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Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20586262
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10/09/2012 02:43 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
each person has their own individual calling. each of us represents a part of the body. important part.

it is important to wait to be sure one knows thru and thru what their gifts are in the Spirit, and where God wants them to be.

i am 20 years into my walk. and i think i finally have some grasp on the direction that God wants me to go. i still don't have the whole picture. i have no problem waiting.

taking a leadership role is a huge responsibility.
i have avoided it for two decades.
i go into it with fear and trembling.

no doubt about that.
 Quoting: Salt


Everything is a responsibility with God. If a person is called, for intsance like to be a watchman, and they don't do it, blood will be on their hands. If you're not called and you do something incorrect, blood can be on your hand too. That's why it's so important to be 100% sure that you are doing it right.

Our works will either burn or stand. You want yours to stand don't you!

I guess I've just seen so many professional people lead people right back into the false churches. Back when I was in my church, there were a few who were struggling, none of us knew what to do. Then someone would go to a therapist, everytime that profesional person would tell the person, go back to your family, go back to the church. They would lead them back into the churches. And I thought to myself that I would fear God if I was someone like that. They will give an account to God someday for the advice they give.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


your posts sound authoritarian. according to you, that is sinful.
 Quoting: Salt


If you were sitting with me as I type, you would know that it is not by the spirit that I say what I say. Authoritarian, really! That's funny cause I can't even get anyone to listen to me!

I have a zeal for the truth, a zealouness to contend for the real truth. I have an overwhelming desire in my life to pull people out of the fire while there is yet time.

Just remember we are not physically with one another, so we can't read emotions into these posts.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 02:43 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
With God submission is very powerful. It's not a weak thing. I cast out a demon during my huband's deliverance when I did an act of submission to him.

Males are not to domineer either.

With God we are to humble ourselves and in due time He will exalt us.

God has a way of doing things. He has his order. And there is nothing wrong with order.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


The order we are given in the NT is that of a Body, rather than a chain or army or business. Submission is to be mutual, one to another, not only some to others. There is just no way to somehow keep authority over others in the name of order.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


please tell me you live in colorado.
we would be fast friends.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 02:46 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I sometimes feel like I can feel the jealousy that God has for His people.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 02:48 PM
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With God submission is very powerful. It's not a weak thing. I cast out a demon during my huband's deliverance when I did an act of submission to him.

Males are not to domineer either.

With God we are to humble ourselves and in due time He will exalt us.

God has a way of doing things. He has his order. And there is nothing wrong with order.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


The order we are given in the NT is that of a Body, rather than a chain or army or business. Submission is to be mutual, one to another, not only some to others. There is just no way to somehow keep authority over others in the name of order.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Doesn't the bible say to respect those who have authority over you?

You guys can't throw everything in the bible out, you know
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 02:50 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
For me it's not about authority or preeminence, perhaps the "bull in a china closet" you see in me is because I've run into so many women who say they are right, they will never back down from saying woman can preach ever. They make me that way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


Nobody "makes you that way". I've been known to smash a fair amount of china myself, but I don't blame others for it.

But that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking a position or "role" (a word not in the Bible!) of authority over another person or group, and clinging to it because of believing one has a divine right. It doesn't matter how or in what manner the clinging is done. You could be the most gentle soul but still "lord over" by saying "God made me the boss of you because I am a male".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3 LOL
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 02:51 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 02:55 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I Thess. 5:12

And we beeech you, brethern to know the which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you.
Keep2theCode

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10/09/2012 03:02 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
please tell me you live in colorado.
we would be fast friends.
 Quoting: Salt

Sorry... Ohio. But the times being what they are, we'll probably meet soon anyway!


Doesn't the bible say to respect those who have authority over you?

You guys can't throw everything in the bible out, you know
 Quoting: Salt

The chapter and verse you neglected to cite is in the last chapter of Hebrews, and in both instances the Greek word for "rule" is NOT there. The meaning is "to defer, to follow the example", and it is to "those who brought you the word; imitate their ways". You can thank the KJV for turning mentoring into kingly lording over.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3 LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14650717

Per Paul's own illustration in two other scriptures, the head/body metaphor is one of unity from the common belief at the time that the body grew out of the head. It did NOT mean "boss"; that is a much later meaning that no first century Greek would have included. And if you think Paul is giving a chain of command, then why the mixed up sequence? Now look at the end of that passage and you'll see Paul dismiss any such thoughts by saying "But now every man comes from woman, but all come from God".

This isn't a joke, mr. LOL.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/09/2012 03:03 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:03 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18706922


She went along with her husband on a missionary trip, I sure do hope women can go along with their husband's on missionary trips! That would be bad if they couldn't!
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:05 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?

please tell me you live in colorado.
we would be fast friends.
 Quoting: Salt

Sorry... Ohio. But the times being what they are, we'll probably meet soon anyway!

Doesn't the bible say to respect those who have authority over you?

You guys can't throw everything in the bible out, you know
 Quoting: Salt

The chapter and verse you neglected to cite is in the last chapter of Hebrews, and in both instances the Greek word for "rule" is NOT there. The meaning is "to defer, to follow the example", and it is to "those who brought you the word; imitate their ways". You can thank the KJV for turning mentoring into kingly lording over.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3 LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14650717

Per Paul's own illustration in two other scriptures, the head/body metaphor is one of unity from the common belief at the time that the body grew out of the head. It did NOT mean "boss"; that is a much later meaning that no first century Greek would have included. And if you think Paul is giving a chain of command, then why the mixed up sequence? Now look at the end of that passage and you'll see Paul dismiss any such thoughts by saying "But now every man comes from woman, but all come from God".

This isn't a joke, mr. LOL.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


I do like the King Jame bible. thank you! I didn't cite the verse because I was looking for it and that's not the bible verse I meant. I meant I Thess. 5:12.
ANHEDONIC

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10/09/2012 03:06 PM

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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
You could always give up religion and realize you are a human being, and not a slave to the rules of a collection of stories and the old men who interpret it for their personal gain.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15015575


ohyeah

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Keep2theCode

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10/09/2012 03:09 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I do like the King Jame bible. thank you! I didn't cite the verse because I was looking for it and that's not the bible verse I meant. I meant I Thess. 5:12.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


You might be interested to know that the word "stand before", proistemi, is the same word used for Phoebe who "stood before" other believers, including Paul. So IF this is a term of rule and authority, it applies also to women. If not, then again we have no "lording over".
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:14 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I do like the King Jame bible. thank you! I didn't cite the verse because I was looking for it and that's not the bible verse I meant. I meant I Thess. 5:12.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


You might be interested to know that the word "stand before", proistemi, is the same word used for Phoebe who "stood before" other believers, including Paul. So IF this is a term of rule and authority, it applies also to women. If not, then again we have no "lording over".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


You can't find one woman's name in the bible that was called a pastor or apostle, I know cause I went name by name throughout the Old and New Testament.

Like I said, find a verse and give it to me with a woman who was a pastor or apostle. You can't, cause there isn't one.

Jesus started out with 12 apostles, don't you think if He intended for women to be one He would of at least picked His own mother? Certainly she, being an eler and bearing Jesus would have qualified! If there is a change made in the way of doing things in the bible there's usually a long drawn out explanation of it in the bible. You don't find that about why the apostles were changed to women in the bible anywhere.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/09/2012 03:16 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I do like the King Jame bible. thank you! I didn't cite the verse because I was looking for it and that's not the bible verse I meant. I meant I Thess. 5:12.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


You might be interested to know that the word "stand before", proistemi, is the same word used for Phoebe who "stood before" other believers, including Paul. So IF this is a term of rule and authority, it applies also to women. If not, then again we have no "lording over".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


amen!
Keep2theCode

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10/09/2012 03:18 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
You can't find one woman's name in the bible that was called a pastor or apostle, I know cause I went name by name throughout the Old and New Testament.

Like I said, find a verse and give it to me with a woman who was a pastor or apostle. You can't, cause there isn't one.

Jesus started out with 12 apostles, don't you think if He intended for women to be one He would of at least picked His own mother? Certainly she, being an eler and bearing Jesus would have qualified! If there is a change made in the way of doing things in the bible there's usually a long drawn out explanation of it in the bible. You don't find that about why the apostles were changed to women in the bible anywhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


This has already been answered. Not only are there women called apostles and deacons, there is NOT ONE MAN called a pastor.

Jesus chose 12 Jews. Don't you think that if he intended Gentiles to be leaders he would have chosen at least one? And are you completely ignorant of the fact that this was still BEFORE THE CHURCH EVEN EXISTED, and that it matches up with the 12 patriarchs of Israel? Revelation shows that these two groups of 12 make up the foundations and gates of the New Jerusalem.

And if anybody's been trying to do gender benders, it's men who tried to turn Junia into Junian.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:19 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
[youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:20 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
For me it's not about authority or preeminence, perhaps the "bull in a china closet" you see in me is because I've run into so many women who say they are right, they will never back down from saying woman can preach ever. They make me that way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


Nobody "makes you that way". I've been known to smash a fair amount of china myself, but I don't blame others for it.

But that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking a position or "role" (a word not in the Bible!) of authority over another person or group, and clinging to it because of believing one has a divine right. It doesn't matter how or in what manner the clinging is done. You could be the most gentle soul but still "lord over" by saying "God made me the boss of you because I am a male".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3 LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14650717


It is in sinful women's nature to try and rule over men/lead men. Many of them willfully reject God's natural order.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Genesis 3:16

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead you cause you to err, and destroy the way of your paths. Isaiah 3:12
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:21 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Do your own research "salt", and I use the term loosely because you aren't a christian and aren't interested in converting. You're just looking for loopholes in God's Word.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:22 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
You can't find one woman's name in the bible that was called a pastor or apostle, I know cause I went name by name throughout the Old and New Testament.

Like I said, find a verse and give it to me with a woman who was a pastor or apostle. You can't, cause there isn't one.

Jesus started out with 12 apostles, don't you think if He intended for women to be one He would of at least picked His own mother? Certainly she, being an eler and bearing Jesus would have qualified! If there is a change made in the way of doing things in the bible there's usually a long drawn out explanation of it in the bible. You don't find that about why the apostles were changed to women in the bible anywhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


This has already been answered. Not only are there women called apostles and deacons, there is NOT ONE MAN called a pastor.

Jesus chose 12 Jews. Don't you think that if he intended Gentiles to be leaders he would have chosen at least one? And are you completely ignorant of the fact that this was still BEFORE THE CHURCH EVEN EXISTED, and that it matches up with the 12 patriarchs of Israel? Revelation shows that these two groups of 12 make up the foundations and gates of the New Jerusalem.

And if anybody's been trying to do gender benders, it's men who tried to turn Junia into Junian.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Actually one of the 12 was a Cannonite, don't you read your bible?
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:25 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I sometimes feel like I can feel the jealousy that God has for His people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


sorry on that, but jealousy is never of God that is a man belief system. God has love for ALL and the long delays of working on this world are proof. And there is quite a plan to get the proper education about God out there, because the connection to HIM is THRU YOUR MIND and not any other way. God is the creative consciousness of the entire creation, and you are a fragment of that. He i not separate from you. Only the beliefs of man cause the separation because the mind is so powerful and man doesn't understand it.
Life and Love

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10/09/2012 03:25 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Do your own research "salt", and I use the term loosely because you aren't a christian and aren't interested in converting. You're just looking for loopholes in God's Word.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8640456


Oh? Then it is incumbent on you to define "christian."

(I can't wait to read what you write)
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:26 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?

please tell me you live in colorado.
we would be fast friends.
 Quoting: Salt

Sorry... Ohio. But the times being what they are, we'll probably meet soon anyway!

Doesn't the bible say to respect those who have authority over you?

You guys can't throw everything in the bible out, you know
 Quoting: Salt

The chapter and verse you neglected to cite is in the last chapter of Hebrews, and in both instances the Greek word for "rule" is NOT there. The meaning is "to defer, to follow the example", and it is to "those who brought you the word; imitate their ways". You can thank the KJV for turning mentoring into kingly lording over.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3 LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14650717

Per Paul's own illustration in two other scriptures, the head/body metaphor is one of unity from the common belief at the time that the body grew out of the head. It did NOT mean "boss"; that is a much later meaning that no first century Greek would have included. And if you think Paul is giving a chain of command, then why the mixed up sequence? Now look at the end of that passage and you'll see Paul dismiss any such thoughts by saying "But now every man comes from woman, but all come from God".

This isn't a joke, mr. LOL.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


I am aware of that but that is not what Paul is talking about here. It is the natural order of God. Does it offend you? LOL
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:27 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I do like the King Jame bible. thank you! I didn't cite the verse because I was looking for it and that's not the bible verse I meant. I meant I Thess. 5:12.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


You might be interested to know that the word "stand before", proistemi, is the same word used for Phoebe who "stood before" other believers, including Paul. So IF this is a term of rule and authority, it applies also to women. If not, then again we have no "lording over".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Please provide evidence for all these unsubstantiated claims.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:27 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
No. But if your a Stinking Liberal Higher Critic, who believes the Bible is a bunch of myths and fables written by evil men.

Then, yes you can.
 Quoting: St. Ephraim the Syrian 25009740


what the fuck is this? The OT is mans story of those days, but that doesn't make them HOLY stories, nor are all of them correct, nor is all of the NT true and correct. Like Jesus never ever said that he would build his church on Peter and he never said there was Hell, because it does not exist.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:28 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
No. But if your a Stinking Liberal Higher Critic, who believes the Bible is a bunch of myths and fables written by evil men.

Then, yes you can.
 Quoting: St. Ephraim the Syrian 25009740


what the fuck is this? The OT is mans story of those days, but that doesn't make them HOLY stories, nor are all of them correct, nor is all of the NT true and correct. Like Jesus never ever said that he would build his church on Peter and he never said there was Hell, because it does not exist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


And he also has a team of 12 women apostles , lead by his consort Mary M. So you see when truth is purposely left OUT of the bible, it cannot therefore be wholly true.
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:31 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
Well, I've gone back and read the first page and, I'm sorry, there is a lot there that I disagree with. Not much is changed in my mind.

I disagree with you when you say woman can preach.

There's a lot I disagree with on your first page.

And I'm sorry but if this thread continues on in support of women preachers, it's not really the thread for me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


well i think you should go on. because women CAN preach, but it is the method and under authority that is important to realize.

you might learn a new thing here.
praise God.
 Quoting: Salt


I am a woman in THIS life, and I am ordained by Michael of Nebadon to preach. And I sure do here on GLP, huh Salt. hf

Sex doesn't have anything to do with it, it is man that has been and still is mistaken about the role of women.
Keep2theCode

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10/09/2012 03:31 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
It is in sinful women's nature to try and rule over men/lead men. Many of them willfully reject God's natural order.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Genesis 3:16

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead you cause you to err, and destroy the way of your paths. Isaiah 3:12
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14650717


You're ignoring everything we say and just repeating your assertions. That's not how a discussion works.

BTW, that verse from Isaiah has been proven to be a deliberate change of the very Word of God. It really reads "Tax collectors have ruled over you, and exactors have oppressed you". But since you ignore everything you don't like, I've wasted my time.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:31 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I sometimes feel like I can feel the jealousy that God has for His people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


sorry on that, but jealousy is never of God that is a man belief system. God has love for ALL and the long delays of working on this world are proof. And there is quite a plan to get the proper education about God out there, because the connection to HIM is THRU YOUR MIND and not any other way. God is the creative consciousness of the entire creation, and you are a fragment of that. He i not separate from you. Only the beliefs of man cause the separation because the mind is so powerful and man doesn't understand it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


God's Name is Jealous, that's one of His names ishhh!!!
Keep2theCode

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10/09/2012 03:32 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?
I do like the King Jame bible. thank you! I didn't cite the verse because I was looking for it and that's not the bible verse I meant. I meant I Thess. 5:12.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20586262


You might be interested to know that the word "stand before", proistemi, is the same word used for Phoebe who "stood before" other believers, including Paul. So IF this is a term of rule and authority, it applies also to women. If not, then again we have no "lording over".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Please provide evidence for all these unsubstantiated claims.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14650717


It's called Greek, do you read it? Go and look up the Greek text if you think my claims are unsubstantiated.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2012 03:33 PM
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Re: Are women allowed to preach and teach in the church? Or are we to be silent?

News