Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

Canada dude,
How can Slavs be so passionate about a Greek Hellenic name.

You say yourselves 400 million Slavs have created so many nations.......countries populated with Slavic speaking peoples, you have no respect for the Greeks, you insult us by claiming that Slavs are Macedonians.

How can Greeks allow Slavic people to use a Greek name for their language ethnicity and nationality, your propagandist already revised history to script Slavs into the myths and legends of Hellas.

Greece holds the Academic and Moral High Grounds, having never used propaganda at the official diplomatic political level but FYRoM has.....it is a recorded fact which invoked a diplomatic warning to FYRoM's politicians.

GREEKS, so far I have presented:

Genetic evidence from:
-eupedia
-igenea
-genebase
-underhill et al
-semino et al
-rosser et al
-pericic et al
-klyosov
-univ of leicester
-spanish university
-tunisian university
-french and belgian universities

Renaissance artist from Croatia who called himself a Macedonian (1500s)

Evidence that using an acronym for a country name is revolting (Canada 1861) yet you insist on use using the acronym FYROM instead of Macedonia

Evidence on slavic-sounding ancient placenames in and around Macedonia

Numerous ancient Macedonian words that are very similar to the modern ones

Evidence from the univ of berkeley that hellenism in the mediterranean world DECLINED under Alexander the Great

Evidence of only one greek at Alexander's mass wedding of Macedonians and persians at Susa

Evidence of a language other than greek (although greek was used at the court) -Bryant-Abrahahm; Demosthenes and his "Philippics"

Evidence that Macedonians maintained a distinct ethnicity eventhough greek culture was being adopted (Borza)

Evidence of a heavy settlement of greeks into greek Macedonia in the last 100 years and the displacement of native slav-speaking Macedonians from that land

and

Evidence of medievel Sicilian greeks forcing their Macedonian prisoners to speak greek

there's lots more available, too

No doubt that Greeks are possessed by their past. Their glorious past of which all that remained is sadly the already mentioned "something physical" here and there. As if they had nothing to offer nor hold unto but those poor ruins.

Ohh riiight, anyone who does not consent to the lies of the western history books is a pervert. Anyone offering an alternative view is a pervert as well. Weeell that makes me a pervert if I do not believe the lies about my origins as they were written and twisted in your history books.
And why do you generalize all Slavonics? "you Slav guys" ..are you really that ignorant? Just how do Slovaks humiliate and ridicule the Greeks? Slovaks and Greeks were always on good terms. You are merely laughable but not funny. Rest in peace.

Slovak dude, as far as I am aware Greeks and Slovaks get on, as do Greeks and the majority of all the other Slavic Nations. My observations are based on the feedback comments from poster's far and wide across the Slavic spectrum claiming to be Slavs, but this can be deceptive I guess.

I do know that Turks claim to be Slavs when they post anti-Greek propaganda on the internet as do the Albanians......

The Balkans is a very backward place, very deceptive people!

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American Philological Association
Ancient Macedonians Vs the ancient Greeks Differences cited by modern historians
Taken from articles on Ancient History published by A.P.A.



Contributors are: 1. D.Brenden Nagle " Macedonian Appropriation of Greek Kulturgechichte" 2. Eugene Borza "Who were (and are) the Macedonians" 3. Edmund F. Bloedow "Diplomatic Negotiations between Darius and Alexander: Historical Implications of the First Phase at Marathus in Phoenicia 333/332 BC"

[1] ".....the appropriation of Greek Kulturgescichte, and the use by non-Greeks for political purposes against Greeks, is less common, and even less well documented. Here I offer an example of highly effective Macedonian use of Greek cultural history to advance propaganda aims of Philip II which had the double aim of blunting Greek criticism of his state-building while at the same time cloaking his work in the legitimizing terminology devised by Greeks for their own, often violent, colonizing and city founding activities."

"camouflage the fact that he was creating a wholly new type of state, a consolidation of ethne under a personal monarchy."

"That it has continued to confuse interpreters is testament to the hegomonic power of Greek cultural history and the adroitness of the Macedonians in using this powerful tool of self-identification against its devisers."

[2] "On the matter of language, and despite attempts to make Macedonian a dialect of Greek, one must accept the conclusion of linguist R.A.Crossland in the recent CAH, that an insufficient amount of Macedonian has survived to know what language it was."

"Macedonian and Greek were mutually unintelligible in the court of Alexander the Great"

"no more proof that Macedonians were Greeks than, e.g., the existence of Greek inscriptions on Thracian vessels and coins proofs that the Thracians were Greeks.

[The Greek inscriptions found in Macedonia are not a proof that the Macedonians were Greeks, just like the Greek inscriptions in found in Thrace do not prove that the Thracians were Greek as well. We know for certain that the Thracians were non-Greek nation, therefore, the using of Greek on the territories of Macedonia and Thrace does not prove that the Thracians nor the Macedonians were Greeks]

"What did others say about Macedonians? Here there is a relative abundance of information", writes Borza, "from Arrian, Plutarch (Alexander, Eumenes), Diodorus 17-20, Justin, Curtius Rufus, and Nepos (Eumenes), based upon Greek and Greek-derived Latin sources. It is clear that over a five-century span of writing in two languages representing a variety of historiographical and philosophical positions the ancient writers regarded the Greeks and the Macedonians as two separate and distinct peoples whose relationship was marked by considerable antipathy, if not outright hostility."

Yet there is much that is different, e.g., their political institutions, burial practices, and religious monuments:

[3] "The designation of Macedonia as part of Greece has intrigued modern critics. This, according to Schachermeyr, is enough to 'take one's breath away'. He went so far as to suggest that, however brief, it encapsulates a whole and bold strategy: to counter the Great King's strategy of attempting to exploit the age-old distinction between Macedonians and Hellenes. The reason for including Macedonia as part of larger Hellas was designed to justify Macedonian participation in the so-called war of revenge. Whatever the truth on this point, on the basis of what we know happened in Macedonia in 480, Alexander had no more grounds for carrying out a war of revenge on behalf of Macedonia than he had on behalf of Athens or Sparta. Of course, Macedonians never regarded their territory as forming part of Greece, and certainly the Greek poleis did not regard Macedonia as being another Greek polis. The reason why Alexander here includes Macedonia as being part of Greece may be an attempt to paper over the glaring anomaly between what Philip and he had just done to 'the rest of Greece' and what he is in the process of doing to the Persian empire. The Persians had never done anything significant against the Macedonians. It is noteworthy that Herodotus, although he provides considerable information on Xerxes' activities when he passed through Macedonia in 480, does not record any acts of destruction--- scarcely surprising if Xerxes was instrumental in Macedonia gaining control of Upper Macedonia."

[4] "What is more important is the that Chaeronea, Thebes, and Agis make a complete mockery of attempting in this context to suggest that the Greeks in Hellas regarded themselves as willing subjects under legitimate Macedonian kings (Philip and Alexander) or- that the inhabitants of the regions he had just conquered did so entirely of their own will".

[We need to refresh our memories about Isocrates' letter to Philip where he, Isocrates, makes clear that: (a) "Philips's ancestors understood that Greeks cannot submit to the rule of a monarch, while non-Greeks actually cannot live without such a regime", and (b) "people of non-kindred race" - was the term used by Isocrates to describe the Macedonians. Obviously, highlighting the distinction between Macedonians and Greeks.]

The epitaph composed by Demosthenes for the common grave of the fallen Hellenes at Chaeronea reads as follows:

"Time whose o'erseeng eye records all human actions, Bear word to mankind what fate was suffered,how Striving to safeguard the holly soil of Hellas Upon Boeotia's plain we died."

"If all the peoples in the regions which Alexander had conquered were willing subjects under the new king, he presumably should not have left any military troops with the satraps he everywhere instated."

[What an arrogant bluff by Alexander, to refer to the conquered people as "willing subjects". What Alexander failed to disclose is the fact that he left "no less than one quarter of his forces behind under one of Philip's most tried generals when he set out for Asia!"]

Turkey and the Armenian Genocide 2


Turkey and the Armenian Genocide 3


Turkey and the Armenian Genocide 4

From the moment Alexander passed away. Countless individuals, sect’s countries have tried to lay claim to his empire and his legacy. This is not a new phenomenon. This very thing led to the eventual and speedy dissolution of what was his empire due to the infighting from his generals and who would fight to be Alexander’s successor and claim to be the rightouse owners of the empire.

Even in Quran of the Muslim people claims that Alexander was Muslim… 10 century’s before Mohamed was even put on this earth.
---Sura XVIII, 83/82-98
---"zol qarnayn"
Or how about the claim that Alexander the great was really Albanian….
[link to www.greenspun.com]

Just a few questions to ask yourselves about Alexander the man and his legacy..
1. What religion did Alexander practice?
“Answer” He was an idolater and believes in the 12 gods of Mt Olympus and classical Greece.
2. While growing up who where his mentors and teachers?
“Answer” Greek philosophers and Professors.
3. What where the names of Alexander’s parents.
“Answer” Phillip and Olympia. Classical Greek names with his mothers representing the name of the mountain home of the Greek gods.
4. What where the names of Alexander’s grandparents and great grandparents.
“Answer” Thessalonice , Cassandra, Antipater, Amyntas… All classical Greek names used for centuries before the birth of Alexander.
5. On Pre Alexander coins from the Macedonian region what was written on them
“Answer” Ancient Greek
6. On Coins minted during and after Alexander the great what was written on them
7. “Answer” Ancient Greek
8. While in the In India on the Hyphasis River the eastern edge of his empire what did he build?
“Answer” Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods of Greece.
9. When building the Great library in Alexandria Eqypt what where the architectural inspirations.
“Answer” Classical Greek architecture. Example “the Parthenon”
10. What language, culture and mythology did Alexander and his troops spread across his empire.
“Answer” Ancient Greek, Ancient Greek Philosophy and ancient Greek mythology.
11. Did the pre Alexander Macedonians Participate in the ancient Olympic Games.
“Answer” YES.
12. Who was allowed to compete in the Olympics.
“Answer” Representatives of Greek city states. Foreigners where allowed to compete as individuals.
13. How did the Macedonians compete at the Olympics.
“Answer” As representative of the Macedonian city state.

14. What where the politics of the Ancient Olympics

“Answer” Power in ancient Greece became centered around the city state in the 8th century BC. The city-state was a population center that became organized into a self-contained political entity. These city-states often lived in close proximity to each other, which created competition for limited resources. Though conflict between the city-states was ubiquitous, it was also in their self-interest to engage in trade, military alliances and cultural interaction.[ The city-states had a dichotomous relationship with each other, on one hand they relied on their neighbors for political and military alliances, on the other they competed fiercely with those same neighbors for the resources necessary to sustain life. The Olympic Games were established in this political context. Representatives of the city-states would compete against each other at the Games

Why would Alexander spread Greek culture, language and religion if he were not Greek. This would be the equivalent of claiming Mohamed did not spread the Arabic culture, language and religion. Or that the Spanish did not spread its culture, language and religion in south America….

Here is another way to look at it…… If Alexander wasn’t Greek then Mohamed wasn’t Arab and if Mohamed wasn’t Arab then the queen of Spain wasn’t Spanish…..

genetics now puts the ancestors of today's Macedonians in and around Macedonia for between 15,000 to 4,000 years.

greece's main argument -- that hordes of slavs invaded only in 600 ad -- is lost

go read my genetic posts again -- they all have sources

greece's main argument is lost

I asked the same question in another post.

We didnt make the studies on the slavic people. Go find the bibliography and see who wrote about it.
So its not our argument, it is several scolar's studies that say this.

As for the genetics, who did the test, under what laboratory conditions (and with what samples) and what are their credentials?

But do you think that when the slavs came down, the local populations just poofed in the air?
It is like saying that when the romans conquered the world (nearly all the known back then) made all the local populations to vanish and only romans live there from then on. It is just silly.

Last Edited by Ostria on 04/02/2010 04:29 PM

He spread Hellenistic culture; that is the diference.
Like in our time there is distinct difference between Western/Euro culture and Asian culture....
There is no Euro nation/state or Asian nation/state but in general there is more similarity in France and Germany than France and Cambodia or Germany and Thailand...

Hellenistic culture is one of origins of Euro culture, but helenistic Greek nation is extinct nation like Etruscan
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

It became hellenistic AFTER his death. It was the turn of the Roman empire to rise. This happens all the time. Empires rise and fall. It doesnt mean that they get extinct, they just lose their power.

so there is Etruscans runing on streets of Rome speaking Etruscan, just now?
nations do get extinct.. like astec, mayans.. of course there are Descendant but due to rape and missionary position there is no 100% pure etnic nation.

Contemporary Greeks are Greeks like contemporary Macedonians are Macedonians....it is nation perogative to call them self whatever they choose...
Live and let live.
Alexander the Great aka Aleksandar Veliki and Hellenistic legacy is for all humans not only for contemporary Greek nation

thing with Alxander the Great is like Nikola Tesla story, a Serb born in Croatia, greatest work accomplished in USofA ...for all humankind

Genetics is not an argument. A Culture and civilition cant be measured in Genetics.

Genetics can not tell you the clothes they where wearing, the launguage they spoke, the god(s) they worshipped the building they built what the learned how they learned, What they considered art and what sort of traditions they had....

Did this come about because of panhellenism ?

I dont know if there are still etruscans in Italy, ask an italian to tell you. Probably some family trees go back to them, why not?

But for us it is the same. We kept our civilization the best we could under difficult times. We kept our language and traditions, we only changed our religion and this wasnt done easily.
And not only Alexander or the hellenistic legacy is for all humans, but also all of the Greek heritage, but it doesnt mean that we have to forget the source.

No he spread greek culture... Hellinism by definition is the culture that was created post Alexander it took over 300 years to devolop after his death and actually was the cornerstone of the Roman empire and lasted historicly until antiquity. Then from that point on it became the Roman culture empire.. The old becomes new at this point...

what exactly do you mean?

Panhellenism is the idea that all city-states or kingdoms of the Greeks share bonds and the same culture and they join when there is an external danger.
When there is not such a danger they usually quarrel and made war to each other. (And this keeps on to this day).

I was useing that word as a means to signify the unity of goverments; NWO

Croatian war crimes


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Conquering the civilised world

So to speak.

oh, I've heard some claiming that Alexander is the father of globalization but I think it is a bs claim. Like there werent empires spreading before him and after him as well.

As far as I've seen a lot of "turks" look greek to me. And quite few joined ranks with Alexander

Turks at the time of Alexander?


And there were a lot of greeks living in anatolia in the ancient times (and just a few today), the Ionian cities are well-known and still are tourist attractions.

Alexander the Great was NOT a SouthSlav [Yugoslav] he was a Macedonian Greek just like Leonidas was a Spartan Greek and just like Pericles was an Athenian Greek.

The ex-Yugoslav statelet [FYRoM] naming itself "Macedonia" is academically and geographically incorrect, not only is it problematic it is also very confusing because those people who are ignorant of ancient European history could easily and mistakenly confuse modern day ex-Yugoslavs to Macedonian Greeks, who are the rightfull heirs and inheritor's of those ancient Greek Macedonians.

Modern day Greece has recognised historic rights over the ancient region of Macedonia which [geographically] is located entirely within the border's of modern day Greece.

FYRoM [ex-Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia] has no historic rights to the "Macedonian" name. In ancient times that part of ancient Europe was in fact named Paeonia, so if modern day ex-Yugoslavs want to be precise and correct about choosing the correct name for themselves, it would have to be Paeonia, this would be consistant and compatible with world academia [The World Body of Knowledge].

[link to macedonia-evidence.org]
362 International Scholar's of Repute Endorse and Support a Greek Hellenic Identity for Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians.

Ignorance is Bliss.....untill one gets educated
to recognized Accredited Academic standards.

FYRoM naming itself "Macedonia" is academically and geographically incorrect incompatible and inconsistant with recorded and established ancient European history.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs wanting to establish a link back to antiquity, using the "amalgamation" theory or the "Slavicization" theory are better off using the "Paeonia" name to describe their language ethnicity and nationality.

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