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WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month

 
deplorable recollector  (OP)

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10/27/2020 10:09 AM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
DR what about uprisings in those countries affected ? Will we see major riots or even something worse?
 Quoting: Pillar of Poland


common sense really bud. Alot of people dont want to lcokdown coz Freedums and that will skyrocket the numbers.
Govtments are in a hard place right now.

Lockdown and cause mass riots or open up and have massive infections.

The only way is to go Chinese style send in Military and weld all doors
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79547821


In all fairness most are rightly correct when not trusting the government, they cried wolf far to many times they have no creditablity
 Quoting: CDC ATL



Yep.


The governments acted politically, messaging was, at best, contradictory, and the measures were NEVER actually enforced.


Government should NEVER be trusted in what they say or do.


But that is beyond the point. The point is that we're rolling at 100 mph towards a thick, concrete wall.
deplorable recollector  (OP)

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10/27/2020 10:11 AM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
Thanks DR

Could I ask you how much damage control could be done if lockdowns were implemented this week ? (A fools hope I know) Or is it very much too late and given the current trajectory would it only delay your predictions by a few more weeks if lockdowns did happen imminently?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79531137



The effects of lock-downs will be felt usually 4 weeks after being in place.

So, for Europe, I don't see any changes for November. It might not get as bad as 60,000 patients in ICU at the end of November (yesterday there were just over 17k in ICU in Europe), but it won't be much less bad.


Localized full lock-downs, this week, in big urban areas might chip up to 6,000 ICU beds, and Europe could get to 55,000 -ish in ICU at the end of November...but that won't mean much, to be honest.


The hospitals will still be full, and ICU beds in large urban areas full before mid-November.



Frankly, I don't see any change for what I projected for November, in Europe, even if lock-downs hit today.

The changes will start to be seen in December, if drastic measures are in place this week.
 Quoting: deplorable recollector



Hi DR! Thank you for your great work. I'm Italian and I'm sharing it on Italian forum and they start taking your numbers and forecast seriously.
What's your opinion about Slovakia and Italy? Slovakia has implemented a light lockdown. May it work? They're gonna test the entire population between 10 and 65.
In Italy localized lockdowns (in metro area such as Naples and Milan) are highly likely. The curve is going up like crazy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79538979



Not even a full lock-down will change the trend for November.


Localized measures won't work, because we can't enforce them, and most people don't give a fuck.


Light lock-down = no lock-down.



Those who don't know history, are bound to repeat it.


We are now witnessing the repeat of Spanish Flu second wave : governments doing virtually nothing, people thinking it's a hoax, and riots in major cities.

It is going to get a lot worse in the next weeks.

Last Edited by Recollector on 10/27/2020 10:13 AM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
Since it is now October 27th, and the earliest lock-downs, at city level in Europe MIGHT start on Friday, 30th of October, it is clear that nation-wide lock-downs won't happen this month, as I expected.


Schools are still open, and I have said that any country that will have its schools open through October, will suffer extensively, and if the virus mutates after being exposed to younger hosts, it will be even worse.


I have also estimated that up to 25% of the population will be infected in this second wave, with up to 5% of them being infected in October, the rest up to 20% in the next 5 months (November 2020 - March 2021).


November is going to see about 7% of the population in Europe being infected by the virus, with slightly higher proportion in Western Europe, and slightly lower in Central, Eastern and Southern Europe, with large urban areas seeing the majority of the cases. The differences won't be big, and the pandemic in Europe will pretty much look the same in every country, through November, and especially towards the end of November.

The U.S. infections will start to ramp up this week, and by the end of November they will reach about 5% of the population being infected, most of them in the northern half of the U.S., concentrated in the large urban areas.


I won't bother breaking down the numbers to reflect the differences between rural areas / small towns and large urban areas.

This is not the point of this update.


The point of this update is to determine when the healthcare systems are going to be overwhelmed, in Europe and the U.S.


My estimates might be a bit higher then reality, and the rate of infection was not 5% in October, in Europe, but lower. But not much lower as to affect November.


I have previously said that Europe will completely lose control over the virus by the end of this month...and it is pretty much clear that most countries did lost it, and a handful that haven't already, are on the brink of losing it.

This week will be crystal clear that all of Europe lost control over the virus, and even if a full lock-down is implemented today, the effects will be felt at the end tail of November.


When looking at a 7% of the population being infected by the end of November, it is obvious that the medical system will collapse (as in any extra cases needing hospitalization won't be able to get it once hospitals are full).

We can see up to 3% of the population in Europe getting the virus by mid-November, and 4% between mid to end of November.


Europe's population (w/o Russia) is roughly 600 million. Based on my estimations, 3% of them (or roughly 18 million) will get infected by mid-November, and another 4% (24 million) between mid and end of November.


The overall positivity that I have calculated and posted in the previous major update, points to roughly 15% across Europe, which means that in reality, the number of infected people will be up to 4 times higher then the number of official detected cases, which in the case of 18 million real infected people by mid-November, means that the official cases will be roughly 4 times less, to around 4.5 million in the first 15 days or November.

It could be less, but not much less.


If my estimations are correct, Europe (w/o Russia) will see a median of around 300k official cases / day, in the first 15 days of November, with under 300k official cases at the beginning of November, and over 300k official cases toward mid-November.

After mid-November, 4% (or 24 million people) of Europe's population (w/o Russia) will contract the virus. The positivity rate of official testing will be close to 20% across Europe, which means the real number will be about 5 times higher, which ends up with an official number of cases across Europe in the range of 4.8 million cases in the last 15 days of November.

The median number of official cases in the last 15 days of November, across Europe, will be around 320k, lower at the beginning of the period, and higher towards the end.


It is highly likely that testing will increase, and the number of official cases to get higher, but that doesn't change the real numbers, it only changes the official numbers.


What these numbers mean, for Europe, in terms of hospitalizations and ICU?

Looking at what we know, there is a correlation between official cases (a non-reliable data) and hospitalization (a reliable -as much as we can rely on it- data).

About 10% of the official cases result in hospitalization. Even if the number of official cases is not real, we can assume that everyone that ends up in hospital gets tested for Covid-19, and the part of official cases that are linked to hospitalizations is as real as it gets, even of the overall official cases is clearly under the real number of infected.


Until recently (start of October), the number of new hospitalization was lower, on par, or slightly less then hospital discharges.

After mid-October, the number of new hospitalization rose to roughly 2 to 1 to discharges, and things won't get better in November.

So we can expect that 5% of the official cases will ADD to hospital bed capacity, which for November as a whole, for Europe, means over 900k hospitalization load, with around 450k discharges, ending up with roughly 450,000 ADDITIONAL hospital beds occupied by the end of November.


Now this is for the entire Europe, but remember, most of them will be in large urban areas, and I simply cannot see how the medical system can support such numbers.

As for ICU, about 10% of those hospitalized end up in ICU, and for Europe, this means an additional 45,000 ICU patients at the end of November.


The ONLY way to support such numbers, is for Germany to open up their hospitals for everyone in Europe, and most countries to call in the military medical resources to lessen the pressure on the civilian medical system, as well as calling back every single retired doctor and nurse, AND medical students.

And that is for NOVEMBER...


If Europe is going to see 300k official cases / day, starting in November, all my calculations will be correct, and we will see what my numbers are picturing : a war-like effort, across whole Europe, with military doctors, retired doctors and nurses, medical students and most likely volunteers (for food, cleaning, etc.) being called up.


The U.S. will see the same by mid-December, if they are lucky to push it up until mid-December.



AND WE STILL HAVE TO LOCK-DOWN, even if we are able to pull off ALL the resources (material and medical), because December and January will look just like November.



What I have said until now is the reason why I think full lock-downs are inevitable.


There is no way we can face what I have described, for months on a row. The society will be simply overwhelmed, nothing will function properly.

Our current population doesn't have the memory of a pandemic. We don't know HOW bad can it be. We didn't even been educated, or indoctrinated about pandemics.

Our movies about pandemics are under sci-fi or fantasy category. We always considered them as FICTIONAL and unlikely to happen, because we have massive technological advancement...without realizing that the medical field of today, when facing a pandemic, is pretty much THE SAME as the one 100 years ago.


We know a lot about wars. Movies, history and we still have enough elderly that have been in WW2, Korea, Vietnam. We're seen the atrocities in various civil wars. We KNOW that war is bad...but we HAVE NO IDEA (at a societal level) how BAD a pandemic can be.


It is going to get A LOT WORSE before the government will decide to lock-down again, because the governments are afraid of riots. Politicians will consider the lock-down timing based on how the population will perceive the pandemic.


When lock-downs will come, and they will, it will be too late for the medical system, and millions upon millions who will die because lack of medical care.

But when lock-downs will come, they will also come BEFORE the pandemic will be at it's worse, and many people will revolt.


This is why I recently said that Europe will lock-down by mid-November, and martial law by end of November, because martial law will be needed, for what is coming.

But I am afraid that not even martial law will be able to help, and society will break down by the end of this year.



I hope I am wrong.


But if I am not, please prepare, as much as you can, especially mentally, for what is coming.
 Quoting: deplorable recollector



Thanks DR! Would you guess mid-dec before Maritial law in the US? Thanks
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2020 10:27 AM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
Thank you for your update DR.

...

Second: there are many "shadow forces" in Italy that are currently taking advantage of protests in major cities.
Turin: high risk of anarchist clashes.
Milan: high risk of Far-Right forces clashes.
Rome: high risk of BlackBlock and Far-right forces clashes.
South Italy: very high risk of clashes started by clans.

...

 Quoting: Leonero


DARKNESS IS FALLING
deplorable recollector  (OP)

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10/27/2020 11:35 AM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
Over 190 airports in Europe (25% of the total) face bankruptcy if traffic won't resume at normal parameters by end of this year.


Those airports have a total of over 275k employees and account for over 16 billion euros / year revenues.


The impact on local economies served by those airports will be much bigger, and it is hard to calculate how much the loss will be, overall.


Those are mainly regional airports.


Sad part is that traffic won't be back at normal, it will drop to zero once lock-downs are in place. Can't have a proper lock-down if people flying from country to country.


And even if flights won't be grounded, the traffic will greatly diminish.

Last Edited by Recollector on 10/27/2020 11:45 AM
Vego

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10/27/2020 11:42 AM

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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
bump
The bad news is nothing lasts forever. The good news is nothing lasts forever.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
Anonymous Coward
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
thanks for the update! In Germany, Angela Merkel (the chancellor) will meet all state heads tomorrow to decide further measures. It is expected that at least a light-lockdown will be decided on. We all know that this won't be enough. She has been cited with saying that "the (health) system might crash if numbers are doubling for 4 more times". There is talk that new restrictions will include number of contacts and movement restrictions. Still schools are open here, even in hardly hit areas.

I'll continue prepping.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79471260


It amuses me how anyone could have thought a curfew was going to do anything for stoping the spread of the virus. Anyone with a basic notion of how this virus spreads knows this was a joke. The measure was so laughable from the beginning that one is left to interpret that they are just doing it as a step to let most of the people see that only a full lock down can do something, but people need to see it for themselves in order to accept the possibility.
All great truths begin as Blasphemies.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79471260


Looks like the french are reading this
I apologise for my spelling and grammar, Dyslexia is a biatch.

But add on MS and its a whole new world of magic spelling and rambling.

We all love green, thanks in advance :)

So thats how it is, deal with it or keep walking.

We all love green. Thanks in advance :)
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2020 01:19 PM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
DR. thank you for your update. Have you seen this report from the CDC. Healthcare workers accounting for 6% of all hospitalized cases. We are going to burn through our healthcare workers.

[link to www.cdc.gov (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79250744



This is why we are going to need all hands on deck from medical staff, from retired, to military, to students.
 Quoting: deplorable recollector

They should by now already have begun with this.

Part of the economy should be reoriented - like in Germany in WW II towards the war effort - to the "pandemic effort". This will also help with the high unemployment rates now. If I were smoeone who was forced to close down his small business due to the pandemic, I would make sure to get hired in this temporary economy so as not to suffer too much either.

Production of facemasks and other protective equiment will have to get up to speed.

Hospitals will have to be built (like they did in China), many new personnel should be speed-coached so as to be able to help with most needed work in hospital (maybe in testing labs), ways of getting rid of dead bodies fast enough so as to avoid pestilence and contamination should be organized. Soon enough.

And politicians who did not want to "start extinguishing the fire before their house starts to burn" should take the hint.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
And maybe a dictator should stand up and ask the people "DO YOU WANT TOTAL LOCKDOWN???" after getting them educated and informed on what the situation really is and what is at stake - like you were doing in this thread and this update basically, OP.

And they will undoubtedly shout "YES!!!" (if they are not total morons).
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79471260


Looks like the french are reading this
 Quoting: Covid19sars2.0

It will also help with that stupid new situation they got themselves into. This is not the best time for an international conflict with Moslims everywhere.
deplorable recollector  (OP)

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10/27/2020 01:36 PM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79471260


Looks like the french are reading this
 Quoting: Covid19sars2.0

It will also help with that stupid new situation they got themselves into. This is not the best time for an international conflict with Moslims everywhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77603583


It's 2020.


Stupidity is the last thing we should not consider, since it was prevalent this year.
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10/27/2020 01:37 PM

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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
Why isn't Africa being affected by the virus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74646731


They are.

Most of the continent cannot even do a pregnancy test, let alone a COVID test. Add that into the inability to report any accurate stats; corruption; and many villages where people get sick, die, are buried, and that is a normal day.

Oh, and then there is the distrust of any modern medicine.
Fate whispers to the warrior

"You cannot withstand the storm"

the warrior whispers back

"I am the storm"

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Red Hot Chilean Pepe

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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79471260


Looks like the french are reading this
 Quoting: Covid19sars2.0

It will also help with that stupid new situation they got themselves into. This is not the best time for an international conflict with Moslims everywhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77603583


It's 2020.


Stupidity is the last thing we should not consider, since it was prevalent this year.
 Quoting: deplorable recollector


Thanks for putting it so succinctly LJS, I think this is exactly how things are rolling in Africa, and to a great extent in India.
All great truths begin as Blasphemies.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Leonero


.


This is the thing with this virus : mild cases can and will evolve into serious cases, and even if the hospitals won't admit mild cases, many of those mild cases will become serious, because they are not treated in a hospital, under medical supervision.


So, even if the hospital pressure will lower the moment mild cases are no longer admitted, this will only last DAYS, before the pressure of hospitalizations will go back up and be bigger then before.

 Quoting: deplorable recollector

Let's not let mild cases evolve into serious cases.

AFAIK at this moment, zinc + quercetin is the solution for this (apart from the usual normal immune strength maintained by a healthy diet with vit. D.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79471260


It amuses me how anyone could have thought a curfew was going to do anything for stoping the spread of the virus. Anyone with a basic notion of how this virus spreads knows this was a joke. The measure was so laughable from the beginning that one is left to interpret that they are just doing it as a step to let most of the people see that only a full lock down can do something, but people need to see it for themselves in order to accept the possibility.
 Quoting: Red Hot Chilean Pepe


Maybe, just maybe, they knew it wouldn't work but as you can see all the right wing denialists, even on this site, maybe they had hopped to appeal to people's decency to do the right thing and self lockdown whenever they could. Instead, as you see on this site, people still think it is a hoax, people mock the virus, mocking any mitigation efforts, etc. I am very much sorry for the role that GLP is playing in exacerbating this pandemic. It is shameful.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
OP would you guess mid-december and the US will have Martial law?
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
·
2h
Sweden recorded 1,870 new coronavirus cases on Friday, the biggest one-day increase on record, according to figures released today
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
deplorable recollector  (OP)

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10/27/2020 02:29 PM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
OP would you guess mid-december and the US will have Martial law?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69024664


The U.S. is a very different beast. Let's wait for election results first.


Trump's tweets about the pandemic are 100% political since January. Nothing but smoke for elections.


Let's wait and see how Trump's discourse will change (because it will change), once the elections are over.

Let's wait and see what will happen if Trump or Biden win by a small margin, and how they and their supporters act in such scenario.


The U.S. is much more unpredictable then Europe.


There is no way to predict how things will go in the U.S., before elections are over.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
Hmm opee, where are the videos of overwhelmed ICUs and trucks full of dead stiffs? Hmmmm?

Why is China completely back open?, (literally 1 month after they were in full panic)

Opee will not answer these questions, and he will ban me for asking.

Why?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78374250


He has answered these questions countless times. Feel free to go back through and actually read the pages.
The bad news is nothing lasts forever. The good news is nothing lasts forever.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
FRENCH PRESIDENT MACRON TO GIVE TV ADDRESS ON WEDNESDAY, 8 PM - ELYSEE
Martha Edwards

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10/27/2020 02:38 PM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
Brilliant update DR , I always look forward to reading your posts
Breezing through life
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
deplorable recollector  (OP)

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10/27/2020 03:12 PM
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79471260



They should stop reading my thread.


Jokes aside, as I have said, they will wait until the last possible moment (almost full ICU usage) to lock-down, they will wait U.S. elections results, but not later then mid-November, before full lock-downs in Europe.


The result of such a late lock-down?


A minimum of FOUR months of lock-down, enforced by martial law, because let's be honest, there is no way that general population will accept the lock-down, especially when the governments will announce a two week lock-down...and it won't end, putting the martial law, as I said before, towards end of November.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
According to today's evening news here, more and more young people without comorbidities in Bulgaria are getting hospitalized and in worse condition than expected for their age and health status.

Anyone else seeing this trend and does it mean that the virus has found a way to attack younger hosts?

Up until now, the virus affected badly pretty much only the older folks and especially the ones with comorbidities.
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Re: WW3 Europe front. UPDATE page 532 -February 2024, the decisive month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79471260


It amuses me how anyone could have thought a curfew was going to do anything for stoping the spread of the virus. Anyone with a basic notion of how this virus spreads knows this was a joke. The measure was so laughable from the beginning that one is left to interpret that they are just doing it as a step to let most of the people see that only a full lock down can do something, but people need to see it for themselves in order to accept the possibility.
 Quoting: Red Hot Chilean Pepe



It does

Younger people stop partying and stuff...cafes closed

Totally has an impact albeit not as much as a lockdown





GLP