I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.

OP Your mixing up the Old Testament with the New. The old testament becomes clearer after you understand the New Testament. The Old Testaments ways didn't work due to mans heart being so dark and selfish. So God baptised\cleansed\flooded the word of the sin. He washed it all away, leaving a righteous family. Now he will gift you with the holy spirit which will give you the faith you lack. He knows your heart so don't fake it. He sees right through you so unless your truely seeking him, dont bother


PS - If your sincere, Buckle UP - The Mindbending revelations of the bible provided by the holy spirit are about to begin!

If you want a little help in understanding the bible, PM me and ill show you a video series that point out the basics - This invitation is open to all who want it...

Last Edited by McMiller on 11/19/2012 10:27 AM

Asking Christians to respond and then calling it "word vomit" means this is all just flame bait. If you want to be taken seriously, act like it.

You have to decide how facts are determined to your satisfaction, before anyone can even respond to your demands.

Then you have to ask yourself why your Creator should do magic tricks for your personal entertainment, after He already became one of us and rose from the dead. So sorry you weren't there, but if you refuse to accept eyewitness testimony, then let's just do away with the court system and any attempt to get justice if nobody saw the crime. And hope that never happens to you.

If you only knew the truth you would be begging others to come to the Lord.

First off, many Christians do not know the whole plan of God and will miss the mark, even taking the mark out of ignorance.
Amos 8:11 has been fulfilled. That is one of many prophesies happening today.

Many guess like you say about how the Word should be interpreted. Many Christians think it is okay to interpret the Word the way they have been taught by some church system.
But the Word confirms itself without anyone interpreting it in what they think it should be interpreted.
The "formula" is 2 Cor. 13:1.
The book of Revie for an example has 278 verse's that confirm the meaning of many of the symbolics in the book. Yet we see tons of people telling us what they think it all means.

Here is the skinny on what you don't know and to be honest I will get a rebuttal by the unlearned Christians on what I am about to say.

We have two bodies, a inner spiritual body and an outer flesh body.
The "spiritual" body is very very old, ancient, millions and millions of years old.

We are here on this earth to make one choice, to love our creator, "God" or to love Satan, the evil one that tried to take the creators thrown. (Note: you were there just like the rest of us when that event happened. God removed the memory of that event from your mind so you can make up your own choice to love God or Satan.)

Our flesh is weak; our God has rules, laws that have not changed from the creation of our spiritual bodies. We in the flesh body on earth cannot keep those laws do to the fact that God gave us free will, yet Satan "that prince of the air (((air meaning spirit) does all he can to break you to take you away from God.) After all, He took 1/3 of the angels, those stars, which are us, and they loved Satan.
They are being born today on this earth and that is why the earth will get worse and worse as time goes on; yet time is running out.

I am "little star" from the beginning I was "little star", Job 38:7 and yet all of us are called Stars that sang in the beginning loving God, and loving each other.

One third followed Satan at that time long ago, and one third did not care at all one way or another. One third stood with God and loved God.
That is why we read in the book of Zechariah 13:8 and 9 those being judged there when everyone thing is said and done in Gods over all plan. The same one third will follow Satan, when he comes here defacto on earth in the hour of temptation, and one third will not give a hoot one way or another. And only the elect will make it through the "hour of temptation".

Yes, you were my brother and sisters from the beginning. So in this flesh life you have free will to make your choice, love God, or love Satan.

Many Christians will stumble at what I have just said, and I am sure if you are one of those 2/3's you might stumble also, even tho, I spoke truth.

IN Gen. 1:28 God said "replenish" the earth. Yep, replenish to make a choice.
All shall die of the flesh body. But all, I mean all, the good, the bad and the ugly shall return to God who created your inner spiritual body.
Ecclesiastes chapter 12: verse's 6 and 7. That inner spiritual body is substance and it never grows old, nor gets sick. But the flesh body does because gives us time on earth to make our choice. Even a child in its mothers womb and dies has fulfilled Gods decree , His plan, which came about because of the 1/3 that loved God and asked Him to do this for the sake of the 2/3 that did not stay with God. So you are here by that decree, that order, to make up your mind.

And since none of us can keep the "laws" because our flesh is weak, it took the Son of God, that is Christ to save us, even the 1/3 has had their mind wiped clean from the time that we were with God, because God is totally fair. The 1/3 has been born down through the generations, just like the 2/3's that went against God.

Those who are first will be last, and those who are last shall be first. (Speaking of those that are willing to do Gods plan for the last generation.)

There are many prophecies happening all around you, but since Satan loves to blind many, and so does God blind many as spoken of in Isaiah 66:4 and Romans 11:8, that spirit of slumber. Why?

Because God does not want to destroy any of His children, and that is why we have the millennium 1000 years of Christ ruling the earth so we that remain with God can help those that do not know the real truth , learn that truth, and come to God.
Yet it is very sad to say, that the same 2/3's many of them, will not make it. There will be a few from the 2/3's that will see the light of all of this.

So yes, it is worth saving one more soul, spiritual body so we all can rejoice and love each other without fear or evil in our hearts.
That is why you are here on earth. That is why we are born of a woman's womb, not like Gen. chapter 6 those Naphal fallen angels that side stepped Gods plan and came down directly from their first habitation first estate (Jude 6) and came down to seduce woman, to make hybrids to try and destroy the blood line of Christ right up to Virgin Mary.

The bible has all of this in it. Yet I know I will be blasted by those that suck on the "traditions of mens church system that makes void the Word of God."

And if any of you Christians do not understand that, look up the word "traditions" and you will find where I pulled even that from scripture.

So, this is the basics, I cannot tell you everything in one posting.

Job 38:7, is you my family from the beginning. We are the stars, just like Christ is called "The morning Star" meaning the first. Even the symbolics in the Word are written with clearity without interpretation by any of us.
But man likes to use self to do the interpretations so they can be used by Satan to deceive. AFter all, 1/3 stood with Satan.

So, question.
What third are you? The 1/3 that stood with God, the one third that did not give a hoot, or the one third that loved Satan.
You do not need to answer that question.

You now have no excuse to tell God on judgement day that you were not told the truth.
Blessings to all.

I am sure I will be shot down by many Christians because of their traditions that are taught in their denomination.
Denomination means "separation", divide, and etc.

I believe that God makes his presence known still today. I think that technology and modern day society has taken us to the point where the vast majority say "there has to be a reasonable explanation" People dismiss miracles as something else.

I feel God in my life very much and I know when I start slipping because that feeling will start to be less noticeable.

I myself have witnessed many miracles, I don't dismiss them as "there must be a reasonable explanation" to me Miracle IS the reasonable explanation.

So he sent his Son as a final absolution...okay, that was 1980 years ago. Up til then, we had a great flood, exodus from Egypt, sun staying out for three days, hands writing on walls, miracle healings, and general Godly things going on in a world that was still millenia from the end times. Simply put, if a human like me with his finger in his nose sees a glaring contradiction with that, then God should see it.

Like i mentioned earlier, God made us inquisitive. We are virtually made to question things but we cant dare question why if we are also his people we arent allowed to see his grand works like our fore fathers?

Seems the good works would be saved for the billions of lost people rather than a few thousand lost souls. One little bone seems like an easy thing to ask.

Perhaps its selfish to want proof but is it any more selfish to want people to blindly follow your word when no proof is offered? Im supposed to give up my whole life and dedicate it to a being who wont even allow me to see some grand work with my own eyes?

Read my post. Let us see who you truly are within the group of thirds that I mentioned.

Within the stories are hidden manna in the old testie.
Christ told us He was the manna sent from "heaven". And if we eat of that manna, we shall live forever. John chapter 6:48 to 51.
Christ tells us "all things". Mark 13:23

I hate to bust your bubble but when GOD SAID "LET THERE BE LIGHT" uhhh BOOM!!!! I just don't believe the theories of the "Big Bang" by those who teach SCIENCE FALSELY SO CALLED.
Oh, when comparing other cultures you really need to have studied the bible often to see the PATTERN. I think it comes to you after you have read the word of GOD from Revelation to Genesis (backwards). I think thats it. Keep reading and keep praying, it's there for you. PEACE.

Im not flaming anybody here purposefully.

And this isnt some benign issue like some court case. Apples and oranges friend.

My decision on this has consequences far dire than some jail time. Depending on it, my vert SOUL is in jeapordy for the rest of time.

Think of that. No other thing you decide in your entire life has consequences like that. Personally, if Im betting my soul, I'd like some more proof besides books written two thousand years ago by people who werent even there at the time. Then, I gotta make the decision as to these people, who witnessed none of these things, were on shrooms, tryina sell a book, or really were being spoken to by God.

If they were, than why are there only certain books in the Bible and others such as Moses, left out? We dont even have all of the info we need and yet we must just follow. Come on.

i responded to your post because i thought that you wanted to have an honest and open dialogue about these things. if you just want to bash christianity then go ahead but dont do it under the pretense that you are interested in the facts.

you are wildly wrong about what the Bible says. It does say that his people will preform miracles. Jesus said that he would give us the power to do so. see (John 14:12-13 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask[c] anything in My name, I will do it.)

Also Joel says that in the last days God is going to pour out his spirit on all flesh see (Joel 2:28 "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions.")

I could go on.

If you want to have an honest convo about what i believe and why i will. if you just want to be a shill then i am out.

I am happy to share about the amzing things God has done in my life and those around me if you sicerely want to hear

I have a Math book that states 2+2=10. You know thats not correct and say something about it. So I refer you to the chapter where it says it, and you still dont believe, right?

This isnt a discussion on if the Bible is true or not. Noone truly knows. So taking words out of that book and reporting them as facts that actually prove the book is as redundant as me showing you the above math book.

I kind of agree with you, OP! (although I'm a Christian who does believe in the whole 9 yards of it) I think to myself, so many people around me would have a chance to believe in God if only they could see some of the type of stuff that actually transpired in the Bible -- miracles and so forth like you've described above. Well I also read certain prophecies that lead me to believe YOU WILL GET YOUR WISH!

I truly believe God WILL intervene in THIS generation -- not in a subtle way, but in a DIRECT and OBVIOUS way!

My caution to you is this. If He does so, then it carries a greater responsibility on our part to respond to that. We can no longer plead ignorance. Also be aware he will STILL be rejecte by many because they won't want to change their lives.

Anyway, get ready for it, I think it happens sooner rather than later. Thanks for starting the thread!

Faith is daring the soul to go beyond what the eyes can see. - William Newton Clark

The reward of Faith? Getting to see with the soul what you have dared it to believe.

This response will absolutely get me deemed as crazy (not that I really care) but I will spill it.

I have lived a rough life- really rough.
I was raised in a Christian home and I proclaimed to be one as well, but that is all I was doing. My entire life the inexpiable happened.

I was so mean to my younger sister when I was young. One day I stood at the bus stop and in the clouds there were messages, the clouds formed into words "LOVE" "KINDNESS" Picture of Jesus and a picture of my sister and I. That was my first real sign from God.

When I was really little I had a dream, that dream has left a lasting impression on me. It was the return of Christ and my family and all the animals joined in a circle outside, we all glowed with a golden glow and a single monarch butterfly landed on us one at a time as we ascended into Heaven.

I used to ask God for the things I wanted to happen and also thought, why can he not answer a simple prayer. In my mid 20's something came up in my life. Something HUGE. I had finally had taken enough I couldn't handle it anymore. I dropped to my knees unaware of who was there and screamed at the top of my lungs "It is in your hands, Lord, Whatever your will for me, I accept it" I meant it more than any other time I had ever spoken to him. The outcome- NOT what I would have prayed for, not what I would have wanted. It was my test, I accepted it. I haven't asked why because I will know in due time. But I accepted it, His Will. It isn't that he doesn't answer our prayers, sometimes prayers that seem unanswered really aren't unanswered.

In 2009 I found out my youngest would be born with sever disabilities. I was told (begged) to abort him. I declined. I was even offered it well beyond the legal gestation in the state of VA. I was told my son would have a poor quality of life, he could have mental retardation, he would likely never walk or be able to control his bowel or bladder. I was told his condition would consume my life. My son (who is now 3 1/2) Walks, talks, lives as a normal child. Now, we do have things that we have to deal with but as far as not being normal, you'd NEVER know it, NEVER. He IS a miracle.

I could go on and on with the things that have happened in my life. God is very real OP and I pray that he enters your heart so that you can have the feeling of overwhelming inexplicable Joy and Love that I feel.

Have you ever had a near death experience?

Until you do, and when you see your spiritual body stepping out of the flesh body, then your 2+2 = 10 will not matter.

Blessings and peace!
Have a great ride through your short life and keep pondering.

This is the part where you are just plain wrong. There is a way out, but sometimes looking harder isn't the thing you need to do. The bible is pretty clear; even if god comes down and tells you something one-on-one, there's a good chance you will still fuck up. In the end you have to figure out the 'why', not the 'what' or 'who' for yourself for it to stick.

Once you get the 'why' the rest just drops into place.

The church did not publish all the translations from the original Hebrew texts. 12 disciples and 4 books in the Bible given to us. Hmmm. Guess man thought it wasn't necessary for us to know. Last i heard, Jesus was the last 1st hand info we had. 1 Book, the apocalypse of Peter is 1 should read.

You do not see because you have blinded yourself. If you can not see the wonder and power of God all around you, with every newborn baby, with each sunrise, with the infinite complexities of the universe, then what good would another "sign" do? It would not matter. You would still manage to explain it away or simply refuse to see because you have made your choice.

Choose to believe or don't. It doesn't change the reality of God or his designs. Who are you to demand more from an infinte God anyway? Little you who lives only a few years and then turns back to dust. Arrogance and rebellion have blinded you. It is not for lack of proof that you do not believe, but lack of acceptance of who God is and your place in His creation.

Whether you intended to flame or not, you did it.

And no, it's not "apples and oranges". My point was that IF you accept eyewitness testimony at all, for any reason, THEN you have no reason at all to reject the recorded testimony of eyewitnesses to the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Who else would be expected to care in the first century? The Romans? The Greeks? They wrote what was important to them, not what happened among their conquered peoples. This is hardly a "benign issue"; it's a matter of principle, of how exactly YOU determine whether something happened or not that you personally did not witness.

Yes, the consequences are dire, but very much "legal" in nature. The Bible (which you must expect Christians to quote!), says that if we put our trust in Jesus we are "not condemned" and if we don't, we are "condemned already". Those are LEGAL terms.

But you still demand proof without saying how you decide what constitutes proof. You believe everything you see? Hear? Touch? And you're in a conspiracy forum?

Come on.

What a great witness you are.
Proof of putting your total trust in the Lord!

Blessings and much love in Christ, my sister from the beginning.....

I wouldnt waste my time trolling on this topic. Lemme hit you wit some truth from your own book sir:

2 Peter 3:16
" The untaught and unstable twist scripture to their own destruction"

Some replies have been "twisted" to mean something they dont. You cant pick and choose certain passages to relay your information because many are taken out of the overall context of the chapter as a whole.

When Jesus gave his Sermon on the Mount He states:
" Ask, and it will be given to you. For everyone asks, recieves and he who seeks, finds"

Ive been seeking for years. Ive obviously got a decent handle on the Bible and have prayed and prayed on just this topic for over a decade. As of yet, no reply, no holy spirit, nothing at all. Ive asked, and not recieved anything at all. Nada.

Mathew 12:39:
"An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign, and yet no sign will be given"

How contradicting to what Jesus states on the Mount huh? Ive asked, Ive prayed, Ive even posted here asking, and yet I already know according to the above scripture it wont be given.

If Jesus is our God...or the only way to God, why does He say one thing, and yet God does another?


I KNOW faith healers are chided in the bible. I KNOW it says this somewhere, but when I tried to find the exact passages from Christian websites, they just dance around it and offer no books where the exact info can be found.

Healing by anyone but GOD is Evil after God resurrected Jesus and the New Covenant was made. Besides, I assume if your friend actually healed anyone in any mud hut tribe, why not make it big news himself and call for people to come to him and be healed? Common sense goes a long way buddy.

The fundamental problem with your question is that you are asking Christians for real answers; and they (corporately), cannot give you real answers, for they have NO clue.....and no real answers....

The next question from "them" will be; ok, smartass, "do you"?

And the short answer, for today, is yes.....First, Jesus did not teach a "Doctrine of resurrection", he taught a Doctrine of "rebirth" (not reincarnation, don't confuse the two)..

Start here.....

No, the fundamental problem is that he's asking Christians about their faith while also forbidding them to use their sacred text.

And what's funny is you declaring with authority what Jesus did or did not declare after telling Christians they have no clue.

I've said this on here before...

Christians say they believe without proof. They have faith.

But they use their bible as testimonial evidence.

So that means, by definition, they do not have faith. Rather, they just find the testimonial evidence of the bible to be credible.

Why do they find the bible to be credible? Because people they found credible... their parents basically... told them it was credible. Credibility can be conferred from one credible person or thing to another.

This is why people generally have the same faith as their parents.

Faith in Jesus being the son of God is what faith is.

i appreciate the respones.

i see you have doubts but something keeps drawing you to this subject.

you are right in the there are people who twist scripture to suit thier own fancy or pet doctrines.

the Word does not contridict itself. my goal is not to win a debate with you on this thread.

for the sake of conversation...the scrpitures you used in context (which i am assuming you desire to do because you just stated the importance of using scripture in context) jesus was talking about the jews who had The Sign! He was a sign and and he was doing amazing things and they still did not believe.

go back and re-read that whole passage you just used in matthew 12:38. read the next couple of verses

jesus was basically telling them...look, who want me to give you a miracle on demand...no i will not. your sign will come when i rise from the dead after three days just as jonah came up from the whale after three days. that will be your sign to this evil generation.

context is key.....these men hated jesus they did not WANT to believe they were looking for a way to rebuff jesus.

perhaps you have not seen you sign because you are doing what the pharasees did. you have your sign but will you choose to recognize it?

thats up to you bro....peace out.

thanks for the good convo

I'm not gonna quote scripture. It has nothing to do with religion at ALL. You don't beleive however if you were to humble yourself and ask Jesus to reveal it to you he will.
Supernaturally. It's spiritual So if you ask in your privacy I will accept you Jesus as my savior if you are who you say you are, come into my heart. He will literally reveal himself to you.

People are only just beginning to see that there's Jesus in you and me .

In this period of time (time of the Gentiles started in 70AD) that method of gathering is through faith without proof. For those that want proof they will have to wait until the trumps begin to unfold.

Joh:20:29:
Jesus saith unto him,
Thomas,
because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed:
blessed are they that have not seen,
and yet have believed.

If you take the exit from the Garden date and add 1 zero for each day of creation you go from 4,000BC to 4,000,000,000BC as being the end of day 1, add 1 more Zero and that should put you at the beginning of day 1 which would be the start of the creation of Heaven (our universe)as starting at 40B and that is when the material that makes up the big bang (likely 2 black holes merging no so gently) about 14B years ago making our sun a 3rd or 4th generation star as it is only 4B years old.

I renewed my home owners insurance today...actually gave my earnest to them so I could have some coverage in case of a fire.

Yet This thread has me thinking just because there is some written policy words of what they offer and have to cover me...and what it is that I paid for.

How am I to have proof they actually have anything like they say...or that "IT"....what I paid for is really real.

I think I would have to burn down my house to see that insurance I bought...into.


Or I could just keep my real hard earned money and let their invisible commodity be peddled to others.

Sound a whole lot better than burning down the house to see if that coverage is there.....they have never showed me the brief case of 200,000 smack a roos they have just for me if that house burns down....they never showed it to me nor give me the place it is safely locked up and held for me at....so I can go and check on it from time to time to make sure it is still there..

So it is worth nothing to me..to pay for anything they can not prove to me is there and mine.

I am a risky gnat gambler.....or I am just a hater of Insurance sellers and their insurance I came here to sling mud on and at like a dog gnawing a bone.

The Hebrews coming out of Egypt heard, saw, and recieved many things directly from God but still did not have the faith to trust that He would remove the giants and nephilim from the promised land when He told them to go there. To make matters worse they couldn't go 40 days alone without bringing heathen lesser gods (fallen angels) into the picture for worship. Sounds like a pretty sad state of affairs.

God wants to know if we have some backbone to stand with Him on His Word to stand up for what is righteous and true. Backbone gets the job done, and He strengthens those that have faith and seek truth in the little book being careful not to get caught up in the traditions of men.

There is some predestination going on the bible too. I won't touch more on that now, but know that God reserved the very worst and the very best souls for the end times. He is going to make everything right and will reward those that make a stand with Him on faith.

well...something happened..they nailed Him to a cross...that affected everything..the balance..

it opened a door of freedom for us..but the act itself locked the prison cell doors tight shut..so that the only way out would be the door He showed but which is hidden unless one really "sees" and when one "sees" one still has to manage to get through it..

It affected everything..awful