THE TRUE DEBATE OF OUR TIME : INDIVIDUALISM vs COLLECTIVISM | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 260371 United States 01/02/2008 09:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 338377 United States 01/02/2008 10:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 182970 United States 01/02/2008 10:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 142537 United States 01/02/2008 11:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The whole 'Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death' Individualism stchik is the drive to continue doing what you always been doing, and that is, your rape and plunder of your neighbors for your profit. The collective thinking that will eliminate you swine, is the necessary thinking that a future generation will need to survive, and that includes the whole race. So, we will indeed give you death, death of your selfish self, your selfish philosophy and your selfish plunder. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 260371 United States 01/02/2008 11:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The whole 'Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death' Individualism stchik is the drive to continue doing what you always been doing, and that is, your rape and plunder of your neighbors for your profit. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 142537The collective thinking that will eliminate you swine, is the necessary thinking that a future generation will need to survive, and that includes the whole race. So, we will indeed give you death, death of your selfish self, your selfish philosophy and your selfish plunder. fuck off you socialist pig. |
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Sky441 User ID: 318977 United States 01/02/2008 11:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Sky441 User ID: 318977 United States 01/02/2008 11:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Thanatos User ID: 324533 United States 01/02/2008 11:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, we're stuck muddling along a centrist course. Rarrgh! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 223 United States 01/02/2008 11:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 223 United States 01/02/2008 11:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | From the very beginning, notice those fellas at Nicea decided it best to skip this part when putting together the Bible. 1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. 2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. 3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down; 4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice. (Moses 4:1-4) (Satan wanted to redeem all mankind, by forcing them to do good and taking the glory for himself. Jesus' plan was to give mankind free agency and to be their redeemer, and give the glory to God the Father. Satan's plan was rejected, he rebelled, and he was cast out of heaven.) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 322321 Mexico 01/02/2008 11:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 344654 Australia 01/02/2008 11:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | (Satan wanted to redeem all mankind, by forcing them to do good and taking the glory for himself. Jesus' plan was to give mankind free agency and to be their redeemer, and give the glory to God the Father. Satan's plan was rejected, he rebelled, and he was cast out of heaven.) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 223So it's a bloody soap opera up there too is it? He sure made us in his image alright... Damn looks like we got the wrong God. |
anonanon User ID: 272356 United States 01/02/2008 12:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Beyond that, tho, I think anything that falls into the personal category like health insurance, education, and life choices are much better done individually. We can support the common good with such things as the free lunch program for poverty level children and medicare for the elderly and medicaid for the poor without sacrificing the individuality of everyone. I too see Hiliary Clinton as a socialist/collectivist who would impose her choices on the rest of us along with a huge tax bill with all the benefits she wants to provide and she keeps say they will be free. They are not free if the money for them comes out of the wallets of everyone who has a job. Unfortunately, this far left perspective seems all too prevalent amongs the Democrats and they get outraged at anyone who questions the wisdom of it or even their motives. Our problem is not that we have a conflict between the common good and the individual good. Our problem is that our federal government has taken it upon itself to create a massive government with departments and agencies that duplicate each other and in many cases, are in charge of doing something that does not need doing at the federal level. There is also the problem of agencies that no one seems to know just what they do and have no measureable benefits for the rest of us. They just refuse to simplify and cut out these expensive agencies just as the DC crowd refuses to give up their expensive earmarks for local projects - usually given to their pals and relatives - that benefit few people. And even tho the Democrats promised they would eliminate these things, even Hiliary Clinton go in on the act with her budget item of a Woodstock Museum - as if anyone needs that. If that local economy wants that Museum, perhaps they should start raising the money for it from all the rich and famous rock musicians in the country. Just as in all the other pork barrel projects, there is no need for the rest of us to pay for such things. It would have been different if what she asked for was money to repair some of the NY bridges but not for something that stupid. And all of them, both Republicans and Democrats did it and we ended up with a budge of over 3000 pages. So what we really need to do is have a national discussion and even a referendum on just what is in the common good and what the federal government should be about. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 338377 United States 01/02/2008 12:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 326428 United States 01/02/2008 12:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My theory is that the US military complex is the primary collectivist institution in the USA, and ironically, it's run by private concerns. There's a huge national security, intelligence, and mind-control infrastructure run by a conglomeration of private businessman who regard the national treasury,the foreign and domestic policy as their domain, utilizing it for self enrichment. |
~Ajax~ User ID: 346914 United States 01/02/2008 12:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Jomama User ID: 348856 United States 01/02/2008 01:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're right. It is the true debate of our time. I used to think I was alone thinking that. Now there are more seeing thru the fog. Collectivism is the world's cesspool of the mediocre and The Borg Mentality. To advance civilization requires that each one of us need to be free to follow our own dreams. The Other Way leads to a Dark Age. Looks we're right on the edge. Collectivism leads to death: [link to www.hawaii.edu] to herd or not to herd [link to djomama.blogspot.com] |
Satiric Axiom User ID: 292560 United States 01/02/2008 01:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | To be an individualist is to be a collectivist. To be a collectivist is to be an individualist. To see in black and white is to be colorblind; don't buy into this polarity bullshit. Quoting: Sky441The War on the ground is very real. Semantics can be amusing yet misleading. "It isn't about what you & I think, it's about what is." |
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Ganid User ID: 204982 Canada 01/02/2008 02:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | To understand "collectivism", one has to understand its origin. One has to go back some 3500 or more years to the ancient land of Persia, where the people who lived near the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean Sea were predators/pirates preying upon the neighboring people. Their pirate ships were propelled by small sails, but mostly by slave oarsmen. A Persian king by the name of Hummarabi (around 1850 BC) was converted by "preachers" of Melchizedek' philosophy, the priest of Salem (Jerusalem) who converted Abraham a 100 years earlier from his Chaldean (Persian) elitist philosophy. Hummarabi edicted a code of laws, based upon his newly learned philosophy. And, apparently among these was the forbidding of slavery. So, the pirate faction, to maintain their livlihood, came up with a solution to maintain their slave crewmembers - they made them "body parts (members) of the ship. And, as a grouping as "crew", they were then forced to be a "team". Hearing any words that sound familiar? Around 1500 BC, a city state was built up at Babylon in Persia by Chaldean priests who had migrated from Egypt after the pole shift, (where they had ruled as elite/royalty for centuries (not the priests, of course, but the philosophic organization). That lasted for some 1,000 years, and then they were again forced to move, and they ended up in the 7 hills of the Etruskan lands amd established Rome (around 300 BC). It was there that modern "collectivism" originated. The Red Robe Priests, headed by the chief priest, the Pontifex Maximus, the Emperor of Rome, made all human institutions into "make-believe ships at sea", and called them incorporations or corporate bodies. They used the philosophy of their ancient Persian ancestors in their making the ship the object, and the human (crew)members as subject slaves of the ship, or make-believe ship. As a "crew", the "team" was formed. The humans function as dispensable and replacable body parts of the tean, the ship. Thus, we have the basic philosophic origin of "collectivism". Remember, all crew or team members are equal, but some are more equal than others. |
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TexasT User ID: 59883 Singapore 01/02/2008 05:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I think this is a false debate. Sometimes collectivism is appropriate, as when citizens of a city vote to raise bond money to build a hospital. Sometimes individualism is appropriate, as when you plant a garden or improve your property. To present this in such a way is really over-simplifying the issue. That's the true debate, between those of us who don't see the world as "black and white" and those of us who do. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 349201 United States 01/02/2008 09:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I think this is a false debate. Quoting: TexasT 59883Sometimes collectivism is appropriate, as when citizens of a city vote to raise bond money to build a hospital. Sometimes individualism is appropriate, as when you plant a garden or improve your property. To present this in such a way is really over-simplifying the issue. That's the true debate, between those of us who don't see the world as "black and white" and those of us who do. I think you are a false American.... |