Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!

You call that living?

I agree so very much!!! The funny thing is that these same people insist that everyone just wants a hand out and a crap ton of materialistic bullshit. Hell no, I just want to survive comfortably. I didn't think that was too much to ask for, living in America and all. I really didn't. I want to be able to work an honest days work for an honest wage. Be able to have a savings and not have to live paycheck to paycheck. It's nothing super elaborate. I just want a safe, reliable vehicle. 4 wheels and runs, ya know? I would hope for a place to live that is moderately priced. Sure I could live in the ghetto for real cheap, I guess. But if I'm working hard, and making an honest wage, I shouldn't have to. Leave that for the REAL government mooches. I would have EARNED my right to not live there.

Perhaps that does make me feel entitled. I grew up in the 90's. We had it pretty good. My parents worked (and still work) VERY hard. We had a small house in the suburbs, but I at least had my own bedroom. Didn't have much of a yard, but my dad still had a 6x3 area he grew some tomatoes, peppers, and beans in. I was told: Work hard, get good grades, and this life can be yours too. Money was tight at times. There were ups and downs. My dad was laid off twice while I was growing up. My mom even had to go back to work full time when I was in elementary school. I saw my parents work hard, manage their money, and reap the benefits. My mom was vo-ed and my dad had only a few years of college (money ran out). I was going to go to college and get that degree and be just as successful, if not more than my parents. Ha! Too bad that scenario doesn't even exist anymore.

I'm not going to do the work for you on poverty levels. Do a search.


Monthly take home of $2600
Rent of $600 leaves $2000 (based on apartment in Charlotte, NC)
Used Car (4yr of $6k) at $165 leaves $1835
Car Ins at $75 leaves $1760
Electric at $100 leaves $1660
Water at $40 leaves $1620
Groceries at $400 leaves $1220
Student Loan (10yr of $12k) at $140 leaves $1080
Cable/Internet/Phone at $100 leaves $980
Auto Gas at $100 leaves $880
Throw in a cell phone if you wish.

I guess I am missing where this person lives in poverty.
They have a roof, transportation and substantial food.

Okay, first, my apologies for my previous posts as I'm let my emotions get the better of me and got frustrated about a perceived lack of understanding on what was being communicated...

My school of thought and frame of thinking is psychological and sociological by nature... I'm not an economist who will tell you how to create jobs, or a lawmaker who will tell you how taxes need to be structured.... I am not a registered Republican nor a registered Democrat, I am equally distrusting of all politicians and do not align myself with any external group's belief system, but that's my own personal preference....

To make this as simple and as straightforward as possible, the answer to today's problems can only come from a spiritual awakening of the masses.... I am not a religious person and I don't care for religions, so I hope no one misconstrues this as having a religious context, because that's the furthest thing from the truth... I'm talking about a change in collective consciousness away from materialism, never-ending consumption, and that urge to accumulate and obtain as much wealth as possible. Society has become completely detached from natural human emotions and values, and completely detached from nature... In today's society, people place a greater importance on how large your salary is and how many cars you own, than how much love and kindness you perpetuate to others... Our values are in all the wrong places, and society is paying a price for it...

Speaking for myself, I feel I've had a spiritual awakening.... It didn't happen overnight, and I cannot tell you a specific moment in time when it happened.... But if you are a highly introspective individual who is capable of analyzing one's own thoughts, you can clearly identify how your consciousness and frame of mind has changed, and I can definitively tell you that mine has.... After it happens, it's just a realization that just hits you one day while you are thinking about your own thoughts and your frame of mind....

I don't care to make this post about me, but for purposes of illustrating what I'm talking about, I will use my own example for clarity... I have always worked, I attended college, and I've been employed steadily ever since, and never had to struggle to pay my bills, but I've also never lived lavishly either.... A few years ago I inherited a portion of an estate and it put me in a position where I had options... Options to go out and spend, to consume, to accumulate more materialistic possessions, options to upgrade my living conditions.... Years later I'm sitting here and haven't touched a penny of that money.... Why? Because I have no desire to pursue those endeavors anymore... My value system has changed... I don't see value in that way of thinking any more... I'm more concerned about values like honesty, generosity, and kindness to strangers... I come home from work and find myself thinking about a pleasant & courteous exchange I had with the old man who prepared my order at the deli in the Supermarket... That's what has become important to me...

On the opposite side of the spectrum is a sibling of mine, who is emailing me about the thousands dollars worth of upgrades he just had done to his car, and all these new toys he's purchasing.... He's telling me about that stuff all excited and I'm just shaking my head, because I'm thinking, what a fucking waste! What the hell is the point? Short term satisfaction of an insatiable need to buy things you don't need? Things that have no value? You can't take your personal possessions with you when you die and move onto the next existence.... My sibling is the perfect example of what's killing our society.... A never-ending and insatiable desire to accumulate possessions that hold no real value or significance....

If more individuals had an awakening as to what really holds value in this lifetime, society would be a better place...I just wish more people would come to learn that you do not need to be religious or even believe in religious values to embrace spirituality, nor to have a spiritual awakening... I can't sit here and say I found this path on my own, it was a series of unfortunate events led me to where I am today.

I got out of High School in 1981, interist rates were 22% (yes, 22 fucking percent for the prime rate)and we were in a deep recession. I went to College for a time and figured out I was wasting my time and money so I left and took a job at a factory starting out at $4.25 per hour (yes, four dollars and twenty five fucking cents per hour) and usually only worked 32 hrs a week because things were slow. I rented a shitbox of a mobile home with a guy I worked with and we barely had money for our food, rent, gas, weed and beer.

Instead of whining about how bad I had it, and how easy the previous generation got theirs I went to trade school while working full time and worked my ass pouring every spare dime into my own business. I now have my own machine shop where I do prototype work for other businesses and also sell my own line of products through the internet.

Cry me a fucking river about how easy we had it. In my eyes you are a bunch of whining worthless bums who will never work for me.

Can a person REALLY find a clean, decent, and safe rental today for $600 . . . in this area, that price would get you a filthy, rundown piece of crap in gang territory.

As I said in my response post for the earnings of minimum wage workers, here it's impossible to find something nice and safe for under $1000 per month.

On the issue of a car - that's assuming one can get credit, to have a monthly car payment. What about those who can't buy a car? They either have to pay cash outright or do without. And in most places in the country, if you don't have a car, you can't get a job.

Electric is a non-negotiable expense - and many people pay as much as $400 plus during peak summer and winter months.

You left out gas, for those who have either all gas or a combo of gas and electric.

The $400 for groceries - assuming that's just for food, what about household supplies, medications and personal items, etc.?

You left out clothing, car maintenance, home maintenance (if the payment is for mortgage instead of rent), and yes, a cell phone would also add to the costs.

Ever heard of the Boston Tea Party??


In that time this event was very bad taste. It was viewed the same as someone pooping on a car.

It wasn't planned for years with proper rules.

Here is a link in case you want to review a little history.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

British government
East India Company that had monopoly all the tea imported into the colonies.
December 16, 1773

Ring a bell?

I agree so very much!!! The funny thing is that these same people insist that everyone just wants a hand out and a crap ton of materialistic bullshit. Hell no, I just want to survive comfortably. I didn't think that was too much to ask for, living in America and all. I really didn't. I want to be able to work an honest days work for an honest wage. Be able to have a savings and not have to live paycheck to paycheck. It's nothing super elaborate. I just want a safe, reliable vehicle. 4 wheels and runs, ya know? I would hope for a place to live that is moderately priced. Sure I could live in the ghetto for real cheap, I guess. But if I'm working hard, and making an honest wage, I shouldn't have to. Leave that for the REAL government mooches. I would have EARNED my right to not live there.

Perhaps that does make me feel entitled. I grew up in the 90's. We had it pretty good. My parents worked (and still work) VERY hard. We had a small house in the suburbs, but I at least had my own bedroom. Didn't have much of a yard, but my dad still had a 6x3 area he grew some tomatoes, peppers, and beans in. I was told: Work hard, get good grades, and this life can be yours too. Money was tight at times. There were ups and downs. My dad was laid off twice while I was growing up. My mom even had to go back to work full time when I was in elementary school. I saw my parents work hard, manage their money, and reap the benefits. My mom was vo-ed and my dad had only a few years of college (money ran out). I was going to go to college and get that degree and be just as successful, if not more than my parents. Ha! Too bad that scenario doesn't even exist anymore.

I'd probably take on some room mates, or maybe find someone who is upside down in their house and wants to just walk away, move in and rent some rooms out - take over the payments. Rather than being a renter, I might become a landlord like that - let others make your payments for you.

Skep, I posted earlier that you're a voice of reason here, and you are . . . but honestly, I thought you were older. Unlike texgirl who I also thought was older, YOU are speaking wisely for someone your age.

I'm a boomer, and I hate what's happened to this country and the disgusting, arrogant attitudes of the people say that if you aren't wealthy or successful in business, etc. it's YOUR fault. This country is full of millions of people who dreamed the dream and have realized it's over . . . they work hard, they're honest, they just want to be comfortable (like you) and not have to worry, but they just can't get those "golden opportunities" or whatever. They've been cheated and mistreated, and then other (arrogant) people come along and demean them for it.

Can a person REALLY find a clean, decent, and safe rental today for $600 . . . in this area, that price would get you a filthy, rundown piece of crap in gang territory.

As I said in my response post for the earnings of minimum wage workers, here it's impossible to find something nice and safe for under $1000 per month.

On the issue of a car - that's assuming one can get credit, to have a monthly car payment. What about those who can't buy a car? They either have to pay cash outright or do without. And in most places in the country, if you don't have a car, you can't get a job.

Electric is a non-negotiable expense - and many people pay as much as $400 plus during peak summer and winter months.

You left out gas, for those who have either all gas or a combo of gas and electric.

The $400 for groceries - assuming that's just for food, what about household supplies, medications and personal items, etc.?

You left out clothing, car maintenance, home maintenance (if the payment is for mortgage instead of rent), and yes, a cell phone would also add to the costs.

Who the fuck only works 8 hours a day?

Okay, first, my apologies for my previous posts as I'm let my emotions get the better of me and got frustrated about a perceived lack of understanding on what was being communicated...

My school of thought and frame of thinking is psychological and sociological by nature... I'm not an economist who will tell you how to create jobs, or a lawmaker who will tell you how taxes need to be structured.... I am not a registered Republican nor a registered Democrat, I am equally distrusting of all politicians and do not align myself with any external group's belief system, but that's my own personal preference....

To make this as simple and as straightforward as possible, the answer to today's problems can only come from a spiritual awakening of the masses.... I am not a religious person and I don't care for religions, so I hope no one misconstrues this as having a religious context, because that's the furthest thing from the truth... I'm talking about a change in collective consciousness away from materialism, never-ending consumption, and that urge to accumulate and obtain as much wealth as possible. Society has become completely detached from natural human emotions and values, and completely detached from nature... In today's society, people place a greater importance on how large your salary is and how many cars you own, than how much love and kindness you perpetuate to others... Our values are in all the wrong places, and society is paying a price for it...

Speaking for myself, I feel I've had a spiritual awakening.... It didn't happen overnight, and I cannot tell you a specific moment in time when it happened.... But if you are a highly introspective individual who is capable of analyzing one's own thoughts, you can clearly identify how your consciousness and frame of mind has changed, and I can definitively tell you that mine has.... After it happens, it's just a realization that just hits you one day while you are thinking about your own thoughts and your frame of mind....

I don't care to make this post about me, but for purposes of illustrating what I'm talking about, I will use my own example for clarity... I have always worked, I attended college, and I've been employed steadily ever since, and never had to struggle to pay my bills, but I've also never lived lavishly either.... A few years ago I inherited a portion of an estate and it put me in a position where I had options... Options to go out and spend, to consume, to accumulate more materialistic possessions, options to upgrade my living conditions.... Years later I'm sitting here and haven't touched a penny of that money.... Why? Because I have no desire to pursue those endeavors anymore... My value system has changed... I don't see value in that way of thinking any more... I'm more concerned about values like honesty, generosity, and kindness to strangers... I come home from work and find myself thinking about a pleasant & courteous exchange I had with the elderly employee who prepared my order at the deli in the Supermarket... That's what has become important to me, those types of experiences... If I came into that inheritance 10 years ago, I might be sitting here telling you about the cool new car I'm going to get, and the cool gadgets and electronics I'm going to
purchase.... That is what I'm talking about in terms of an awakening, and a change in consciousness.... I am not sharing this information to flatter myself, but I am sharing this information in hopes that my experiences might open up those thoughts on this subject matter to others...

On the opposite side of the spectrum is a sibling of mine, who is still fixated on material wealth... He is emailing me about the thousands dollars worth of upgrades he just had done to his car, and all these new toys he's purchasing.... He's telling me about that stuff all excited and I'm just shaking my head, because I'm thinking, what a fucking waste! What the hell is the point? Short term satisfaction of an insatiable need to buy things you don't need? Things that have no value? You can't take your personal possessions with you when you die and move onto the next existence.... My sibling is the perfect example of the type of thinking that's killing our society.... A never-ending and insatiable desire to accumulate possessions that hold no real value or significance....

If more individuals had an awakening as to what really holds value in this lifetime, society would be a better place...I just wish more people would come to learn that you do not need to be religious or even believe in religious values to embrace spirituality or experience a spiritual awakening... How do we go about doing it? My only advise is through open and honest communication, and kindness.... I firmly believe that kindness can be contagious, and if individuals were more aware of their actions and made honest and sincere efforts to be kind and generous to others, I believe that sentiment will spread.... Right now society is out of balance and emotions of greed, jealousy, and selfishness, are running the show, and we can see where that is leading our society...

I can't sit here and say I found this path by my own doing, it was a series of unfortunate events led me to where I am today. Those unfortunate events were painful and difficult to cope with when they transpired, but I can honestly sit here today and attest that I've now found meaningful and sincere value in having gone through those experiences, no matter how negative they appeared to be on the surface.

Can a person REALLY find a clean, decent, and safe rental today for $600 . . . in this area, that price would get you a filthy, rundown piece of crap in gang territory.

As I said in my response post for the earnings of minimum wage workers, here it's impossible to find something nice and safe for under $1000 per month.

On the issue of a car - that's assuming one can get credit, to have a monthly car payment. What about those who can't buy a car? They either have to pay cash outright or do without. And in most places in the country, if you don't have a car, you can't get a job.

Electric is a non-negotiable expense - and many people pay as much as $400 plus during peak summer and winter months.

You left out gas, for those who have either all gas or a combo of gas and electric.

The $400 for groceries - assuming that's just for food, what about household supplies, medications and personal items, etc.?

You left out clothing, car maintenance, home maintenance (if the payment is for mortgage instead of rent), and yes, a cell phone would also add to the costs.

You have nothing to apologize for. We're all frustrated and you were expressing yours. Nothing wrong with that.

I so totally agree with you on the bolded. If only you had any idea how much I agree with you. I too, know people who can only be happy by acquiring objects. They don't own the objects, the objects own them, and when the person has acquired them, they no longer want them. They move on to something else. Endless consumption and fun. Ignore those who are suffering as long as they are out of sight. People will never learn that happiness isn't in having what you want, it's in wanting what you have.

If you made the post about you, I'm glad you did, because IMO you just posted some of the most important thoughts on this thread. Thank you.

You voted for 0bama and gave him BOTH Houses of Congress. So, forgive me if I'm not all ate up with sympathy for you.

You're whining like a bunch of little bitches about how you can't make it. I just showed you one way to not only make it but prosper. And now you're calling me names? LOL

This is one reason I'm not all overflowing with sympathy for the whiners.

I got out of High School in 1981, interist rates were 22% (yes, 22 fucking percent for the prime rate)and we were in a deep recession. I went to College for a time and figured out I was wasting my time and money so I left and took a job at a factory starting out at $4.25 per hour (yes, four dollars and twenty five fucking cents per hour) and usually only worked 32 hrs a week because things were slow. I rented a shitbox of a mobile home with a guy I worked with and we barely had money for our food, rent, gas, weed and beer.

Instead of whining about how bad I had it, and how easy the previous generation got theirs I went to trade school while working full time and worked my ass pouring every spare dime into my own business. I now have my own machine shop where I do prototype work for other businesses and also sell my own line of products through the internet.

Cry me a fucking river about how easy we had it. In my eyes you are a bunch of whining worthless bums who will never work for me.

Once again another post about how someone back in 1980 walked uphill to school everyday in the snow.

This is not 1980 stupid, so your logic won't work today.

You can not duplicate your success with todays economy period, but you sure can talk shit to people who are in hard times can't you.

You're whining like a bunch of little bitches about how you can't make it. I just showed you one way to not only make it but prosper. And now you're calling me names? LOL

This is one reason I'm not all overflowing with sympathy for the whiners.

Once again another post about how someone back in 1980 walked uphill to school everyday in the snow.

This is not 1980 stupid, so your logic won't work today.

You can not duplicate your success with todays economy period, but you sure can talk shit to people who are in hard times can't you.

Renting or Letting rooms was common-place during the depression....it was how people did what they had to do to survive. But it won't work now, because now it is a basic human right for people to live in their own single family unit with manicured yard, etc. etc.

ANHEDONIC:

You are wrong to apologize. Reason being: you have nothing to apologize for.

Stand by what you say/post. Stay strong on your convictions. Apologize ONLY when you are truly wrong or are PROVEN wrong.

Your posts have been on target, and you should stand firm.

Otherwise, your post is heartfelt and I agree - and understand - about the realization of what's really important.

I agree with your post . . . just not WHY you posted it.

Once again another post about how someone back in 1980 walked uphill to school everyday in the snow.

This is not 1980 stupid, so your logic won't work today.

You can not duplicate your success with todays economy period, but you sure can talk shit to people who are in hard times can't you.

I did not ask for NOR do I need your advice. My comments in this thread are not about my circumstances, thankfully, but I'm very aware of the gap between the haves and have nots . . . I NEVER EVER take anything for granted and I will not adopt that arrogant, self-serving attitude expressed by the likes of you and texasgirl.

I feel very sorry for people who have no compassion for the hardships of others . . . very sorry for your lack of soul, not a religous kind of soul, but the heart & SOUL that gives a person a caring and decent character.

YOU clearly have no comprehension of what that means.