The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

So believe 'eternal punishment' refers to a person ceasing to exist eternally? If a person is no longer exists, he / she can no longer be eternally punished.

Doesn't make sense.

I can almost see how that sick twisted monster God of the bible would want to slap you senseless but wont.

If you would quit being such a follower and find out for yourself, life would get much better.

The sick twisted monster hopes you quit using the "brains" around you and start thinking for yourself.

it is punishment because you don't get to be with the Father/Creator.

there is a scripture that says that when we die we are instantly with the Father. this is true even in the purification process. it is with Divine Holy fire that we are purified. God is present every moment of it.

Everyone will go thru this process. The thing is, is how long will it take?

But you stated, "they will cease to exist (eternally)?"

You're not contradicting yourself.

^^ You're now contradicting yourself.

Matthew 25:30 [youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]

maybe i am not explaining myself well.

when you die, you will go thru a purification process. it takes as long as it takes. for some, they refuse to repent (become purified) therefore they cannot reside in the holiest place.

holy cannot be in the same place as unholy.
if there is anything unholy in a person, it is either "burned away" with holy divine "fire" or it isn't.

for those that refuse to be purified, they will go to the same place as Satan, the False Prophet, demons and death. This is the second death. there is no more for these after that point. They simply will not exist anymore.

tell me something, when you are face to face with Jesus, will you still deny Him? hardly.

but, some will. some will refuse to let go of the evil parts of themselves. these will be eradicated with all evil.

why do you christians always want to TELL people this and that, go on and on about your fanatical prophecies of doom for the world and insane promises of some other-dimensional paradise, but you never LISTEN when people show you exactly how you are fucking berzerkoid batshit crazy???

whacko cult freaks

Oh come on, are you really nitpicking that one close. She clearly told you that it is punishment because you don't get to be with the creator, and I do happen to agree.

If you wish to argue athiestic religion, let me know. I enjoy those.

kk. Whacko cult freak here, and am waiting your take on reality.

If you never state it, it never counts.

So again, if a person cease to exist how does he / she experience 'eternal punishment (greek: kolasis)'?

Doesn't make sense that someone who is completely annihilated and conscious of nothing, would still experience 'eternal punishment'.

Sinners cannot live in heaven with God, or heaven would turn into Hell. We all have to be purified to live in God's presence and to live in perfect harmony and love with our brothers. A common belief is that all fleshly Christians still sinning will be instantly purified in the last minute of their lives,* to then live in heaven. This is wrong because God will never take away our free will; and if he purifies us without our having learned to loathe and hate our selfish habits and addictions, once instantly purified, we would drift back into the same patterns of selfish behaviors that cause us to embrace sin. So in this life or the next, we have to: 1) discover the bitterness of the passions and pleasures that our hearts desire, and 2) over time suffer the consequences of our passions and pleasures, while longing to have them removed by desperately seeking the grace of God to be changed.

In Hell, our passions are unrestrained, similar to how we are without restraint to lusts and violence in our dreams. For our passions are the worst of tyrants. When we are placed so that we are entirely given up to them, they will torment the heart, and, like a torrent, sweep all before them, and yet never be satisfied. We must discover that true liberty is to be found only in him, whose truth shall set us free, and who shall lead us to understand only in virtuous actions (serving him) are we really free. In this way, when our heart's defects are removed, one at a time, we are certain not to return to sin in our free wills. Love never insists on its own way, instead it helps us see the error of the wrong way, so we can choose the right way; and then rewards us with the grace of change, finally resulting in purity.

*This stems from 1 Cor 15:41-52, we all shall be changed in a twinkling of the eye at the last trumpet ... the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. This is true; the last step in a long process of change is in the twinkling of the eye. But before the twinkling-of-an-eye change, we must learn the extent of the evil in our hearts and learn to hate evil so much, that we would never consider returning to our selfish ways. Then we, having been alive in corruption, but dead to the life of God, are raised to the incorruptible Life in God. But corruption cannot inherit incorruption; the corruption in us must be seen, detested, abhorred, and finally destroyed. That which shows us our sins, takes them away, which is grace.

Until we have learned from the Holy Spirit teaching us what is evil vs. good, love vs. lust, sin vs. righteousness, which process teaches us to hate anything evil and love all good, we would not even enjoy heaven because we would long for our addictions that are not available there. Jesus told us the same in the parable: No one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires the new wine, for he will say, 'The old wine is better.' Luke 5:39. A man must crucify his lusts and affections on the inward cross of self-denial before he can enjoy fellowship in the heavens.

Purification on earth is much easier than purification in Hell; purification in Hell is a horrible, obsessive experience to be avoided if at all possible. A description of Hell from Him to me, to be relayed to you is: "a lot of pain with unexpected love; a lot of pain to be made fit for reconstruction." For ALL will be reconciled to God. All will be saved. Your life in heaven will be far more rewarding if you attain purification while on earth. But, even if you have to pass through Hell, your resulting life will be much better than life on earth. So there is HOPE FOR ALL!

[link to www.hallvworthington.com]

ok, try and wrap your head around this:

you die, you are instantly in the presence of Jesus. You are in the presence of the Holiest and Divine Creator. You feel His perfect love. In His presence is perfect love, perfect everything, divine, holy, bliss, wonderful. During this time, you are being cleansed and made perfect so you can remain in His presence, and reside with Him there forever. With Him and all the others there. Your loved ones, other holy people, etc. It's so wonderful it's more than words can describe. But, the evil things are being "burned" away, cleansed, broken off.

Most will willingly go thru the process to be able to be in that Holy place.

Some can't let go.

Tell me, if you can't be there, is that not punishment?

eternal punishment is a rough translation.

basically it means cut off forever, anhilated, eternally separated.

it doesn't mean that you reside somewhere forever being punished. it means that the punishment happens at one point, and it cannot be undone. it lasts for ever.

make sense?

Is God Schizophrenic?

[link to www.savior-of-all.com]

Nothing like translating scriputre from the Words written to what the men's translations make them.

It makes all seem so much better than what it says in written form.

It even makes hell look like a place designed and purposed for salvation.

Saved by the hell.

The original greek word is 'kolasis' for 'punishment'.

Kolasis - penal infliction, punishment, torment.

The preceding word is of course 'aionios', which is also the same word when used regarding eternal (aionios) life for the righteous.

Aionios - perpetual, eternal forever, everlasting.

I would say, it's pretty clear, and doesn't refer to annihilation.

i hear you. and i agree partially.
the bottom line is evil is annihilated.
perhaps it will still reside "somewhere"
all i know is it is cut off forever and rendered inactive, finished.

i read some stuff that says that God cannot and will not go back on His creation. so.... i don't know.

i will study that word in more depth.

at any rate, there is much that happens before any person gets to the point of the second death.

If you think 'eternal punishment' refers to a person being annihilated, and forever away from God.

How do you explain this:

Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

If a person is completely annihilated and conscious of nothing, how do they have 'no rest day or night'? Also it doesn't state, the smoke of their destruction, but rather, the smoke of their 'torment (greek basanismos)' that rises forever and ever.



Basanismos -

i have some ideas about the receiving of the mark and going to hell.

i think it has something to do with some type of deeply embedded evil that is impossible to purify.


do not take the mark people. seriously. even if it means physical death.

also, there are some (including myself) who think that when it gets to that point, God's people (the church/body of believers) won't be here - they will be raptured.

this has to do with the scriptures on the restrainer, etc. i did a thread on this recently. i will try to dig it up.

so, the ones left here denied God in this life. things for them will be different.

Welp, I know you have been waiting to toss that one out there, but I really never said that 'eternal punishment' = annihilated.

The ones that refuse will know becuause he isn't with them. As a trolling athiest, this should crack you up. But then again, I think you are actually looking for some truth, not just trolling replies.

Forgive me if I'm wrong.

There is an awful lot of Mormon Doctrine being spouted in this thread...just saying. I don't necessarily disagree with any of it.

3 Kingdoms in the afterlife. Celestial Kingdom...dwell with God the Father and recieve all ordinances and blessings, including Godhood of one's own planet to populate with your own spirit children.

Tellestial Kingdom - Recieve benefits from the Son, Jesus Christ, and serve those in Celestial

Terrestrial Kingdom - Much like Now, but restored paradise the only problem is that folk are testy that they can see the glory of the Son and the father but not partake in it.

here is the whole chapter. i think it is important to read at least 10-20 verses before and after each scripture to grasp the entire context.

Revelation 14

New International Version (NIV)
The Lamb and the 144,000

14 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
The Three Angels

6 Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

8 A second angel followed and said, “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’ which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
Harvesting the Earth and Trampling the Winepress

14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

So are you an atheist?

It is humbling to read it again.

Btw, I do believe in an eternal hell. This comes from much research, outside the Bible.

true that.

see the part i bolded and underlined above?
this is the part that most people cannot grasp.

IN THE PRESENCE of the Holy Angels and the Lamb.....

I used to be but got smacked in the head good and realized what life actually was. I did used to spend my time messing with Christians just to get a rise out of them. My favorite story was about Moses and a minor flood where he and his relatives floated around a few days on a barn door with a chicken and a cat or two.

I have since seen what life is and how easy it really is. In my previous arrogance I didn't see how what I did effected so many other things. I know for a fact that God is real and truely wants to know you.

Strange how life changes.