Heaven or Hell? You choose

Not like they are happening now......no way. But, if you want to believe that, feel free.

God Bless You OP!

What I'd like to know is what does 'God' get out of it all? An entire universe at his disposal and he chooses to set up a long running soap opera, of which he is the script writer and director.

He knows the outcome! He knows the devil loses because he set it up that way.
He knows who lives and who dies, who wins and who loses.
He knows everything down to the last detail...to what end?
Boredom?
An ego the size of the universe?

Look at me! I'm the big old good guy and I need to be worshipped.
So he creates all of this bullshit to justify his own existence...

Would you watch 6oo million hour movie if you knew how it ended?

Bah!

[link to www.tentmaker.org]

"Hell" Was Not a Doctrine of the Early Church:

Popular myth: Universalism was recently introduced to Christianity in the 1800's as the church became more liberal and modern and began to abandon their true biblical foundation. This is not true! A belief in the restitution of all things was a standard view in the early church, held by the majority of early Christians. It has also been held by a minority throughout all of church history even during the Dark Ages.

Think about it..

If Hell was real, why did the first comparatively complete systematic statement of Christian doctrine ever given to the world by Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 180, contain the tenet of universal salvation?

If Hell was real, why did the first complete presentation of Christianity (Origen, 220 A.D.) contain the doctrine of universal salvation?

If Hell was real, why do neither the Apostles Creed, nor the Nicean Creed, two foundational "doctrinal statements" for the early church, contain the concept of Hell?

If Hell was real, why did Church leaders as late as the fourth century AD acknowledge that the majority of Christians believed in the salvation of all mankind?

If Hell was real why did the early church appoint an avowed universalist as the President of the second council of the church of Constantinope in the fourth century? (Gregory Nazianzen, 325-381).

If Hell was real why did not a single Church council for the first five hundred years condemn Universalism as heresy considering the fact that they made many declarations of heresy on other teachings?

If Hell was real why didn't Epiphanius (c. 315-403) the "hammer of heretics" who listed 80 heresies of his time not list universalism among those heresies?

If Hell was real, since most historians would acknowledge today that Origen was perhaps the most outstanding example of universalism in the church, when Methodius, Eusibius, Pamphilus, Marcellus, Eustathius, and Jerome made their lists of Origen's heresies, why wasn't universalism among them?

If Hell was real and found in the original Greek manuscripts of the Bible, why is it that it was primarily those church leaders who either couldn't read Greek (For example, Minucius Felix), or hated Greek as in the case of Augustine, that the doctrine of Hell was advocated? Those early church leaders familiar with the Greek and Hebrew (the original languages of the Bible) saw universal salvation in those texts. Those who advocated Hell got it from the Latin, not from the original Greek and Hebrew. Who would more likely be correct--those who could read the original languages of the Bible or those who read a Latin translation made by one man (Jerome)?

If Hell was real then why did four out of six theological schools from 170 AD to 430 AD teach universal salvation while the only one that taught Hell was in Carthage, Africa, again were Latin was the teaching language, not Greek?

If Hell was real and a serious heresy, why was it not until the sixth century when Justinian, a half-pagan emperor, tried to make universalism a heresy? Interestingly, most historians will acknowledge that Justinian's reign was among the most cruel and ruthless.

*The historical facts documented in the above section can all be verified through the books, "Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Early Church for the First 500 Years" by J.W. Hanson and "The History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Retribution" by Edward Beecher.

Hell does not reflect the heart of God:

Popular myth: The justice of God demands a place like Hell in which the wicked shall be eternally punished for their sins. Not true! The justice of God demanded a perfect sacrifice for sin, and that man was Christ Jesus. The justice of God will certainly come to every person, and God may deal severely with our sins as He subdues and gathers all things to Christ, but to punish people endlessly for crimes committed in a short human lifespan defies all logic and justice. How is it just to have unending punishment for offenses that have limits?

Think about it....

If Hell is real and all things were made for God's pleasure (Rev. 4:11), is it conceivable that God would derive pleasure from seeing those He created endlessly tortured? God says He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ez. 33:11).

If Hell is a real place of endless torment, and God didn't want anyone to end up there, why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve and end the long terrible chain of misery that passed to their offspring before it began? After all, the Scriptures say that all died because of Adam. (Rom. 5:18)

If Hell is real, if God loves His enemies now, will he not always love them? Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

If Hell is real, if you had sufficient power would you not deliver all men from sin? If God would save all men, but cannot , is He infinite in power?

If Hell is real, and God can save all men, but will not , is He infinite in goodness and mercy?

If Hell is real, since God will have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3 KJV), does that mean God's power is not strong enough to have His will fulfilled?

If Hell is real and Jesus teaches us to forgive seventy times seven and yet He Himself will never offer forgiveness to anyone after they die, does that not make Him a hypocrite?

If Hell is real and God's wrath abides upon billions of human beings forever, doesn't that violate the Scripture which says His anger will come to an end? (Isaiah 57:16-18)

If Hell is real and God only loves those who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

If Hell is real, since some people receive many chances to "get saved," some receive only a few chances and billions have never even received one chance, does that make God a respecter of persons? (Acts 10:34, James 3:17). After all, billions of people have been born and died on this earth without a chance to ever hear the name of Jesus, the "only name under heaven by which men may be saved."

If there is a Hell and all who have sinned are destined to go there (which is everyone) unless they figure out how to avoid it, does that not consign all aborted babies and non-Christian children to Hell? (While some denominations teach a so-called "age of accountability," it is not found anywhere in the Bible. It is just some people's way of trying to make God more humane than the eternal torment teaching makes Him out to be).

If Hell is real, does that mean that motherly love is more powerful and enduring than God's love? Do you know of normal parents who would endlessly torment most of their kids? Why do we believe our heavenly Father, Who is millions of times more loving than all of us combined, could do such an evil, wicked thing?

If Hell is real, why does the human spirit writhe under the horror of wars and prison camps, torture chambers and dictators? How can we judge these things as wrong, if Hell is real? After all, Hell far eclipses these earthly torments which came from the most sinful and beastly part of humanity. We say God is grieved by man's violence and disregard for life, and yet believe that He Himself enforces the same principles for all eternity!

If Hell is real, how would endless misery benefit the Almighty, as the inflictor? How would endless misery benefit the saints, as spectators? How would endless misery benefit the sinner, as the sufferer?

If Hell is real, how does the threat of endlessly torturing us convince us that God loves us and that we should love Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength?

FACT: While the church has gotten used to thinking of God as Someone who was forced to design a grandiose punishment called Hell, and against His own will sends the majority of His creation there, this concept of a God "who did the best He could" is totally against the Scriptural view of a God who is absolutely sovereign, powerful, all-wise and all-victorious. He never had to come up with a plan B or C, for Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It is time to give Him the glory He deserves for our God is truly awesome and wonderful far beyond the limited, and man-centered views of Him!

Yep, you are correct. And even after being rude, egotistical, self-absorbed, unfaithful to their partners, nasty, angry, self-righteous, full of pride, lacking love, etc., they STILL think they are going to heaven for the simple reason that they believe some man died for THEM. How selfish can you be? Top that off with the fact that most of them are born into families that feed them that garbage from birth.

They readily believe that people who are born in a country where their parents teach them that Buddhism, Islam, Hindu, etc., is correct will go directly to hell, no questions asked. They can be very good people but God just HAS to send them to hell. If you don't believe in Jesus, you are going to hell. You can be a self-absorbed creep but if you believe in Jesus, you go to heaven. How stupid can people really be? I sometimes wonder.

yes, they are.

earthquakes have destroyed entire cities over history.

mass animal deaths have actually slowed down but have always happened.

NWO (while many of us believe it) isnt actually provable

increase in evil is very vague but no one alive today compares with some of the evil we have seen in the past (Hitler etc)

less christians are presecuted today then in early christianity.

"gods name" hasnt been removed from much, infact the we ADDED it to our money.

so tell me. what is different today than before to make you believe we are near the end?

I've read a few of his pages on his site before, and although I'd like to believe it, I can't. Jesus's own words testify against this.

A person can't believe in universal salvation and also believe what is written in the Bible, specifically the NT. They just don't go together.

Here is my redemption

It is "knowing" that there are special people in the world and they speak to the Youth. 'Adults' murder them for personal reasons and back their actions up while hiding behind any moral tool within reach.

Our History Class with a good Teacher:

Asleep



Under his helmet, up against his pack,
After so many days of work and waking,
Sleep took him by the brow and laid him back.

There, in the happy no-time of his sleeping,
Death took him by the heart. There heaved a quaking
Of the aborted life within him leaping,
Then chest and sleepy arms once more fell slack.

And soon the slow, stray blood came creeping
From the intruding lead, like ants on track.

Whether his deeper sleep lie shaded by the shaking
Of great wings, and the thoughts that hung the stars,
High-pillowed on calm pillows of God's making,
Above these clouds, these rains, these sleets of lead,
And these winds' scimitars,
-Or whether yet his thin and sodden head
Confuses more and more with the low mould,
His hair being one with the grey grass
Of finished fields, and wire-scrags rusty-old,
Who knows? Who hopes? Who troubles? Let it pass!
He sleeps. He sleeps less tremulous, less cold,
Than we who wake, and waking say Alas!


Wilfred Owen

They murdered him in some field by a river!

[link to www.youtube.com]

he was murdered by a religious nut

[link to www.youtube.com]

he was murdered in the land of the free

[link to www.youtube.com]

he was genius and saw no way out...


Maybe your are right...

Last Edited by Lips Of Lucifer on 01/16/2013 11:33 AM

So you finally believe? I knew you fought me tooth and nail on this and the heaven thing you will soon come understand later on

What are you talking about Neim? I've been preaching on hell for years.

You have me confused with someone else.

Hey Brief, I didn't know you were a Frank Zappa fan. If you haven't heard it, look up FZ's "Titties n' Beer". Great song, and album. It'll tell you who's got your "Titties n' Beer".

"Did you eat my Chrissy?
Devil; Titties and all!
Well what about the beers then boy?
Devil; Uh, were the cans this tall?"

Any musician with HIS kind of creativity, and sense of humor at the same time is where I'd like to end up for eternity.

Wherever Frank is now, that's where I want to be.

But, apparently you can't answer the "honest questions" which I have pasted here today!

I don't have the time, energy or desire to read through walls of text to answer questions that you won't even accept anyway.

You're free to believe as you wish tho.

There are no threats of violence on here. Find them! You want to coax someone into it. I know your methods. They don't work here.

Our Father said the sign that would be given to a faithless generation would be the sign of Jonah. As Jonah saw darkness in the belly of the whale for three days; so shall be the darkness before the coming of the Son of Man. Then a faithless generation will believe.

Now as knowing who the enemy of Christ is. I will show you the intent and design behind in just small part.

Man of perdition
Logic dictates that the number of man for this time as stated in Revelation is something that deals with the spirit of the antichrist as well as an actual person. Therefore, if God is the author of life, and his Son is our Savior then a warfront would be created at the edge of eternal life itself.

My research and visions on this subject are quite extensive, and I will summarize what I have found on this subject to a Reader's Digest type version.

Solomon receiving 666 gold talents per year is important and symbolic. It indicates a power (even if for a short time) resided in the hands of a Man of God. I am quite sure the exercise of this was to the displeasure of satan. Even in the end of its use though, Solomon died. But it gives us a clue to what is really going on here.

There are two ways to calculate the mark of the beast, and after you see what I have found in addition to what has been presented before you will see that it is virtually impossible for this to occur by coincidence. One method is the gematria version where 6 is added for each letter and summed, and a second form where A to Z is assigned 1 to 26 values and reduced to one number per word by addition of letter values. I will use both methods.

The three dimensional form of the Star of David is also called the Holy Merkaba. It stands to reason that the Author of Life would use a seed of life. It is a centerpiece of the flag of his chosen people. Use the first method on "Holy Merkaba", and you will be shocked to find that in addition to the obvious of it being two dimensionally represented as a six pointed star, it also has the sum of 666. If man of flesh is mortal, then it is easy to see when temptation is accepted that this is a crossroads of sorts where the decision is to look into darkness as opposed to light occurs.

For interpretation from a human perspective looking at the spiritual battleground, this is at the very forefront of the battle where the seed of life is. This easily explains why satan acquired the name lucifer to be a false light bearer of this world.

What I have been given over the years is an understanding of what this number means here on earth. It states in the bible that unless the days are shortened no flesh will be saved, but for the elect's sake it will be. OK, apparently God finds at least some flesh worthy to be saved in these endtimes. He also feels for that to occur then days must be shortened. Why? Let's see what a current day whose design in antiquity yields in the second method of numerology. 60 seconds = 1 minute. 6 + 0 = 6. 60 minutes = 1 hour 6 + 0 = 6. 24 hours = 1 day 2 + 4 = 6. Thus, the components of the day yield 666. You have to ask yourself why we would use sixes to begin with when most of the measurements systems in place today use a decimal system with increments of ten.

This goes further in dark design. As a result of spiritual conflict the very words you utter for good or bad come forth. This is evident in the method of destruction used by the darkside to both hack and reverse language. A few examples are as follows: live to evil, lived to devil, time to emit, suez to zeus, love to evolution, sonoma (bohemian grove area) the hacking of The Son of Man.

Let's look at the letter X. It is the 24th letter of the alphabet, and in my opinion the key to revealing the antichrist that is to come and his dark works. He is said to be a man of perdition; so, by his methods he would be known. For that to occur in the form of the abomination of desolation immorality would have to be overt. Quite obviously, the throngs of humanity would need to be primed in darkness. This is already taking place with pornography which is known by XXX which is sometimes used in jest to name poison. X is the 24th letter of the alphabet 2 + 4 = 6; so, again you see the number 666 is derived.

Now, if you believe three dimensional prison is before you then the word matrix takes new meaning. Man cut to "ma" and tri X or three Xs. Again 666. This is further enforced by the observation of the letter naming of the sex chromosomes. If sin went into woman first, then logic would dictate that darknesses' methods would be to destroy man through woman to a degree. You have two X chromosomes and one in man. If he looks into lust, then the XXX (666) is formed, and if looks towards the Y then a 7 is formed 2 +5 = 7. My contention is this is a matrix because the episode of our Savior walking on water and Peter for a brief instant was actually walking in the truth.

The X has been used throughout history. We have X replacing Christ in Christmas. Why? We have a day of worship Sunday that is not consistent with the bible. So you have a symbol "X" that in some versions of the bible states that the condemned will have their foreheads marked with the X and dresses in sackcloth and ashes as they march through the streets of Jerusalem.

To me it clearly indicates a method is being set in place to usher in the antichrist. he will be called apollyon a derivative for the sun god apollo and son of false god zeus (suez). The primary day of worship is already "Sun" day and the very day used to observe our Savior's birth is now called "X"mas that in many cases is a cursed symbol.

Just look at the tv shows with X being used and on two that I know of three Xs are used either above or on the stages. This last generation is "X". And even the Union Jack has the cross breaking the X which would indicate a victory of Christ over the antichrist. This same pattern exists in the plaza at the Vatican. Look at Nostradamus' drawings.

I used the calculator someone posted in another thread to bring up some of the words that added to a value of 666 using the first method. It is quite startling.

GMO wheats 666 (manipulation of bread of life)
Jet stream 666 (manipulation of weather)
HIV carrier 666
helicopter 666
jet airplane 666
space crafts 666
computer 666
drug wars 666
fluoridate 666 (poison water supply)
New Mexico 666 only state I know of with 666 hwy and numerous top secret places including the Roswell crash.
illusion 666
Deustchland 666
Cabo San Lucas 666 (land's end?}
blood stain 666
sex magicks 666
gehenna fires 666
America sins 666
demonistic 666
Marylander 666
pentagons 666
Fort Sill 666
dark matter 666
morgellon 666
peninsula 666 ( clue to land most likely to be threatened in judgment?)
Sun City 666 ( I find this interesting that one poster was making a claim to an attack on Phoenix (hacked word for Phoenician "X" condemned foreheads symbol and word for firebird) is a suburb of that city) I don't want to be an alarmist here. Personally, I don't see anything happening there. Just thought this was a little strange.
San Fernando 666
San Clemente 666
Yosemite 666 (Strange activities and disappearances have taken place there)
human bodies 666
black panther 666
electrons 666
atomic chart 666
dishonored 666
blackened sun 666
Check out where the ip address 6.6.6.0 or 33.0.0.0 is for that matter. Google ip address locator.
I even have the name of the man that fits this mold. Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. So; obviously, he was here, is now gone, but will return. We also know that there will be a mortal headwound involving the right eye and shoulder. Then they will be miraculoulsy healed. Apparently, what was here will possess something that dies with dark resurrection.

Mystery of the fig tree.

Notice the key is 9/11 and the answer is in 21/21. John said that 21was a big number to satan. Appears Christ doesn't mind answering with thekeys to the Kingdom there either.
I'll let you in on a little secret. Not many know this, but it will come out. Look at Judges 9:11 as follows: 11 “But the fig tree replied, ‘Should I give up my fruit, so good and sweet, to hold sway over the trees?" interesting that a tree speaks, is in a quandry about foresaking sweet fruit instead of holding sway over trees.

Now look at what Jesus did. Matthew 21:19-2319 And seeing a fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it but leaves, and said to it, “Let no fruit grow on you ever again.” Immediately the fig tree withered away.

The Lesson of the Withered Fig Tree

20 And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither away so soon?”

21 So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done. 22 And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”

The point he is trying to make is that the fig tree was the tree of knowledge. It had a false fruit of evil that would not grow for him. He cursed the tree and told it to never grow fruit again. We can do this as well if we choose to work for the Kingdom of God and do only good and reject the lies of satan that begin in the false fruit of the fig tree.

In the beginning when satan told Eve she could be as God, the whole point was to create doubt. Christ is telling you to reject the fruit and restore complete faith in God and remove doubt.

If the traditional teaching of Hell is real..

How can mercy triumph over judgment? (James 2:13)

How can it be true that, "where sin abounded grace did much more abound?" (Rom. 5:20)

When will all flesh come to God? (Psalm 65:2-4)

When will the poor of the earth be avenged and comforted by God? (Psalm 113:7, Psalm 140:12, Proverbs 14:31, Proverbs 19:17, Proverbs 31:9, Isaiah 11:4, Isaiah 61:1, Jeremiah 22:16 etc.) (Bear in mind that most of the poor of the earth throughout history have not had a chance to accept Jesus as their savior).

When shall it come to pass that: "On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine- the best of meats and the finest of wines. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. The LORD has spoken" (Isaiah 26:6-8).

When and how will "all nations" praise Him, come to Him, serve Him, be blessed in Him and bow to Him? (Psalm 45:17, Ps. 86:9, Isaiah 62:11, Daniel 7:14 Ps 66:1, Ps 72:11, Ps 102:15, Jer. 3:17, Ps 72:17, Isa. 2:2, Isa. 11:10, Isa. 52:10, Rev. 5:13 etc.)

How can the world be reconciled to God? (2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 11;5, Romans 5:10).

Why would Paul the apostle say the goal of God's creative plan was to ultimately be "all in all?" (1 Cor. 15:28)

How can it be true that God, Who works all things according to the counsel of His will, shall gather together all things in Christ, in the fullness of the times? (Ephesians 1:9-11)

How can Paul insist that "For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things" (Romans 11:36).

How can the most often-repeated Biblical description of God be true? "His mercy endures forever" (literally, "His mercy/lovingkindness endures for the ages"). Certainly, as long as there are ages, and people in need of mercy, God's mercy will endure.

How and when can there ever be a "restitution of all things?" (Acts 3:21)

Very true, but people have ALWAYS needed religion. Men worshiped the sun, moon and stars for years. Every single age of mankind had some kind of God. People need religion because they are weak. They can't face the world without their fantasy of some god in the sky who listens to them weep and wail and answers their prayers. They never THINK. That is the problem. THINKING and ASKING QUESTIONS is what NO Xian will do. They are taught to just blindly accept whatever bullshit someone feeds them, as long as it gives them that warm and fuzzy feeling.

I always think that most Xians have never grown up. They can't give up their security blanket. It would be so easy if they just used their brains and had a heart and had some courage. Sounds like the Wizard of OZ but it is true. Do donkeys talk using human language, for one out of many examples? The Bible says they do so the silly human just believes it without question. This is a perfect example of a person who does not THINK. They would laugh if this story was told in another book but because it is in their special book, they blindly believe it without thinking.

As for having no heart, could YOU punish your beloved child or loved one in a lake of fire forever? No of course not. Most of you that honestly love people could never do this. But these nut job Xians WORSHIP a being who torments or tortures people forever. How heartless can you be? They only care about themselves so that explains it. They are selfish and self-centered. They have no heart and no brain, either. Jesus tells us to love our enemies. What a fucking hypocrite. He burns his enemies in a lake of fire forever. Why should I worship Jesus? He is an idiot.

And courage comes into play because Xians cannot face what they really are. It would KILL these egomaniacs if they had to imagine they were just like the animals. Just like you don't think your cat or dog lives forever (Even though I am sure some silly Xians do), they think they are special. They can't accept their own mortality so they are cowardly. This is what all religions exist on. They exist on the fact that people can't accept the fact that they are mortal. This is a sad state of affairs.

A Final Test

We have tested the doctrine of Hell against many different Biblical topics and concepts and found it wanting. When scrutinized in the light of the entire counsel of Scripture, the doctrine of Hell is found to be full of holes. Now, test this doctrine against your own heart and see whether it can stand. Please take some time and prayerfully ask yourself these questions:

If there is a Hell and according to most denominations of Christianity the majority of mankind will go there, could you really enjoy heaven knowing your mother or father or children or best friend are suffering everlasting tortures the likes of which would make the Holocaust seem like a picnic?

If Hell is real, will you judge your mother, son, or other non-believers to Hell ? "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world"? And if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to this life?" 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

If Hell is real and a place of terrible, unending pain, could you even send a dog to such a place?

If Hell is real and universalism is a heresy, why is it that those who believe God loves all and will save all find it easier to love all people than those who believe most people are going to Hell? (Think this through very carefully.)

If Hell is real, can you honestly rejoice in the victory, love, and wisdom of God, knowing that somewhere in His beautiful creation there will always be a black and stinking hell-hole crammed full of tortured souls who have no chance for relief or forgiveness--or even death? Even if there was only one person left in such a state, how could all of Heaven rejoice for all eternity knowing that there was still one soul who had not been touched by the victory of Christ and was suffering alone?

Is it good to desire all men to be saved? "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim.2:3,4).

. Do you ardently desire the salvation of all men?
. Is it true that God "openeth His hand and satisfieth the desire of every living thing?" -- (Ps. 145:16)
. Do you fervently pray for the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:1)
. Do you pray in faith, nothing doubting? (James 1:6)
. Are you aware, "that whatsoever is not of faith is sin?" -- (Rom 14:23)
. Would God require us to pray for all men, and to pray in faith, unless He intends all men should be saved?
. If you believe endless misery to be the truth of God, why should you desire and pray that it may prove false?

We hope that this information has raised enough questions for you to pursue further study on this subject. For more information on the history of the doctrine of Hell, the Lake of Fire , Studies on Biblical words that are often translated as eternal, everlasting, etc. and many other teachings pertaining to this subject, please visit: [link to tentmaker.org]

Some of these questions were taken from a much larger list compiled in an article entitled Is Salvation a Deliverance From Hell or Eternal Death? " by Gary Amirault .

The painting on the front of this booklet is a scene from "The Damned" by Michelangelo. His paintings of Hell and the damned, like much Christian art of the time, was influenced more by Greek mythology of the underworld, than by the Bible.

Who are we? Tentmaker Ministries and Publications is a Christian ministry committed to sharing as best to our ability our understanding of God's plan for the ages to reconcile all things to Himself through Jesus Christ. (This view is also known as Ultimate reconciliation or Christian universalism, which is a very different thing than Unitarian Universalism). We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, the only way to the Father, the only begotten Son of God, and that there is no other way to everlasting, "aionian" life but through Him. We believe He is king of the universe, and owner of all Creation, and that His purpose is to bring all things under His government and reconciled with Himself.

".And for this we labor and strive, that we have put our hope in the living God, Who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe" (1 Timothy 4:10 ).

Universalists have more of a heart than the average Christian who actually WANTS people to burn in a lake of fire. But you are still left with a horrible book with a horrible God who kills infants and children. Have you read the BIBLE. You can't just pull out all the good stuff and burn the bad stuff. You have to accept the full ball of wax.

God is really just a horrible egomaniacal bastard, but he is not real which is pretty damned wonderful. You think he would save everyone? Think again. God hates pretty much everything he created. He kills men, women, children, infants and animals. He tells a rapist to pay the father of the victim some money and marry her. He had a man killed for picking up some sticks on Saturday. He killed thousands of people because David did a census and on and on and on.

If you think that kind of a god would actually LOVE people, you are sadly mistaken. God is NOT good, he is NOT good. You have to, sadly, accept this. Give up the fight. Find another book with a good God. Stop making excuses for this horror of a creature.

Thread: Time is Short (Page 2)

God himself told you? Lisa this is crazy talk.

chipg thinks god speaks to him too and we all know how that has turned out (over and over and over again)
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

No, just the truth. You're very angry by the way.

Lunchtime.....be back later....maybe.

Yep, He also told me that I'd be taken up at the end which means it happens in my lifetime.

You don't have to believe me if you don't want to.

Hot dogs cooking.....have to go!

H

Your so-called "truth" is nothing but a LIE. You have been brain-washed by traditional "churchiantity" to believe a lie.

Lisa Lisa

I believe that you are full of love and try to share it. However, please note, we are clearly told it is God who calls us into faith, it is NOT of ourselves.

Jesus in Romans tells us the two most important commandments to live are to love God above all others and to love our neighbor as (equal to how we love) ourselves.

We have been called into His service to spread the gospel (the good news) nothing more.

So, if we Christians would practice what He has told us as above we would be getting the attention of more people who might ask God to include them.

Instead we set up barriers by not following or adhering to what He has asked of us which is loving in nature and not subject to negative reaction so much.

Just a thought.

Sorry Lisa I will take the liberty to let this person know why it is the latter days.

Israel children were dispersed many generations ago as written in the Word. And a prophecy was given that when Israel became a nation again that the Jews would become a nation again. Judea.
The tribe of Judah or Jews is separate from the tribes of Israel.
God let a person in the old testie kick them out of Mt.Zion in Jerusalem.
As a matter of fact many crossed the Caucuses Mountians and migrated to the America's.
Chance's are you are from one of the tribes of Israel and don't know it.

So since the Jews became a nation again in 1948 that was the bench mark for the latter days.
God spoke of this in the bible.

There is much more I could give, but it is not up to me to bring anyone into the truth as to what is going on.
But you made a statement that the NWO will not happen. It is right before you eyes, and our leaders of the US are pushing us all into the NWO. And it will happen but will not last and be together for a very short time. The political system is the NWO and it takes a deadly wound. And then Satan shows up.
I am sure by the lack of knowledge of this, you and your family will bow towards Satan thinking he is God when he shows up.
The grand deception is so grand that many many Christians will bow towards Satan also.
Yet they will blast me now because I said that.

But you stay where you are in your mind, it is not up to me to judge you nor blast you. For God is the judge only and if any Christian blast you or judges you quote Psalms 50:6 because they would be taking the position of God by doing so.
So you have a nice life and love your family while you can.
Satan controls four beast systems.
The political beast system (NWO)
The educational beast system
The economical beast system
And the worst beast RELIGION
And to be a true Christian is not a religion, but a reality.
You are very old, ancient in your spiritual body within your body right now.
You are millions and millions of years old spiritually.
Satan tried to take the thrown of God millions of years after God created all of us.
ANd he took 1/3 of the angels. So what were you before you were born of this flesh?
The 1/3 that followed Satan in the first earth age will follow him again and are being born today. There are only a few who see the depth of Gods plan and I add that even Christians are being dumbed down to bow towards Satan and they don't know it.

God has whipped the time of you being with Him from your mind of the first earth age when you where with him and all the rest of us that have lived, are living and shall live.
He wants to test you to see if you will love Him or stay with the evil one.
1/3 followed Satan, 1/3 did not give a hoot, and 1/3 did stay with God.
Zec. 13:8 and 9 is judgement day. Look how they are separated by thirds.
The same that followed Satan will do it again. The 1/3 that did not give a hoot, will be that way again.
But Gods elect who were chosen before the foundation of this earth age will have many of them here to help others to know what was, what is, and what shall be.

So, I guess we see that you are one of what 3 part thirds and it is not up to me to judge you.
Maybe God will awaken you . That is between you and the creator. And even tho I spent time to share some things to you that you wanted Lisa to answer, the chances of you being awaken, is slim.
So live while you can.
God does not want evil forever. He wants us to love one and another and to remove those that don't give a hoot and wants to be evil .
There is small portion of the question you asked Lisa.

Last Edited by Little Star on 01/16/2013 11:56 AM

i dont see how any sane person could believe you.

i know this will come across as rude but it is not my intent.

i know that you honestly believe that which makes me hope that no one is under your care.

this is scary stuff. please think about what you are saying.

Maybe you shouldn't come back. Go watch the Wizard of Oz. You have no brain, no heart and no courage. Maybe you need the Wizard of Oz/God. Then when you find him, you will find that he is useless. Thanks for being a coward and not responding to any of my posts, but then I knew you wouldn't. You are such a typical Christian. Run away and hide instead of facing up to the fact that what you believe makes zero sense.

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