If Jesus Is God or Co-Equal to God Then Why...

Just as we think we finished the puzzle, then we are handed another piece. Every thing grows, we can never keep up with God.

I've read some fucked up shit from christians on this site...but you just won all the motherfucking internets!

your words are full of filth just as your heart is ugly filthy and disgusting

Mat_12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Well if that is all you see then "Why are you so blind"?

Thomas saw GOD through Jesus... NOT that Jesus was GOD... It is an exclamation... like Oh My GOD!

Be a trinitarian... Follow man's teachings... Be wrong... I don't care.

Obviously these absolutely precise teachings mean nothing to you.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Why do you ask things of GOD in Jesus' name if they are the same?

AMAZING!

You are stubbourn and wrong... well done! Jesus prayed to himself... Brilliant!

Well, I'm so sorry I offended you fine Sir! My humble and sincere apologies.
I did not mean to offend and I hope that you can find it in your infinite goodness to forgive me...

He called him "My Lord and My God", To say that Thomas was saying OMG is a an outright lie. All because you don't understand how the Son prays to the Father
Read more and pray about it

BTW the peace sign you keep throwing up is an upside down broken cross invented by the pagans who love to use it also to put their stamp on their points

That is an interesting passage, but how do you know you are taking it in context the way it was intended? What if the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are of one purpose - that is how they are one. They are not the same being, otherwise there would be no point in differentiating between them. They are three different entities with one purpose, yet their personages serve different purposes. That's just how I understand it :-)

1) Because God views all sin as ugly, Jesus accepted our sin and died for our sakes thus he was tainted in God's eye. When he died he finished the sacrifice (also finished the covenant with the Father of Israel) and was purified again.

2) Jesus is the SON of God, while Jesus has all the powers of his father he still isn't God. He points this out many times in the New Testament. I think when he said that phrase he wanted to reenforce that he wasn't God but a messenger and the ultimate sacrifice for mankind.

This is my take on it.

I wasnt offended, I was just letting you know the condition of your heart for your own sake.
I forgive you but more importantly so will Christ forgive you of all your most rotten sins and you can stand before the Father clean if you choose.
Wont you make this wonderful choice today?

I like this answer that I found. It makes sense to me...



Jesus was both God and man. He had two natures. He was divine and human at the same time. That is, there was the coming-together of two natures in one person. In Heb. 2:9 that Jesus was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . ." Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ." Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." Jesus was both God and man at the same time.

As a man, Jesus cooperated with the limitations of being a man. That is why we have verses like Luke 2:52 that says "Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." Therefore, at this point in his ministry he could say He did not know the day nor hour of His return. It is not a denial of His being God, but a confirmation of Him being man.

link..

[link to carm.org]

Last Edited by abeliever on 01/06/2013 09:25 AM

Jesus IS the Son of God (in John 1 the Word/logos).In His human form He was subordinate to The Father and admitted same. He had the very mind of the Father (Holy Spirit) and was in a human/physical body. He came to do His Father's will and reconcile all manking to the Father. Now that He has ascended He is the Son of God and the son of man and will rule and reign on the earth foe 1000 yrs. (millenial kingdom).When one reads John 1 they will see Christ IS God as will be all those who become sons and daughters of God.

Another way to think about it is that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are of one family, yet they are different parts of this holy family.

Throughout the entire content of inspired Scripture the fact of Christ’s identity is clearly taught. He is revealed as Jehovah God in human form (Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; Isaiah 7:14; John 1:14; 8:58; 17:5 [cf. Exodus 3:14]; Hebrews 1:3; Philippians 2:11; Colossians 2:9; and Revelation 1:8, 17–18; etc.). The deity of Jesus Christ is one of the cornerstones of Christianity, and as such has been attacked more vigorously throughout the ages than any other single doctrine of the Christian faith. Adhering to the old Arian heresy of the fourth century A.D., which Athanasius the great church Father refuted in his famous essay “On the Incarnation of the Word,” many individuals and all cults steadfastly deny the equality of Jesus Christ with God the Father, and, consequently, the Triune deity. However, the testimony of the Scriptures stands sure, and the above mentioned references alone put to silence forever this blasphemous heresy, which in the power of Satan himself deceives many with its “deceitful handling of the Word of God.”

Isaiah 9:6 in the Hebrew Bible is one of the most powerful verses in the Old Testament in proving the deity of Christ, for it incontestably declares that Jehovah himself planned to appear in human form. The verse clearly states that all government will rest upon the “child born” and the “son given” whose identity is revealed in the very terms used to describe His attributes. Isaiah, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, describes Christ as “Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”—all attributes of God alone. The term “mighty God” is in itself indicative of Jehovah since not only is He the only God (Isaiah 43:10–11), but the term “mighty” is applied to Him alone in relation to His deity.

John 8:58. “Jesus said unto them Before Abraham was [born], I am” (bracketed mine)
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In comparing this with the Septuagint translations of Exodus 3:14 and Isaiah 43:10–13, we find that the translation is identical. In Exodus 3:14, Jehovah, speaking to Moses, said “I AM,” which any intelligent scholar recognizes as synonymous with God. Jesus literally said to the Jews, “I AM Jehovah,”(YHWH) and it is clear that they understood Him to mean just that, for they attempted, as the next verse reveals, to stone Him.

Hebrew law on this point states five cases in which stoning was legal—and bear in mind that the Jews were legalists. Those cases were: (1) Familiar spirits, Leviticus 20:27; (2) Cursing (blasphemy), Leviticus 24:10–23; (3) False prophets who lead to idolatry, Deuteronomy 13:5–10; (4) Stubborn and rebellious adult son, Deuteronomy 21:18–21; and (5) Adultery and rape, Deuteronomy 22:21–24 and Leviticus 20:10. Now any honest biblical student must admit that the only legal ground the Jews had for stoning Christ (actually they had none at all) was the second violation—namely, blasphemy. Some claim the Jews were going to stone Him because He called them children of the devil (John 8:44). But if this were true, why did they not try to stone Him on other occasions (Matthew 23:33, etc.) when He called them sons of vipers? The answer is very simple. They could not stone Christ on that ground because they were bound by the law, which gives only five cases, and would have condemned them on their own grounds had they used “insult” as a basis for stoning. This is not all, however, for in John 10:33, the Jews again attempted to stone Christ and accused Him of making himself God (not a god). There is only one “I AM” in the Scriptures (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12; Revelation 1:8, 17–18), and Jesus laid claim to that identity for which the Jews, misinterpreting the law, set about to stone Him.

The Septuagint translation of Exodus 3:14 from the Hebrew utilizes as the equivalent of “I AM” (YHWH), and Jesus quoted the Septuagint to the Jews frequently, hence their known familiarity with it and their fury at His claim (John 8:59). Additional Old Testament references to Jehovah as “I AM” include Deuteronomy 32:39; Isaiah 43:10; Isaiah 48:12.

"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You love righteousness and hate wickedness, therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions. " (Psalm 45:6-7)

"But to the Son He says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.' And: 'You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.' " (Hebrews 1:8-10)

The Doctrine of the Trinity teaches that within the unity of the one Godhead there are three separate persons who are coequal in power, nature, and eternity. This doctrine is derived from the clear teaching of Scripture, and is not a man-made doctrine as some (such as the Jehovah's Witnesses) have claimed. Let us briefly examine some of the New Testament evidences for this important doctrine.

1. The Incarnation. The birth of the Lord Jesus Christ as described in the accounts in Matthew and Luke show that the doctrine of the Trinity was not a later invention of theologians. Luke records what an angel said to Mary: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35).
Since other passages of Scripture reveal that the term "Most High" refers to God the Father, we have in Luke a concrete instance of the Holy Spirit, the Father, and the Son all being mentioned together in the supernatural event of the Incarnation.

2. The Baptism of Our Lord. When Jesus Christ was baptized, the heavens opened and the Holy Spirit "descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: 'You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased'" (Luke 3:21-22). In these verses we see the Son being baptized, the Spirit descending upon Him, and the Father bearing testimony.

3. Discourses of Christ. In John 14--16 Christ speaks of the persons of the Trinity in His Upper Room Discourse. Jesus declared to the disciples, "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever -- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you" (John 14:16-17). Our Lord here prays to the Father for the Spirit, and His emphasis on tri-unity is quite apparent. In John 14:26 and 15:26 Christ uses the same formula, mentioning the three persons of the Deity and indicating their unity, not only of purpose and will but of basic nature.

4. Paul's Letters. The apostle Paul definitely taught the triune nature of God. He wrote: "May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Cor. 13:14). It would have been difficult for Paul to give this benediction if the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were not equal persons within the Godhead.

5. The Great Commission. In Matthew 28:18-20 the Lord Jesus commissions the disciples to go out and preach the gospel and to make disciples of all nations. He commands them also to baptize "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Taken with the other passages bearing on the subject, this becomes an extremely powerful argument for the Christian doctrine of the trinity.

6. Creation. Although the Bible does not explain to us how the three persons are the one God, it tells us most emphatically that the Spirit of God created the world (Gen. 1:2), the Father created the world (Heb. 1:2), and the Son created the world (Col. 1:16). If you check the creation references in the New Testament, you will see that these particular references are bolstered by several others teaching the same things.
The apostle Paul declared in Acts 17:24, "the God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands." This forces us to an irresistible conclusion. As creation has been attributed to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit singly and collectively, they are the one God. There cannot be three gods. The Scripture declares: "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other" (Isa. 45:22). Hence there is unity in trinity and trinity in unity.

7. The Resurrection of Christ. A final instance of Trinitarian emphasis is that of the resurrection of our Lord. In John 2 Christ declared to the Jews, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days" (v. 19). John hastens to tell us that Jesus was speaking of the resurrection of His earthly body (v. 21). Other Scriptures, however, state that Christ was raised by the agency of the Holy Spirit (e.g., Rom. 8:11). And Peter explicitly states that the Father raised the Son (Acts 3:26). So, again, God's Word affirms the triune nature of God. We may not fully understand the great truth of the Trinity. However, we can see the rays of light which emanate from God's Word and which teach us that, in a mysterious sense beyond the comprehension of man's finite mind, God is one in nature but three in person.

The Holy Spirit is the "force or power of God and Jesus/Word is administrator. It is NOT a third person or entity, that concept comes from Egypt and other pagan ideologies. Read John 1, there IS ONLY God and The Word/Logos. Also Luke 1 where Mary is told by Gabriel that "the power of God, the Holy Spirit will come upon you....." If The Holy Spirit where a 3rd person he/it would be the father of Jesus(divine half.

Revelation 1
New International Version (NIV)

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Revelation 22
New International Version (NIV)
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Last Edited by No Dhimmi on 01/06/2013 09:51 AM

The Holy Spirit is the "force or power of God and Jesus/Word is administrator. It is NOT a third person or entity, that concept comes from Egypt and other pagan ideologies. Read John 1, there IS ONLY God and The Word/Logos. Also Luke 1 where Mary is told by Gabriel that "the power of God, the Holy Spirit will come upon you....." If The Holy Spirit where a 3rd person he/it would be the father of Jesus(divine half.


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Sorry but you are mistaken. The Holy Spirit is the Helper that Jesus promised. He is the spirit of wisdom. God The Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. He is a person not a force. A force cannot feel. Jesus said do not contrite the Holy Spirit. Jesus calls him helper. He is saying that he feels and helps in your walk with God. Sadly your mistaken. From personal experience I can assure you The Spirit of Wisdom is a person and is in the God Head with the Father and the Son. They are one with different personality but yet one.

You are very quick to deny scripture for your anterior motives, i'm going to pray that the lord takes you out of your blasphemous stupor and shows you the way.


2 Timothy 3:36 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

1 Cor 2:12-14 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

2 peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

What is Jesus doing here? He's granting authority of the scriptures and showing that he's come to fulfil. To the smallest detail even.

You are grasping on to verses out of context to fulfill your agenda not to glorify god.

I ask of you, who wrote the bible? GOD DID, God is sovereign he's not a god of confusion. If god didn't want 1 john 5:7 to be in the bible for us to read, it wouldn't be in it. To state anything else is nonsensical.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 John 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Psalms 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

We should all pray that the father brings you to Jesus, i for sure will.

Blessings

Egypt?, Lol I thought it came from the Bible! Holy Spirit can speak.
Act_13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them

Can you lie to just a power or force of God?
Act_5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Can you really say the very Spirit of God is not God?

He called him "My Lord and My God", To say that Thomas was saying OMG is a an outright lie. All because you don't understand how the Son prays to the Father
Read more and pray about it

BTW the peace sign you keep throwing up is an upside down broken cross invented by the pagans who love to use it also to put their stamp on their points

In the same way that when we're born we become half our mother, and half our father, the same was also true with Christ. He was half his mother (human) and half his father (God). Jesus not only fulfilled the role as our passover as we could never atone for our own sin, but Jesus also defeated death/satan (which no man could do) and he also lived totally without sin (which no man could do) God sent Jesus in the flesh so that he was able to provide an example for us how we are to live (CHRIST-ians). And once we have given our life to Christ and are living for him, once we're baptized with the Holy Spirit, we are also able to resist temptation and sin.



I can't speak explicitly regarding the Trinity Doctrine, as I understand it originates from the papacy and is pagan in origin.
However the following scripture leads me to believe that there may be some truth to it:
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." -John 5:7



Most importantly however, there is no denying that Christ was God in the Flesh. Here are some scriptures.




"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." -Matthew 1:23 (KJV)

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." -1 Timothy 3:16

"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" Philippians 2:6

"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." -John 5:18

"I and my Father are one." -John 10:30

"And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." -John 20:26-28

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." -John 1:1,14

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" -John 14:9

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." -Isaiah 9:6

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." -Hebrews 1:8

Hope that helps.

Very well written!

Because at that time he was fully human and fully God. He submitted himself into God's hands. He was totally subject in this due to his having submitted. At ressurection He was fully knowledgable of the how and the when, the timing, as He now had completed this part of salvation.

If believers would only try to comprehend how horrible the things are that Jesus submitted himself to experiencing to save our miserable hides I would hope they might be more loving as that is basically all He has asked of us, to love God above all others and to love our brother(others) as we love ourselves, that is essentially it.

Very nicely put

I don't really think it was an exclamation... I have become bored with the topic. Sorry about that...lol

Two verses after Thomas said that the Bible refers to Jesus as the son of GOD again.

Thomas is a man and men get things wrong. Maybe Jesus was tired of correcting him, Who knows? Who cares!

I mean the sign as peace so please don't think I am using it in any pagan way.



Rising Son... that makes much more sense to me.

They think and act as one as they are totally in sync.

And succinctly put also... Well Done!

John 10:25–30
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,1 is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.



John 10:33

We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Who Cares? the great teacher tired of correcting Thomas him after His resurrection? That is seriously pathetic, unbelievable!

The Trinity is confusing doctrine with complex explanations that still don't add up God is not a God of confusion this is the first sign that the Trinity is a false doctrine.

The is this guy they Killed

HE WAS god

He died and becouse of this his father has for given us of all our sins

If we accepted the god who was killed as our Savior

then we are saved

ITS ALOT MORE STRAIGHT THAN THAT

[link to yhvhisgod.wordpress.com]