Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 1,428 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 412,675
Pageviews Today: 800,226Threads Today: 380Posts Today: 8,189
03:53 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 69283946
United States
05/29/2016 05:22 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
No were in Scripture are unbelievers called the elect. The fallacy of Pre-Trib forces incorrect terms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392


No one here is calling unbelievers elect. That is a straw man fallacy.

Perhaps a misunderstanding.

People will get saved during the Tribulation. They will go to heaven if they then die, or will live on into the Millennial Kingdom if they survive.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 69283946
United States
05/29/2016 05:23 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Wrong.

The Tribulation is stated by Jesus to be shortened for the sake of the elect in three Gospels. We suffer during the pre-Wrath period. This is in agreement with these verses:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [b]I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev. 20:4

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Rev 17

4And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments. Rev. 16

If the elect are raptured before the Tribulation, one of this happens!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

Yes, the Wrath of God will be shortened for the elect's sake. The elect here are the Christians who live on earth during the Tribulation. We call them 'Tribulation Saints.'

By the way, the Jewish people, angels and even Yahshua Himself have been called the 'Elect' at different times in the bible.

"We" the Church are not destined to suffer at any time during the Tribulation. Yahshua promised to return and take us to His Father's House in heaven to wait in the bridal chambers for a little while. This will happen while Yahweh's judgment rains down on Israel and "those who dwell upon the earth." Research who the Lord ALWAYS means when He says, "Those who dwell upon the earth." It is not the children of God. It is not the Bride of Christ.

Those beheaded for their testimony, the ones under the alter, will be the martyred Tribulation Saints. These believers will have come to be Christians after the Pre-Trib rapture, and during the Tribulation. Most of them will be killed.

I think the Mother of Harlots will probably be the Catholic church. We know they've killed many true Christians over the eons.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69283946

Quote this Wrath being shortened for the elect. Three Gospels say Tribulation being shortened.

Verses or it's just Dogma.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

More generally, I believe the Great Tribulation, of which I believe the Wrath of God falls within, will be shortened for the sake of the elect. I do not think they need to be separated in this context.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 69283946
United States
05/29/2016 05:27 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Besides this, three Gospels say nothing about a Pre-Trb Rapture, only speak of the Parousia as a Single event, that occurs "at the last trump.

However look at the Trumpets in Revelation!

1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. Rev. 8:1-2

The final trumpet is here:
The Seventh Trumpet

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake,
and great hail. Rev. 11:15-19

Where O Death is Your Victory?

(Isaiah 57:1-2)

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:50-52
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

There are many places in the Gospels and the Old Testament that only talk about the Parousia. In these cases that is what they are talking about, yes. In other places they are clearly not providing evidence for the Parousia, but are instead speaking of the rapture.

There are many trumpet blasts in the End Times. It's good not to confuse them all. There will be a trumpet at the rapture, another at the 2nd Coming, and 7 more during the Tribulation. The "Last Trump" is a special trump that ancient Jewish people recognized as that shofar that blows at the beginning of Yom Teruah, the Feast of Trumpets. It is the trump that lets everyone know when the new year begins. It is also a trump for everyone in and around Jerusalem to gather together and go up into Jerusalem for the Feast. It is called an in-gathering. Sound familiar?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69283946

I forgot to mention an important part of this real Last Trump:

Yom Teruah is known as the day no one knows. It's called this because it comes only after 2 witnesses spot the New Moon of the month from Jerusalem. If it is cloudy on the expected day, they wait until the next day and look again then. This exact day and beginning of the year is not known. It is a secret day, a day in which we know not.

So the 'Last Trump' shofar is always blown on a day which we know not. Sound familiar?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72289392
United States
05/29/2016 05:28 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
No where in Scripture describes Dispensational dogma that forces terms like elect on those who might believe but currently disbelieve.

This nonsense makes a mockery of the Gospels.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72289392
United States
05/29/2016 05:30 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
This Pre-Trib nonsense is as heretical as homosexual marriage!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 69283946
United States
05/29/2016 05:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
No where in Scripture describes Dispensational dogma that forces terms like elect on those who might believe but currently disbelieve.

This nonsense makes a mockery of the Gospels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

Everyone is born into sin. Everyone is a sinner.

Therefore, everyone disbelieves and is not of the elect UNTIL they later believe and become one of the elect.

It is the same for all people at all times.

No one is born an 'elect.'
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 69283946
United States
05/29/2016 05:54 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
This Pre-Trib nonsense is as heretical as homosexual marriage!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

That's another fallacy, from an argumentative perspective. Two different issues are are attempting to compare together in order to try to discredit one by association with the other.

"2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."- John 14:2-3

Where is the Father's House?

Where did Yahshua go when He was raptured?

From where will He come when He comes again?

Where will we be when we are in the place He prepares for us in His Father's House?

When will this happen?

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72282102
Australia
05/29/2016 06:00 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
8 pages of self righteous dicks arguing about a fairytale thats never going to happen.


Wall of text vrs wall of text with 0 mind changes.


Hell is being locked in a room with 2 opposing rapturetards with no way out.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72289392
United States
05/29/2016 07:20 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
No where in Scripture describes Dispensational dogma that forces terms like elect on those who might believe but currently disbelieve.

This nonsense makes a mockery of the Gospels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

Everyone is born into sin. Everyone is a sinner.

Therefore, everyone disbelieves and is not of the elect UNTIL they later believe and become one of the elect.

It is the same for all people at all times.

No one is born an 'elect.'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69283946

Way to be the Devils Advocate. Next good and evil are interchangeable.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66738521
United States
05/29/2016 03:49 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
No where in Scripture describes Dispensational dogma that forces terms like elect on those who might believe but currently disbelieve.

This nonsense makes a mockery of the Gospels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

Everyone is born into sin. Everyone is a sinner.

Therefore, everyone disbelieves and is not of the elect UNTIL they later believe and become one of the elect.

It is the same for all people at all times.

No one is born an 'elect.'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69283946

Way to be the Devils Advocate. Next good and evil are interchangeable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

If you die before you are saved, will you go to heaven? No, of course not.

Then are you an 'elect' when you die in sin? No.

Then are you an 'elect' if you go to hell after death unsaved? Of course not.

You are only deemed an 'elect' when you are saved, not before.

You can argue predestination, but that still requires you to be saved first.

Do you deny that people will be saved during the Tribulation?

So if people can be saved during the Tribulation, they will be called 'elect' right?

They will become 'saints' and they will be living in the Tribulation, so therefore they will be Tribulation Saints that are the 'elect' in the Tribulation.

Simple

There's more. 144,000 Jewish people will come to believe in Yahshua(Jesus) as their Messiah during the Tribulation. In so doing, they will be called Messianic Jews. And they will evangelize Israel, helping to convert that nation over to Yahshua.
And these Jews will also be called the 'elect.'

None of this is advocating for the devil. None of this is suggesting swapping good for evil. These are gross baseless accusations unless you can show some scripture detailing why the devil advocates this. Which he doesn't. He would rather you think you have to work and earn your way through the Tribulation to be saved by your own hands (while he reigns there and can more easily convert or kill you), for he is the author of Secular Humanism and of lies and of confusion.

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72291566
Australia
05/29/2016 04:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
No where in Scripture describes Dispensational dogma that forces terms like elect on those who might believe but currently disbelieve.

This nonsense makes a mockery of the Gospels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

Everyone is born into sin. Everyone is a sinner.

Therefore, everyone disbelieves and is not of the elect UNTIL they later believe and become one of the elect.

It is the same for all people at all times.

No one is born an 'elect.'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69283946

Way to be the Devils Advocate. Next good and evil are interchangeable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

If you die before you are saved, will you go to heaven? No, of course not.

Then are you an 'elect' when you die in sin? No.

Then are you an 'elect' if you go to hell after death unsaved? Of course not.

You are only deemed an 'elect' when you are saved, not before.

You can argue predestination, but that still requires you to be saved first.

Do you deny that people will be saved during the Tribulation?

So if people can be saved during the Tribulation, they will be called 'elect' right?

They will become 'saints' and they will be living in the Tribulation, so therefore they will be Tribulation Saints that are the 'elect' in the Tribulation.

Simple

There's more. 144,000 Jewish people will come to believe in Yahshua(Jesus) as their Messiah during the Tribulation. In so doing, they will be called Messianic Jews. And they will evangelize Israel, helping to convert that nation over to Yahshua.
And these Jews will also be called the 'elect.'

None of this is advocating for the devil. None of this is suggesting swapping good for evil. These are gross baseless accusations unless you can show some scripture detailing why the devil advocates this. Which he doesn't. He would rather you think you have to work and earn your way through the Tribulation to be saved by your own hands (while he reigns there and can more easily convert or kill you), for he is the author of Secular Humanism and of lies and of confusion.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 66738521


Yet another person who refuses to read the opening post.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72289392
United States
05/29/2016 05:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
72291566

You have run the good race, and explained it as well as you can numerous times.

You are casting pearls before swine. They just have become intransigent instead of critical thinkers.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72291566
Australia
05/29/2016 05:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
72291566

You have run the good race, and explained it as well as you can numerous times.

You are casting pearls before swine. They just have become intransigent instead of critical thinkers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392


Hearing only what they want to hear.

And knowing only what they heard.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72289392
United States
05/29/2016 06:07 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Most Christians don't read the Bible deeply, but rely upon others to do the heavy lifting.

Once you start intensive study, often due to passionate belief or taking witnessing classes, then the Pre-Tribulation Rapture dogma doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Then when you find out about all of Dispensational theology, from Darby to Scofield to present day, you see how heretical it ALL is.

The Pre-Tribbers would be wise to do this last bit.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72289392
United States
05/29/2016 06:18 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
I certainly that the great falling away will be due to massacred Christians during the Great Tribulation. They have bet the farm on unbiblical saved by the bell Rapture theology, and when it doesn't save them, they will lose their faith.

Lots will take the mark of the Beast.

I fully expect martyrdom in my lifetime.

It's my personal belief that Jihadists and the Mahdi will play a role as sexual slavery, torture, and beheadings of Christians are happening now.



3373

User ID: 70016058
Romania
05/29/2016 06:23 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
The OP is right. Congratulations mate!
www.nunes3373.com

THE TRUTH...in portuguese...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72291566
Australia
05/29/2016 06:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Most Christians don't read the Bible deeply, but rely upon others to do the heavy lifting.

Once you start intensive study, often due to passionate belief or taking witnessing classes, then the Pre-Tribulation Rapture dogma doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Then when you find out about all of Dispensational theology, from Darby to Scofield to present day, you see how heretical it ALL is.

The Pre-Tribbers would be wise to do this last bit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392


Especially telling is Scofield was a MASON.

Look it up.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66738521
United States
05/29/2016 06:53 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
...

Everyone is born into sin. Everyone is a sinner.

Therefore, everyone disbelieves and is not of the elect UNTIL they later believe and become one of the elect.

It is the same for all people at all times.

No one is born an 'elect.'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69283946

Way to be the Devils Advocate. Next good and evil are interchangeable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

If you die before you are saved, will you go to heaven? No, of course not.

Then are you an 'elect' when you die in sin? No.

Then are you an 'elect' if you go to hell after death unsaved? Of course not.

You are only deemed an 'elect' when you are saved, not before.

You can argue predestination, but that still requires you to be saved first.

Do you deny that people will be saved during the Tribulation?

So if people can be saved during the Tribulation, they will be called 'elect' right?

They will become 'saints' and they will be living in the Tribulation, so therefore they will be Tribulation Saints that are the 'elect' in the Tribulation.

Simple

There's more. 144,000 Jewish people will come to believe in Yahshua(Jesus) as their Messiah during the Tribulation. In so doing, they will be called Messianic Jews. And they will evangelize Israel, helping to convert that nation over to Yahshua.
And these Jews will also be called the 'elect.'

None of this is advocating for the devil. None of this is suggesting swapping good for evil. These are gross baseless accusations unless you can show some scripture detailing why the devil advocates this. Which he doesn't. He would rather you think you have to work and earn your way through the Tribulation to be saved by your own hands (while he reigns there and can more easily convert or kill you), for he is the author of Secular Humanism and of lies and of confusion.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 66738521


Yet another person who refuses to read the opening post.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72291566

I have read it.

And I have refuted it, in detail:

Here's my line-by-line rebuttal of the OP's prolific article: [link to tr.im (secure)]

And so have others here.

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66738521
United States
05/29/2016 07:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
72291566

You have run the good race, and explained it as well as you can numerous times.

You are casting pearls before swine. They just have become intransigent instead of critical thinkers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

Not at all. I have studied the OP's article in detail. And much critical thought has gone into my scriptural rebuttal of the OP's position. I encourage you to read and critique my rebuttal in detail.

Here's my line-by-line rebuttal, with ample scriptural evidence, of the OP's opening and prolific article: [link to tr.im (secure)]

I too have thought about my casting of pearls before the swine, but if other non-biased readers can gain anything useful from this discussion, then I'll consider my contending for the faith to be a success.

Be a Berean.

Peace

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72295535
United States
05/29/2016 07:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
So nice that so many people can devote their energies to specious garbage like this, rather than wasting their time feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, healing the sick and shit like that.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66738521
United States
05/29/2016 07:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Most Christians don't read the Bible deeply, but rely upon others to do the heavy lifting.

Once you start intensive study, often due to passionate belief or taking witnessing classes, then the Pre-Tribulation Rapture dogma doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Then when you find out about all of Dispensational theology, from Darby to Scofield to present day, you see how heretical it ALL is.

The Pre-Tribbers would be wise to do this last bit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

I believe in studying the bible deeply and intensively. I think we should all do it to discern difficult to understand truths, with much prayer for understanding.

And I have discovered that not only does Pretribulationism stand up to scrutiny, it has become clear to me that it, and Classical Dispensationalism it is a part of, encompasses the totality of End Times theology better than any other theories.

And if you dislike Dispensationalism, then please offer a valid alternative End Times theology in detail for our dissection and discussion.

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72291566
Australia
05/29/2016 07:26 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
72291566

You have run the good race, and explained it as well as you can numerous times.

You are casting pearls before swine. They just have become intransigent instead of critical thinkers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

Not at all. I have studied the OP's article in detail. And much critical thought has gone into my scriptural rebuttal of the OP's position. I encourage you to read and critique my rebuttal in detail.

Here's my line-by-line rebuttal, with ample scriptural evidence, of the OP's opening and prolific article: [link to tr.im (secure)]

I too have thought about my casting of pearls before the swine, but if other non-biased readers can gain anything useful from this discussion, then I'll consider my contending for the faith to be a success.

Be a Berean.

Peace

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 66738521


So called rebuttal was conjecture and guesses and based mostly on what that mason scofield wrote.

It didnt have a single scripture anywhere that early states WHEN it occurs unlike the opening post which had a TON of scripture clearly stating not only the when but the how and the why and the who.

All you had were twisted meanings.

Ops post was crystal clear straight from the bible sord for word exposition.

If you did read it you did it with a very closed mind.

Because like most pre tribbers you hear only what you WANT to hear and you know ONLY what you heard.

I knkw this to be true because i know how that mental process works as I was pre trib for a very long time until God opened my eyes.

No person could tell me otherwise no matter how much scripture they proved it with.

Only God can open someones eyes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 109229
United States
05/29/2016 07:29 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Nope......not reading it once, let alone twice.....cause it's a complete waste of time. The rapture is in the middle of the final 7 years. I've already did my own personal study on it in the book of revelation.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 57377310
United States
05/29/2016 07:33 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
No rapture. That's a church Christian thing. Real Christians don't fall for such nonsense.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72289392
United States
05/29/2016 07:33 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Skip the doctrines of men and read the Bible.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66738521
United States
05/29/2016 07:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
I certainly that the great falling away will be due to massacred Christians during the Great Tribulation. They have bet the farm on unbiblical saved by the bell Rapture theology, and when it doesn't save them, they will lose their faith.

Lots will take the mark of the Beast.

I fully expect martyrdom in my lifetime.

It's my personal belief that Jihadists and the Mahdi will play a role as sexual slavery, torture, and beheadings of Christians are happening now.

...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

The "falling away" or "departure" comes first before the man of sin is revealed. But the man of sin is not revealed until the first Seal of Revelation is broken, thus revealing the white horseman of the apocalypse, the Antichrist. This begins the Tribulation.

That means the "departure" will come before the beginning of the Tribulation. There are several different thoughts on what the "departure" is. The Greek word here has a few different meanings within the bible. I think this means the departure of Christians from earth just before the beginning of the Tribulation, when the man of sin is revealed. And this is consistent with some of the meanings found in other places within the bible.

There will be many massacred new believers during the Tribulation, no doubt. And most if not all of them will be massacred because of their uncompromising faith. They will not renounce Christ, and will be beheaded for their stubbornness. And many weak and pretend Christians of that time will give in to the Antichrist and will deny Christ and receive the Mark of the Beast.

But even if Pretribulationism was discovered to be in error, it will not cause a mass loss of faith. You cannot prescribe motives and outcomes to people whom you do not know. You cannot speak for them. If the Tribulation were to begin and we are all still here, then the Pretribulationists will continue searching their bibles for the truth. Then we will search the scriptures even more for signs of a Mid-Trib, or a Pre-Wrath, or the 4 or 5 Post-Trib rapture theories to see which one is more likely to be accurate.

But we will not lose our faith. That's just absurd. If we see the Antichrist confirm a covenant with many as he takes control of the NWO, then that alone will strengthen our faith in the End Times studies, and we will redouble our efforts at discerning the truth of the End Times and our preparations for the Wrath to Come. And we will begin counting the days until our Messiah returns, for we know that exactly 7 biblical years after the revealing of the Antichrist, our Messiah will return.

So the 'losing their faith' argument is really just another false argument.

And if martyrdom comes to us? Accept it with a patient smile, knowing you will soon be with your Savior. And take that as an opportunity to be brave in Christ, and to get a little last forgiveness and preaching in before the guillotine blade falls.

Maranatha!

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 57377310
United States
05/29/2016 07:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Nope......not reading it once, let alone twice.....cause it's a complete waste of time. The rapture is in the middle of the final 7 years. I've already did my own personal study on it in the book of revelation

le
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Did you skip over this verse like the Protestants and Catholics. Or do you just pick and choose verses you like and don't like. Or are you calling God a cruel jokester.?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66738521
United States
05/29/2016 07:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
So nice that so many people can devote their energies to specious garbage like this, rather than wasting their time feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, healing the sick and shit like that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72295535

Studying and teaching the Word are blessings, to others and to oneself. Without studying and teaching there would be a lot more ignorance in the world.

And the bible is not specious garbage. I'm sorry you feel that way.

And many bible students and teachers also feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick, and stuff like that.

Why the profanity and the hate? Maybe someday one of them will feed, clothe or heal you.

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66738521
United States
05/29/2016 07:56 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
72291566

You have run the good race, and explained it as well as you can numerous times.

You are casting pearls before swine. They just have become intransigent instead of critical thinkers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72289392

Not at all. I have studied the OP's article in detail. And much critical thought has gone into my scriptural rebuttal of the OP's position. I encourage you to read and critique my rebuttal in detail.

Here's my line-by-line rebuttal, with ample scriptural evidence, of the OP's opening and prolific article: [link to tr.im (secure)]

I too have thought about my casting of pearls before the swine, but if other non-biased readers can gain anything useful from this discussion, then I'll consider my contending for the faith to be a success.

Be a Berean.

Peace

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 66738521


So called rebuttal was conjecture and guesses and based mostly on what that mason scofield wrote.

It didnt have a single scripture anywhere that early states WHEN it occurs unlike the opening post which had a TON of scripture clearly stating not only the when but the how and the why and the who.

All you had were twisted meanings.

Ops post was crystal clear straight from the bible sord for word exposition.

If you did read it you did it with a very closed mind.

Because like most pre tribbers you hear only what you WANT to hear and you know ONLY what you heard.

I knkw this to be true because i know how that mental process works as I was pre trib for a very long time until God opened my eyes.

No person could tell me otherwise no matter how much scripture they proved it with.

Only God can open someones eyes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72291566

My rebuttal was no more conjecture than the OP's jumbles article was. I've never studied Scofield so I'll leave you to your bias there.

The bible says we don't know when the rapture will happen, that's the point. We will know however the exact time of the Second Advent(2nd Coming.) That's the contradiction.

The OP's article is full of misinterpretations, that you seem to also agree with.

The OP's post was far from crystal clear. You seem to be a special fan of his work.

My rebuttal was a word-for-word exposition with Greek word studies thrown in for free.

I did study the OP's post with an open mind to learn new things. It took me about two days to do so. How much time have you spent studying it?

I have studied Classical Dispensationalism, Pre-Millennialism, Amillennialism, Post-Millennialism, Preterism, and a few others. Within Dispensationalism, I have studied Pretribulationism, Partial Rapture Theory, Midtribulationism, Pre-Wrath Theory, and about 4 or 5 different flavors of Posttribulationism. Of all these, I believe Classical Dispensational Pre-Millennial Pretribulationism to be the most likely theology to most accurately understand and reflect the study of the End Times in the bible. You may conclude differently. That's on you.

You don't know anyone except for yourself, maybe. Please don't think you know entire sectors of believers. People are all different on may levels.

I pray that Yahweh will open your eyes. And I also pray that He will show me Truth in all things.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."- 1 Corinthians 13:12

Peace

.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 57377310
United States
05/29/2016 08:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!
Jesus did say he dosent come to unite but to divide. He wasn't kidding. I have never seen so much division in my life. It's obvious that many people are carnally interpreting the bible.





GLP