Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?

You don't understand.

Pauline Christianity, in its entirety, collapses as a result of Chapter 27:52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew and 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

This was NOT an event in the real world.

So what do these passages refer to?

They are a figurative description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

Michael

I understand your bitterness with the pauline exaltation and it is a resentmant I express myself against those who uphold Pauls reengineered epistles to create this new christianity. In Pauls defense I must say his writngs are very hard for the average person to understand and has been compromised by the churches and given to the congregation as the rock of christian belief..They changed little words here and there.There were times paul was addressing a specific law but when they translated made it look like all of the law.Just like they did with the word jew in the bible.

Paul never contradicted what jesus established,its the twisted doctrines of the CATHOLIC Seminaries that engineered this scheme to carry on with lawless type of JESUS.This curriculum was passed on the the daughters of the harlot

Here is what peter wrote

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 01/15/2013 09:30 AM

NO YOU NEED TO READ THE WORD AND STUDY WITH PRAYER AND YOU WILL SEE THROUGH THE FOLLY THAT PAUL IS NOT GUILTY HERE. THE PENS OF THE GENTILES WHO TRANSLATED THESE EPISTLES TO START THEIR OWN CHRISTIANITY.

I read and I see the folly but you have to undrstand the word and research with your concordance.

Paul a False Apostle? - Hit the nail on the head.

Definitely Paul was full of shit and propagandist. His message is nothing like what Jesus was stating.

Paul was a tool of the Roman Empire and the reason the Christian religion is so often screwed up these days.

However if people took Paul more seriously we would be living more like Muslims today, with all women in veils, etc.

Ive read the bible many times, know what I'm talking about, and no I am not going to take the time to look up the references atm.

Excellent idea for a thread though. If I find time I'll go back and study it some.

yes. he was a complete phoney, and attention whore.

Saul persecuted christians for Rome up until the point that he (saw the light) realized that Christianity was growing too fast. Too many people were converting and he knew it was a loosing battle. If you cant beat em, Join em. And thats what he did. But as an agent of Rome. He was able to manipulate thier idea's and beliefs to "align" closer to Romes.

nah. Paul just figured he could make more money scamming
the christians than he could killing them.

"Thought experiments" are used in physics to demonstrate reality.

So, let me give you a "thought experiment" about the Satanic doctrine of "vicarious atonement":

Take any Christian you want who believes in the doctrine of "vicarious atonement", and place him or her on Calvary at the time of the crucifixion.

Any Christian would gleefully and single-handedly have to torture Jesus to death; because, if they didn't, there would be NO "vicarious atonement" for their sins and they would be sent to hell for eternity.

This is what is demanded by the doctrine of "vicarious atonement" itself: People so utterly terrified of going to hell that they would do ANYTHING--up to and including torturing JESUS to death--in order to escape such a fate.

Of course, it is all a psychotic delusion in the first place because Jesus was murdered not as any "vicarious atonement" for sins, but because he taught the "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

So all of these Christians who would torture Jesus to death so they would not go to hell would be doing that for NO reason at all.

I call that SATANISM.

Michael

The blood of millions of Jews--and 'heretics' like the Gnostics, the Albigensians and the Bogomiles--exterminated or tortured to death (during the Inquisition) by Christian anti-Semites over the past 1800 years scream that you are wrong.

But you cannot hear them.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 01/15/2013 10:47 AM

Unless one knows from whence Saul of Tarsus comes all is conjecture & speculation. Saul of Tarsus, -aka the eventual Saint Paul is a fellow descendant of the House of Benjamin & the namesake of the 1st (anointed) 'King of the Jews', -disgraced & brought everlasting dishonor & shame upon his (King Saul's) descendants, -including Saul of Tarsus himself. (King Saul fell from the grace of 'the (unseen)Lord' by failing to "lay waste Amalec", -he was replaced by David (of the tribe of Judah). Some years later, in a battle against the Philistines, the former King "fell upon his own sword" (committed suicide), -exacerbating his & his descendents dishonor & shame. In the meantime, young Saul of Tarsus, as a person, was actually a flunk-out Pharisaic student of Gamaliel & 'a temple thug' (persecuting 'Christians' long before there were even 'Christian'). Saul of Tarsus was a resentful, hateful Jew who believed that he was unfairly denied the opportunity to live the 'royal-life' that was taken away from him. He, Saul of Tarsus, hated, with a vengeance, the 'descendents of David'... Pray-tell, what do you honestly think Saul of Tarsus thought & felt when 'the descendent of David' rode into Jerusalem on an ass, -the crowd proclaiming 'him': "Hosanna to the Son of David"?

I tell you truly, it was Saul of Tarsus who plotted the arrest & capture of his life-long nemeses, -sought to it that he, 'the descendent of David', was flogged to within an inch of he life' & then nailed to a Cross... for a to see & take notice.

It was Saul of Tarsus & his cohorts: Mark & Luke, who wrote the 'Holy Gospels' (none on whom ever even knew 'Jesus Christ', -but, rather, invented 'him'.

(There's more...)

Congratulations! You just proved all your own points!

You reasoned that your reasoning, even defending the unGODly, is GODly.

Your simple belief, and simple it is, is that the Bible is GOD's word, and that an oppressor of women like Paul, is correct. Afterall men in the Bible put "GOD said" in front of things - so it must be true, he must have said it - men never lie!

Paul's writings, on women, haven't been distorted, you are distorting his greatness, by ignoring what Paul is alleged to have actually said.

Paul, through his writings, has oppressed 50% of the population (women), for nearly 2000 years.

Women are NOT allowed to teach, and should be silent referring only to their husbands. Why have you missed such obvious flaws in his teachings? Do you want women to be silent?

Show me where Jesus taught on women what Paul taught on that same topic!

JESUS said, Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Paul amazingly pretends that everything he quotes is a commandment from the Lord

1 Corinthians 14:37 "If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord".

How come Jesus didn't oppress women like Paul did?

If you truly believe what Paul wrote is "from GOD" and what he writes are "Commandments" why aren't you shaving women's uncovered heads in Church?

Why aren't you forcing women to be silent?

Why aren't you oppressing women?

Do you really love and follow GOD when you continually and knowingly break GOD's commandments on women delivered through Paul?

Do women in your Church cover their heads?

Do you see "the log" in your own eye?

Exactly. Paul is the father of the modern chuch and Christ is the head of the true church.

SO Paul is more important than Jesus?

No Paul = No Christianity?

What have you built this religion on?

WOW! you people sure just don't get it.

So that is why you can't let go of Paul.

You believe him to be more important than Jesus!

Whilst I appreciate your honesty, I think you have admitted to far more than you realise here with two tiny posts.

Ever hear of a "necessary evil"?

Paul completely perverted the Teaching of Jesus to the point that it resulted directly in the Holocaust 1900 years later.

But I have never denied that Paul's perversion of that Teaching was a necessary evil.

Without Paul, few would ever even have heard of Jesus. Any attempt to convey the Teaching of Jesus undistilled to the idolators of the Roman empire would have failed completely.

Some 2000 years later, understanding that the Doctrine of "resurrection" was taught by Jesus as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' still confronts the fundamental inclination of people towards idolatry.

They prefer to worship Jesus as 'God' rather than to understand his Teaching; out of fear that they will go to hell if they do not believe the teaching of Paul.

These Satanist Christians who simply cannot abide the Truth about the Teaching of Jesus are, fundamentally, NO different than the idolators to which the original followers of Jesus had to convey that Teaching.

But, now that there are hundreds of millions of followers of Paul, thinking that they are followers of Jesus, it should finally be known--in fulfillment of the Prophecy in Chapter 12, verse 9 of the Book of Daniel, that "these words will remain secret and sealed until the time of the End"--that Jesus taught a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; no matter how much the idolators detest that Truth.

Michael

I've personally used the term 'necessary evil" but I'm not sure if I would apply it to Paul.

Was Paul really necessary?

GOD could have sent another who didn't pervert the teachings. GOD is omniscient afterall.

Other than that I don't have a problem in what you have outlined.

People who claim to be Christian do tend to live in Paul-land a bit too much when Jesus' alleged teachings are there to be seen in the gospels.

Every time I use quotes from the Bible I get attacked. The inerrant word of GOD is only inerrant when it suits them...lol

I enjoyed your post Michael... Thank You!

Unfortunately, although appreciated, it is not particularly helpful that you 'enjoy' my writings.

Next on the agenda for those who believe the demonic doctrines of Paul--after exterminating millions of Jews, heretics, black peoples of Africa, Muslims, etc., etc.--is to exterminate human civilization itself.

And all indications are that they are going to succeed.

There can be only ONE survivor here.

Christianity must be DESTROYED, before it results in the near-annihilation of human civilization.

Not talking about killing anyone here.

Talking about destroying the doctrines of Satan with the wide publicizing of the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection"--in fulfillment of the Prophecy in Chapter 12, verse 9 of the Book of Daniel--which the "dragon" media and the "false prophet" monotheistic religious 'authorities' are PREVENTING.

What civilization needs here is not that you enjoy my writings but that you help in getting this information to the media officials and the religious 'authorities'.

Michael

Getting a bit out there in crazy land there Michael..

Doubt I can come with you for the ride on this one.

My enjoyment was very short lived.

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

34Womenf should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Again, you are so obsessed with what churches have done that you are letting MANS DOCTRINES interfere with what the Holy Spirit through Paul is STATING. I've even bolded it for you. The SPIRIT OF THE PROPHET is to be in subjection TO THE PROPHET.

This goes back to Adam and eve. Think about your MIND.

So, please, carry on debating the doctrine of men, for when we do that, we cannot learn through His Spirit .

Well you believe in the spirit through Paul... I choose to believe in the spirit of GOD. I don't need an intermediary but you obviously do.

I don't need Paul to corrupt it. Paul is just a man.

My mind is fine.. think about yours!

Your post makes no sense.. If you believe thart the Holy Spirit is telling people to oppress women through Paul... YOU are wrong.

I'm not obsessed with anything.

I do however, think that believers like you, diminish GOD's intellect down to your own.

Why do you believe your GOD is so unintelligent?

GOD doesn't oppress anyone!

And in her (the whore of Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all the slain upon the earth.

THAT IS WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, PER SCRIPTURE, FOR ALL THE BLOOD SHED ON THE EARTH.

Why don't you ask the Jews about their Babylonian Talmud, which as the pushers of the whore of Babylon religion through its Talmud and Kabalah, were directly responsible for those deaths? The whore of Babylon is infectious, all around the world in every religion and secular society.

You didn't hear one word that was written because of your presuppositions, so much so that you cannot even hear what the Holy Spirit is teaching.

The SPIRIT OF THE PROPHET is subject to THE PROPHET.
= WOMAN is to be subject to THE MAN

ADAM LISTENED TO EVE
= THE MAN listened to HIS OWN SPIRIT
= THE MAN listened to THE WOMAN

Adam's will prevailed.
Read Isaiah 14
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL

JESUS:
HIS WILL
HIS WILL
HIS WILL

Look at your words and tell me, did I say anything of what you just wrote? No. You categorically dismissed me like you did Paul's writing above BECAUSE OF WHAT'S ALREADY OCCUPYING YOUR MIND. Everything that you ASSUMED that I said, I DIDN'T SAY.
Every one of your assumptions is BLOCKING what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach you.

Then you are orders of magnitude stupider than I thought you were.

The Egyptian 'god of the dead' doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave is common to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And, because that Satanic doctrine substitutes for the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth', it opens the door to any number of other demonic doctrines...

All of which are at the theological foundations of the motivation for violence, bloodshed and genocide between and among Jews, Christians and Muslims.

People who have never really thought these things out are shocked when I tell them that the "time of trouble" and the horrors of Armageddon are going to arise over the Satanic perversion of this ONE Doctrine.

You won't believe the words that I say.

So you will have to see with your own eyes the horrors of the "time of trouble", a Vision of which I received in January, 1975.

It makes no difference to you that I have received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection" and that it is on the basis of those Revelations that I am making the statements I am making.

You don't care if someone else has received these Revelations.

You have your own ideas; and, just like the IDIOT theologians, you think your 'precious' ideas are equivalent to ANY Revelation.

It makes no difference to you that I have been doing this for almost 37 years.

It makes no difference to you that the name on my birth certificate is Michael, as is Prophesied in the 12th chapter of the Book of Daniel, but that I was not even aware of any Prophecy about a Michael until a year and a half after I had received the Vision of the "time of trouble".

The words that I write are drenched in blood from more lives than I can even count...

And they are put out on the Internet where they have to compete with "their name is legion" ideas of IDIOTS.

Kierkegaard referred to it as being "trampled to death by ducks".

Nietzsche referred to the "last man that hops on the earth...whose race is an ineradicable as the flea-beetle."

So, writing on the Internet is something like being trampled to death by flea-beetles.

Michael

So it is my fault that you make no sense.

I only have so much time in the day to debate fools. Paul's teaching on women are simply unGODly!

Is GOD omniscient? YES!

SO GOD knows all things past, present and future. He knows what you have done, are doing, and will do!

The GOD knew man would fail even before Satan tempted Adam and Eve.

You undermine a loving omniscient GOD and make GOD sound deceiptful & sly by believing this rubbish!

1 Timothy 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”

PAUL LIES TO JUSTIFY HIS OPPRESSION OF WOMEN!

I defend GOD against people who undermine GOD's greatness like you and other believers.

The Adam and Eve story is kindergarten stuff.

Try not to make GOD sound so unintelligent!

<span onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()"><span class="google-src-text" style="direction: ltr; text-align: left"> No. ¿Cómo podía incluso ser un "apóstol", cuando él no era uno de los primeros 12, o el sustituto de Judas?</span> </span>

Paul did not begin proselytizing until after Jesus' death. He never met him. We have only Paul's word for it that Jesus appeared to him on the road to Tarsus.

Michael,

I agree with you on most that you write. The religions have misused GOD's name and committed atrocities since time in memorium.

I know about the "Book of the Dead" and it's implications to the religions.

But when you typed this I wasn't interested in the harshness of how it sounds.



Even though you put this in "Not talking about killing anyone here." you start to sound a bit like MOSES here.

I hate the way MOSES undermines GOD's love by pretending that GOD ordered all the atrocities and oppression.

It is simply wrong!

I also beat my head against the internet wall trying to understand how people believe what they do about GOD. Just because it appears in a dusty old book they believe it to be true.

Even though I point out Paul's incredible misuse of Jesus to impose his own Pharisee teachings on women - believers just don't get it!

Please do not think I judge you on your revelations given to you by "The Son of Man". I am always suspect because so many claim to hear GOD/JESUS on here and yet they don't appear to know anything other than Bible Babble.

Also Jesus speaks about this very openly when he was on Earth.

LOOK! People in the following passages claim to have seen/heard GOD.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

AND

Genesis 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

AND

Exodus 6:2-3 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

AND

Exodus 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

AND

Numbers 12:6-8 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

AND Paul believed it,

Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,


YET THE BIBLE SAYS GOD SAID

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall NO MAN SEE ME, and live.

AND THE BIBLE SAYS JESUS SAID

John 1:18 NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

AND

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

AND

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

AND EVEN PAUL WROTE

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; WHOM NO MAN HATH SEEN, NOR CAN SEE: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Yet he also wrote the exact opposite

1 Corinthians 9:1 Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

AND

1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

SO whilst I keep an open mind on these things... I have to listen to what Jesus taught above the rest.

I would never dismiss your experiences as easily as others do here. I am listening.

My methodology is different to yours. I show them Chapter and Verse where they are mistaken. It's up to them whether they believe JESUS or not. They can't say they weren't told though.

Remember! When you are typing here... Some people will debate you... Others will read and dismiss you... Others will read and consider you ... Others will read and actually listen.

Of course there are also the others who will call you Satan or lead by Satan, which of course is laughable.

I'm quite happy to debate anyone when I have the time.

Perhaps that is why the Egyptians celebrated the dung beatle. All this dung people carry around with them believing it is fact is amazing!...

Where did everyone go?

I was enjoying the discussion and getting to quote Bible passages again.

See I actually read the Bible, with an analytical mind, hoping that what I was taught when I was younger is the truth.

GOD gave me this analytical and inquiring mind, so I use the gift.

But alas, I keep coming up against the same old hurdles.

The Bible is so seriously flawed that I just can't believe people have missed all the things, others and myself have shown in this thread.

Belief, Faith & Indoctrination seem to weaken a person's comprehension skills when I would have hoped it heightened them. I guess that is proof that "belief & faith" are the kindergarten levels of spirituality.

I have made this point on other threads.

Didn't some ancient tribes throw young women into volcanoes to appease the volcano GODs?

Did they have faith? Did they have belief it would work?

Were they correct? NO!

So faith and belief are pretty poor guides, aren't they?

With all the horrors carried out in the name of religion over the centuries, and some even proven by the Bible, how can anyone say it is GOD's word.

I'm continually amazed!

Faith and belief in Jesus Christ is granted by your Creator.
And in a world of lying signs and wonders that are directly for those who are not blessed to believe in Him without seeing, your words couldn't be farther from the truth.
You have been indoctrinated to only believe in things that you can experience. Guess who those lying signs and wonders are meant for?

Those that have faith because of seeing - the millions of tares crowding the apostate churches today - believe not because God granted them faith but believe because of the supposed miracles and visions through the receipt of the unholy spirit.

Jesus did tell us all - blessed are those who believe without seeing

May you come to understand that your "analytical mind" was indoctrinated into you so that you will do only one thing: believe the lying signs and wonders coming directly from the very men who indoctrinated you to solely rely on "evidence" -THEIRS.

Yahshua did not come to start a new religion. Paul did. Yahshua came to call the lost sheep of Israel back to God's covenant and His Torah. Paul himself admitted that the church in Ephesus (2 Timothy 1:15) abandoned him and this same church is commended by Yashua in the book of Revelation (Rev 2:2) as testing those who say they are apostles but are not. Paul even boasted about disobeying God by going to Jerusalem when he claimed the Lord had told him not to. Modern Christianity is Pauline Christianity and is not what Yashua preached. Yashua was a pharasaic rabbi that taught both written and oral torah as orthodox Jews do to this day. I choose to follow Yashua, not Paul.

[link to danielbarzohar.blogspot.com]

WOW! That sounds like Bible Babble galore. Do you believe the Bible to be GOD's word?

There is a difference between "seeing" and "comprehending". You my still be blessed without seeing so Jesus is right...

Why would you question my spirituality based on your meagre insights? Are you defending the Bible?

I am not indoctrinated in any way, I am free of it. Delightfully free!

I defend GOD against believers, who in their belief, in the Bible undermine the very essence of GOD.

I don't solely rely on evidence. With that statement you prove my point on your lack of comprehension skills. re=read some of my posts!

So tell me is the Bible GOD's word?