experiences before presenting the data to the consciousness. By the time the consciousness is aware of the signal, the moment of the actual signal’s having been generated has passed. The human consciousness is just like the drone pilot, sitting in a remote location, reading interpreted signals that required time to arrive and process. The consciousness of each individual is not only separated from reality by its body’s mechanical/electrical/chemical systems, it is also operating strictly on past data. So, there is the paradox, the human consciousness exists in the past and the past simply doesn’t exist. Think about this the next time you are in a conversation, be aware that the voice you are hearing isn’t in the present. The person speaking says something, the sound is transmitted as vibration waves passing through the atmosphere, the vibrations go into your ear canal and vibrate your ear drum, the ear drum vibrates small bones, the nerves in and around those bones pick up the signal and transmit electrical signals along an electrical conduit, the electrical pulse eventually arrives in some portion of the brain where it is releases a series of electrical impulses. Those impulses release chemical messengers that travel to chemical receptors then some magic happens that causes your consciousness to recognize the pattern of the signal as a voice with a specific modulation, then the brain also decodes the signal into a syllable attached to another syllable. These syllables are combined and then sent into the memory section of the brain where the brain compares the combined sound pattern with millions of previously experienced sound patterns, after millions of comparisons the brain makes a match and determines that this pattern is recognizable as a specific word, then the brain searches the memory for all instances of the uses of that specific word and determines what the word’s definition is. But wait there’s more because now the brain also compares the many uses of that word to the specific clues surrounding it for context and meaning in this particular instance. Only after all of this is accomplished does the brain present this to the consciousness. By the time the consciousness has the information the word has been spoken in the past. Now go back to paying attention to the conversation as if none of this matters. Since we don't exist, none of this does matter, right? The opposite could be true: that we always existed and time is an illusion. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20485112 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 08:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Lloyd Tackitt (OP) User ID: 20185663 United States 07/26/2012 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The past and the future do not exist. The past did exist but no longer does. The future will exist, but doesn’t yet. Only the present moment exists. The present is an infinitely thin filament of time between the past and the future. The present is the only “time” that actually does exist. The present is the time frame that we exist in. Right? Quoting: Lloyd Tackitt There is a paradox though, because we don’t think or move in the present. We think in the past, which doesn’t exist. Imagine the pilot of a CIA drone airplane. He sits in a control room with sensor read outs and video camera screens. The drone is thousands of miles away. The drone has sensors and cameras that transmit information to the control room where the control room computer receives the incoming data, then interprets the data and then outputs the data; only after all of that does the pilot interpret the readouts (of the data that occurred in the past) and make his flight adjustments. There is always a time lag between the sensor in the drone receiving data and then transmitting the data to the control room, the control room interpreting and outputting the data, and the readouts providing the information to the pilot. The time lag can be quite long, depending on circumstances. The pilot is always behind the actual present moment that the drone exists in, due to the transmission/interpretation time required. In essence the pilot is always flying the drone in the past and never in the present. Human consciousness is exactly the same. All data received by the brain is transmitted along neural pathways to the brain. The brain receives the signals and then determines which signals to allow through to the consciousness and then interprets the neural signals based on past experiences before presenting the data to the consciousness. By the time the consciousness is aware of the signal, the moment of the actual signal’s having been generated has passed. The human consciousness is just like the drone pilot, sitting in a remote location, reading interpreted signals that required time to arrive and process. The consciousness of each individual is not only separated from reality by its body’s mechanical/electrical/chemical systems, it is also operating strictly on past data. So, there is the paradox, the human consciousness exists in the past and the past simply doesn’t exist. Think about this the next time you are in a conversation, be aware that the voice you are hearing isn’t in the present. The person speaking says something, the sound is transmitted as vibration waves passing through the atmosphere, the vibrations go into your ear canal and vibrate your ear drum, the ear drum vibrates small bones, the nerves in and around those bones pick up the signal and transmit electrical signals along an electrical conduit, the electrical pulse eventually arrives in some portion of the brain where it is releases a series of electrical impulses. Those impulses release chemical messengers that travel to chemical receptors then some magic happens that causes your consciousness to recognize the pattern of the signal as a voice with a specific modulation, then the brain also decodes the signal into a syllable attached to another syllable. These syllables are combined and then sent into the memory section of the brain where the brain compares the combined sound pattern with millions of previously experienced sound patterns, after millions of comparisons the brain makes a match and determines that this pattern is recognizable as a specific word, then the brain searches the memory for all instances of the uses of that specific word and determines what the word’s definition is. But wait there’s more because now the brain also compares the many uses of that word to the specific clues surrounding it for context and meaning in this particular instance. Only after all of this is accomplished does the brain present this to the consciousness. By the time the consciousness has the information the word has been spoken in the past. Now go back to paying attention to the conversation as if none of this matters. Since we don't exist, none of this does matter, right? Conversely we always existed in the future, and time is an illusion. Both require a "leap of faith" because there is no evidence to base those conclusions on. Lloyd Tackitt |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 2805786 United States 07/26/2012 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Lloyd Tackitt (OP) User ID: 20185663 United States 07/26/2012 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
GeordieLegend User ID: 4912635 Netherlands 07/26/2012 08:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20569020 Italy 07/26/2012 08:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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rabit hole User ID: 20574542 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 08:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, here is your dilema, all of what you detailed happens in an instant a millisecond of time almost instantaneous, when it comes to the Human perception. The data transmited and recieved and then relayed and returned happens faster than lightening can strike!!! In that moment of time, that minute speck of a millisecond an eternity occured, a whole encyclopedic display of information, emotion, sensory perception, rational/irrational, growth, maturity, reality, understanding and awareness all rush in with a tsunami like explosion!!! All before lightening can hit the ground. Your explanation of what occurs in the process of percieved information is not evidence for non existence but rather evidence of existence. For you to be able to consciously disect a model of operation is proof of reality. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20427931 United States 07/26/2012 08:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
FullMoonRising User ID: 20440709 United States 07/26/2012 08:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Lloyd Tackitt (OP) User ID: 20185663 United States 07/26/2012 08:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Lloyd Tackitt (OP) User ID: 20185663 United States 07/26/2012 08:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Lloyd Tackitt (OP) User ID: 20185663 United States 07/26/2012 08:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, here is your dilema, all of what you detailed happens in an instant a millisecond of time almost instantaneous, when it comes to the Human perception. Quoting: rabit hole 20574542 The data transmited and recieved and then relayed and returned happens faster than lightening can strike!!! In that moment of time, that minute speck of a millisecond an eternity occured, a whole encyclopedic display of information, emotion, sensory perception, rational/irrational, growth, maturity, reality, understanding and awareness all rush in with a tsunami like explosion!!! All before lightening can hit the ground. Your explanation of what occurs in the process of percieved information is not evidence for non existence but rather evidence of existence. For you to be able to consciously disect a model of operation is proof of reality. Reality exists in that infintely small moment we call the present. In fact I could argue that the present is nothing more than a useful convention, but that it doesn't exist either. If that were the case, then time doesn't exist, but is only a convention that our mind applies to the universe in order to make it understandable. Lloyd Tackitt |
Lloyd Tackitt (OP) User ID: 20185663 United States 07/26/2012 08:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20280907 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 08:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, here is your dilema, all of what you detailed happens in an instant a millisecond of time almost instantaneous, when it comes to the Human perception. Quoting: rabit hole 20574542 The data transmited and recieved and then relayed and returned happens faster than lightening can strike!!! In that moment of time, that minute speck of a millisecond an eternity occured, a whole encyclopedic display of information, emotion, sensory perception, rational/irrational, growth, maturity, reality, understanding and awareness all rush in with a tsunami like explosion!!! All before lightening can hit the ground. Your explanation of what occurs in the process of percieved information is not evidence for non existence but rather evidence of existence. For you to be able to consciously disect a model of operation is proof of reality. Reality exists in that infintely small moment we call the present. In fact I could argue that the present is nothing more than a useful convention, but that it doesn't exist either. If that were the case, then time doesn't exist, but is only a convention that our mind applies to the universe in order to make it understandable. The moment does not exist. By the time you've thought about it, it's already in the past. |
rabit hole User ID: 20574542 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 08:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, here is your dilema, all of what you detailed happens in an instant a millisecond of time almost instantaneous, when it comes to the Human perception. Quoting: rabit hole 20574542 The data transmited and recieved and then relayed and returned happens faster than lightening can strike!!! In that moment of time, that minute speck of a millisecond an eternity occured, a whole encyclopedic display of information, emotion, sensory perception, rational/irrational, growth, maturity, reality, understanding and awareness all rush in with a tsunami like explosion!!! All before lightening can hit the ground. Your explanation of what occurs in the process of percieved information is not evidence for non existence but rather evidence of existence. For you to be able to consciously disect a model of operation is proof of reality. Reality exists in that infintely small moment we call the present. In fact I could argue that the present is nothing more than a useful convention, but that it doesn't exist either. If that were the case, then time doesn't exist, but is only a convention that our mind applies to the universe in order to make it understandable. Understanding is awareness, the past exists in recalling the awareness, the future exists in projecting awareness. i.e. I can recount a past experience with accurate detail, otherwise the continuity of this conversation would be non existant, thus I have succesfully brought the past into the present to further validate the past occurance as infact having existed. I can project awareness into the future buy anticipation, I can anticipate the arrival of a planned event. I know that my mother will knock on my door and I will answer it. Because I just spoke to her on the phone I can anticipate a future event and project my awareness of her arrival into the future and thus prepare accordingly. Once you acknowledge awareness you validate past, present and future. If you could claim non existence of past and future, then you just created it. Thus rendering your claim of non existence of no past or future as a misconception of reality. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20280907 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 09:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, here is your dilema, all of what you detailed happens in an instant a millisecond of time almost instantaneous, when it comes to the Human perception. Quoting: rabit hole 20574542 The data transmited and recieved and then relayed and returned happens faster than lightening can strike!!! In that moment of time, that minute speck of a millisecond an eternity occured, a whole encyclopedic display of information, emotion, sensory perception, rational/irrational, growth, maturity, reality, understanding and awareness all rush in with a tsunami like explosion!!! All before lightening can hit the ground. Your explanation of what occurs in the process of percieved information is not evidence for non existence but rather evidence of existence. For you to be able to consciously disect a model of operation is proof of reality. Reality exists in that infintely small moment we call the present. In fact I could argue that the present is nothing more than a useful convention, but that it doesn't exist either. If that were the case, then time doesn't exist, but is only a convention that our mind applies to the universe in order to make it understandable. Understanding is awareness, the past exists in recalling the awareness, the future exists in projecting awareness. i.e. I can recount a past experience with accurate detail, otherwise the continuity of this conversation would be non existant, thus I have succesfully brought the past into the present to further validate the past occurance as infact having existed. I can project awareness into the future buy anticipation, I can anticipate the arrival of a planned event. I know that my mother will knock on my door and I will answer it. Because I just spoke to her on the phone I can anticipate a future event and project my awareness of her arrival into the future and thus prepare accordingly. Once you acknowledge awareness you validate past, present and future. If you could claim non existence of past and future, then you just created it. Thus rendering your claim of non existence of no past or future as a misconception of reality. What the OP is saying goes a lot deeper than your interpretation. The two view points are not talking about the same thing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20574542 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 09:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, here is your dilema, all of what you detailed happens in an instant a millisecond of time almost instantaneous, when it comes to the Human perception. Quoting: rabit hole 20574542 The data transmited and recieved and then relayed and returned happens faster than lightening can strike!!! In that moment of time, that minute speck of a millisecond an eternity occured, a whole encyclopedic display of information, emotion, sensory perception, rational/irrational, growth, maturity, reality, understanding and awareness all rush in with a tsunami like explosion!!! All before lightening can hit the ground. Your explanation of what occurs in the process of percieved information is not evidence for non existence but rather evidence of existence. For you to be able to consciously disect a model of operation is proof of reality. Reality exists in that infintely small moment we call the present. In fact I could argue that the present is nothing more than a useful convention, but that it doesn't exist either. If that were the case, then time doesn't exist, but is only a convention that our mind applies to the universe in order to make it understandable. Understanding is awareness, the past exists in recalling the awareness, the future exists in projecting awareness. i.e. I can recount a past experience with accurate detail, otherwise the continuity of this conversation would be non existant, thus I have succesfully brought the past into the present to further validate the past occurance as infact having existed. I can project awareness into the future buy anticipation, I can anticipate the arrival of a planned event. I know that my mother will knock on my door and I will answer it. Because I just spoke to her on the phone I can anticipate a future event and project my awareness of her arrival into the future and thus prepare accordingly. Once you acknowledge awareness you validate past, present and future. If you could claim non existence of past and future, then you just created it. Thus rendering your claim of non existence of no past or future as a misconception of reality. What the OP is saying goes a lot deeper than your interpretation. The two view points are not talking about the same thing. You should let the OP determine that! And OP can dialogue accordingly. The third wheel thing never turns out good. |
omar User ID: 20095089 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 09:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20280907 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 09:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Lloyd Tackitt Reality exists in that infintely small moment we call the present. In fact I could argue that the present is nothing more than a useful convention, but that it doesn't exist either. If that were the case, then time doesn't exist, but is only a convention that our mind applies to the universe in order to make it understandable. Understanding is awareness, the past exists in recalling the awareness, the future exists in projecting awareness. i.e. I can recount a past experience with accurate detail, otherwise the continuity of this conversation would be non existant, thus I have succesfully brought the past into the present to further validate the past occurance as infact having existed. I can project awareness into the future buy anticipation, I can anticipate the arrival of a planned event. I know that my mother will knock on my door and I will answer it. Because I just spoke to her on the phone I can anticipate a future event and project my awareness of her arrival into the future and thus prepare accordingly. Once you acknowledge awareness you validate past, present and future. If you could claim non existence of past and future, then you just created it. Thus rendering your claim of non existence of no past or future as a misconception of reality. What the OP is saying goes a lot deeper than your interpretation. The two view points are not talking about the same thing. You should let the OP determine that! And OP can dialogue accordingly. The third wheel thing never turns out good. On an open discussion board? Arrogant twat…. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20568978 Germany 07/26/2012 09:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I always knew you were confused. Thread: Your'e a Racist, Deal With It (Page 6) Why are you sure, we dont exist, yet racism exists? |
rabit hole User ID: 20574542 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 09:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: rabit hole 20574542 Understanding is awareness, the past exists in recalling the awareness, the future exists in projecting awareness. i.e. I can recount a past experience with accurate detail, otherwise the continuity of this conversation would be non existant, thus I have succesfully brought the past into the present to further validate the past occurance as infact having existed. I can project awareness into the future buy anticipation, I can anticipate the arrival of a planned event. I know that my mother will knock on my door and I will answer it. Because I just spoke to her on the phone I can anticipate a future event and project my awareness of her arrival into the future and thus prepare accordingly. Once you acknowledge awareness you validate past, present and future. If you could claim non existence of past and future, then you just created it. Thus rendering your claim of non existence of no past or future as a misconception of reality. What the OP is saying goes a lot deeper than your interpretation. The two view points are not talking about the same thing. You should let the OP determine that! And OP can dialogue accordingly. The third wheel thing never turns out good. On an open discussion board? Arrogant twat…. Arrogance??? LOL the arrogance is in assuming that I was conversating with anyone except OP! If you wish to pull up along side OP and tickle his ego, be my guest! Go right on and discuss the matter with OP. My dialogue with OP was directed towards OP not you. OP may have generated an open discussion with whomever finds interest but my dialogue was with OP not you. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 10968140 Moldova 07/26/2012 09:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20280907 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 09:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20280907 What the OP is saying goes a lot deeper than your interpretation. The two view points are not talking about the same thing. You should let the OP determine that! And OP can dialogue accordingly. The third wheel thing never turns out good. On an open discussion board? Arrogant twat…. Arrogance??? LOL the arrogance is in assuming that I was conversating with anyone except OP! If you wish to pull up along side OP and tickle his ego, be my guest! Go right on and discuss the matter with OP. My dialogue with OP was directed towards OP not you. OP may have generated an open discussion with whomever finds interest but my dialogue was with OP not you. It's clear the OP is talking about 'actual' time. You are talking about 'perceived' local time. It’s the difference between 99.9% empty space and the machine you used to post your message. IE, what he is saying is beyond your intelligence to comprehend… |
MutantMessiah User ID: 11481360 United States 07/26/2012 09:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, does that really qualify as "proof" of non-existence or perhaps just that we have lag because our minds have trained themselves to compensate for the latency issues that our senses have? We interact here pushing forward in a sequence of frames that are limited only by our ability to perceive our environment. The drone metaphor was perfect. A drone "pilot" does not identify the drone as part of him/herself, though it's common in modern society to identify our "body" as who we are. In reality the body, like a drone, is just a sensor suite providing a data stream, in this moment and the speed at which we receive the data is based on it's ability to process the information in a way we can perceive it. The proof you provide may not be for non-existence but instead that we are non-existent in a material body-centric sense. Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20574542 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 09:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20574542 You should let the OP determine that! And OP can dialogue accordingly. The third wheel thing never turns out good. On an open discussion board? Arrogant twat…. Arrogance??? LOL the arrogance is in assuming that I was conversating with anyone except OP! If you wish to pull up along side OP and tickle his ego, be my guest! Go right on and discuss the matter with OP. My dialogue with OP was directed towards OP not you. OP may have generated an open discussion with whomever finds interest but my dialogue was with OP not you. It's clear the OP is talking about 'actual' time. You are talking about 'perceived' local time. It’s the difference between 99.9% empty space and the machine you used to post your message. IE, what he is saying is beyond your intelligence to comprehend… Once again, "You should let the OP determine that!" Perhaps I didn't make myself clear when I said, "The third wheel thing never turns out good." So let me make myself clear, Fuck off, I do not wish to engage further in your antics, my interest is with OPs analysis I have zero inerest in engaging your intellect. Stop talking to me, don't respond. My conversation was not with you! You butted in, so kindly fuck off! (moron will still reply though) dense. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20280907 United Kingdom 07/26/2012 10:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Arrogance??? LOL the arrogance is in assuming that I was conversating with anyone except OP! If you wish to pull up along side OP and tickle his ego, be my guest! Go right on and discuss the matter with OP. My dialogue with OP was directed towards OP not you. OP may have generated an open discussion with whomever finds interest but my dialogue was with OP not you. It's clear the OP is talking about 'actual' time. You are talking about 'perceived' local time. It’s the difference between 99.9% empty space and the machine you used to post your message. IE, what he is saying is beyond your intelligence to comprehend… Once again, "You should let the OP determine that!" Perhaps I didn't make myself clear when I said, "The third wheel thing never turns out good." So let me make myself clear, Fuck off, I do not wish to engage further in your antics, my interest is with OPs analysis I have zero inerest in engaging your intellect. Stop talking to me, don't respond. My conversation was not with you! You butted in, so kindly fuck off! (moron will still reply though) dense. Standard response:- Attack when you don't have the intellect to make a good argument. Oh please... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20568978 Germany 07/26/2012 10:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 8846775 United States 07/26/2012 10:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |