What type of monster God sends my loved ones into hell...

Yes I did.......but you're still evading question...Soooo
I guess that will have to be a "no"....right?

I can see how some might look at it that way. I myself was one who jumped on the band wagon with my "free ticket out of hell" years and years ago. Since then, I have come to think that people who do that don't really know the Father......which, knowing Him, is His desire.

It's true that He will judge the heart, as well as our deeds and many will be saved but will have no rewards, and will have lots of hay and stubble to be burned up.

The truth also is, there are some, maybe even many who are truly evil....who have no love of truth or even love itself. These are the ones who I believe will just be burned up.

The thing is, with universalism, if all people are saved to reign with our King, no matter how evil they are the character of our Creator is obliterated. While He is a Creator and not a "destroyer" ... to be made in His image, we also must be creators and not destroyers. If we live our lives in opposition to His image, by AHYH's own definition, we will be destroyed. Otherwise, AHYH would be a liar by His own standards.

Our King ransomed mankind, but being ransomed, or bought with a price, is not the only condition that is part of His eternal covenant. He also pardons...... but pardon only comes with repentance.

I believe I am understanding you to say that after a certain amount of time everyone will come to a state of repentance at which time they will be pardoned. I don't hold that belief........I believe they will be burned up before they will repent. Only ha satan et al will remain for eternity to stare into the face of AHYH.

Why did they ever give up on the fire and brimstone, animal butchering badass God? That would get me to church, not the weakling effeminate whoopsy daisy Save-the-Africans agenda they're pushing nowadays.

God is an asshole.

The key (which I guess I've considered an implied given in all this) is that those "evil" people will *not* be saved as-is - God's judgments are designed to change the hearts. Jonah and Isaiah both give us the bottom line of the process:

Jonah 2: I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction,
And He answered me.

Isaiah 26: For when Your judgments are in the earth,
The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Hopefully we as christians understand this process firsthand, assuming we were ever sinners. . .though many christians, I can only conclude, must never have been sinners based on how effortlessly they condemn and scorn sinners. One would think if they were ever fallen and lost, they would have some trace of compassion or empathy for the masses in such conditions. Like the Pharisees they think they're Somebody because of their status with God. They think they've *done* something to merit salvation.

They also don't trust that God can change anyone, even the worst of us, and applaud Him for allegedly disposing of them.

Furthermore, we might want to look at the bible's definition of "destruction":
Deuteronomy 4 warns the Israelites that they'll be destroyed (also apollymi in the Septuagint) when they adopt the ways of the heathen and serve idols. This "destruction" of the children of Israel is defined there as being scattered among the nations to serve more idols, and includes the provision that when they finally seek God, they'll find Him, because God is merciful and will not(?) destroy them. We can see here that "destruction" is not absolutely an annihilation in which persons cease to exist, yes? In this case, it's referring to earthly difficulties. People use the term "destroy" in the same exact allegorical manner today, usually when talking about merely defeating someone or "putting them in their place". Nevertheless, we've been brainwashed via Religion's fossilized mindset that "destruction" unquestionably equals the disastrous and eternal ruin of one's soul with no remedy or recourse whatsoever.

And repentance is a gift from God. The whole 9 yards is His doing, as the Author and Finisher of our faith.

(Manasseh) Kings: For he rebuilt the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed; he raised up altars for Baal, and made a wooden image, as Ahab king of Israel had done; and he worshiped all the host of heaven and served them. He also built altars in the house of the Lord, of which the Lord had said, “In Jerusalem I will put My name.” And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the Lord. Also he made his son pass through the fire, practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft, and consulted spiritists and mediums. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger. He even set a carved image of Asherah that he had made, in the house of which the Lord had said to David and to Solomon his son, “In this house and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put My name forever; and I will not make the feet of Israel wander anymore from the land which I gave their fathers; only if they are careful to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that My servant Moses commanded them.” But they paid no attention, and Manasseh seduced them to do more evil than the nations whom the Lord had destroyed before the children of Israel.

*

Have you ever read the prayer of Manasseh?

Do you think Hitler should be in Hell?

where in scripture do you see that our repenting is a gift from God? Grace, faith, mercy......these are gifts from God. Our act of repenting? I do believe that comes from our own being, our choosing to listen to Him.

2 Timothy 2 mentions God *giving* someone repentance . Also, Acts 11:18 talks abut God *granting* repentance to the nations.

Furthermore, Jesus says "apart from me you can do nothing." How likely is it that He really meant "except repent"?

And even going deeper on the question of repentance, consider that on the cross, Jesus forgave those who nailed Him up there - we know there's no way they were repentant, because they didn't even know what they had done.

---

Christianity Inc. is notorious for raising the bar so they can claim special privilege over the unclean masses. Modern Pharisees have reduced salvation to a work of the flesh and revel in casting judgment on those who haven't yet jumped through this carnal hoop. Ultimately, christians largely don't understand salvation. They don't grasp that the old man has to "die" to allow Christ to reign within them in newness of life, and that the method God uses to accomplish this is "fiery trials".

The core difference between those truly following Christ and those not yet saved is merely the timing of their ordeals. To be In Christ, our old self has to be reckoned dead. If he remains on our internal throne, there's a problem, and we aren't graduating until it's dealt with. Walking the hard road is inevitable.
God is no respecter of persons, and "All will be salted with fire".
If we think we get a free ride for reciting a sinners prayer, we've missed the whole point. We can either yield to the fire now voluntarily, or do our best to postpone them until it's no longer optional.

---

The Prodigal left home to indulge in his fleshly pursuits, and against popular Christian inclination the Father *let* him do so. After a time, he "came to himself" and recognized his plight, and willingly headed home, without being manipulated by any arm-twisting or religious lecture. And who bitched and pouted at the happy return? The jealous religious sibling, who felt he deserved special treatment for staying put instead of running off to squander the family fortune.

---

"Where sin abounds, grace doth much more abound", yes? Or no?

Not recently, and it's not something I'm very familiar with.

Can you imagine the audacity?
Little pieces of mud judging
the Creator of the Universe!!!???
The perfect infinite all powerful, all loving,
all knowing ruler of Heaven and Earth,
being called on the carpet by His creatures?

God makes the rules. You belong to him.
Every atom in the universe was created by Him.
It ALL belongs to Him.
HE WILL tell you what He expects of you.
HE WILL dispose of you as HE sees fit.

Read the Bible from cover to cover and you will
learn who it is that you are dealing with.

Perhaps you will also learn humility.

1 O Lord, Almighty God of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and of their righteous seed; who hast made heaven and earth, with all the ornament thereof; who hast bound the sea by the word of thy commandment; who hast shut up the deep, and sealed it by thy terrible and glorious name; whom all men fear, and tremble before thy power; for the majesty of thy glory cannot be borne, and thine angry threatening toward sinners is importable: but thy merciful promise is unmeasurable and unsearchable; for thou art the most high Lord, of great compassion, longsuffering, very merciful, and repentest of the evils of men. Thou, O Lord, according to thy great goodness hast promised repentance and forgiveness to them that have sinned against thee: and of thine infinite mercies hast appointed repentance unto sinners, that they may be saved. Thou therefore, O Lord, that art the God of the just, hast not appointed repentance to the just, as to Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, which have not sinned against thee; but thou hast appointed repentance unto me that am a sinner: for I have sinned above the number of the sands of the sea. My transgressions, O Lord, are multiplied: my transgressions are multiplied, and I am not worthy to behold and see the height of heaven for the multitude of mine iniquities. I am bowed down with many iron bands, that I cannot life up mine head, neither have any release: for I have provoked thy wrath, and done evil before thee: I did not thy will, neither kept I thy commandments: I have set up abominations, and have multiplied offences. Now therefore I bow the knee of mine heart, beseeching thee of grace. I have sinned, O Lord, I have sinned, and I acknowledge mine iniquities: wherefore, I humbly beseech thee, forgive me, O Lord, forgive me, and destroy me not with mine iniquites. Be not angry with me for ever, by reserving evil for me; neither condemn me to the lower parts of the earth. For thou art the God, even the God of them that repent; and in me thou wilt shew all thy goodness: for thou wilt save me, that am unworthy, according to thy great mercy. Therefore I will praise thee for ever all the days of my life: for all the powers of the heavens do praise thee, and thine is the glory for ever and ever. Amen.

@ sacred texts dot com

2 Timothy also says this: “The Lord knows his own,”[a]

and,

“Let everyone who claims he belongs to the Lord
stand apart from wrongdoing.”

the god of the old testament sure acts like a dick

I think there is a bigger god, tho

you only know what you know of Hitler as much as TPTB want s you to know about him!

To make himself an enemy of TPTB he must have touch on a sensitive string! Whatever he discovered could have saved humanity! But history books always lies to us because they are writen by TPTB. Let's just say tptb don't really like telling the truth!

Abraham did it to His face in Genesis 18, and my understanding is that this guy has a pretty decent standing with God ;)

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow how these relate to the topic. . .?

I don't understand how you can not follow the relationship? 2 Timothy 2 does not support universalism at all, and the two verses I posted are very clear about that. The Lord knows His own......not everybody is "His own."

And if you ARE His, you (anyone) will cease from wrongdoing (repent).

May I suggest reading Numbers 16? In particular, verses 5 and 26 ~ then read Nahum 1, in particular verse 7.

Tired of seeing this one.

Its called free will. You/they do it.

Bravo! well said.

Bravo! well said.

Agreed, 100%. But not everyone is there yet. Most people will not come into redemption until after they die.



I'll have a look

Unfortunately, not everyone is as wise and exemplary as those pious Super-Christians who were bright enough to repent without any need of the Holy Spirit's intervention ;)

The Same ONE that would allow HIS SON die
to allow for the salvation of each individual!

Did the Son visit visit those in death during
His time of death and give the dead the
Opportunity to Believe and obey?