Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 1,317 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 278,202
Pageviews Today: 366,810Threads Today: 120Posts Today: 1,440
03:08 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Is gravity faster than light?

 
tokenday

User ID: 6851567
United States
02/09/2013 04:24 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
New International Version (©1984)
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24625287
United States
02/09/2013 04:24 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


[link to www.metaresearch.org]

Yet, anyone with a computer and orbit computation or numerical integration software can verify the consequences of introducing a delay into gravitational interactions. The effect on computed orbits is usually disastrous because conservation of angular momentum is destroyed. Expressed less technically by Sir Arthur Eddington, this means: “If the Sun attracts Jupiter towards its present position S, and Jupiter attracts the Sun towards its present position J, the two forces are in the same line and balance. But if the Sun attracts Jupiter toward its previous position S’, and Jupiter attracts the Sun towards its previous position J’, when the force of attraction started out to cross the gulf, then the two forces give a couple. This couple will tend to increase the angular momentum of the system, and, acting cumulatively, will soon cause an appreciable change of period, disagreeing with observations if the speed is at all comparable with that of light.” (Eddington, 1920, p. 94) See Figure 1.
 Quoting: Kirk


Very good in regard to explaining why it can't be light speed. I do however disagree that this points out some problem for the geometric explanation....I don't think it does. I think it is something about the geometry that we don't understand that gives the appearance of it not being instantaneous/some multiple of light speed....sort of like the alleged faster than light early expansion.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24410859
United States
02/09/2013 04:25 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Ok, here goes. light is a particle and my theory is gravity is just the attraction between two substances. Something in everything that we see on earth is attracted to something on the earth. If it wasn't it would have thrown off by centrifugal force. even the atmosphere has particulars that fix themselves in a spot of the atmosphere that equals their attraction as compared to the centrifugal force that is exerted by the spinning of the earth. Look at the holes in the ozone. I don't believe they are really holes so to speak. I believe that there is just less centrifugal force so the elements get pulled down to the surface, slowly drift into an area of great centrifugal force and then eventually work their way up again.

Take the moon for example. Think of the force of centrifugal force it must be exerting. Yet it also has a very strong magnetic pull to the earth and it found the position necessary to maintain its place relative to us.

This also the case of binary stars. It would stand to reason in my mind that all stars have to be binary to maintain some semblance of order to support life on planets around it.

When I say magnetism, I am not talking about just attraction to metal. There is more to it than that. Therefore, the speed of light is just one a measurement of one particle that we can see. Perhaps when light is created it becomes repellent or like trying to put to ends of the same magnet together, therefore travels away from where it was created.

Maybe black holes are just the attractant for light particulars. Perhaps we are not seeing actual galaxies being swallowed by black holes, just the light from thos galaxies as it get s near it. Maybe each galaxy has a black hole to recycle light into something we are unaware of that is essential to the health of the galaxy.

I guess what I am saying is gravity, in my humble opinion cannot be measured by velocity, but by elemental attraction.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29666542


Interesting thoughts. I feel like there is also something else, though (if possible), because in visually trying to wrap my mind around it, I get to a point where elemental attraction makes sense to me, to a point. But, in my thoughts that attraction must involve a 3rd player of some kind, I can't think of it as being exclusive.
aliensbro

User ID: 33945667
United States
02/09/2013 04:25 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
I said nothing about it's being a force, its origin, or its dissipation.

Have you done the homework I gave you?
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


I'm quite aware of what theoretical science is.
 Quoting: aliensbro


That wasn't your homework. Your homework was to look up "gravity wave".

Obviously you didn't perform the assignment.

F.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


There is no such thing. Gravity does not propagate in a waveform, it is an electrostatic attraction as I explained concisely and succinctly earlier, an attraction between neutrons and charged particles in mass due to the difference in potential between them. This btw is the best and simplest explanation and it cannot be debunked, so remember Occams razor before you spout off some jew shit
 Quoting: Anonymous astrophysicist 1378343


It's a theroetical wave.. As all information regarding gravity is. I believe it to be an effect of electromagnetism. Still just a belief.
tokenday

User ID: 6851567
United States
02/09/2013 04:26 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
aiah 38:8 I will make the shadow cast by the sun go back the ten steps it has gone down on the stairway of Ahaz.'" So the sunlight went back the ten steps it had gone down.
aliensbro

User ID: 33945667
United States
02/09/2013 04:27 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
People just think they are so smart because of the existence of textbooks.
 Quoting: aliensbro


Uneducated dolts who can't read think books are irrelevant.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Books are absolutely and 100% completely irrelevant when it comes to fact. The book doesn't propogate fact, the writer of the book does. Fucking idiot man, wow.
 Quoting: aliensbro


"Propagate", not "propogate".

You'd learn that from a spelling book, typically called a "dictionary", but I know you're allergic to books.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


It's clear you've no point to prove or even attempt to assert. By your own defintion of a gravity wave you just validated my claim that it's a theoretical science. At this point your just grasping at whatever ledge you can to stop from falling, so proceed with insults and irrelevant sentences to change the subject.
Anonymous astrophysicist
User ID: 1378343
United States
02/09/2013 04:27 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


[link to www.metaresearch.org]

Yet, anyone with a computer and orbit computation or numerical integration software can verify the consequences of introducing a delay into gravitational interactions. The effect on computed orbits is usually disastrous because conservation of angular momentum is destroyed. Expressed less technically by Sir Arthur Eddington, this means: “If the Sun attracts Jupiter towards its present position S, and Jupiter attracts the Sun towards its present position J, the two forces are in the same line and balance. But if the Sun attracts Jupiter toward its previous position S’, and Jupiter attracts the Sun towards its previous position J’, when the force of attraction started out to cross the gulf, then the two forces give a couple. This couple will tend to increase the angular momentum of the system, and, acting cumulatively, will soon cause an appreciable change of period, disagreeing with observations if the speed is at all comparable with that of light.” (Eddington, 1920, p. 94) See Figure 1.
 Quoting: Kirk


Very good in regard to explaining why it can't be light speed. I do however disagree that this points out some problem for the geometric explanation....I don't think it does. I think it is something about the geometry that we don't understand that gives the appearance of it not being instantaneous/some multiple of light speed....sort of like the alleged faster than light early expansion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24625287

This is but one of dozens of verified empirical observations that PROVES gravity propagates instantaneously
ACTG

User ID: 34016002
India
02/09/2013 04:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
People just think they are so smart because of the existence of textbooks.
 Quoting: aliensbro


Uneducated dolts who can't read think books are irrelevant.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Books are absolutely and 100% completely irrelevant when it comes to fact. The book doesn't propogate fact, the writer of the book does. Fucking idiot man, wow.
 Quoting: aliensbro


How do I learn "fact" ?
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
United States
02/09/2013 04:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
I said nothing about it's being a force, its origin, or its dissipation.

Have you done the homework I gave you?
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


I'm quite aware of what theoretical science is.
 Quoting: aliensbro


That wasn't your homework. Your homework was to look up "gravity wave".

Obviously you didn't perform the assignment.

F.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


There is no such thing. Gravity does not propagate in a waveform, it is an electrostatic attraction as I explained concisely and succinctly earlier, an attraction between neutrons and charged particles in mass due to the difference in potential between them. This btw is the best and simplest explanation and it cannot be debunked, so remember Occams razor before you spout off some jew shit
 Quoting: Anonymous astrophysicist 1378343

attraction has been measured between 2 masses that are equipotential. Wouldn't call it electrostatic.
Government is a body largely ungoverned.
tokenday

User ID: 6851567
United States
02/09/2013 04:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
dose any one here read my post?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33979614
United Kingdom
02/09/2013 04:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Science (relativity specifically) says that gravity moves at the speed of light.

This has not been experimentally "proved". But even if it had been it wouldn't stop you guys believing what you want to!
aliensbro

User ID: 33945667
United States
02/09/2013 04:29 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
...


I'm quite aware of what theoretical science is.
 Quoting: aliensbro


That wasn't your homework. Your homework was to look up "gravity wave".

Obviously you didn't perform the assignment.

F.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


So you want me to look up the theoretical parameters for a theoretical force to prove what point exactly? Here moron:

Gra - vity wave
1.A hypothetical wave carrying gravitational energy, postulated by Einstein to be emitted when a massive body is accelerated.

Thank you for proving my point. Dolt.
 Quoting: aliensbro


Dear retard, I already gave you the answer. Here, let me post it V E R Y S L O W L Y for you again:
[link to www.astro.cardiff.ac.uk]

This is simple enough for probably even you to understand, although I would not bet on it.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Those people are idiots to think that they can observe a pulsar emit a gravity wave. Dude you really need to pull your head out of your ass and go back to school, that dogmatic education may actually serve to advance your intellect.
Anonymous astrophysicist
User ID: 1378343
United States
02/09/2013 04:29 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
 Quoting: Professor Xavier



You balked at my request to define jew. Why?

I certainly don't blame you!
tokenday

User ID: 6851567
United States
02/09/2013 04:30 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, “O sun, stand still at Gibeon, And O moon in the valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14 There was no day like that before it or after it, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel.
15 Then Joshua and all Israel with him returned to the camp to Gilgal.
tokenday

User ID: 6851567
United States
02/09/2013 04:30 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, “O sun, stand still at Gibeon, And O moon in the valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14 There was no day like that before it or after it, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel.
15 Then Joshua and all Israel with him returned to the camp to Gilgal.
Anonymous astrophysicist
User ID: 1378343
United States
02/09/2013 04:31 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
There is no such thing. Gravity does not propagate in a waveform, it is an electrostatic attraction as I explained concisely and succinctly earlier, an attraction between neutrons and charged particles in mass due to the difference in potential between them. This btw is the best and simplest explanation and it cannot be debunked, so remember Occams razor before you spout off some jew shit
 Quoting: Anonymous astrophysicist 1378343


BTW, that's gibberish.
I think you must have a "Jew" hitting you in the back of the head.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Saying it is gibberish is not a valid response and in no way debunks it, it only proves you can't rise to the task and have nothing but falsely contrived ridicule as a response and it is worn out tactic
aliensbro

User ID: 33945667
United States
02/09/2013 04:31 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Electromagnetism
aliensbro

User ID: 33945667
United States
02/09/2013 04:32 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
There is no such thing. Gravity does not propagate in a waveform, it is an electrostatic attraction as I explained concisely and succinctly earlier, an attraction between neutrons and charged particles in mass due to the difference in potential between them. This btw is the best and simplest explanation and it cannot be debunked, so remember Occams razor before you spout off some jew shit
 Quoting: Anonymous astrophysicist 1378343


BTW, that's gibberish.
I think you must have a "Jew" hitting you in the back of the head.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Saying it is gibberish is not a valid response and in no way debunks it, it only proves you can't rise to the task and have nothing but falsely contrived ridicule as a response and it is worn out tactic
 Quoting: Anonymous astrophysicist 1378343


Yes it's painful talking to a man of his caliber. He can't be a true shill as this isn't really a taboo subject so he really must just be illiterate.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6344603
India
02/09/2013 04:33 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
can plants be altrusic ?
does pope shit in the woods ?

there aint no answer
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24625287
United States
02/09/2013 04:34 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


[link to www.metaresearch.org]

Yet, anyone with a computer and orbit computation or numerical integration software can verify the consequences of introducing a delay into gravitational interactions. The effect on computed orbits is usually disastrous because conservation of angular momentum is destroyed. Expressed less technically by Sir Arthur Eddington, this means: “If the Sun attracts Jupiter towards its present position S, and Jupiter attracts the Sun towards its present position J, the two forces are in the same line and balance. But if the Sun attracts Jupiter toward its previous position S’, and Jupiter attracts the Sun towards its previous position J’, when the force of attraction started out to cross the gulf, then the two forces give a couple. This couple will tend to increase the angular momentum of the system, and, acting cumulatively, will soon cause an appreciable change of period, disagreeing with observations if the speed is at all comparable with that of light.” (Eddington, 1920, p. 94) See Figure 1.
 Quoting: Kirk


Very good in regard to explaining why it can't be light speed. I do however disagree that this points out some problem for the geometric explanation....I don't think it does. I think it is something about the geometry that we don't understand that gives the appearance of it not being instantaneous/some multiple of light speed....sort of like the alleged faster than light early expansion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24625287

This is but one of dozens of verified empirical observations that PROVES gravity propagates instantaneously
 Quoting: Anonymous astrophysicist 1378343


Yeah, I don't disagree with that. But the article at the link seems to posit/conclude a faster-than-light speed for the effects of gravity rather than instantaneous.

I don't argue with their data, just think that the seeming delay is an illusion created by the geometry of spacetime. (abstractly sort of like light bending/slowing down in water) Just a hunch.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24625287
United States
02/09/2013 04:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Electromagnetism
 Quoting: aliensbro


VACUUM....vaaaaacccccuuuuuum.

(chicken pot, chicken pot, chicken pot pie)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33743976
United Kingdom
02/09/2013 04:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
..... I wonder . . if it is possible to get a 'sling shot' from a black hole ...? If it is not possible . . .
Kirk

User ID: 25384388
United States
02/09/2013 04:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Jump off a building with a laser in your hand and see what hits the ground first.
 Quoting: Open Your Eyes


He isn't talking acceleration due to gravity.

He means the time it takes for gravitational forces from one object to start affecting another.

Eg, Would planets stop orbiting a star instantaneously if the star were to suddenly vanish?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5140030


Of course. The rotating of the planet's vector requires constant force. No force? Planet takes off in a straight line.
Government is a body largely ungoverned.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33977942
Spain
02/09/2013 04:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
yes gravity is faster than light.

position TX and RX parts of following experiment 100m apart.

hit an aircore cadaceus coil with an impulse. all types work. i used 1inch radius 12inch length 6crossover nodes. with 32 wraps.

use a shielded plate capicatitor feeding a higain opamp to detect the graviton waves generated.

use aircoil feeding higain opamp to detect RF wave generated.

observe both incoming signals on 2 channel oscilloscope.

you will see gravitons coming in before rf which travels at light speed.

googlesearch "hodowanec scalar" for further reading.
aliensbro

User ID: 33945667
United States
02/09/2013 04:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Electromagnetism
 Quoting: aliensbro


VACUUM....vaaaaacccccuuuuuum.

(chicken pot, chicken pot, chicken pot pie)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24625287


Electromagnetism isn't affected by the effects of a vacuum. And magnetic field lines stretch through the entirity of space, all one needs is an amplifier.

Last Edited by aliensbro on 02/09/2013 04:37 PM
Anonymous astrophysicist
User ID: 1378343
United States
02/09/2013 04:37 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
attraction has been measured between 2 masses that are equipotential. Wouldn't call it electrostatic.


No, it hasn't You don't understand that there is no such word as equipotential and there is a good reason for that. Equal potential is the correct way of saying it, and though objects with equal electrical potential DO exhibit gravitational attraction, this in no way detracts from my explanation. THE INDIVIDUAL charges particles involved attract the neutrons



It's not, he's full of shit.

Gravitation is easily observable on zero-mass particles as well.
 Quoting: Kirk


HORSE SHIT reference your comment.

And don't give me no "photonic" jewshit
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33977942
Spain
02/09/2013 04:37 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
i forgot to mention, impulse needs to be as fast as possible, cheapest way to accomplish is with sparkgap breakdown.

but with this experiment i have SEEN gravity traveling faster than light.
aliensbro

User ID: 33945667
United States
02/09/2013 04:38 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
..... I wonder . . if it is possible to get a 'sling shot' from a black hole ...? If it is not possible . . .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33743976


Yes it is possible if you go around it at an incredibly high velocity and distance from the hole itself. That said, wouldn't try it.
Anonymous astrophysicist
User ID: 1378343
United States
02/09/2013 04:38 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
yes gravity is faster than light.

position TX and RX parts of following experiment 100m apart.

hit an aircore cadaceus coil with an impulse. all types work. i used 1inch radius 12inch length 6crossover nodes. with 32 wraps.

use a shielded plate capicatitor feeding a higain opamp to detect the graviton waves generated.

use aircoil feeding higain opamp to detect RF wave generated.

observe both incoming signals on 2 channel oscilloscope.

you will see gravitons coming in before rf which travels at light speed.

googlesearch "hodowanec scalar" for further reading.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33977942


Thank you
aliensbro

User ID: 33945667
United States
02/09/2013 04:39 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Is gravity faster than light?
attraction has been measured between 2 masses that are equipotential. Wouldn't call it electrostatic.
 Quoting: Anonymous astrophysicist 1378343


No, it hasn't You don't understand that there is no such word as equipotential and there is a good reason for that. Equal potential is the correct way of saying it, and though objects with equal electrical potential DO exhibit gravitational attraction, this in no way detracts from my explanation. THE INDIVIDUAL charges particles involved attract the neutrons


It's not, he's full of shit.

Gravitation is easily observable on zero-mass particles as well.
 Quoting: Kirk


HORSE SHIT reference your comment.

And don't give me no "photonic" jewshit
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Where is this fool observing zero mass particles anyway.. Role play.





GLP