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What became of that btw ? I didn't follow that thread. Last time I checked he posted photos of a telescope in front of a white fence in a garden with a sign "Volars Telescope" or something like that pinned at the fence.

Prepare for Clare to counter with 'But what is fake? Can we know that fake is not truth? Is not beauty truth, and fake things are sometimes beautiful, so can not be fake things just as true as true things, when fake, if and or but? It's the age of aquarius, the age of aquarius, ooooh...'

Volar vanished when asked a few times when he planned to take his scope outdoors.

And I mean vanished, too. Poof.

Just like Elle and various other Nancy sockpuppets.

No, that is called an 'orbit' or 'revolution'.



Huh? No, those two objects, you and the doll, are rotating at exactly the same speed.



Huh? Why don't you stop pretending to know more than you really know about this? Your statement doesn't even make sense.



No, the point Nancy was making is that ignorant Humans don't know as much as 300IQ "Zetas". To that end, she contrived this silliness about the Moon NOT ROTATING. It was pointed out to her that the Moon rotates once for each revolution around Earth, but she denied that was true and got nasty about it.

Anyway,
Good night.


You are wrong, Clare. This is exactly why I didn't let it drop. The Moon *IS* rotating ON ITS OWN AXIS. Why do you think it is not? What axis do you imagine it *IS* rotating on??

I already offered this thought exercise for you to ponder, but you 'overlooked' it. Let's try again:

What motions would the Moon display if Earth suddenly went missing? Would the Moon THEN be rotating ON ITS OWN AXIS? Why, or why not?

Sorry for butting in here, Dr P.



YES, IT DOES!



Huh? How can Earth be orbiting, yet still be on a 'spot'?



You can repeat your 'point' as many times as you want. Perhaps you will flap your arms as you say it... but you are still WRONG!

He made a vague statement about how it wouldn't serve the best purposes for him to offer images of the Sun. One suggestion with the "Volar" person. Think in terms of... Role-playing.

It is interesting to note that Nancy has pictures of Planet X/second sun on her site captured by camera phones and web cams, yet amateur astronomers observing the sun with proper equipment taking clear photos of the sun capture no such object. The “why” of this is not hard at all to figure out.

Indeed. And the sun telescope for $499 I linked is not much more expensive as a digital camera. If I was really convinced that Planet X might be existing and that I could detect it with such a telescope I certainly would buy one. I bet these $499 were easily paid of by the selling of her book and video and/or the non-profit funting she received back in the days.
But your right of course ... Nancy and her true believers have no interest whatsoever to really research what is there and what not. They are just addicted to get some more doom&gloom shoved down their throats by Nancy.

Looks like Clare STILL has not addressed the historical CW information from yesterday.

Curious.

Here is mine in use recently at an observing session at my observatory.

[link to www.machunter.org]

About midway down the pictures.

Sigh.

If the Moon were stationary in the sky, but the Sun continued to rise and set on the Earth, would one claim that the Earth was not rotating?

Nice shade - I remember glare could be a bit of an issue when using the PST, but that looks like it'd solve the problem quite well. Did you make that yourself or do they sell that somewhere?

Bought the scope from Astromart and it came with it.

What's interesting is that if the moon rotated in 28 days or 30 days, there would be no question that it rotated on it's own axis since we would, over time, see its entire surface. But since it's synchronous with it's orbital period around the earth at 29 days, people can't seem to grasp that it's turning on its own.

It has been clear all along that I don't follow Nancy verbatim.

Besides that, if a point raised *has nothing to do with a question*, it does show an error in the speaker, but not their point.

It also (in this case) shows either that DrPostman on this issue either doesn't understand the difference physically (and in scientific theory) between a body which rotates on its own axis AND a picayune misunderstanding of a speaker (Nancy), OR it just shows he is being picayune, period and misunderstood "spin on its own axis" to mean "has any rotation, which puts the body into different positions relative to its axis".

In the former it's a lack of understanding and an unwillingness (or inability) to be careful to understand Nancy herself in her intent,
... and in the latter it indicates that he misunderstood what the point of the statement was.

Either way, I should not have called him an idiot, in being impolite to him. However, the general tone here is so nasty, when I saw that, I had a moment of sinking to the level of some of the people here.

Note: not all are like that.
And no-one HAS to be like that.

So anyway, sorry to Dr Postman for not merely saying he's being idiotic, but calling him an idiot in that moment.

:)

Clare

No, it's still NOT ON ITS OWN AXIS.

Are you people so confused by the diagram which shows the overall ORIENTATION of the Moon as it sins in an orbit around the Earth?

It does actually have an orbit; it moves in progression. But STATIC in its own axis regarding spin.

Do you not see in the image the Moon face is always consistent?

This would be as if the Earth always faced the Sun with North America ... but over the whole orbit, yes, the Moon faces different directions relative to the Sun. This is relative to the a map of space where one direction was listed "N" (not true north as you can see in the little diagram, for north is irrelevant when we are looking down -- that would be the North pole straight down, but the "N" in the diagram is at the top of the diagram, to indicate an orientation FOR THE DIAGRAM).

Do you not understand that Nancy made the mistake that it didn't have its own forward motion relative to the Earth (a true, slow orbit ofo the Earth), versus the issue of spin on its OWN axis?

Imagine a ping-pong ball on a string: it does not spin on its axis as you swing your body around in order to spin together. This is not the Moon, but it is the issue of axis of the Moon. Now imagine you could pass it between your arms and achieve its own forward spin relative to you spinning. That is what the Moon does: a forward-motion orbit, not fixed relative to a Point in the Earth, but STILL NO SPIN.

We NEVER see the "Dark Side of the Moon" -- which is sometimes LIT (during what WE class the the "Dark Moon" of the month). The "Dark Side of the Moon" is "dark" to our direct VIEW (knowledge, except in modern probes). Kind of like the "Dark Ages". It means those ages left few records, are hard to know.

So, it FACES us, with a slight perceptual shift called Lunar Libration, which is due to the fact it actually creates a cris-cross orbit over time, like the imaginal pin-pong ball if we lowered it slightly and raised it as it spun around us as we spin too, at a much faster rate than it.

BUT STILL NO SPIN ON ITS AXIS.

The orientation overall of the Moon, relative to the Sun does change, for the Moon. And THIS is what the chart is showing, which you somehow have interpreted as the Moon's OWN spin.

YIKES!

How are we going to get to the issues around electromagnetism and PX and NASA and discovery if we can't get this part straight? I know we are ALL learning here, but really, this is not a "factoid" fact which someone could know or not have heard of. This is a clear item about the Moon which EVERYONE knows. Does it show multiple faces? NO. It shows a slight different viewpoint in Libration, but it does not SPIN/rotate (its own axis), it ORBITS/rotates on an axis centred in the Earth. Yes, it is at a different rate than the Earth so it truly is an ORBIT, not just a fixed orbital position. But it doesn't SPIN itself.

It's turning in the sense of "spinning or rotating" on an autonomous orbit around the Earth. It is not SPINNING on ITS OWN axis.

See below, on this page ...

And hello again!

By the way, sorry I referred to you as German in my replies to you. I confused you with a German person who's on here -- SOMEHOW.

:)

Hi 74444 -- I meant, see ABOVE on this page, for my comments on the Moon.

You're wrong.

The Moon falls toward the SUN. Always.

In fact, our Moon isn't a Moon at all, for it is too massive. We are, more accurately, a double planet system, and the Moon and Earth both fall toward the Sun. The Moon does NOT orbit the Earth's center of mass.

If the Earth vanished this instant, and was never seen again, the Moon would continue to spin on its own axis every 28 or so days, as it continued to orbit the Sun.

For crying out loud.

Maybe the Moon isn't moving at all. Maybe there really isn't a Moon at all.

Maybe it's a holographic projection from Project Bluebeam.

Maybe it's really an alien space station.

Maybe it's being towed by the same aliens who are towing the ignited Jupiter around the Solar System.

Maybe there's a giant UFO disguised as the moon 2,000 feet above Houston, Texas.

Maybe the Earth is flat and the Moon is only 5,000 miles away.

Maybe there's a giant pink rabbit from Nibiru floating over Times Square.

Yes it is. If you were looking down from above the Moon's North Pole, you would see that it is spinning once every 29 days.

Yes, it most absolutely is. If you stood at the north pole of the moon and looked directly overhead at the sky, what would it appear to do over a 29 day span?

Also, would you say the moon was not rotating on its axis if it's rotation period was 10 days and we saw both "sides" of it every couple of weeks? Or if it were rotating every 40 days and again we saw all sides of it? Why is it that you think it doesn't rotate just becuase its period of rotation is 29 days?

And, you have the reason for libration wrong as well. The moon's orbit around the earth is an ellipse, not a circle. Since it travels at a roughly constant speed in its orbit, we get to peek around the sides a bit over its cycle since for parts of that ellipse, it's orbital speed is NOT completely synchronous and the moon SPINNING ON ITS OWN AXIS is a bit too fast or too slow and shows us a bit more of one side and then the other. If its orbit were perfectly circular, there would be no libration.

Also, your idea that the earth spins "on a spot" is not correct either. It rotates around the barycenter of the earth/moon system, which is NOT at the earth's center but off to one side towards where the moon is. So, if you were to look at teh earth's orbit around the sun from "overhead", it would appear to trace a sine wave along it's circular path. The sun exhibits this same action because of the mass of Jupiter. That's how we detect planets orbiting around distant stars...by tracing the proper motion of the star and doing a fourier transform on its motion to calculate how many and what mass planets are orbiting it.

You REALLY need to bone up on your Astronomy 101.

Clare, why are you avoiding addressing the historic Chandler Wobble data?

Your true colors are really shining through now.

"Radical Doubt" for centuries of confirmed scientific observation of the universe but ZetaCult bullshit dogma is "a clear item about the Moon which EVERYONE knows."

The Moon doesn't rotate on its own axis, Clare?

LOL. How about helping 'us' learn even more amazing facts about the Universe?

Please tell us that Mars is a gas giant, or that Saturn's rings are composed of crepe paper, or that Venus is a hollow cube. Any of those 'facts' will fit perfectly with your 'Moon doesn't rotate about its own axis' statement.

Please stop expounding on matters with which you are completely ignorant.

Nothing truly orbits the center of mass of anything else, everything has a barycenter, so by that definition there's no such thing as a moon. The barycenter of the earth-moon system is below the earth's surface, so by any reasonable definition it is our moon.

No matter how much you shout you're still wrong. The moon's orientation with respect to earth is irrelevant. The moon rotates on its axis once per orbit around its parent body earth. That means it rotates on its axis. The only frame of reference that matters when determining the presence or absence of rotation of a body in space is rotation with respect to the stars. The moon most certainly rotates about its axis with respect to the stars. How you can fail to understand this without being a total zetatard is beyond me.

Last Edited by Astromut on 05/19/2010 04:18 PM

Since you seem to have skipped over my posts about this and the suggested thought exercise AGAIN. I'll answer here.

Yes, The Moon spins on its own axis, no matter how many times you bray that it doesn't.




What diagram? No, I haven't been confused by some diagram.



"It"? To which "it" do you now refer?



Sorry? Which image? I can't read your mind. I can hardly follow your typing.



wtf did all that mean? Which diagram?



Huh? You are spinning gobbldygook.



You are describing, effectively, ONE object. The entirity of the object is, indeed, spinning.



Such machinations... The Moon is not part of the Earth. It is a separate body. What motions would the Moon display if Earth suddenly went missing?

Why won't you answer that question?



What was the point of that tangent?



No, as I said before... if you want to consider you and the pingpong ball as two separate objects(they really are not, for the purposes of this), then they are rotating at EXACTLY THE SAME RATE.



Of course it does. One more time... What motions would the Moon display if Earth suddenly went missing?

Oh, and by the way... in a weightless, vacuum environment, the ping pong ball would ALSO retain a rotation, if released from the string!