Debunker Talk LIVE Chat 24/7 - A debunker's paradise!!

ZetaMax is my punching bag!!

Melfy is, as the saying goes, the gift that never stops giving. He roleplays as a Zeta bunker
believer on these here threads but some of his actual views, on say the likes of ET aliens, may cause a stir when I get around to revealing them.

What I don't get is why people still fall for her story after she has based it on so many obvious failures...such as the earth stopped in orbit around the sun. Any child can see that this is simply not so. In fact, there are NO examples of any astronomical predictions or calims that she's ever gotten right, yet some still believe her. I guess that goes to the cleverness of picking a subject to base her story on that most people have very little education in.

Exactly. A co-orbital dark twin would present a solar elongation of about 2° twice a year just due to eccentricity. This is neglecting the not-trivial perturbations from Venus, Mars, and Jupiter. With those in the mix, the elongation would rapidly increase.





Yes, this is the only way around the eccentricity problem. The problem with this scenario is the same. The perturbing effects of Venus, Mars, and Jupiter would be even more pronounced and the symmetry would rapidly degenerate. It also doesn't help the 'collision of DOOM' that in a symmetrical orbit the "dark twin" would only cross Earth's orbit at two points (nodes).

Both of these scenarios would produce an orbit that would rapidly allow viewing during an eclipse or with a coronagraph. If memory serves, the 'dark twin' was lightly considered in the 18th century and quickly dispatched through observation during solar eclipses.





This is similar to the 1st scenario with a co-orbital dark twin at the L3 point. The problem with this is that the L3 point is quite unstable and, again, those nasty perturbations from Venus, Mars, Jupiter would rapidly knock it out of the L3 position where it would take on an horseshoe orbit. That would be very obvious since it would follow an orbit that would take it past the L4 point, back to L3, on to L5 and then back to L3... and on and on.
See: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

In fact, the non-L3 co-orbital dark twin would also degrade to an horseshoe orbit. I believe the symmetrical orbit would also become horseshoe since the earth's e is very small, but don't quote me.

That is assuming physics applies but I see on another thread that a "new" (snicker) Nancy acolyte is arguing that it is in some other dimension, or some such, so conventional physics need not apply. PX is apparently a 'philosophical entity'.
It's the old - "PX is a magical planet" gambit... and who can argue with that idiocy?

Who'd want to? That type of fairy-tale thinking deserves nothing but ridicule and lulz.





Couldn't have said it better myself.

Have fun.


R.

Free Store...you just debunked Nancy. If all those other people were preaching end times longer than Nancy and they were wrong, what's the likelihood that Nancy will be right? Very little.

Max...I see Rick is no longer a category 5 storm.

CB, according to the Zetas, we are constantly being barraged by huge megastorms that devastate the Gulf every few months!

Now, what are you going to believe - -the Zetas and Zetatalk, or NOAA, the Weather Channel, and the evidence of your own eyes?

Zetas right* again!









* When used in reference to Nancy Lieder or ZetaTalk, right is understood to mean 'wrong.'

Free Store was hilarious in Nancy's sun thread. He kept insisting that he knows he's right about "Planet X"...even though it failed to show up in 2003...and 2007, at which point he was going to commit suicide if it didn't. It continues to be a no show and he hasn't even the slightest shred of evidence to suggest that it even exists. So, what it really comes down to is that he keeps saying he's right because he's beginning to have doubts and he's simply trying to convince himself.

Commit suicide? Over some silly imaginary planet?

That's sad, and I don't mean that in a cruel way. I hope Free Store can find something more constructive to center himself on.

Dude, if you're reading this, I hope you'll accept some friendly advice -- turn off the PC and go outside. Have some coffee. Maybe see a movie (NOT 2012!!!!). Hang out with some friends.

There are better things to do than play Doomsday on the net...

Nope, I kid you not. Others here will confirm that. In August 2007, he kept saying "Planet X" would be visible in September and if it wasn't he would commit suicide right here on GLP. Fortunately, he didn't...but when we kept asking him about it, he then claimed he filed a "police report" with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police so that if anything happened to him, they would know who did it. Obviously, that's a lie because 1) no police agency is going to take a "report" if no crime has been committed and 2) no one threatened to harm him...the only threat of harm to himself came from him. I asked him if he bothered to tell them the whole story...naturally, he wouldn't answer that and simply said that a report was made..,although he wouldn't say with which office or which officer.

By-the-Way, following is a good update on the LCROSS mission:

[link to www.danamackenzie.com]
Friday, October 9th, 2009
However, though “no plume” might be the big news story at the moment, it is very far from the end of the story. The scientific work of the mission is just beginning. The press conference was held two hours after impact. But the more relevant time frames are two days (the time that will be spent with the full science team at NASA-Ames collecting data), two weeks (when they will meet again and start drawing their initial conclusions), and two months (when they are likely to make a public announcement of the results). Tony Colaprete and Michael Wargo made the following very important points:

1.It is not clear yet that the plume wasn’t detected. Further image processing could reveal that it was there, but fainter than expected. “Gray on black,” as Wargo said.
2.Even if the plume wasn’t detected, the crater was detected, and it was about the expected size. Its thermal signal will give a lot of information about what was at the impact site.
3.Colaprete kept coming back over and over to the point that “spectra are where the science is at.” The spectrometers are more sensitive than the cameras, and they tell you what the chemicals are that you are looking at. For the most part the readout is not instant (although Colaprete did talk about a clear sodium line).
4.Finally, Wargo reminded the reporters that this was an experiment. An experiment, by definition, is something whose result you don’t know in advance. You might have a prediction or a theory, but until you do the experiment you just aren’t sure what is going to happen. So the plume was smaller or darker or less dramatic than expected. That will still tell us something.
So the press conference was an interesting clash of cultures. The media like pretty pictures, big explosions, and dramatic discoveries. They don’t like to wait. The scientists, as Jennifer Heldmann said, like “squiggly lines” (like the output of a spectrometer). They understand the value of patience and gathering all the evidence before you reach a conclusion.

If you want to know whether LCROSS saw water ice on the moon, your best bet is to stay tuned. The answer is likely to come out at the American Geophysical Union (AGU) meeting in December, in San Francisco. I’ll be there!

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

The impact was not as visually prominent as had been anticipated. However the infrared camera did capture a thermal signature of the booster's crater.[20] Project manager Dan Andrews believed that this was due to pre-crash simulations that exaggerated the plume's prominence (some simulations were not done by NASA). Another possibility was that lighting was not sufficient for adequate photography, and would result in the need for image processing to increase clarity. The depth of Cabeus could be too great. This may be confirmed from Laser Ranging data collected previously by Chandrayaan-1, and preceding data from KAGUYA.[9][21] Hubble Space Telescope co-investigator Alex Storrs said: "A preliminary analysis of the STIS spectra do not show any clear evidence for hydroxyl, but further analysis is needed."[22]

Last Edited by George B on 10/20/2009 11:57 AM

Why am I "wrong"?? The point is, a Cat 5 storm near Baha is EXTREMELY unusual. The fact the storm weakens doesn't change that FACT.

Max, you should be careful when using the word 'fact.' That's a very dangerous concept for an unprepared ZetaTalk devotee to bandy about. For a person of your mentality, a direction and sudden confrontation with 'fact' could be extremely dangerous.

^ For Andrew everything the government says is bullshit (no need to find a qoute here, we all know he repeatedly claimed exactly this) ... BUT, when it SEEMS to fit Nancys claims its the truth (same situation as with NASA).

[link to www.youtube.com]

You say there ain't no use in livin'
It's all a waste of time
'N you wanna throw your life away, well
People that's just fine
Go ahead on 'n get it over with then
Find you a bridge 'n take a jump
Just make sure you do it
right the first time
'Cause nothin's worse than a Suicide
Chump

You say there ain't no light a-shinin'
Through the bushes up ahead
[ Find more Lyrics on www.mp3lyrics.org/VJK ]
'N we're all gonna be so sorry
When we find out you are dead
Go head on and get it over with then
Find you a bridge 'n take a jump
Just make sure you do it right the first
time
'Cause nothin's worse than a Suicide
Chump

Now maybe you're scared of jumpin'
'N poison makes you sick
'N you want a little attention
'N you need it pretty quick
Don't wanna mess your face up
Or we won't know if it's you
Aw there's just so much to worry about
Now what you gonna do?

Go head on 'n get it over with then
...

You're on the bridge;
Scared to leap,
But a girl walks over
To take a peep...
She says: "DON'T DO IT!"
But wouldn't you know...
The girl got a head
Like a buffalo
With a little red hair
All over the top
An' her breath would make the
Traffic stop
She says "I LOVE YOU...
BUT FIRST, LET'S EAT!"
And all you can say as you run down the
street
is...

No, it isn't that unusual. The storms in the Pacific are as numerous as the ones in the gulf, they just rarely make land. They usually follow the coast and then go out to sea where they fizzle. There is usually one storm a year that touches land, and maybe once every 10 years a killer storm hits the coast, like Pauline in 1997 which hit Acapulco and caused a lot of death and damage.

Your first clue about how many storms have formed in the Pacific is the name Rick. That's R for Rick. Not B for Bob. You don't hear about these storms because they never affect the US.

In August, hurricane Jimena also threatened the Baja. As I said, most of these storms don't threaten land, but when they do, they are doozies, worse than an Atlantic storm.

_______________________________________
By October the Sea of Cortez has reached it's high temperature, acting as a magnet to the warm water hungry storms. In addition the high altitude steering winds now have enough strength to overpower the storms desire to head west. One look at the storm plot for October and you can see what I mean. There are fewer storms than in September, but the path moves them right over Baja.
[link to www.bajainsider.com]
________________________________________


So your facts are not very solid there Max.

Last Edited by KeepingItReal on 10/20/2009 02:01 PM

Max and Elle are out camping!

What's unusual about it? How does this storm "prove" the "Zetas" are right? Care to explain?

Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 10/20/2009 02:43 PM

Perseverance, sticking to it,

or should I just say pure doggedness.

Regards
JWD

The fact that it weakens shows that it has done what most storms in the Pacific do. They are monsters out at sea and lose strength near landfall. If Rick hit the Baja as a full on category 5, that would be unusual, but it looks like that won't happen.

Another thing about the Pacific storms is that they can intensify with no warning, like this one did. Hurricane Pauline didn't even get a mention on the national news the day before it hit. It took everyone by surprise. They also weaken dramatically and quickly.

Unusual things happen all the time.

Stuff that happens only once per thousand years still HAPPENS.
If the Madrid Fault were to crack tomorrow and kill a hundred thousand people, it would still be a rare NATURAL occurrence.
No Magical Invisible Fairy Planet™ required to explain it.

Only when Nancy starts to accurately predict stuff that couldn't happen in a universe without PX in it does it become time to listen to what she has to say.

Until then she's just a self-deluded elderly lady hearing voices.


Most people don't seem to understand probability.

Let's assume there is a 31.1% probability that it will rain tomorrow, and a 68.7% probability of sunshine.
That still leaves a number of events with low probability.
Hail, thunderstorm, snow, complete blackout by an invading fleet of UFOs.
Each of these events has a low to extremely low probability, but THERE ARE VERY MANY OF THEM.
A much, much larger number then the number of probable events.
And all those low probabilities added together still sums up to a significant number.

In this case 0.2%. Meaning that (if these probabilities were static) once every 500 days on average it would neither rain or shine.


Actually where I live it only rains 6% of the time.
It just seems like more.

Last Edited by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on 10/20/2009 03:44 PM

[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]

Hmmm, no explanation from Max. What a surprise. I guess it's true....

Oh....and this doesn't look good for them. Just more evidence that Earth is not halted in orbit....especially an August position. If it were, this wouldn't occur as it does every year:

[link to news.yahoo.com]



Last Edited by Circuit Breaker on 10/20/2009 07:36 PM

How are the "Zetas" right? Show us where they have ever said anything about this hail storm happening? Oh, and you do know that hail storms are relatively common right?

>> Oh, and you do know that hail storms are relatively common right?

Not the size of tennis balls! And not covering such a large area and killing SO MUCH wildlife!!

LOL Max. Every time you post a story as supposed proof of Zetas Right it gets shot down, but instead of admitting that the Zetas really weren't right, you change the subject. What does hail in Austria have to do with hurricanes in the Pacific? Sad so many animals died, but that's nature for you. Freak storms happen. They always have, long before Nancy and her pole shift/planet x, and they will continue long after Nancy has died and the last of her followers has accepted that planet x was never here and the pole shift still hasn't happened.

Nancy may in fact be unaware that water can fall from the sky in the form of solid ice.

And let's face it, the Zetas would probably have trouble picking water and ice out of a three-item lineup. I'm not even sure they are clear on the concept of 'sky.'

Yep that's Melfy alright.

Melfy's loyalty is not so much towards Zetatalk but towards Nancy LIEDer.

And there is a reason why............proceeding.

PS: Enjoy your day Socky.

How about this in England, 1843, long before Planet X:

Account no. 1 - Trevor Harley's weather archive pages:

1843: The Great Hailstorm on the 9th with a hailswath across the Midlands and East Anglia, from Oxford to Norfolk. It was perhaps one of the most severe, and perhaps the most detructive,hailstorm ever recorded in Britain. It was extremely destructive, destroying glass and flattening crops. 25 cm hailstones were recorded, and in places the stones lay 1.5 m deep. The thunderstorms were accompanied by tornadoes. Trees were uprootted and crops were ruined, and the General Hail Insurance company (later the Norwich Union) was formed as a consequence.

Account no. 2 - from the Wimpole village web site:

'A most dreadful storm passed over this parish and caused the most serious destruction of property. It began about 4 o'clock p.m. and lasted several hours - the lightning and hail were terrific, the former like sheets of fire filled the air and ran along the ground, the latter as large as pigeon's eggs; some larger and others large angular masses of ice....

The destruction of property was dreadful! All the windows on the north side of the Mansion [i.e. Wimpole Hall] were broken, all the hothouses, and every window facing the north in many of the cottages!... The storm entered from the north sea and passed through the land in a SW direction, spreading ruin in its progress - "the land before it was as the Garden of Eden, behind it a barren and desolate wilderness". The corn over which it passed was entirely threshed out, boughs and limbs torn off the trees, pigeons and crows killed, many sheep struck by lightning, and what the hail and lightning did not utterly destroy, the rain which fell in torrents finished.

Such was the violence of the rain and its continuance that a stream rolled down Arrington Hill four or five feet deep, washed men off their feet, and carried away 30 or 40 feet of the Park wall. But amidst all this affliction God was merciful; no human lives were lost, and the destruction of property, although grievous, was partial.' (Rector H.R.Yorke writing in 1843 in the Church Registers, Wimpole, Cambridgeshire)

Account no. 3 - from the Torro journal, Convection (500K PDF file):

9 August 1843 Taking into account the length and width of the hail swath, and the mean and peak intensity, this was probably Britain’s most destructive recorded single hailstorm. Near Enstone (Oxfordshire), Welsh and Stonesfield roofing slates were “pounded to pieces”. The city of Cambridge experienced widespread destruction of glass, chimney pots, and slates. The hail and wind storm caused massive destruction to trees and window glass in the vicinities of Biggleswade (Bedfordshire), Thetford (where “the hail and hurricane broke every window which faced the onslaught”), and Norwich (intensity H7, swath length 255km).

Account no. 4, from the Birmingham Archives:

JWP [James Watt Papers] MII/10/5 (27a): C.H. Turner (London) to James Watt junior (Doldowlod), 25 August 1843:

'...Mr John Wilkinson writes, that 9 days after the Hail Storms at Tew, he took up Hail stones 6 1/2 inches diam. and sent 2 Cartloads of Ice to the Ice House - I have requested Symes to have this attested!!! Damage to crops estimated at 3000£....'

On 28 Aug. James Watt jun. replied to this [27b]:

'...Mr Jones Wilkinson's account of the Hailstones at Tew is certainly of the marvellous kind, and it is lucky for him he was not struck by any of these 6 1/2 inchers!! The storm did not reach us here...'

Analysis

Sadly, searches to date have failed to turn up much contextual data to accompany this event. All we can say is that a massive storm, probably supercellular in nature, tracked for 255km in a reportedly WSW direction from the North Sea into the S Midlands. Violent straight-line and possibly tornadic winds accompanied the system. The synoptic set-up in which the storm occurred would have to account for severe instability. Such setups are most frequently associated in Summer with so-called Spanish Plumes - where heatwave conditions are associated with shallow low pressure systems developing in the Iberia - NW France area moving north across the UK, to collide with colder air to the N and W.

[link to www.geologywales.co.uk]


And this:
Hail has sometimes have played a part in shaping history. In 1788, for example, a series of destructive hailstorms destroyed much of the year's crops in France. The resulting food shortage worsened the plight of already impoverished peasants and is credited with helping incite the French Revolution. Even today, there is little farmers can do to protect crops from hailstones, other than to purchase hailstorm insurance. The danger isn't limited to crops, either. A storm that produces golf-ball to softball sized hail can kill and injure livestock and even people caught out in the open.
[link to www.helium.com]

Or this one in 1880:
[link to www.gendisasters.com]

As you see, nothing new under the sun. Zetas wrong again.

Care to back that up with some real facts?