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For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 38537724  Slovakia05/27/2013 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Oh really? Then please explain these scriptures to me? Luke 21:25-28 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Anything about being taken away to heaven there, I cannot see? |
Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539  United States05/27/2013 01:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Good question. And who is this person to judge that anyone who disagrees with them on prophecy is sinning and needs to repent? I've seen some pretty wild slander flung against pre-tribbers, blaming us for wanting to support the Antichrist, when in fact it's the ones who want to go through the Trib. who would be most likely to do so. And now we have someone telling us to repent! Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 38537724 Slovakia05/27/2013 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The church did not begin until Pentecost. His disciples didn't even understand that he had to be killed and rise from the dead, much less that some entity that was both Jew and Gentile would be created. Nobody before Paul used the term "Body of Christ" or "Bride of Christ". Paul made it clear that the church was a "mystery" that had been hidden until then. Again, Paul was NOT more knowledgable than Christ. Repent What does that have to do with anything? Jesus never taught about some escape from Earth before tribulation. Actually most of you would not be raptured anyway, because you stay further unrepentant pagans. Truth. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40260170 United States05/27/2013 01:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP I am not trying to troll you or make you angry. I use to be be Pre-Trib at one time myself.....and only want to put out warnings to people. Satan's wrath has been going on a long time. All of the disiples were martyred.......and Christians even now are being killed for their faith. If you see the 3rd Seal in your lifetime......a day's wages for a loaf of bread......you will know that Pre-Trib position is not correct. You will have about six months or so to do as Christ instructed.......flee to the wilderness. The 5th Seal will involve a great persecution worldwide. God would not instruct people to flee into the wilderness only to have them starve there. He will take care of you in a supernatural manner.......just as He did with Israel when they fled Egypt. Mt 24: 16 Psalm 27: 5 Psalm 31: 20 Psalm 34: 7 Psalm 91 |
| Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539 United States05/27/2013 01:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Jesus never taught about some escape from Earth before tribulation. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38537724 Actually most of you would not be raptured anyway, because you stay further unrepentant pagans. Truth. I already explained why Jesus didn't talk about the rapture. It would have been incomprehensible to the disciples before the cross and Pentecost. You are not our judge either. Go away. Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
| Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539 United States05/27/2013 01:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170 I am not trying to troll you or make you angry. I use to be be Pre-Trib at one time myself.....and only want to put out warnings to people. This is frustration, not anger... yet. I keep asking you to read what I've already written about the things you keep repeating, and you just keep going on like I've said nothing. And whether you are aware of it or not, it's condescending to tell someone that what they believe is something that requires "warnings", or that because you used to believe what they did, that somehow you moved up and not down. IMHO, you've only moved sideways at best. The arguments against pre-trib are full of straw men, ad hominem, and many other fallacies, and it takes little effort to see how people hate and slander us here. The fact is that anything but the pre-trib position looks for the Antichrist rather than the real Christ, and is primed to support and bring about the one-world government. They are so proud and confident of their ability to withstand the wrath of God, which sets them up for utter failure if they're right... because they don't seem to realize just how much worse is the wrath of God than what the world has always suffered. As you said, "Satan's wrath has been going on a long time. All of the disiples were martyred.......and Christians even now are being killed for their faith." Yes! So we the church have already been tested and suffered the wrath of man and Satan. We are NOT to suffer the wrath of God. You will have about six months or so to do as Christ instructed.......flee to the wilderness. Quoting: youNO. This is for the residents of Jerusalem only. Read that passage very carefully and you'll see that it pertains to the faithful Jews who see the Abomination and are to flee to "the place prepared for them". We are not the Jews; we do not live in Jerusalem or Judea; we are not concerned with travel restrictions on the Sabbath (remember Jesus mentioned that they should pray that they don't have to flee on that day). We are NOT Israel. Now why do you keep going on about the sequence of events when we've been over this so many times already? That is trolling, whether or not you recognize it or intend it. Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 32885654 United States05/27/2013 01:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Oh really? Then please explain these scriptures to me? Luke 21:25-28 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Anything about being taken away to heaven there, I cannot see? You are not alone - Neither did five of the ten virgins and look where it got them. How any sensible believer can believe that the bridegroom (Jesus) would let his bride first get the living HELL beat out of her (trib) and than Rapture her up and take her to a banquet is beyond me. OP- you are fighting a lost cause. Know matter how much proof you show them from the scriptures they will not believe. I hope you all enjoy the tribulation... I have a wedding engagement with a King! :peace7: |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 32885654 United States05/27/2013 01:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Keep2theCode The church did not begin until Pentecost. His disciples didn't even understand that he had to be killed and rise from the dead, much less that some entity that was both Jew and Gentile would be created. Nobody before Paul used the term "Body of Christ" or "Bride of Christ". Paul made it clear that the church was a "mystery" that had been hidden until then. Again, Paul was NOT more knowledgable than Christ. Repent What does that have to do with anything? Jesus never taught about some escape from Earth before tribulation. Actually most of you would not be raptured anyway, because you stay further unrepentant pagans. Truth. See ya!!! :rapture01: |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40260170 United States05/27/2013 01:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 5th Seal......God's wrath ??????? When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" And a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. |
| Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539 United States05/27/2013 01:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You are not alone - Neither did five of the ten virgins and look where it got them. Quoting: Troubled Waters... How any sensible believer can believe that the bridegroom (Jesus) would let his bride first get the living HELL beat out of her (trib) and than Rapture her up and take her to a banquet is beyond me. OP- you are fighting a lost cause. Know matter how much proof you show them from the scriptures they will not believe. I hope you all enjoy the tribulation... I have a wedding engagement with a King! :peace7: Thank you, TW. Yes, it's futile, but I had hoped to avoid that by setting up the thread as not a debate club but simply to state what I believe and why. There appears to be such a blind hatred of pre-trib that people just can't allow it to be stated, much less defended. But a good point about Jesus beating his own Bride/Body. They try to get around it by claiming that only the bowls, or the bowls and trumpets, or whatever is "the wrath of God" so they can excuse the beating as not being from Jesus. Yet it is Jesus who opens the seals, and the angels who order the horses to go forth. For us, we do indeed wait for our Groom, who will not abuse us. But I wonder what he will do with those who abused his Bride for daring to wait for him instead of his enemy. Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
| Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539 United States05/27/2013 01:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 5th Seal......God's wrath ??????? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" And a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. People will get saved during the Tribulation, and they are called 'saints'. They are NOT the Body/Bride of Christ or the church. Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 32885654 United States05/27/2013 01:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You are not alone - Neither did five of the ten virgins and look where it got them. Quoting: Troubled Waters... How any sensible believer can believe that the bridegroom (Jesus) would let his bride first get the living HELL beat out of her (trib) and than Rapture her up and take her to a banquet is beyond me. OP- you are fighting a lost cause. Know matter how much proof you show them from the scriptures they will not believe. I hope you all enjoy the tribulation... I have a wedding engagement with a King! :peace7: Thank you, TW. Yes, it's futile, but I had hoped to avoid that by setting up the thread as not a debate club but simply to state what I believe and why. There appears to be such a blind hatred of pre-trib that people just can't allow it to be stated, much less defended. But a good point about Jesus beating his own Bride/Body. They try to get around it by claiming that only the bowls, or the bowls and trumpets, or whatever is "the wrath of God" so they can excuse the beating as not being from Jesus. Yet it is Jesus who opens the seals, and the angels who order the horses to go forth. For us, we do indeed wait for our Groom, who will not abuse us. But I wonder what he will do with those who abused his Bride for daring to wait for him instead of his enemy. :FlowersSmilie: |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40260170 United States05/27/2013 01:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 5th Seal......God's wrath ??????? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" And a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. People will get saved during the Tribulation, and they are called 'saints'. They are NOT the Body/Bride of Christ or the church. When the man of evil shows up......God will send a strong delusion upon the world......so that those who have lived a life of rebellion against Him......will be turned over to their unbelief. The door to salvation will be closed. There will be new people saved in Christ......no new "tribulation saints." "And then the lawless one will be revealed,,,,,,, "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, "that they ALL may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." |
| Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539 United States05/27/2013 02:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When the man of evil shows up......God will send a strong delusion upon the world......so that those who have lived a life of rebellion against Him......will be turned over to their unbelief. The door to salvation will be closed. There will be new people saved in Christ......no new "tribulation saints." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170 "And then the lawless one will be revealed,,,,,,, "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, "that they ALL may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." You have no basis upon which to say that the door of salvation will be closed. Of what purpose would be the ministry of the two witnesses? Or the 144,000? And who are the martyrs under the altar, or the huge crowd that "come out of the great tribulation"? And who will still be in their mortal bodies to repopulate the world during the Millennium? Who is it that runs to the desert to be kept safe for 3.5 years? Lost people? Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 32885654 United States05/27/2013 02:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, this is my own personal belief. I don't think that all believers will get Raptured - example the 10 virgins. All 10 were believers, but only 5 were actually watching for the bridegroom with oil in their lamps. The 5 that were waiting, watching, and spiritually ready (oil) were the bride (church), and went to the bridal chambers to be with the Lord. The other five, called saints/elect in the book of revelation will have to endure the trib, and become martyrs. That is why I believe the church is never mentioned again after John was called up to Heaven. There are the bride = church The saints = Believers (no wedding oil) friends at the wedding banquet. The elect = guest non- Messianic Jews. Just my theory. Love you my sister!  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40260170 United States05/27/2013 02:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When the man of evil shows up......God will send a strong delusion upon the world......so that those who have lived a life of rebellion against Him......will be turned over to their unbelief. The door to salvation will be closed. There will be new people saved in Christ......no new "tribulation saints." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170 "And then the lawless one will be revealed,,,,,,, "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, "that they ALL may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." You have no basis upon which to say that the door of salvation will be closed. Of what purpose would be the ministry of the two witnesses? Or the 144,000? And who are the martyrs under the altar, or the huge crowd that "come out of the great tribulation"? And who will still be in their mortal bodies to repopulate the world during the Millennium? Who is it that runs to the desert to be kept safe for 3.5 years? Lost people? Who am I to tell God what to do......or questions His purpose? Pharoah on several occasions was about to let Israel go.........but because God had hardened his heart......he relented......and would not allow Israel to go. People in the end times will come under God's wrath.....it will be obvious.......stung and tormented for five months.......130 pound hailstones crashing down all about them.......etc. etc. Yet.....they will refuse to repent.....and continue to blaspheme God. |
| Oath User ID: 32436721  Canada05/27/2013 02:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Oh really? Then please explain these scriptures to me? Luke 21:25-28 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Anything about being taken away to heaven there, I cannot see? You are not alone - Neither did five of the ten virgins and look where it got them. How any sensible believer can believe that the bridegroom (Jesus) would let his bride first get the living HELL beat out of her (trib) and than Rapture her up and take her to a banquet is beyond me. OP- you are fighting a lost cause. Know matter how much proof you show them from the scriptures they will not believe. I hope you all enjoy the tribulation... I have a wedding engagement with a King! :peace7: I agree, Christ Jesus would not pour his wrath upon his people. John 3:34-36 King James Version (KJV) "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him." "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand." "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." Romans 1:16-22 King James Version (KJV) "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," |
| Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539 United States05/27/2013 02:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, this is my own personal belief. Quoting: Troubled Waters... I don't think that all believers will get Raptured - example the 10 virgins. All 10 were believers, but only 5 were actually watching for the bridegroom with oil in their lamps. The 5 that were waiting, watching, and spiritually ready (oil) were the bride (church), and went to the bridal chambers to be with the Lord. The other five, called saints/elect in the book of revelation will have to endure the trib, and become martyrs. That is why I believe the church is never mentioned again after John was called up to Heaven. There are the bride = church The saints = Believers (no wedding oil) friends at the wedding banquet. The elect = guest non- Messianic Jews. Just my theory. Love you my sister! That's certainly one possibility, yes. But since the church is the Bride rather than a bridesmaid, I see that parable as referring to the Jews at the end of the Tribulation. Some accept the Messiah by faith and some don't. Either way, there's no downside to waiting eagerly for our Groom. Our "preparation" as believers should always have been to be willing to suffer and die for our Lord, as Christians have had to do all these centuries. So even if we're wrong, we are as prepared as anyone else. But as you know, there is a crown of righteousness promised to "all who have longed for His appearing". Luv ya right back sis! God bless. Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 26130402 United States05/27/2013 02:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 21632332 United States05/27/2013 02:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Word of GOD predicted the pre-trib heresy long ago. Amos 9:10 All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us. Prevent in this verse in Hebrew is Kadam which means. 1) to meet, come or be in front, confront, go before, precede YESHUA/JESUS Prays for His disciples John 17:15 I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil. and for those who will believe their testimony 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. The wicked will be taken first at the end of the age. Matthew 10:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into My barn. 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the Kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 41 The Son of Man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; YESHUA warned His Disciples many would come in His Name, saying that HE was the Messiah and would deceive many... 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; That time is now |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40260170 United States05/27/2013 02:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ************************************* Agreed That is why the 144,000 of Israel are sealed from harm.... and the Gentile Christians are caught up by angels. This does not take place prior to the FIRST SEAL......but rather.... ....takes place just prior to the 7TH SEAL. |
| CELT1 User ID: 1177339 United States05/27/2013 02:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer. To Meet Him IN The Sky... He is there... I can see him as clear as day... I can hear him in my ears as he calls us home... Coming Out of his Dwelling... Where does he dwell he dwells in us all just as written... The Spirit Has No Permanent Home It Dwells for a while to rest then carry on... Then unknowing to the spirit it finds itself at home with thy lord where is his home?... He rest with the Angels ... He rest with Adam... He rest with Eve... He rest with Enoch... He rest with Noah ... He rest with Jacob... He Now Rests With ISRAEL... Just as written... He Rest with Melchizedek Blesses Abraham. “Melchizedek … blessed him and said, 'Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth... He Rest with Samuel... He rest with Moses... He rest with Paul... Just As Written they walked with the Holy Ghost... They were chosen to be the Host Of GOD... The Word HOME... Here On Mans Earth... The House Of GOD... He Now Rests With ISRAEL... I Said Reveal Abbas Eternal Light... Now look in the sky and see... What do you see?... Jesus In The Sky Above You Is Clear To See... As he slashes that whip of justice to those here in the House of GOD... Just As Written... The Word FISH... Father Is Showing Himself... The Main Course with Just One On The Plate... To feed this entire world... True Justice For All... Abbas Living Light... For all to see whether they believe it or not... They will witness it... As they decide if it's The Final Truth Or Not... CELT1 |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 21632332 United States05/27/2013 03:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The valley of Trouble is for a door of Hope, so Look UP, your redemption draws near The Task of the 144,000 > just as Moses was a deliverer and led the Assembly out of Egypt < there will be 144,000 Assemblies Of Mt. Zion in the Greater Exodus. The 144,000 They are upon Mount Zion And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father's Name written in their foreheads. Rev 14:1 They are deliverers And deliverers shall come up on Mount Zion to judge the mount of esau; and The Kingdom shall be YAHUWAH's Obhad~Y~A~H~ 21 They will direct the assemblies in the Greater Exodus And ~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~ will create upon every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and upon her Assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a chuppah.YeshaYahu 4:5 Greater Exodus Therefore, behold, the days come, saith ~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~, that they shall no more say,~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~Lives, which brought up The Children of Yisrael out of the land of Egypt; But,~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~ Lives, which brought up and which led the seed of The House of Yisrael out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. YirmeYahu 23:7-8 When > The Great Tribulation, Jacobs Trouble As a shepherd seeks out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out My sheep, and Will Deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. Yechezqel 34:12 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Yacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. YirmeYahu 30:7 <><><> That which has been is now; and that which is to be has already been; and ~E~L~O~H~I~Y~M~ requires that which is past. Ekklesiastes 3:15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I show unto him Marvelous Things. The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. Mikha 7:15-16 And It shall come to pass in that day, that The ADONAI shall set His Hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Yisrael, and gather together the dispersed of Yahudah from the four corners of the earth. YeshaYahu 11:11-12 ~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~ does build up Yerushalayim : He gathers together The outcasts of Yisrael. Tehillim 147:2 As I Live, saith ADONAI YAHUWAH, surely with a Mighty Hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you: And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a Mighty Hand, and with a Stretched out Arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you Face to face. Yechezqel 20:33-35 Watch you therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before The Son of Man. Luke 21:36 The Woman with the twelve stars/ Tribes of Israel goes into the wilderness And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of ~E~L~O~H~I~Y~M~, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. Revelation 12:6,14 You have seen what I Did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you untoMyself. Shemot 19:4 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of trouble for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. -> Hoshea 2:14-15 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, says the ~A~D~O~N~A~I~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~. Yechezqel 20:36 Moreover, brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that All our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 1 Corinthians 10:1 Just because a believer comes out of the country where they are living in an assembly of Mount Zion in the Greater Exodus, It does not mean they will enter The Land of Yisrael. And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against Me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into The land of Yisrael: and you shall know that I AM ~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~. Yechezqel 20:38 Two Folds will be made One in the day of Yezreel. during Yacob's distress tsarah Then shall the children of Yahudah and the children of Yisrael be gathered together, and appoint themselves One Head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Yezreel. Hoshea 1:11 And other sheep (House of Yisrael) I have, which are not of this fold (House of Yahudah): them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and One Shepherd. Therefore doth My Father Love Me,because I lay down My life, that I might take it again. Yohanan 10:16-17 Paul teaches the Ephesians that they were formerly gentiles, but In Messiah they are Citizens of Yisrael Ephesians 2:11-12 He tells the Galatians that In Messiah they are the Seed of Abraham... Galations 3:29 But thou, Yisrael, art My servant, Yacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham My Friend. YeshaYahu 41:8 1Cr 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. When ~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~ shall build up Tzion, He shall appear in His Glory. Tehillim 102:16, Titus 2:13 And He shall reign over The House of Yacob for ever; and of His Kingdom there shall be no end. Luke 1:33 <><><> Warning to those who believe in a pre-trib rapture All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor precede us. In that day will I raise up the Tabernacle of David that is fallen… Amos 9:10-11 I pray not that Thou should take them out of the world, but that Thou should keep them from the evil…Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; Yohanan 17:15,20 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. Mish'ley 10:30 The First Commandment: Believe in Me ~I~A~M~Y~A~H~U~W~A~H~E~LO~H~E~Y~K~A~ which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Shemot 20:2-3 |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40018660 United States05/27/2013 03:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 32885654 United States05/27/2013 03:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When the man of evil shows up......God will send a strong delusion upon the world......so that those who have lived a life of rebellion against Him......will be turned over to their unbelief. The door to salvation will be closed. There will be new people saved in Christ......no new "tribulation saints." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170 "And then the lawless one will be revealed,,,,,,, "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, "that they ALL may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." You have no basis upon which to say that the door of salvation will be closed. Of what purpose would be the ministry of the two witnesses? Or the 144,000? And who are the martyrs under the altar, or the huge crowd that "come out of the great tribulation"? And who will still be in their mortal bodies to repopulate the world during the Millennium? Who is it that runs to the desert to be kept safe for 3.5 years? Lost people? Who am I to tell God what to do......or questions His purpose? Pharoah on several occasions was about to let Israel go.........but because God had hardened his heart......he relented......and would not allow Israel to go. People in the end times will come under God's wrath.....it will be obvious.......stung and tormented for five months.......130 pound hailstones crashing down all about them.......etc. etc. Yet.....they will refuse to repent.....and continue to blaspheme God. Yes, many people well, but not the true church. The scriptures clearly states... For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Praise the Lord!!! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 32885654 United States05/27/2013 03:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, this is my own personal belief. Quoting: Troubled Waters... I don't think that all believers will get Raptured - example the 10 virgins. All 10 were believers, but only 5 were actually watching for the bridegroom with oil in their lamps. The 5 that were waiting, watching, and spiritually ready (oil) were the bride (church), and went to the bridal chambers to be with the Lord. The other five, called saints/elect in the book of revelation will have to endure the trib, and become martyrs. That is why I believe the church is never mentioned again after John was called up to Heaven. There are the bride = church The saints = Believers (no wedding oil) friends at the wedding banquet. The elect = guest non- Messianic Jews. Just my theory. Love you my sister! That's certainly one possibility, yes. But since the church is the Bride rather than a bridesmaid, I see that parable as referring to the Jews at the end of the Tribulation. Some accept the Messiah by faith and some don't. Either way, there's no downside to waiting eagerly for our Groom. Our "preparation" as believers should always have been to be willing to suffer and die for our Lord, as Christians have had to do all these centuries. So even if we're wrong, we are as prepared as anyone else. But as you know, there is a crown of righteousness promised to "all who have longed for His appearing". Luv ya right back sis! God bless. You mean brother. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40260170 United States05/27/2013 03:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So true......but it is essential to clearly identify where satan's wrath ends......and where God's wrath begins. As with Pharoah's magicians.......God's wrath cannot be duplicated by either satan or man........and is very clearly distinct and evident. |
| CELT1 User ID: 1177339 United States05/27/2013 03:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So true......but it is essential to clearly identify where satan's wrath ends......and where God's wrath begins. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170 As with Pharoah's magicians.......God's wrath cannot be duplicated by either satan or man........and is very clearly distinct and evident. Satan's wrath ended 5 February 2009 at High Noon 12:00 Now it's time for the sinners and righteous... Just as written... Y~A~H~U~W~A~H All Names Have A Meaning... Yahweh's Abbas House Unites When Abbas Home... I would truly learn this quickly and pass it on... The Word Me... My Existence ... Last Edited by CELT1 on 05/27/2013 03:35 PM CELT1 |
| Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539 United States05/27/2013 03:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's certainly one possibility, yes. But since the church is the Bride rather than a bridesmaid, I see that parable as referring to the Jews at the end of the Tribulation. Some accept the Messiah by faith and some don't. Quoting: Troubled Waters... Either way, there's no downside to waiting eagerly for our Groom. Our "preparation" as believers should always have been to be willing to suffer and die for our Lord, as Christians have had to do all these centuries. So even if we're wrong, we are as prepared as anyone else. But as you know, there is a crown of righteousness promised to "all who have longed for His appearing". Luv ya right back sis! God bless. You mean brother. Oops... sorry! Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
| Keep2theCode (OP) User ID: 20545539 United States05/27/2013 03:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Word of God says, "in the last days SCOFFERS will come, saying 'Where is this coming he promised'?" Heresy is not defined by whether you agree with a particular teaching. Have I called anti-pre-tribbers heretics, or have I only tried to say that I disagree with them? Why do you try to play the judge and jury? Who are you to base salvation not on the gospel but on eschatology? The fact is, pre-trib is not a heresy, not from some vision, and not recent. Every pre-tribber I know gets it straight from scripture. Stop the slander! Not one of us has said we won't suffer in this life. God will judge you. Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 05/27/2013 03:41 PM Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16) |
